The TRADE Thread 2021

[City of Trees]

If McNair has opened up talks on Fox I would put my money on Fox getting moved.

[BoogieTime]

My money is on him not being moved, as his value IMO is best described is "moving him for the sake of moving him"

Despite his bad year, and the fact that he annoys me, I'm not sure the team is at that point

I'll apologize if he is moved for solid return, and I will hope that does occur (man, I hope so)

But I ask, once again, why are they going to the media with these intentions? Maybe they move Fox at any rate

[dozencousins]

My money is on him not being moved, as his value IMO is best described is "moving him for the sake of moving him"

Despite his bad year, and the fact that he annoys me, I'm not sure the team is at that point

I'll apologize if he is moved for solid return, and I will hope that does occur (man, I hope so)

But I ask, once again, why are they going to the media with these intentions? Maybe they move Fox at any rate

Gm's use the Media all the time . More often than not it can be used to pump the value up on said player , or overall deal , also used in smokescreens . This is what Morey it attempting to do out of Phily having Joel claim he is okay with the roster as it is , He uses his players to say the right stuff because if he states in public & in press the opposite it would harm Simmons trade offers , By him leaking to his local press as he did in Houston all the time & now he is doing so in Phily then information travels and he does this in hopes to boost that players value . Sad thing is a lot of newer reporters fall into this trap and when they report this b.s. it harms their credibility and career . Their are very few people whom are buying the smokescreenes coming from Morey right now .
Ben will get moved and Phily may get quit a bit for him but not as much as they had been asking for unless they are adding another key piece in a trade then that may change a bit .

[BoogieTime]

Also, the lesson with Fox is the best FO's/ownerships dont wait

They dont wait til a player spends half a season putting up negative advanced stats, 25% on threes, bad defense and lack of effort

You sense those qualities from the beginning, and move those players at peak value

Either Monte is late to the party or Vivek is meddling, or both, which means a paralysis of operation.

They've waited too long IMO, but I'm here to see their attempt at moving Fox for value

Hinkie wouldve sensed that motor and he wouldve been gone awhile back

[Negrodamus]

Also, the lesson with Fox is the best FO's/ownerships dont wait

They dont wait til a player spends half a season putting up negative advanced stats, 25% on threes, bad defense and lack of effort

You sense those qualities from the beginning, and move those players at peak value

Either Monte is late to the party or Vivek is meddling, or both, which means a paralysis of operation.

They've waited too long IMO, but I'm here to see their attempt at moving Fox for value

Hinkie wouldve sensed that motor and he wouldve been gone awhile back

I don't usually post on other team's boards, but I do want to just remind you that we drafted Jahlil Okafor, had a trade offer from the Celtics that included the Nets unprotected 1st pick, and we opted to keep him after a year of evaluation.

I like/liked Hinkie quite a bit, but that is certainly a ding against his record.

That said, you guys shouldn't trade Fox, but I'd gladly take him on the Sixers.

[rpa]

Also, the lesson with Fox is the best FO's/ownerships dont wait

They dont wait til a player spends half a season putting up negative advanced stats, 25% on threes, bad defense and lack of effort

You sense those qualities from the beginning, and move those players at peak value

Either Monte is late to the party or Vivek is meddling, or both, which means a paralysis of operation.

They've waited too long IMO, but I'm here to see their attempt at moving Fox for value

Hinkie wouldve sensed that motor and he wouldve been gone awhile back

Man, the Fox hate is truly strong with this one.


I think the one thing you really need to understand is no GM around is myopic enough to focus solely on a sample of 30 or 40 games to make a determination on what a player is/will be and ignore their entire career up to that point.

The past 3 years of Fox (and the past month+) paint a mostly different picture from your rhetoric.

[LightTheBeam]

Man, the Fox hate is truly strong with this one.

I think the one thing you really need to understand is no GM around is myopic enough to focus solely on a sample of 30 or 40 games to make a determination on what a player is/will be and ignore their entire career up to that point.

The past 3 years of Fox (and the past month+) paint a mostly different picture from your rhetoric.

Buckle up. Shams to be shutting down the rumors..

Read on Twitter

?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1483919401401393153%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.redditmedia.com%2Fmediaembed%2Fs81l05%3Fresponsive%3Dtrueis_nightmode%3Dfalse

This really makes the most sense to me anyways. I think if you build a deal for Simmons/Tobias it is mostly cap savings/picks as the incentive.

I've repeated I'm not a huge fan of grabbing those two at the 70+ million price tag but..

Sac out: Mitchell, Barnes, Buddy, Tristan, Marvin, 1st round pick, 2nds
Sac in: Simmons, Tobias

Philly out: Simmons, Tobias, 2nds
Philly in: Mitchell, Buddy, Barnes, Sac 1st round pick

OKC out: Nothing
OKC In: Bagley, Tristan, 2nds from Sac and Philly

For Sac this creates Fox - Hali - Simmons - Tobias - Holmes. **** spacing, but you are at least putting talent on the floor and improve your defense and fast break offense.

For Philly you save them 20+ million this year, get a young defensive pg, add a nice forward who can shoot, and Buddy.. Almost 30 million saved for next year with a clear path to Harden money.

OKC takes the chance on Bagley who has looked nice lately. Gets a few 2nds. Can possible flip Tristan to a 3rd team (LA for THT?).

[dozencousins]

Sam Amick
@sam_amick
·
5m
More from the Sacramento front: Source says the Kings have no interest in taking back forward Tobias Harris in a Ben Simmons deal with Philly. Sac still sees a pathway to Simmons - although the Fox update from
@ShamsCharania
seemingly makes it even harder

[LightTheBeam]

Sam Amick
@sam_amick
·
5m
More from the Sacramento front: Source says the Kings have no interest in taking back forward Tobias Harris in a Ben Simmons deal with Philly. Sac still sees a pathway to Simmons - although the Fox update from
@ShamsCharania
seemingly makes it even harder

Well with the latest Shams and Amick tweets.

Seems like the offer is at best Barnes + Mitchell + Tristan/Bagley + Picks for Simmons.

Doesn't help that Philly keeps saying they aren't interested in Collins or Fox.

[GutUNC]

Both sides need to get better at leaking stuff because both their public stances are preposterous.

[dozencousins]

Sam Amick
@sam_amick
·
5m
More from the Sacramento front: Source says the Kings have no interest in taking back forward Tobias Harris in a Ben Simmons deal with Philly. Sac still sees a pathway to Simmons - although the Fox update from
@ShamsCharania
seemingly makes it even harder

Well with the latest Shams and Amick tweets.

Seems like the offer is at best Barnes + Mitchell + Tristan/Bagley + Picks for Simmons.

Doesn't help that Philly keeps saying they aren't interested in Collins or Fox.[/quote

Simular to what I had been saying awhile back though I had never brought Davion into the mix . Though to clarify if it is picks instead of a pick it will not be as highly sought after multiple picks as one would think .

[rpa]

Seems like the offer is at best Barnes + Mitchell + Tristan/Bagley + Picks for Simmons.

Which is basically the same package that the Kings allegedly offered 4 months ago.

The leaks do make me think that Fox was at least brought up in conversations, though. If I had to guess I'd say a 3rd team trying to tank his value to get in on such a trade for cheap (Simmons to Sac, Fox to 3rd team, assets to Philly--but the Fox/Simmons gap means more of those assets come from Sac than from Fox).


All that said, this all plays into what I posted a couple weeks back on the Sixers board:

The Kings biggest problem is not fit. It's talent. The Kings have 2 guys who'd be 2nd/3rd best on a good team (Fox, Haliburton) occupying the best and 2nd best spots on the team. They don't have a guy who'd be 3rd best on the team, but Barnes or Holmes has to take on that role--then the other one has to take on 4th best when they're both more realistically closer to 4th/5th best on a good team. Then you can go on down the line with that. Point being: trading talent for talent isn't going to make the Kings better because in order to get better now they need to win any trade (substantially IMO) on talent (now). Thus why their offers almost certainly center around salary filler (Bagley, Thompson, maybe Buddy) and picks.

[LightTheBeam]

Both sides need to get better at leaking stuff because both their public stances are preposterous.

My guess. Sac has tried to get Simmons without including Fox initially.

Morey leaks to media. Philly says no thank you, and we don't even want Fox.

Monte goes to Shams and says hold on, Fox and Hali are our guys.

Seems interesting that so far we know ATL, Sac, Indiana all tried to get Simmons

ATL supposedly offering Collins/Reddish, Philly didn't like either
Indiana supposedly offered Brogdan/LeVert, Philly said no
Sac offering something, we don't know what that is yet.

Morey still holding tight for Beal or Lillard. We will see what happens if neither become available as reported by their teams.

[dozencousins]

Pompey today got used as a tool . Wow !

[LightTheBeam]

Seems like the offer is at best Barnes + Mitchell + Tristan/Bagley + Picks for Simmons.

Which is basically the same package that the Kings allegedly offered 4 months ago.

The leaks do make me think that Fox was at least brought up in conversations, though. If I had to guess I'd say a 3rd team trying to tank his value to get in on such a trade for cheap (Simmons to Sac, Fox to 3rd team, assets to Philly--but the Fox/Simmons gap means more of those assets come from Sac than from Fox).


All that said, this all plays into what I posted a couple weeks back on the Sixers board:

The Kings biggest problem is not fit. It's talent. The Kings have 2 guys who'd be 2nd/3rd best on a good team (Fox, Haliburton) occupying the best and 2nd best spots on the team. They don't have a guy who'd be 3rd best on the team, but Barnes or Holmes has to take on that role--then the other one has to take on 4th best when they're both more realistically closer to 4th/5th best on a good team. Then you can go on down the line with that. Point being: trading talent for talent isn't going to make the Kings better because in order to get better now they need to win any trade (substantially IMO) on talent (now). Thus why their offers almost certainly center around salary filler (Bagley, Thompson, maybe Buddy) and picks.

Could not agree more. I'm in group chats and have been on these boards saying the same things.

Fox isn't a 1st best player, neither is Simmons or Sabonis.

The team is missing that #1 guy, none of these trades accomplish that. You aren't adding talent, you are swapping talent for talent.

Mitchell, Buddy, Bagley, Barnes, Picks needs to be the offer.

[dozencousins]

Seems like the offer is at best Barnes + Mitchell + Tristan/Bagley + Picks for Simmons.

Which is basically the same package that the Kings allegedly offered 4 months ago.

The leaks do make me think that Fox was at least brought up in conversations, though. If I had to guess I'd say a 3rd team trying to tank his value to get in on such a trade for cheap (Simmons to Sac, Fox to 3rd team, assets to Philly--but the Fox/Simmons gap means more of those assets come from Sac than from Fox).


All that said, this all plays into what I posted a couple weeks back on the Sixers board:

The Kings biggest problem is not fit. It's talent. The Kings have 2 guys who'd be 2nd/3rd best on a good team (Fox, Haliburton) occupying the best and 2nd best spots on the team. They don't have a guy who'd be 3rd best on the team, but Barnes or Holmes has to take on that role--then the other one has to take on 4th best when they're both more realistically closer to 4th/5th best on a good team. Then you can go on down the line with that. Point being: trading talent for talent isn't going to make the Kings better because in order to get better now they need to win any trade (substantially IMO) on talent (now). Thus why their offers almost certainly center around salary filler (Bagley, Thompson, maybe Buddy) and picks.

Could not agree more. I'm in group chats and have been on these boards saying the same things.

Fox isn't a 1st best player, neither is Simmons or Sabonis.

The team is missing that #1 guy, none of these trades accomplish that. You aren't adding talent, you are swapping talent for talent.

Mitchell, Buddy, Bagley, Barnes, Picks needs to be the offer.

I posted on this thread not long ago . Anyways we could trade multiple draft picks but if we do it is not likely deals that include Fox or Haliburton and for sure not both . It could be deals with Buddy & Marvin , Tristan , maybe deal swith Buddy & Barnes etc. etc.but not Fox & Hali and especially not both .

Also if we traded for say Ben without Harris then I could see a 1st or 2 involved insaid deal depending on what more is involved .

All this said My source told me today we are talking in regards to John Collins as well .

[Silver Man]

Assuming we are trying to make a bigger move to make a playoff push the sooner it gets done the better because our schedule we have from tonight until the trade deadline.
Pistons (H)
Bucks (A)
Celtics (A)
Hawks (A)
76ers (A)
Knicks (A)
Nets (H)
Warriors (A)
Thunder (H)
Wolves (H)
Wolves (H)

[LightTheBeam]

Assuming we are trying to make a bigger move to make a playoff push the sooner it gets done the better because our schedule we have from tonight until the trade deadline.
Pistons (H)
Bucks (A)
Celtics (A)
Hawks (A)
76ers (A)
Knicks (A)
Nets (H)
Warriors (A)
Thunder (H)
Wolves (H)
Wolves (H)

Maybe Monte knows this team isn't nearly good enough to make the playoffs. He wants to move Barnes for picks (hence initial report)

Hes going to keep posturing hes trying to improve, no trade comes. They go 3-8 over the next 11. End up 21-36. Then Monte can finally start to tear down a bit and says look we are 15 games under .500?

Wishful thinking...

[rpa]

Assuming we are trying to make a bigger move to make a playoff push the sooner it gets done the better because our schedule we have from tonight until the trade deadline.
Pistons (H)
Bucks (A)
Celtics (A)
Hawks (A)
76ers (A)
Knicks (A)
Nets (H)
Warriors (A)
Thunder (H)
Wolves (H)
Wolves (H)

Maybe Monte knows this team isn't nearly good enough to make the playoffs. He wants to move Barnes for picks (hence initial report)

Hes going to keep posturing hes trying to improve, no trade comes. They go 3-8 over the next 11. End up 21-36. Then Monte can finally start to tear down a bit and says look we are 15 games under .500?

Wishful thinking...

Since we're talking wishful thinking, here's mine:

Monte knows this team sucks, but he knows the fans are Godawfully restless for a trade (How many Kings fans have said some version of "do something Monte! Anything!!!" recently?) and that Vivek is an idiot whose sole goal in life is the 10th seed. So his strategy:
Step 1: Leak like crazy that the Kings are "in talks about player X", "looking to acquire player X", etc.
Step 2: Don't make any trades early on.
Step 3: Watch the team get its ass handed to it in a touch stretch before the AllStar break
Step 4: Talk to Vivek and point to the team's record as an indication that it's not "one player away".
Step 5: Trade Barnes for a rebuilding package.
Step 6: After the trade deadline step up to the media session and say we had lots of feelers out there, talked to lots of teams about lots of players, but that the price was too high and we're looking for "sustained success". Tell fans that someone made an offer too good to pass up on Barnes.

Result: Kings (sort of) rebuild (at least for 1 season) and some fans are placated because he tried to do something, but didn't want to make any Vlade-esque moves.

Very wishful, I know.

[LightTheBeam]

Assuming we are trying to make a bigger move to make a playoff push the sooner it gets done the better because our schedule we have from tonight until the trade deadline.
Pistons (H)
Bucks (A)
Celtics (A)
Hawks (A)
76ers (A)
Knicks (A)
Nets (H)
Warriors (A)
Thunder (H)
Wolves (H)
Wolves (H)

Maybe Monte knows this team isn't nearly good enough to make the playoffs. He wants to move Barnes for picks (hence initial report)

Hes going to keep posturing hes trying to improve, no trade comes. They go 3-8 over the next 11. End up 21-36. Then Monte can finally start to tear down a bit and says look we are 15 games under .500?

Wishful thinking...

Since we're talking wishful thinking, here's mine:

Monte knows this team sucks, but he knows the fans are Godawfully restless for a trade (How many Kings fans have said some version of "do something Monte! Anything!!!" recently?) and that Vivek is an idiot whose sole goal in life is the 10th seed. So his strategy:
Step 1: Leak like crazy that the Kings are "in talks about player X", "looking to acquire player X", etc.
Step 2: Don't make any trades early on.
Step 3: Watch the team get its ass handed to it in a touch stretch before the AllStar break
Step 4: Talk to Vivek and point to the team's record as an indication that it's not "one player away".
Step 5: Trade Barnes for a rebuilding package.
Step 6: After the trade deadline step up to the media session and say we had lots of feelers out there, talked to lots of teams about lots of players, but that the price was too high and we're looking for "sustained success". Tell fans that someone made an offer too good to pass up on Barnes.

Result: Kings (sort of) rebuild (at least for 1 season) and some fans are placated because he tried to do something, but didn't want to make any Vlade-esque moves.

Very wishful, I know.

Hahha yup. You basically elaborated on my thoughts.

Barnes for Williams + DJJ
Buddy to New Orleans (Rumored to want shooting?) for Hart and Sato?
Tristan & Harkless to LA for Nunn + THT
Holmes to Charlotte for PJ + a pick?

Fox - Hali - Mitchell - Williams - Hart - THT - PJ

Build off of this? Probably all skewed to Sac favor :/