RealGM

I came across this and thought this guy made some good points.
http://www.kings-nation.com/2012/03/do- ... ns-to.html

I tend to think Smarts hands are somewhat tied eventhough I wouldn't mind seeing Thornton as a 6th man, Tyreke a the 2 and Donte at sf. Dont think Smart thinks Donte is a sf though. Only plays him at pf.

What do you guys think? I mean, do you think Tyreke as a sf is a short term thing due to our unbalanced roster or do you think its longterm?

Absolutely not. Evans is a SG. On the other hand, he has absolutely no business playing point guard if the team wants to ever make the playoffs. The last two sentences apply equally to Thronton. No knock on either of them. That's just their game. Then consider two more points: (1) Evans and Thornton are the second and third best players on a team that is second-to-last in the West; and (2) The team has the worst SF lineup in the entire league. The worst. None of our SF's deserve to start, let alone get significant minutes on any team in the NBA. So I'd say what is happening is, by virtue of the current roster, Smart is playing a three-guard lineup because that is the best anyone can do with this team. And Evans happens to be the tallest of the three guards so he's stuck guarding SF's.

Moving Thornton to the bench right now so that Donte, Outlaw, Salmons, or Garcia could start would be disastrous. All four of those SF's are so bad that Thornton would end up getting thrown in with Evans and Thomas anyway just so we could actually put points on the board. Thornton is our leading scorer for those who forget. If he goes to the bench or otherwise sees a reduction in muntes so that one of our SF's can get time and Evans can play in his natural position, we're screwed. There's certainly costs and benefits in every lineup decision Smart has to make, but the cost of one of our SF's displacing Thronton at least doubles the benefit of Evans getting to play SG.

And for those who believe putting Evans at PG and moving Thomas back to the bench, I don't know what to tell you. You must like losing 75% of our games just so that Evans' stat line can look shiny.

SacKingsPejaFan wrote:And for those who believe putting Evans at PG and moving Thomas back to the bench, I don't know what to tell you. You must like losing 75% of our games just so that Evans' stat line can look shiny.

We're losing 75% of our games with Thomas at the point as well. Not sure your point there. Aren't winning more and are giving up even more points defensively because of the three guard lineup. We've beaten Wash and Utah with Thomas at point. With Tyreke we beat the Lakers, Por, Spurs, OKC and IND. Could easily make the argument we're not any better with Thomas starting. Instead we're just letting Thomas have the shiny stat line.

I disagree with you on Donte. Most stats show he's one of our top 5 defenders.

Reading the article, the opponents PER at SF seemed WAAAAY off (they have it at 40--which is absolutely ridiculous). I'm still not entirely sure how they got that number since no SF has went off on the Kings since, arguably, Prince did it in the first game with Evans at the 3.

It's from 82games.com.

http://www.82games.com/1112/11SAC3.HTM



Anyway, SACKINGSPEJAFAN's post is 100% correct. Credit the recent losses to Keith Smart's unbelievably bad rotations and substitution management.

I think he's a SG. That's why him and Marcus Thornton on the floor at the same time just doesn't make sense. Tyreke should be the starting SG with Thornton off the bench. One of the problems with this team is that they have three guys, Tyreke, Thornton, and Jimmer who are probably best used as SGs. One of them needs to go in my opinion if this roster is ever going to develop.

Honestly, the best fit would be bringing Tyreke off the bench, but that sure as hell ain't happening.

pillwenney wrote:Honestly, the best fit would be bringing Tyreke off the bench, but that sure as hell ain't happening.

Until he improves his shooting, I'm not sure there is a best fit for him. it's hard to properly utilize a SG who can't shoot.

pillwenney wrote:Honestly, the best fit would be bringing Tyreke off the bench, but that sure as hell ain't happening.

Honestly, that's one of the more ridiculous things I've read in years.

deadenddude wrote:I think he's a SG. That's why him and Marcus Thornton on the floor at the same time just doesn't make sense. Tyreke should be the starting SG with Thornton off the bench. One of the problems with this team is that they have three guys, Tyreke, Thornton, and Jimmer who are probably best used as SGs. One of them needs to go in my opinion if this roster is ever going to develop.

1. Jimmer is a point guard. Smart refuses to use him as a PG, but he also refuses to use Donte as an SF and is making Salmons play PG.

2. read SACKINGSPEJAFAN's post.

teerfour+40LG wrote:

deadenddude wrote:I think he's a SG. That's why him and Marcus Thornton on the floor at the same time just doesn't make sense. Tyreke should be the starting SG with Thornton off the bench. One of the problems with this team is that they have three guys, Tyreke, Thornton, and Jimmer who are probably best used as SGs. One of them needs to go in my opinion if this roster is ever going to develop.

1. Jimmer is a point guard. Smart refuses to use him as a PG, but he also refuses to use Donte as an SF and is making Salmons play PG.

2. read SACKINGSPEJAFAN's post.

I'd say Jimmer isn't an NBA PG until he improves his handle, a lot. Why do you think other teams pressure him and attack his dribble? It's the scouting report, he can't handle it yet.

I'd agree he has more PG instincts than many give him credit for, and down the road he might excel as an NBA point. But not until he puts a lot of work into his handle.

bestshowintown wrote:

pillwenney wrote:Honestly, the best fit would be bringing Tyreke off the bench, but that sure as hell ain't happening.

Honestly, that's one of the more ridiculous things I've read in years.

It's really not. I'm talking about fit. Tyreke doesn't really fit with anybody unless he's totally at the center of everything offensively. That's why he was so great his rookie year. That's when he's at his best.

Unfortunately, that's no recipe for team success--not in the NBA at least. NBA starters are too good and can too easily adjust to that. NBA benches? Not quite so much.

The starting 5 could use a real PG, should run things through Cuz more, and continue playing Thornton off the ball like they have.

I know we can't do it. When you have perceived future stars and faces of the franchise involved, too much ego comes into play. But if that weren't an issue, bringing Tyreke off the bench actually would make a lot of sense.

bestshowintown wrote:I came across this and thought this guy made some good points.
http://www.kings-nation.com/2012/03/do- ... ns-to.html

I tend to think Smarts hands are somewhat tied eventhough I wouldn't mind seeing Thornton as a 6th man, Tyreke a the 2 and Donte at sf. Dont think Smart thinks Donte is a sf though. Only plays him at pf.

What do you guys think? I mean, do you think Tyreke as a sf is a short term thing due to our unbalanced roster or do you think its longterm?

He's not. Smart is being "smart", Donte has always looked best as a combo F, where he gets a chance to be a stretch 4. He doesn't shoot well enough to be a true SF. He's gone back to some of what he did at Syracuse this year, where he gets the ball up top and makes a play happen off the dribble, usually at the 4 spot. That's the player he is.

teerfour+40LG wrote:

deadenddude wrote:I think he's a SG. That's why him and Marcus Thornton on the floor at the same time just doesn't make sense. Tyreke should be the starting SG with Thornton off the bench. One of the problems with this team is that they have three guys, Tyreke, Thornton, and Jimmer who are probably best used as SGs. One of them needs to go in my opinion if this roster is ever going to develop.

1. Jimmer is a point guard. Smart refuses to use him as a PG, but he also refuses to use Donte as an SF and is making Salmons play PG.

2. read SACKINGSPEJAFAN's post.

Jimmer is a scoring PG with definite PG abilities but he would be best used on this team as a spot shooter and coming off of cuts. Donte is not a SF, never has been, they tried, never will be. Not a true SF at least. Swing type between the 3 and 4. Salmons looks much better as a PG and it's no coincidence since coming off the bench, and having the ball placed in his hands a little more, he has looked much better. With this team he looks to possibly have a real role off the bench.

I"m starting to think there might be some showcasing going on with quite a few players from our bench. Why else would they play almost half the game?

He is strong enough to play SF, however we lose the height advantage most nights. Jason Richardson has gotten away with playing SF. Tyreke can do only if he develops that jump shot.

Tyreke Evans at SF (14 starts :: 33 minutes):

16.8 ppg
5.2 rpg
4.2 apg
0.7 spg
0.8 bpg

45.9% FG
83.3% FT

Not bad, not bad.

Probably not ideally but I think he's more of a SF than he is a PG. Ideally he would be a Dwane Wade type SG but he needs to become a better shooter first.

By default? Yes. He's clearly no PG. And by sheer definition, a SHOOTING guard is supposed to be able to shoot. At this point in time, that is not a strong point of Tyreke's game, so with all other options eliminated, his "position" for now is SF.

Thornton has shown flashes of greatness here and there (like that 36 the other night) and I see no reason why a guy with his shooting ability should NOT be the starting SHOOTING guard on this current squad. Who on this team is a better shooter? If Thornton comes off the bench, were have ZERO perimeter threat which means teams have no reason NOT to sag in the paint waiting to swarm Cuz and Tyreke.

21 games since shifting to SF:

16.85 PPG
5.04 RPG
4.28 APG
1.23 SPG
0.57 BPG

49.02% FG
79.03% FT
52.79% TS%
24.31 USG%

Lets break it down a bit.

- Evans is essentially averaging 17-5-4-1-.5 since shifting to the SF position. The only players with a 17+/5+/4+/1+/.5+ statline this season is LeBron, Kobe, Wade, & Pierce. To be fair, there are a few players that barely missed this statline i.e. Josh Smith: 3.9 apg, Kyle Lowry: 15.9 ppg/.3 bpg, etc. But nonetheless, an exclusive club to be in.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... rder_by=ws

- He is out rebounding every guard (and guard-forward) in the NBA with the exception of Lowry, Kobe, George, Leonard, Turner, & Iggy. Evans is at par with Wade & Gordon (although, he only played 2 games this season), who also is averaging ~5 rpg. Rondo & Gee missed the mark, they both are averaging 4.9 rpg respectively.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... =trb_per_g

- Evans' 49.02% FG is the highest out of all guards in the NBA with the exception of Nash, Wade, & Harden (substitute). Curry & Paul are hovering ~49% with Evans. NOTE: players who played at least 25 games this season.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... _by=fg_pct

- There's 47 players in the NBA that has a higher usage rate than Evans. There's 22 guards in the NBA that has a higher usage rate than Evans. If you are unfamiliar with usage rate, it's essentially "the percentage of offensive possession used by a player during his time on the floor."

For guards only:

http://www.hoopdata.com/advancedstats.a ... 20&mins=20

- Evans TS% is in the middle of the pack for guards. Evans' TS% is in the upper half for guard-forwards.

*Don't have the link but I'm pretty sure it's correct.

- He has been playing off the ball a lot more when he shifted to the SF position. He's been relatively successful doing it. I don't have the exact stat with me (for the SF position) but he's averaging 1.28 PPP (points per possession) on cuts alone overall for the year. That is his best offensive, efficient option so far. 1.28 PPP is pretty damn good. Skimming through the others (guards, guard-forwards), Evans is in the upper echelon tier in cutting to the basket so far.

- Last time I check, he is getting to the rim and converting at an elite level. No surprises there.

Obviously, in the last 21 games, Evans has been on an increasing (positive) pace in production & efficiency. Moving him off the ball (PG to SF) did wonders for him. He has been efficient and productive so far. I think he is trying to turn the corner into being a "winning" player for us. We know that him as an "isolation/pounding the rock" player is not what we need right now. If he can keep this up and improve his J, he has all the makings of a dominant player.

Right now, he is good for lay ups, transition play, off the ball (cutting to the basket), defense, rebounding, ability to create for others, ball handling, & the ability to score in bunches. He doesn't have a mid range game nor a 3PT game either. We need Evans to be competent on those areas for this team to be successful. Once Evans get those areas to a respectable level, we can start challenging a PO spot in the future imo.