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They're both too ball dominant to be effective together. It seems so obvious that one of them needs to be the 6th man. With the current roster I'd start Salmons at the 3, Tyreke or Thornton at the 2, and Thomas at the 1. I think that would help team play and it would give the Kings one of the better benches in the NBA.

I would like it to be Thorton. He would be a great sixth man and can still average 30 mpg. I think the Kings we need create an identity in the half court offense as a team that works from the inside out. That would be our guards job, get our bigs the ball on the post.

I agree, and like penny says, it's a tough call who.

Yup Thornton off the bench. Smart needs to make it clear that playing defense will need to be a priority if this team wants to improve. Play D, get more playing time. Don't play D, sit on the bench. Tyreke is inconsistent on defense but he is generally much better than Thornton.

Thornton as 6th man. With IT, JT, Salmons, Hayes off the bench.

On one hand, it's a tough call. Thornton is absolutely the better fit with Demarcus as an off the ball scorer, and Tyreke's ball dominance is more suited to him being the center of everything off the bench.

But, Tyreke is the one we have to get behind as the future. He is the one that can still get much, much better and be a real star, and he needs to be cultivated as such. Also we really need his D in the starting lineup instead of Marcus'--particularly if Isaiah is still our starting PG. So what I'd say for now is, start Tyreke and hope to God he has improved his jumper and his ability to play a little more off the ball. Some consistent D would be nice too.

Depends who our starting SF is, too. T-Will and Evans are a horrible fit next to each other, but T-Will and MT are much better.

Yeah, Evans and J-Sal are bad fits also. Salmons and Thorton did ok though, according to this: http://basketballvalue.com/teamunits.ph ... 2&team=SAC

The Kings aren't bringing back Donte because they have Travis Outlaw, maybe they won't bring back T-Will because they have Salmons.

Thornton is not ball dominant. He just takes a lot of shots.

The problem with Tyreke/Thornton is not that they don't play well together. The problem is that Tyreke can't play PG. Their games do mesh well. Hypothetically, if Tyreke could play PG, or if Thornton was 4 inches taller and played SF, they would be great fits together. But neither is happening, so Thornton needs to come off the bench simply because he's a worse defender and he can be a more devastating weapon against bench defenders off the dribble than starters.

Tyreke off the bench. Thornton starts.

It is irrational to be wedded to cultivating Tyreke's career just because we picked him fourth and he won rookie of the year. Thornton has been the more productive and efficient player the last two years, easily, and he complements Cousins who is the guy that will lead us back to our winning days.

It is suicide in this league to get sentimental. Memphis picked Thabeet second, he was garbage, and you didn't see them trying to start him instead of Zach Randolph. No. They got rid of him. You cut your losses and move on. Tyreke does not make any of his teammates better. He gets his stats at the expense of winning games and goes home. Thornton pairs well with Cousins because he can actually shoot the ball. Last time I checked, Tyreke shoots 20% when he's not driving to the hoop.

People really need to let go of this love for Evans at the expense of a guy like Thornton who is a very young, rising star in this league. Just because we didn't draft Thornton, or maybe because he was a second round pick without the national media hype, people in Sacramento underappreciate what he does for the team. 21ppg in 2010-11 for us, 19ppg 2011-12 taking 2 fewer shots per game; two 3's per game, 87% FT%,1.4 steals...all better than Tyreke. And, we win more when he plays and Tyreke doesn't. Live in the now - Tyreke was not better than Thornton the last 2 years and does not deserve to start. Thornton is our SG going forward, not Evans.

Dude, it's not sentimental at all. But you pretty much need real star-caliber wings to win in this league. Thornton won't be that. He'll just be a good scorer. He's as good as he's going to get in that way.

Tyreke, while the worse player right now, still could get much better. It's not likely at this point, but there's at least the possibility. If Tyreke does develop a jumper, he'll be miles better than Thornton. He'll be a nearly unstoppable scorer--the kind of guy that can be a cornerstone of your franchise.

And AGAIN, I'm not putting money on that happening, but we have no other options for a star wing right now, so we should at least do everything we can try to make Tyreke into that player, because unlike Thornton, he does have the ability to reach that level.

SacKingsPejaFan wrote:Tyreke off the bench. Thornton starts.

It is irrational to be wedded to cultivating Tyreke's career just because we picked him fourth and he won rookie of the year. Thornton has been the more productive and efficient player the last two years, easily, and he complements Cousins who is the guy that will lead us back to our winning days.

It is suicide in this league to get sentimental. Memphis picked Thabeet second, he was garbage, and you didn't see them trying to start him instead of Zach Randolph. No. They got rid of him. You cut your losses and move on. Tyreke does not make any of his teammates better. He gets his stats at the expense of winning games and goes home. Thornton pairs well with Cousins because he can actually shoot the ball. Last time I checked, Tyreke shoots 20% when he's not driving to the hoop.

People really need to let go of this love for Evans at the expense of a guy like Thornton who is a very young, rising star in this league. Just because we didn't draft Thornton, or maybe because he was a second round pick without the national media hype, people in Sacramento underappreciate what he does for the team. 21ppg in 2010-11 for us, 19ppg 2011-12 taking 2 fewer shots per game; two 3's per game, 87% FT%,1.4 steals...all better than Tyreke. And, we win more when he plays and Tyreke doesn't. Live in the now - Tyreke was not better than Thornton the last 2 years and does not deserve to start. Thornton is our SG going forward, not Evans.

It's flawed logic to compare Thabeet's situation in Memphis, with Tyreke's situation in Sacramento. Thabeet never showed any signs of talent, not even a hint. Tyreke on the other hand, was a ROY, who was one of only a few NBA players to averge 20-5-5, no easy task.

Thornton, a great player, will never be a star. He's an extremely talented offensive player, on par with Jason Terry. Tyreke has the ability to take over a game on both sides of the court. He's a jump shot away from being a dominate wing. It may, or may not ever happen. But that doesn't change the fact that Thornton is a Jason Terry-type player.

If IT is your PG, it has to be Reke off the bench. Thornton shoots, Reke doesn't. Kings need shooting. Thornton also plays off of Cuz much better.

SacKingZZZ wrote:If IT is your PG, it has to be Reke off the bench. Thornton shoots, Reke doesn't. Kings need shooting. Thornton also plays off of Cuz much better.

Except then we'll still have a horrible defensive backcourt.

SacKingZZZ wrote:If IT is your PG, it has to be Reke off the bench. Thornton shoots, Reke doesn't. Kings need shooting. Thornton also plays off of Cuz much better.

IT & MT23 as your backcourt? BARF

You need at least one plus defender in your backcourt to be successful. Neither of those two are.

pillwenney wrote:

SacKingZZZ wrote:If IT is your PG, it has to be Reke off the bench. Thornton shoots, Reke doesn't. Kings need shooting. Thornton also plays off of Cuz much better.

Except then we'll still have a horrible defensive backcourt.

I'm saying this as in if you want to run IT as a "true" PG, where you run more pick and roll through him, which they didn't do a ton of but you never know what Smart is going to do. He stuck with things that didn't work far too long at times last year, ditched them, and then went back to some of them as time went on.

My personal preference is still to have Reke and Thornton as your backcourt and just run more set plays or drive and dish. It's not hard and it worked the year before. Of course you'd prefer better shooting at SF. This team can play the pick and roll but to live and die in it would be a mistake. TRob could be a really good pick and roll option though so it does make the team better with his arrival.

The worst defense in the league isn't going to be destroyed nor majorly improved based on what this team does in it's backcourt, not without the offense being effected at least. You can say IT/Reke is better defensively than IT/Thornton, but it's worse offensively and how much worse defensively is it really? I mean c'mon. This isn't a team that is going to be good defensively based on individual talent. Hayes is the best defender and defensive oriented player by far, and the weaknesses beyond that are still there. Just as last year this will have to be a team defense oriented system. The one positive is with TRob in the frontcourt you have good effort guys that will give 100% and he has a good enough mind to play good team defense.

KF10 wrote:

SacKingZZZ wrote:If IT is your PG, it has to be Reke off the bench. Thornton shoots, Reke doesn't. Kings need shooting. Thornton also plays off of Cuz much better.

IT & MT23 as your backcourt? BARF

You need at least one plus defender in your backcourt to be successful. Neither of those two are.

But you have to have shooting if you have to bigs like Robinson and Cousins. I really want to see this team go after Landry Fields, he can play PG a little and he understands that corner 3 role well.

If they don't at least try to go back to Reke/Thornton and move forward with it I'm going to BARF.

SacKingZZZ wrote:

KF10 wrote:

SacKingZZZ wrote:If IT is your PG, it has to be Reke off the bench. Thornton shoots, Reke doesn't. Kings need shooting. Thornton also plays off of Cuz much better.

IT & MT23 as your backcourt? BARF

You need at least one plus defender in your backcourt to be successful. Neither of those two are.

But you have to have shooting if you have to bigs like Robinson and Cousins. I really want to see this team go after Landry Fields, he can play PG a little and he understands that corner 3 role well.

If they don't at least try to go back to Reke/Thornton and move forward with it I'm going to BARF.

With or without Thornton, we are still in the bottom in the L in 3PT. I rather up my defense in inserting Evans as the 2-guard with IT at the 1 if we go to that route.

Fields is a RFA. They can match anything we can offer. I don't see us in a bidding war for a player that had a worse year than his rookie year. His 3PT was MIA all year and his rebounding (his "key feature" is gone). Personally, I would drop some cash on him if we know that he will bounce back. I rather opt for other players though.

Reke & Thornton duo is meh to me. I guess I could give it another chance. But I rather opt for someone that can play the PG-role at a high level. Reke isn't the type of player that can orchestrate the offense at a high level. He can do it in stretches but not enough in a 48-minute game. We need a Dragic-type of player paired with Evans and MT23 to the bench.

KF10 wrote:
With or without Thornton, we are still in the bottom in the L in 3PT. I rather up my defense in inserting Evans as the 2-guard with IT at the 1 if we go to that route.

Fields is a RFA. They can match anything we can offer. I don't see us in a bidding war for a player that had a worse year than his rookie year. His 3PT was MIA all year and his rebounding (his "key feature" is gone). Personally, I would drop some cash on him if we know that he will bounce back. I rather opt for other players though.

Reke & Thornton duo is meh to me. I guess I could give it another chance. But I rather opt for someone that can play the PG-role at a high level. Reke isn't the type of player that can orchestrate the offense at a high level. He can do it in stretches but not enough in a 48-minute game. We need a Dragic-type of player paired with Evans and MT23 to the bench.

Eh, that's somewhat subjective. That's because this team lacks shooting overall and put units on the floor that literally had NO shooting whatsoever yet they were "better" defensively. Even the good shooters didn't shoot well which speaks to an overall lack of understanding or true system to consistently get good shots. Shooting is more repetition than anything else. If you are a corner 3 guy playing sporadic minutes, getting sporadic looks in the offense you'll probably shoot sporadically. If you stick a guy in the corner who is supposed to be better defensively but can't hit the side of a barn how much did you really help yourself?

This team could have gone towards a direction where they were bringing in defensive role playing personnel to fill gaps, but they didn't. They brought in more offense and offensive rebounding. Coach Smart wants to play up tempo. If that's your identity you can't put one of the worst shooting lineups you can for most of the game and expect to win in that style of play. It goes back to commitment as to what you are and how you want to play.

New York is going to have to work in the new NBA. There's a downside to overpaying at 3 positions. It's also hard to compare shooting years, he shot extremely well his first year from 3. Last year? Lot of change around him and I think with the Kings he'd be used more like he was his first year in the league. Bad offensive sets or systems kill shooting and even good shooters sometimes. Especially spot shooters. I like Fields because he's by far the closest answer to what you'd like defensively at SF that has also shown potential as a shooter and who you might not have to break the bank for.

SacKingZZZ wrote:Eh, that's somewhat subjective. That's because this team lacks shooting overall and put units on the floor that literally had NO shooting whatsoever yet they were "better" defensively. Even the good shooters didn't shoot well which speaks to an overall lack of understanding or true system to consistently get good shots. Shooting is more repetition than anything else. If you are a corner 3 guy playing sporadic minutes, getting sporadic looks in the offense you'll probably shoot sporadically. If you stick a guy in the corner who is supposed to be better defensively but can't hit the side of a barn how much did you really help yourself?

This team could have gone towards a direction where they were bringing in defensive role playing personnel to fill gaps, but they didn't. They brought in more offense and offensive rebounding. Coach Smart wants to play up tempo. If that's your identity you can't put one of the worst shooting lineups you can for most of the game and expect to win in that style of play. It goes back to commitment as to what you are and how you want to play.

New York is going to have to work in the new NBA. There's a downside to overpaying at 3 positions. It's also hard to compare shooting years, he shot extremely well his first year from 3. Last year? Lot of change around him and I think with the Kings he'd be used more like he was his first year in the league. Bad offensive sets or systems kill shooting and even good shooters sometimes. Especially spot shooters. I like Fields because he's by far the closest answer to what you'd like defensively at SF that has also shown potential as a shooter and who you might not have to break the bank for.

I mean, if you look at the numbers, the Kings were in the bottom-5 in 3PT shooting the last two seasons. I don't think it's "overall lack of understanding or true system to consistently get good shots." We are a horrid 3PT shooting team that happens to shoot ALOT of 3PTers. Sure, we got some guys that SHOULD have shot the 3PTer ALOT better i.e. Garcia, Salmons, Greene, Outlaw but that's what you get for playing inconsistent players, you get inconsistent play. The Kings needs to get a legit 3PT specialist(s) if we want to improve our spacing. I have almost no faith the group above to shoot the 3PTer at a consistent level. I would do a massive face palm if Petrie/Smart gives that group "another shot to redeem" themselves. Please, we need someone who is already established as a 3PT sniper and can drill them any time when need it!

The Kings horribly misused Jimmer last year. We put him in a "ball-handling" role rather than a "spot-up" role. He's the only player that can really fall down to your reasoning. I shake my head every time when we utlize Jimmer as an orchestrator (P&R) on offense. He needs to be in a position that uses his strengths at every opportunity, unfortunately we didn't do that last season.

I don't know what to think about Fields. Last year can be an anomaly and will bounce back to his rookie-level shooting (39%) OR he's on a trajectory of mediocre shooting (25%). I'm skimming through his shooting numbers, it's a HUGE contrast between his first and second year. You have to remember a guy like Donte Greene had a 38% 3PT season where he attempted 2 a game. Look at him now, dude is barely breaking the 24% mark and is about to be jobless. Not saying Fields is going to be like Greene but it's something to take into consideration.