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http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/230851/Wolves-Agree-To-Trade-Derrick-Williams-To-Kings-For-Mbah-a-Moute

The Minnesota Timberwolves have agreed to trade Derrick Williams to the Sacramento Kings for Luc Mbah a Moute.

The trade is contingent on Mbah a Moute passing a physical.

Williams was the second overall pick of the 2011 NBA Draft.

No picks, cash or others players are expected to be included in the deal.

What are your thoughts?

I think the Kings are doing everything they said they wouldn't and nothing they said they would. Say one thing, do another. Talent for talent, good move, but Mbah a Moute actually provided a major role and was a big part of this team looking somewhat decent the last week or two. Could be a great win talent wise if Williams exceeds what he showed as a starter in Minny.

TWolves just got super legit on the wing with Moute and Brewer. Kings can no longer defend a lick at any position except when Hayes in in there now. Should be even more interesting now to see what this team looks like when Landry comes back. C'mon GM guy, time to start cleaning up the mess that Petrie created not add to it. I'll give him one more move before I call it for what it is.

Confusion. We're getting rid of a lockdown defender 1-3 on a team trying to establish defense while adding a 4 on a team with too many other 4's. We must be trying to move other players or are planning on playing him at SF for this to make any sense.

DWill/PPat/Hayes/Landry/Thompson

and

Outlaw/Salmons...

wtf.

SmellingColors wrote:Confusion. We're getting rid of a lockdown defender 1-3 on a team trying to establish defense while adding a 4 on a team with too many other 4's. We must be trying to move other players or are planning on playing him at SF for this to make any sense.

DWill/PPat/Hayes/Landry/Thompson

and

Outlaw/Salmons...

wtf.

From the same GM who signed Carl Landry and didn't trade anyone in the frontcourt to make room for him. Yeah, radar is going off again fellas.

Oh, he'll be SF I would imagine. Too bad his best NBA basketball came when he played in place of Kevin Love. I know he slimmed down to play SF but we'll see. The team needs talent for sure, but you have to honestly gauge the level of that talent while also not destroying what you're trying to build. Mbah a Moute is the perfect player to put around somebody like Cousins. He got Cousins tons of passing opportunities just from his off the ball movement. Oh well, two steps forward in one direction, 3 back in the direction you should be headed.

Luc was actually getting better...im confused with this trade...

As much I like LRMM, this makes sense. The Kings are 4-9 so far and have a long way of winning at anything. This deal represents the classic "buy-low/reward-high" moves. We have to trade away something positive (LRMM) to get that (Williams).

From the discussions I had with Minny fans, they think Williams can be a rich man's version of Patrick Patterson (remember last year, when PPat was killing it with us? Imagine that but better!).

KF10 wrote:As much I like LRMM, this makes sense. The Kings are 4-9 so far and have a long way of winning at anything. This deal represents the classic "buy-low/reward-high" moves. We have to trade away something positive (LRMM) to get that (Williams).

From the discussions I had with Minny fans, they think Williams can be a rich man's version of Patrick Patterson (remember last year, when PPat was killing it with us? Imagine that but better!).

But does this team need a rich man's Patrick Patterson? I mean, what are they trying to build again? Now they just overstuffed the PF spot so far that they are scarily almost outdoing Petrie on the WTF meter. I think this team is too far along and potentially stuck in the middle to take a super long term approach. Making it worse in the interim just from a basketball on the floor sense is not good for players, fans, or anyone, and they'll soon learn it's really, really bad for value too.

I liked luc but he was maybe one of the few players we could trade without having to trade other young talent. It's a low risk high reward trade for a 4-9 team. The salmons and Thornton blockbuster we want isn't happening.

SacKingZZZ wrote:

But does this team need a rich man's Patrick Patterson? I mean, what are they trying to build again? Now they just overstuffed the PF spot so far that they are scarily almost outdoing Petrie on the WTF meter. I think this team is too far along and potentially stuck in the middle to take a super long term approach. Making it worse in the interim just from a basketball on the floor sense is not good for players, fans, or anyone, and they'll soon learn it's really, really bad for value too.

LRMM's true value shines when a team is already good. Here with the Kings? It is marginal at best. LRMM isn't a difference maker with us when looking at the grand scheme of things. Williams is a former #2 pick and still have potential/upside to be a difference maker. Who knows? A change of scenery will do wonders for Williams.

I like LRMM but this makes sense imo.

SacKingZZZ wrote:

KF10 wrote:As much I like LRMM, this makes sense. The Kings are 4-9 so far and have a long way of winning at anything. This deal represents the classic "buy-low/reward-high" moves. We have to trade away something positive (LRMM) to get that (Williams).

From the discussions I had with Minny fans, they think Williams can be a rich man's version of Patrick Patterson (remember last year, when PPat was killing it with us? Imagine that but better!).

But does this team need a rich man's Patrick Patterson? I mean, what are they trying to build again? Now they just overstuffed the PF spot so far that they are scarily almost outdoing Petrie on the WTF meter. I think this team is too far along and potentially stuck in the middle to take a super long term approach. Making it worse in the interim just from a basketball on the floor sense is not good for players, fans, or anyone, and they'll soon learn it's really, really bad for value too.

I'm not a huge fan of the trade, but this bolded statement had me scratching my already itchy head. Too far along with what? The rebuild? I'm sorry to tell you, but it's only started. Pete hasn't even finished setting up the charges to blow this m-effer to smithereens.

Like the rest of you, I'm confused. I thought they were trying to build a defensively-oriented team and Mbah a Moute was one of the first steps toward collecting the personnel to do that. Maybe management just thought this was too good a deal to pass up and Minny didn't want our scraps. I like Mbah a Moute a lot. Hopefully Williams develops.

KF10 wrote:

SacKingZZZ wrote:

But does this team need a rich man's Patrick Patterson? I mean, what are they trying to build again? Now they just overstuffed the PF spot so far that they are scarily almost outdoing Petrie on the WTF meter. I think this team is too far along and potentially stuck in the middle to take a super long term approach. Making it worse in the interim just from a basketball on the floor sense is not good for players, fans, or anyone, and they'll soon learn it's really, really bad for value too.

LRMM's true value shines when a team is already good. Here with the Kings? It is marginal at best. LRMM isn't a difference maker with us when looking at the grand scheme of things. Williams is a former #2 pick and still have potential/upside to be a difference maker. Who knows? A change of scenery will do wonders for Williams.

I like LRMM but this makes sense imo.

This team started to look far more competitive immediately when he got the start. I get what your saying, but when is this team planning to get "good"? 2018-2019? Time to start putting the walls up on this b*tch. You've already got a max contract on the books moving forward, long term money locked into another offensively minded tweener type, and who knows what will be invested to keep the PG spot stocked. Whether they know it or not, time is getting there. Luc makes under MLE type of money, he's not a hindrance by any stretch.

I don't mind Williams but trade your SF who fills needs for him? Especially considering this teams complete weaknesses defensively almost everywhere else which just raises the value of having a true stopper at one position? Nah, not an easy victory in this one. I would maybe be more confident if this wasn't another situation where a tweener comes in to a team loaded with them already. Just like Thomas Robinson or JJ Hickson before him, how is this supposed to work again?

However, on the flip side, Mbah a Moute is going to be a PERFECT fit for Adelmans system and the Wolves roster. Congrats to the Wolves, they just got better, Kings just figured "why not?". Playing the "why not" game can get you into trouble if that's all you do.

I cant say I am mad about the trade . I think D.Will will do well here in Sac .
I do have to say & agree with Sacingspeja fan about us suppose to be building a much better defensive minded team . That said hopefully this is 1 of many trades to revamp out team & we will get at least 1 or 2 other defensive minded players . Like a power forward like Faried .

I think we will have talks with the bulls after the D.Rose situation & as well we will have talks with teams like the Knicks , Denver & Grizz to name a few . I believe the Grizz wil try & trade for 1 of J.T. , Hayes or Patterson .

Wolfay wrote:

SacKingZZZ wrote:

KF10 wrote:As much I like LRMM, this makes sense. The Kings are 4-9 so far and have a long way of winning at anything. This deal represents the classic "buy-low/reward-high" moves. We have to trade away something positive (LRMM) to get that (Williams).

From the discussions I had with Minny fans, they think Williams can be a rich man's version of Patrick Patterson (remember last year, when PPat was killing it with us? Imagine that but better!).

But does this team need a rich man's Patrick Patterson? I mean, what are they trying to build again? Now they just overstuffed the PF spot so far that they are scarily almost outdoing Petrie on the WTF meter. I think this team is too far along and potentially stuck in the middle to take a super long term approach. Making it worse in the interim just from a basketball on the floor sense is not good for players, fans, or anyone, and they'll soon learn it's really, really bad for value too.

I'm not a huge fan of the trade, but this bolded statement had me scratching my already itchy head. Too far along with what? The rebuild? I'm sorry to tell you, but it's only started. Pete hasn't even finished setting up the charges to blow this m-effer to smithereens.

That's fair enough. I also saw a Carmichael Dave tweet which said "I know Salmons, Thornton, and an aluminum can is the preferred move, but other teams have to benefit somehow."

I had an initial bad reaction to the trade too, and I still don't think it necessarily makes sense on its own, but it's important to have context. We were talking about trade value being very limited on the other thread and I guess this is an example of that. Just hoping for the best, but still wary of the move. We'll see.

I like the trade. Although I am not sure Williams will live up to his #2 draft status he has talent. We need talent. Hopefully it can be put together.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using RealGM Forums mobile app

Wolfay wrote:

SacKingZZZ wrote:

KF10 wrote:As much I like LRMM, this makes sense. The Kings are 4-9 so far and have a long way of winning at anything. This deal represents the classic "buy-low/reward-high" moves. We have to trade away something positive (LRMM) to get that (Williams).

From the discussions I had with Minny fans, they think Williams can be a rich man's version of Patrick Patterson (remember last year, when PPat was killing it with us? Imagine that but better!).

But does this team need a rich man's Patrick Patterson? I mean, what are they trying to build again? Now they just overstuffed the PF spot so far that they are scarily almost outdoing Petrie on the WTF meter. I think this team is too far along and potentially stuck in the middle to take a super long term approach. Making it worse in the interim just from a basketball on the floor sense is not good for players, fans, or anyone, and they'll soon learn it's really, really bad for value too.

I'm not a huge fan of the trade, but this bolded statement had me scratching my already itchy head. Too far along with what? The rebuild? I'm sorry to tell you, but it's only started. Pete hasn't even finished setting up the charges to blow this m-effer to smithereens.

So, he's just warming up by shifting weight pound for pound on the cap? How does this in anyway help the process along? How did signing Carl Landry to a multi-year deal help that process? You can't really just "blow it to smithereens" when you have to try and retain the young talent you do have. Sure, you'd love to blow it to smithereens in relation to a good part of the roster but somebody has to take the junk away first. Like I said, Cousins is signed but what will it take to retain someone like Derrick Williams in two years, or Vasquez or IT next year? They should be focusing on value whether it be regaining it, or retaining it and making moves towards building a team. If this team has any aspirations in free agency the model for success has been set for the last few years: have something in place to degree so it's worth coming to.

Lets just call this deal what it is, a stab in the dark that might pay off. If he can unload some stuff to bring it back into focus by the deadline then it will start to make sense, but so far, it looks like the potential for more side stepping. My concern is still the fit. This year, last year and the year before it are all textbook examples of how situation isn't everything, it's the only thing in regards to value.

Jimmer still rotting on the bench......

SacKingZZZ wrote:This team started to look far more competitive immediately when he got the start. I get what your saying, but when is this team planning to get "good"? 2018-2019? Time to start putting the walls up on this b*tch. You've already got a max contract on the books moving forward, long term money locked into another offensively minded tweener type, and who knows what will be invested to keep the PG spot stocked. Whether they know it or not, time is getting there. Luc makes under MLE type of money, he's not a hindrance by any stretch.

I don't mind Williams but trade your SF who fills needs for him? Especially considering this teams complete weaknesses defensively almost everywhere else which just raises the value of having a true stopper at one position? Nah, not an easy victory in this one. I would maybe be more confident if this wasn't another situation where a tweener comes in to a team loaded with them already. Just like Thomas Robinson or JJ Hickson before him, how is this supposed to work again?

However, on the flip side, Mbah a Moute is going to be a PERFECT fit for Adelmans system and the Wolves roster. Congrats to the Wolves, they just got better, Kings just figured "why not?". Playing the "why not" game can get you into trouble if that's all you do.

Sure, we were more competitive when they inserted LRMM into the starting lineup. But come on now. A lineup of Vasquez/BMac/LRMM/JT/Cousins will lead us to NOWHERE. We are still in the early stages of rebuilding, sadly enough. Why do you talk as if we are going to compete soon? We are not there yet! We are still in the "stockpiling assets and trading away unnecessary pieces" phase. So what we signed Cousins to the max? As a team, we are still a long way to go to sniff any Ws on a consistent basis.

Like Malone said, this season will be evaluated not on wins but the difference of a culture. Changing from one culture to another will be a process and it will take time.

KF10 wrote:

SacKingZZZ wrote:This team started to look far more competitive immediately when he got the start. I get what your saying, but when is this team planning to get "good"? 2018-2019? Time to start putting the walls up on this b*tch. You've already got a max contract on the books moving forward, long term money locked into another offensively minded tweener type, and who knows what will be invested to keep the PG spot stocked. Whether they know it or not, time is getting there. Luc makes under MLE type of money, he's not a hindrance by any stretch.

I don't mind Williams but trade your SF who fills needs for him? Especially considering this teams complete weaknesses defensively almost everywhere else which just raises the value of having a true stopper at one position? Nah, not an easy victory in this one. I would maybe be more confident if this wasn't another situation where a tweener comes in to a team loaded with them already. Just like Thomas Robinson or JJ Hickson before him, how is this supposed to work again?

However, on the flip side, Mbah a Moute is going to be a PERFECT fit for Adelmans system and the Wolves roster. Congrats to the Wolves, they just got better, Kings just figured "why not?". Playing the "why not" game can get you into trouble if that's all you do.

Sure, we were more competitive when they inserted LRMM into the starting lineup. But come on now. A lineup of Vasquez/BMac/LRMM/JT/Cousins will lead us to NOWHERE. We are still in the early stages of rebuilding, sadly enough. Why do you talk as if we are going to compete soon? We are not there yet! We are still in the "stockpiling assets and trading away unnecessary pieces" phase. So what we signed Cousins to the max? As a team, we are still a long way to go to sniff any Ws on a consistent basis.

Like Malone said, this season will be evaluated not on wins but the difference of a culture. Changing from one culture to another will be a process and it will take time.

You compete based on the moves you make. They clearly were going that route this summer. And, when you have potentially the best C already, you may not be too far away. It's all based on the moves you make to put a real team around him. Regardless of all that, at some point too much pure talent is too much, too much youth is too much unless you are firmly in the hunt for that top pick in a good draft, too much of anything is too much, it's all about balance. This is a move that is impossible to argue in any way that it brought this team into any sort of balance. That's the entire point, "stockpiling assets"? Now, you have to admit, everything I've pretty much predicted would happen when they stockpiled similar assets happened. Thomas Robinson anyone? If the give Williams the green light good, he's just an asset now? If the Kings gave up Mbah a Moute for him, what kind of value does that represent as an asset? We'll see.

SacKingZZZ wrote:

Wolfay wrote:

SacKingZZZ wrote:

But does this team need a rich man's Patrick Patterson? I mean, what are they trying to build again? Now they just overstuffed the PF spot so far that they are scarily almost outdoing Petrie on the WTF meter. I think this team is too far along and potentially stuck in the middle to take a super long term approach. Making it worse in the interim just from a basketball on the floor sense is not good for players, fans, or anyone, and they'll soon learn it's really, really bad for value too.

I'm not a huge fan of the trade, but this bolded statement had me scratching my already itchy head. Too far along with what? The rebuild? I'm sorry to tell you, but it's only started. Pete hasn't even finished setting up the charges to blow this m-effer to smithereens.

So, he's just warming up by shifting weight pound for pound on the cap? How does this in anyway help the process along? How did signing Carl Landry to a multi-year deal help that process? You can't really just "blow it to smithereens" when you have to try and retain the young talent you do have. Sure, you'd love to blow it to smithereens in relation to a good part of the roster but somebody has to take the junk away first. Like I said, Cousins is signed but what will it take to retain someone like Derrick Williams in two years, or Vasquez or IT next year? They should be focusing on value whether it be regaining it, or retaining it and making moves towards building a team. If this team has any aspirations in free agency the model for success has been set for the last few years: have something in place to degree so it's worth coming to.

Lets just call this deal what it is, a stab in the dark that might pay off. If he can unload some stuff to bring it back into focus by the deadline then it will start to make sense, but so far, it looks like the potential for more side stepping. My concern is still the fit. This year, last year and the year before it are all textbook examples of how situation isn't everything, it's the only thing in regards to value.

You're thinking way too far ahead. Long-term is irrelevant. I actually find it hilarious that you're worrying about fit and retaining guys on a 4 and 9 team. Right now it's all about acquiring talent, and at this stage you can take risks on guys like Derrick WIlliams.