RealGM

"The trend right now suggests the game is coming back to a time where the floor is open, teams have stretch fours (power forwards who can shoot), and point guards who can make plays for themselves and their teammates. When you look at the Spurs, how many times do you see a guy dribble, then pass? They just pass. They also get into their offense so fast, it allows for more time to move the ball to the open player."

Read more: http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/22 ... z1weaXT6At

Do you guys think it's possible with the talent we have to be a team like the Spurs in the future? Of course there's many variables and roster changes that may occur, but with the players we have now do you guys believe it's possible?

Cousins- Duncan
Thomas - Tony Parker?
Barnes/Reke? - Leonard
Salmons - Stephen Jackson
Thornton - Manu
Thompson - Blair
Jimmer- Neal

Obviously the Spurs players are far superior, so not comparing them on a talent level, but what I didn't realize is many of the Kings playing styles are similar to that of the Spurs.

I just hope Keith Smart knows what he's doing. Hearing that he's trying to create an offense like the Spurs run makes me glad that we signed him for another year. Can't wait to see what the offense looks like with a full offseason to get everything together.

We need to get rid of Salmons and re up Donte'. A lot of us are pretty down on Donte' for obvious reasons, but maybe just maybe he figure things out next season. If he can develop that Odom/Kukoc -- Doug Christie/Kerry Kittles type role for us he'd definitely have a spot on the roster.

But the mold Smart is aiming for is about correct. The only problem is with our roster, we have no real solid "impactful" veteran on our team who is apart of the rotation and makes meaningful contributions. That's what missing with our team!

oh please. I'm sure that's the hope... duh

No we don't have that kind of talent. They have
great passers at nearly every position anyway. Not to mention
SMART players. We have one of the dumbest teams I've ever seen,
Young or not.

And Donte green? Please stop trying to make him
happen. We need to accept the fact that this guy just
isn't very good.

This team does not have the talent or the proper mindset to have an offense like that..

If Smart wants a Spurs-type offense, that transition is absolutely not coming from within. Where are the stretch bigs? Where are the shooters, period, outside of Thornton and Jimmer? Where are the intelligent passers? Where is the unselfishness? The experience? I laughed when I read that Smart helped the Kings dribble less. Tyreke still dribbles the ball into the ground for 16 seconds of the shot clock just about every time he touches the ball. The rest of the time he's taking his 20% accurate jumper. We got a dominant big in Cousins and two shooters. That's it. Nobody on the team has a skill set that resembles or has the potential to resemble the all-around skill sets of Parker or Ginobili, who are the motor of that team. No. We're several trades away from even mentioning our name in the same sentence as the Spurs.

SacKingsPejaFan wrote:If Smart wants a Spurs-type offense, that transition is absolutely not coming from within. Where are the stretch bigs? Where are the shooters, period, outside of Thornton and Jimmer? Where are the intelligent passers? Where is the unselfishness? The experience? I laughed when I read that Smart helped the Kings dribble less. Tyreke still dribbles the ball into the ground for 16 seconds of the shot clock just about every time he touches the ball. The rest of the time he's taking his 20% accurate jumper. We got a dominant big in Cousins and two shooters. That's it. Nobody on the team has a skill set that resembles or has the potential to resemble the all-around skill sets of Parker or Ginobili, who are the motor of that team. No. We're several trades away from even mentioning our name in the same sentence as the Spurs.

Obviously the Spurs' offense is ideal but if everyone could do it, most teams would. Playing that way requires intelligence, unselfishness, discipline and trust -- so I'm not holding my breath.

But in Smart's defense he did have the team moving the ball beautifully in spurts. Why can't they do it consistently? When things start going wrong, players lose trust in one another which leads to selfishness which all falls back to lack of discipline.

Look at the Spurs, they are never shaken. They stay the course not matter how the game is going. They stick to the game-plan (minus adjustments). Granted, they have Pop.

Why is smart returning anyways?

I can see it with some of the stuff they run, but this team will NEVER be the pick and roll team that they are. The less reliant this team becomes on the pick and roll the better. Sure, you want to run it sometimes but if Smart continues to start every play with 2-3 failed pick and rolls you're going to have a hard time scoring efficiently.

Nicky Nix Nook wrote:

SacKingsPejaFan wrote:If Smart wants a Spurs-type offense, that transition is absolutely not coming from within. Where are the stretch bigs? Where are the shooters, period, outside of Thornton and Jimmer? Where are the intelligent passers? Where is the unselfishness? The experience? I laughed when I read that Smart helped the Kings dribble less. Tyreke still dribbles the ball into the ground for 16 seconds of the shot clock just about every time he touches the ball. The rest of the time he's taking his 20% accurate jumper. We got a dominant big in Cousins and two shooters. That's it. Nobody on the team has a skill set that resembles or has the potential to resemble the all-around skill sets of Parker or Ginobili, who are the motor of that team. No. We're several trades away from even mentioning our name in the same sentence as the Spurs.

Obviously the Spurs' offense is ideal but if everyone could do it, most teams would. Playing that way requires intelligence, unselfishness, discipline and trust -- so I'm not holding my breath.

But in Smart's defense he did have the team moving the ball beautifully in spurts. Why can't they do it consistently? When things start going wrong, players lose trust in one another which leads to selfishness which all falls back to lack of discipline.

Look at the Spurs, they are never shaken. They stay the course not matter how the game is going. They stick to the game-plan (minus adjustments). Granted, they have Pop.

This is the key much more than talent. The mistake people make though is thinking that because this isn't an issue of talent, that it's somehow easy to develop and maintain. It's not. You need somebody that changes the culture.

Part of our problem is that there's a risk with any coach like that for our guys--Cuz specifically. A Jerry Sloan could make a huge difference for us, or he could make Cuz go off the deep end. That's part of the issue with drafting a guy like Cuz.

Smart's great at making all the guys like him, and that's nice, but I don't think he brings the discipline that this team really needs.

Nicky Nix Nook wrote:

SacKingsPejaFan wrote:If Smart wants a Spurs-type offense, that transition is absolutely not coming from within. Where are the stretch bigs? Where are the shooters, period, outside of Thornton and Jimmer? Where are the intelligent passers? Where is the unselfishness? The experience? I laughed when I read that Smart helped the Kings dribble less. Tyreke still dribbles the ball into the ground for 16 seconds of the shot clock just about every time he touches the ball. The rest of the time he's taking his 20% accurate jumper. We got a dominant big in Cousins and two shooters. That's it. Nobody on the team has a skill set that resembles or has the potential to resemble the all-around skill sets of Parker or Ginobili, who are the motor of that team. No. We're several trades away from even mentioning our name in the same sentence as the Spurs.

Obviously the Spurs' offense is ideal but if everyone could do it, most teams would. Playing that way requires intelligence, unselfishness, discipline and trust -- so I'm not holding my breath.

But in Smart's defense he did have the team moving the ball beautifully in spurts. Why can't they do it consistently? When things start going wrong, players lose trust in one another which leads to selfishness which all falls back to lack of discipline.

Look at the Spurs, they are never shaken. They stay the course not matter how the game is going. They stick to the game-plan (minus adjustments). Granted, they have Pop.

There was a stretch where statistically this team was at the top of the league in apg. Not coincidentally that was also a stretch where this team ran a lot more high post offense, during that span Hayes was up around 4+ apg per 36. Then as the season wound down Smart either lost his brain, or was trying things out because this team went almost exclusively to the pick and roll. Even had Hayes in that set which is the stuff nightmares are made of, Hayes as your finisher? Wow coach. It was all play calls, all of it.

SacKingZZZ wrote:

Nicky Nix Nook wrote:

SacKingsPejaFan wrote:If Smart wants a Spurs-type offense, that transition is absolutely not coming from within. Where are the stretch bigs? Where are the shooters, period, outside of Thornton and Jimmer? Where are the intelligent passers? Where is the unselfishness? The experience? I laughed when I read that Smart helped the Kings dribble less. Tyreke still dribbles the ball into the ground for 16 seconds of the shot clock just about every time he touches the ball. The rest of the time he's taking his 20% accurate jumper. We got a dominant big in Cousins and two shooters. That's it. Nobody on the team has a skill set that resembles or has the potential to resemble the all-around skill sets of Parker or Ginobili, who are the motor of that team. No. We're several trades away from even mentioning our name in the same sentence as the Spurs.

Obviously the Spurs' offense is ideal but if everyone could do it, most teams would. Playing that way requires intelligence, unselfishness, discipline and trust -- so I'm not holding my breath.

But in Smart's defense he did have the team moving the ball beautifully in spurts. Why can't they do it consistently? When things start going wrong, players lose trust in one another which leads to selfishness which all falls back to lack of discipline.

Look at the Spurs, they are never shaken. They stay the course not matter how the game is going. They stick to the game-plan (minus adjustments). Granted, they have Pop.

There was a stretch where statistically this team was at the top of the league in apg. Not coincidentally that was also a stretch where this team ran a lot more high post offense, during that span Hayes was up around 4+ apg per 36. Then as the season wound down Smart either lost his brain, or was trying things out because this team went almost exclusively to the pick and roll. Even had Hayes in that set which is the stuff nightmares are made of, Hayes as your finisher? Wow coach. It was all play calls, all of it.

I just don't get this assumption that it's always the coach deciding to go away from what works. I'm much more inclined to believe it's a lack of discipline on the part of the players.

You should also consider the possibility that a tank effort was in effect over the last 10-14 games.

You could see it in the on the court play, the difference in the attitude and effort.

Playing like the Spurs requires veterans with familiarity. Lets get the team actually running first then we can worry about trying to pass like the best passing team in the last 10 years.

The Kings; trying to play offensively like the Spurs; who play offensively like the Kings USED to play 10 years ago...

Look at the spurs line-up. A majority of the players are international. International players are developed extremely different than americans. Americans are born into this "me first", "I have to be the best" mentality while the rest of the world is trained to put the team first. Im not advocating getting a bunch of europeans, im just saying theres a different mentality when it comes to the international game.

It's much less about the players and more about the culture. Stephen Jackson goes to the Spurs and goes from being a major pain in ass in Milwaukee to fitting in perfectly--even not complaining when he doesn't get much PT. That starts with Pop and Duncan.

pillwenney wrote:


I just don't get this assumption that it's always the coach deciding to go away from what works. I'm much more inclined to believe it's a lack of discipline on the part of the players.

Because it was PLAY CALLS. They were running plays designed by the coach and even called out by him on the sideline. They ran a play called "New York" for John Salmons and it worked well for him, then they ran it more and more for others but the players they were running it through weren't used best in that role and the offense became very stagnant as a result. They went away from high post play for many sets by design and they ran the pick and roll formation well, but the players and in particular the bigs just aren't great pick and roll finishers.

So every time they went away from it, you saw Smart calling out for them to do so from the sideline?

down_el_road wrote:Look at the spurs line-up. A majority of the players are international. International players are developed extremely different than americans. Americans are born into this "me first", "I have to be the best" mentality while the rest of the world is trained to put the team first. Im not advocating getting a bunch of europeans, im just saying theres a different mentality when it comes to the international game.

There is some truth to that and it's also why a lot of them probably top out at role player levels. It goes back to the argument of talent vs. role. Last year was a major lesson of what a team looks like when that is out of flux one way (too much talent), and the Kings existence for the previous 6 years or so is an example of what happens when it is out of flux the other way (too many role players, not enough talent).

pillwenney wrote:So every time they went away from it, you saw Smart calling out for them to do so from the sideline?

They were running the play, do you really think you wouldn't have heard something from Smart after the game saying they didn't run the play he called? And especially if they deviated from it almost every play later in the year? You can bag on Smart for whatever but as a post game interview he rarely minces words. There was even an article in the bee talking about that play being used at the end of a game for someone, can't remember who right now. I can only assume it was experimentation, much like he talked about the Tyreke at SF idea.