RealGM

What do you Kings fans think is fair value for the #5?

Some combination of Gomes/Sessions/Pekovic/#23 for Garcia/#5
Or if the Wolves trade Al Jefferson for Prince/#7 then Gomes or Sessions and #7 for #5
Perhaps Al Jefferson/#23 for Nocioni/Garcia/#5

Let me know what you think!

(I think the Wolves take Cousins at #4, just fyi)

nocioni garcia hawes and 5th pick for jefferson 23rd and gnomes

Many Kings fans were saying that

#5 Nocioni
for
Jefferson #23

was generally fair, but some aren't sold on Jefferson

personally, I think Sacramento would rather have Love than Jefferson.

But I'm not sure that Sacramento would seek any of the Minnesota big men with the 5th pick for the same reason Minnesota's looking or at least open to trading one of there big men, lack of defense. Sacramento needs a dependable guy that can rebound, play good D, and block some shots, and all of Minnesota's guy lack that reputation.

I'd say if Minnesota really wanted #5, Sacramento's first suggestion would probably be:

#5 & Noicioni
for
#16, Love & Hollins

but Sacramento could probably get negotiated down from #16 to #23.

I don't really like what Minny has to offer for the #5 pick outright. I think both #16 and #23 would be starting points, then perhaps a Nocioni for Gomes type of swap. But even then...I'd rather grab one of Cousins, Johnson or Monroe at #5 really.

DeMarcus Cousins.

Honestly, I would be happy with getting either cousins or Johnson - I am not sold on Monroe, but then again I am a firm believer of "in Petrie we trust" so I probably will not be disappointed if we go a different route.

Cousins - My fear is that he'll be a bust like the candy man or eddy curry - However if he meets his expectations I can see him being a dominant big man bullying the boards and dominating the offensive paint. I wouldn't be surprised if he became a presence on the defensive end as well - he has a lot of upside and kings have been great at getting the best out of the players they've drafted/brought in to the organization.

Johnson - I think that with his offensive fire power he'll be able to come in spread the court and complement the driving and play making ability of Evans - Johnson's defense is also very good - I know some will argue that he only played zone with the orange, but that was only his last year playing - he has proved he can be a good team/on ball defender (for his position).

But just my opinion - why trade our pick away? The way I see it is when there is 5 seconds on the clock, 4th qt down by 2 I want the ball in our star players hands in other words let Petrie do his thing, don't take the ball out of his hands - although I guess you could argue if you could the 16/23 pick and get rid of the expiring contract of A-N .. petrie will still have 2 first round picks to chose from and you know he'll get the best value out of them - I guess its all subjective.

Cousins > Jefferson

too many injuries have plagued Jefferson too much of a gamble. we need to draft at #5, not trade away for an injury prone guy who just pleaded to a dwi charge

Is the problem with the idea is that it needs a 3rd team?

Could we send #5 to Minnesota, have Minnesota send Jefferson or whatever to "team 3" and then have that team send the Kings what they really want/need?

If that the case, what would "team 3" be, and what is the reasonable target?

Jefferson > Cousins at this point but I'd just take the potential of a guy like Cousins over Jefferson at this point. Cousins has that little bit extra in terms of size that Jefferson doesn't while both are pretty inadequate mobility wise.

[RCG] wrote:What do you Kings fans think is fair value for the #5?

Some combination of Gomes/Sessions/Pekovic/#23 for Garcia/#5
Or if the Wolves trade Al Jefferson for Prince/#7 then Gomes or Sessions and #7 for #5
Perhaps Al Jefferson/#23 for Nocioni/Garcia/#5

Let me know what you think!

(I think the Wolves take Cousins at #4, just fyi)

Those trades are ridiculously bad. Gomes & Sessions do NOT have position value to the Kings; Pekovic has MUCH less value than Minnesota fans think; and the Kings actually like Garcia (he works well as a backup for the 1-3).

MIN poster -- I need some input from SAC on draft order and trade.

On the Trade Board, most posters from MIN, DET, and other teams think Jefferson for Prince + #7 is fair. Let's assume that avenue is open to the wolves, and let's also assume that at #4 MIN take Cousin, (or at least, Wall, Turner, Favors and Cousins are gone at #5).

1. What's the consensus SAC's draft order from #5 to #7? I'm thinking there isn't a huge difference to you, and you'd probably take Monroe at #5 (Casspi looks like a keeper), but you guys know this way better than me. If MIN had the #5, I think they'd definitely prefer Wesley Johnson, and I'd imagine GSW would go with Aminu. It seems to me that swapping the SAC could swap the #5 for the #7 - still draft the player they want - and get a little value from MIN (let's say the #23), who wants to slide the #7 in front of GSW.

[RCG] wrote: Or if the Wolves trade Al Jefferson for Prince/#7 then Gomes or Sessions and #7 for #5

The #23 is probably comparable to SAC than Gomes or Sessions, but you might like it a bit more.

2. I would disagree with the statement "too many injuries have plagued Jefferson." In six years, Jefferson has had two injuries (albeit major ones), but the following seasons he missed zero games from injury. Personally, I would prefer to hold onto Jefferson until at least the trade deadline, because his value will likely only go up as he gets over two years from the injury. I think people forget how extremely productive his PT/RB combination is .. in 2007-08, and 08-09, nobody in the NBA averaged both more points and more rebounds than Jefferson. Defense is a question, but MIN found that with even just an "adequate" defensive center behind him (Darko), that most of these problems were fine, and Jefferson more than made up for it on the offensive end of the ball.

3. Personally, I'd prefer MIN trade Kevin Love, though I'd guess twice as many MIN fans would prefer to trade Jefferson. However, Kevin Love has more trade value than Jefferson, primarily because of contract, age, and marketing opportunites. I do not think MIN would be interested in a Love for #5. I've underestimated the guy ever since he was at UCLA so I may be the wrong person to talk about him because of overcompensating. However, I think that if experts knew his college game would not only adapt to the NBA, but he would lead all NBA players in RB/MIN his first two years, he'd have been picked higher than #5. I also do not think that the players available at #5 or later in this draft are as strong as in 2008.

4. I'd agree with Bac2Basics post. If #7 + Prince (expiring - better player) is fair value for Jefferson, I'd also agree that #5 + Nocioni (2 years, worse player, but extra cap space) for Jefferson + #23 seems fair. If the DET deal is real, I think that SAC couldn't ask for much more without pushing MIN to just except the Pistons offer.

I'm personally not on the Monroe bandwagon. Good numbers and all but his lack of interest is, to me, the biggest red flag possible. Not only that but I just don't think his game will translate all that well to the NBA. In college he had a distinct size advantage (6'11, 240) that made his lack of quickness and athleticism pretty much meaningless. In the NBA he won't have such a size advantage over his competition and his weaknesses will be much more glaring.

Further, the second biggest knock on Monroe has been his lack of defense. The single most important thing the Kings need right now is defense. Getting another big man who's a poor defender does nothing for this team. If anything it makes them worse over the long run.


That said, I personally think the Kings should take Johnson. He's (IMO at least) the definitive BPA at #5 AND, better yet, he looks like a PERFECT fit next to Evans at the 3. The Kings can hope for Greene or Casspi to come around but the fact of the matter is that the Kings are hoping they come around to be a player like Johnson:
- Good defender
- Great shooter
- Doesn't need the ball to be effective
- Athletic
Why not take Johnson now (the perfect fit and BPA) and then move Casspi or Greene later if they don't work out? Or just keep them on as role players off the bench. Casspi's hustle, grit, & energy seem like perfect attributes you'd want coming off the bench.


So, in the end, I'd want a helluva lot to move down from 5 to 7. I said something roughly similar on your board but I think I feel the same way about that move as TWolves fans would feel about a move from 4 down to 5. To be blunt: Minnesota doesn't have much I'd be interested in. The Kings need size but what they really need is DEFENSE from that size. Jefferson is a poor defender as is Love. After that the TWolves have a bunch of throw-ins/sweeteners. As for picks: I'm not really too enthralled with any of the project/defensive bigs in the middle of this draft (e.g. Whiteside, Sanders, Orton, Alabi) so I wouldn't be interested in those as incentive to move down.

Ass far as Monroe and his "lack of interest", when I read that, what it reminded me of was what they talked about when Tim Duncan was being drafted, because it was alot of similar talk. I don't know enough about Monroe's game to say that he'll be the next Duncan, but his "red flags" are much smaller in my mind than Cousins.

And as far as Johnson, unless there's a clear plan to move at least two of the four guys Sacramento's already got that can play SF, I don't see how you can add another.

Bac2Basics wrote:Ass far as Monroe and his "lack of interest", when I read that, what it reminded me of was what they talked about when Tim Duncan was being drafted, because it was alot of similar talk. I don't know enough about Monroe's game to say that he'll be the next Duncan, but his "red flags" are much smaller in my mind than Cousins.

I disagree. Cousins red flags are that he cares too much and that he can be a bonehead. Considering he's all of 19 years old I'll take that over Monroe's indifference.

Also, I don't think Duncan was talked about as having a lack of interest in the game. The knock was that he wasn't overtly passionate about it.

Bac2Basics wrote:And as far as Johnson, unless there's a clear plan to move at least two of the four guys Sacramento's already got that can play SF, I don't see how you can add another.

Four? I assume you're talking about Garcia, Nocioni, Greene, & Casspi? Well:
#1: Nocioni should IN NO WAY factor into who we take. He's not a longterm player and, imo, he's a little bitch anyways. Hell, at this point he shouldn't be seeing more than 5 minutes of court time.
#2: Garcia can play the 3 but he can also backup the 1 & 2 as well.
#3: Greene can move to the 2 at times (we saw it last year) and can even play a little bit of 4 in the right lineups

Casspi's the only guy of those 4 who both deserves playing time and really can't play anything but the 3. I'm personally not as sold on Casspi as everyone else is. The way he plays (hustle, energy, grit), to me, tells me he's much more suited to be getting 20-25mpg off the bench than he is getting 30-35mpg as a starter.

The other problem, IMO, is that all the guys in the Kings range are far inferior (IMO) compared to Johnson as far as prospects go.

I heard a comparison to Wes Johnson recently that seemed very apt and got me a lot more excited about him--Danny Granger.

I'm saying right now though--pass on Aminu. His handles and athleticism are both overrated. He is ridiculously long for sure. But tweeners rarely succeed in this league. I mean if Geoff drafts him, I'll trust him, but I really am not a fan of him as a prospect.

mitchweber wrote:I heard a comparison to Wes Johnson recently that seemed very apt and got me a lot more excited about him--Danny Granger.

I'm saying right now though--pass on Aminu. His handles and athleticism are both overrated. He is ridiculously long for sure. But tweeners rarely succeed in this league. I mean if Geoff drafts him, I'll trust him, but I really am not a fan of him as a prospect.

Aolutely agree. Johnson has moved up into my 2nd favorite prospect relm, although I still worry about his age (23) and his defense. I still wonder WHY he became SO much more effective last year than his first years in college. Was it a faster pase? Is it something we do anyways, or wh=ould we have to shape the offense to fit him? Can he accept being Tyreke's 2nd boy?

I'm so over Aminu. He can only play the position we have the most of, and doesn't really give us anything we need. I'd SO much rather take Johnson or Cousins, or even Aldrich, which all benifits us in need AND are all, IMHO, far more set to contribute.

Lightning Strike wrote:

mitchweber wrote:I heard a comparison to Wes Johnson recently that seemed very apt and got me a lot more excited about him--Danny Granger.

I'm saying right now though--pass on Aminu. His handles and athleticism are both overrated. He is ridiculously long for sure. But tweeners rarely succeed in this league. I mean if Geoff drafts him, I'll trust him, but I really am not a fan of him as a prospect.

Aolutely agree. Johnson has moved up into my 2nd favorite prospect relm, although I still worry about his age (23) and his defense. I still wonder WHY he became SO much more effective last year than his first years in college. Was it a faster pase? Is it something we do anyways, or wh=ould we have to shape the offense to fit him? Can he accept being Tyreke's 2nd boy?

I'm so over Aminu. He can only play the position we have the most of, and doesn't really give us anything we need. I'd SO much rather take Johnson or Cousins, or even Aldrich, which all benifits us in need AND are all, IMHO, far more set to contribute.

Johnson can be an outstanding defender. I'm not worried at all about that. He's athletic, has a great wingspan and over all size, he seems intelligent and hard-working. He can be a great defender in this league.

I'd say he become more effective largely because of experience. He started playing basketball relatively late in life, and so he's naturally going to have a steeper learning curve, and will be a later bloomer. Also, part of it is the system, to a degree. But I'm not really worried about it. He seems like a primarily off-the-ball player who is unselfish and intelligent. When you pair that with his physical tools and his skills, you've got a great guy for your team.

^^I have no doubt that Johnson is going to be a very good player but I'm personally fully in the Omri Casspi camp. I think he's our starter of the future and I wouldn't want to put a mildly better player in front of him. I would rather take that pick and use it on Cole Aldrich who will be a difference maker. Some may think it too early to take him at 5 but I think he's gone at 7 to the pistons if we don't take him first. He's talented and a defensive beast. Lets take him if we don't look to trade.

If we do look to trade we need to get a vast upgrade at at least 1 position. And that position shouldn't be small forward. Greene has just as much upside as Wes Johnson and Casspi looks to me like a sure thing as a very solid all around player at SF. I just don't want to waste an asset by getting a mild upgrade to a position of strength.

If we take Wes, I don't know WHY in the world we couldn't play him as a SG/SF hybrid and start Casspi along side him.

Lightning Strike wrote:If we take Wes, I don't know WHY in the world we couldn't play him as a SG/SF hybrid and start Casspi along side him.

Because neither Casspi nor Johnson are solid ball handlers. That leaves Tyreke as the only above average ball handler on the floor for the Kings which is, simply put, a BAD idea.

longfellow44 wrote:Greene has just as much upside as Wes Johnson

Johnson NOW is pretty much what we hope that Greene becomes. The difference, of course, is that Johnson still has room to improve upon that even more.


BTW -- No way is Aldridge a difference maker.