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All things considered, what is Rudy worth to us readers and what do we think he's worth to Pete? If he opts out.

Reke wasn't worth 11m per to Pete, but I think Rudy is a better player. Plus Rudy has value beyond the court with his veteran experience, and he does seem to have the ability and desire to stand up to Cuz and talk to him in a mature, rational way.

I'd be thrilled if he'd sign for 12 per, but will he get a better offer? Is he worth the 14 per he may get? I certainly wouldn't go over 14.

D-Williams looks a bit like a young Rudy, and certainly cheaper, but he lacks the experience, maturity, and his game is a long ways from developed.

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4 years, $60M. Last year a team option.

Jeez, I hope it's not that much. He's played well, but we can't assume this half season is going to hold up over a career of inefficiency, and I have to think that's going to come into play at the negotiating table.

If somebody else offers him that, I'd let him walk. He's a very nice player, but he's no cornerstone.

I've seen an individualistic play here and there, I don't want him trying to put up stats down the stretch of the season to give himself more leverage. Team game.

I don't think there will be a top market for him as he has had a good half to this last season. What is Iggy making? 13? That's the type I think he will command. His reputation might hurt him here even if it isn't the reality of how he has played in Sacramento

RIPskaterdude wrote:4 years, $60M. Last year a team option.

This is about right, less for fully guaranteed, final year will only have like 5 guaranteed.

Considering our high state taxes and average to smaller market size.

Yeah, 14-15 million most likely.

pillwenney wrote:Jeez, I hope it's not that much. He's played well, but we can't assume this half season is going to hold up over a career of inefficiency, and I have to think that's going to come into play at the negotiating table.

If somebody else offers him that, I'd let him walk. He's a very nice player, but he's no cornerstone.

It's funny, I almost forgot who Rudy Gay was since he's been in Toronto. I also didn't realize he was in Toronto for less than a full seasons worth of games and that was all the time it took for him to become the worst basketball player in history. I never thought he was a superstar in Memphis, but he wasn't that inefficient really. Most years he was shooting around 45-47%, that's pretty good.

He was a cornerstone in Memphis. You can't say that team isn't regretting the day they traded him right now. I say this, while Memphis was a much better built team than this one, he's never played next to a talent like Cousins. I say build the right team around them and see what happens.

SacKingZZZ wrote:

pillwenney wrote:Jeez, I hope it's not that much. He's played well, but we can't assume this half season is going to hold up over a career of inefficiency, and I have to think that's going to come into play at the negotiating table.

If somebody else offers him that, I'd let him walk. He's a very nice player, but he's no cornerstone.

It's funny, I almost forgot who Rudy Gay was since he's been in Toronto. I also didn't realize he was in Toronto for less than a full seasons worth of games and that was all the time it took for him to become the worst basketball player in history. I never thought he was a superstar in Memphis, but he wasn't that inefficient really. Most years he was shooting around 45-47%, that's pretty good.

He was a cornerstone in Memphis. You can't say that team isn't regretting the day they traded him right now. I say this, while Memphis was a much better built team than this one, he's never played next to a talent like Cousins. I say build the right team around them and see what happens.

He wasn't super inefficient, but he wasn't all that efficient either, even at his best. He certainly was never worth the deal he got. I don't think anybody would argue that.

And I don't think Memphis would regret that trade at all had they gotten a better version of Tayshaun Prince. Gay leaving allowed Conley to blossom and should have given them more cap flexibility. The issue there is Prince's poor performance. Let's not forget though that (I believe) they did reach the WCF the playoffs after they traded him. At the very least, it certainly appears his exit didn't make a huge difference.

And while he hadn't played with Cuz, he did play with Gasol and a prime Randolph. That's one of the better offensive big man combos in recent history. But still his efficiency was never much beyond average because he didn't go inside and get to the line enough.

Fortunately he is doing that more now, but we're talking about a very recent trend in a potential contract year. If I felt super confident he'd continue scoring this much this efficiently for the next few years, I'd be more inclined to pay more, but as of now, it's not worth it.

Also of note: I'd also be more inclined to pay that if his defense looked to be anywhere near his potential. But it's not, and this has been relatively consistent throughout his career.

As of now, I'd pay him what we didn't pay Tyreke last year. Would be hard pressed to allow for anything more.

pillwenney wrote:

SacKingZZZ wrote:

pillwenney wrote:Jeez, I hope it's not that much. He's played well, but we can't assume this half season is going to hold up over a career of inefficiency, and I have to think that's going to come into play at the negotiating table.

If somebody else offers him that, I'd let him walk. He's a very nice player, but he's no cornerstone.

It's funny, I almost forgot who Rudy Gay was since he's been in Toronto. I also didn't realize he was in Toronto for less than a full seasons worth of games and that was all the time it took for him to become the worst basketball player in history. I never thought he was a superstar in Memphis, but he wasn't that inefficient really. Most years he was shooting around 45-47%, that's pretty good.

He was a cornerstone in Memphis. You can't say that team isn't regretting the day they traded him right now. I say this, while Memphis was a much better built team than this one, he's never played next to a talent like Cousins. I say build the right team around them and see what happens.

He wasn't super inefficient, but he wasn't all that efficient either, even at his best. He certainly was never worth the deal he got. I don't think anybody would argue that.

And I don't think Memphis would regret that trade at all had they gotten a better version of Tayshaun Prince. Gay leaving allowed Conley to blossom and should have given them more cap flexibility. The issue there is Prince's poor performance. Let's not forget though that (I believe) they did reach the WCF the playoffs after they traded him. At the very least, it certainly appears his exit didn't make a huge difference.

And while he hadn't played with Cuz, he did play with Gasol and a prime Randolph. That's one of the better offensive big man combos in recent history. But still his efficiency was never much beyond average because he didn't go inside and get to the line enough.

Fortunately he is doing that more now, but we're talking about a very recent trend in a potential contract year. If I felt super confident he'd continue scoring this much this efficiently for the next few years, I'd be more inclined to pay more, but as of now, it's not worth it.

Also of note: I'd also be more inclined to pay that if his defense looked to be anywhere near his potential. But it's not, and this has been relatively consistent throughout his career.

As of now, I'd pay him what we didn't pay Tyreke last year. Would be hard pressed to allow for anything more.

Oh yeah, no way was he worth it. He kind of falls into the area in between not worth it but
not quite Rashard Lewis not worth it.

Prince was already headed downhill at that point and even at his peak, he was never going to be able to provide that 1st/2nd scoring punch they needed. Gay has assumed that role here pretty well I must say.

If Rudy can be what he was in Memphis, he'll be worth that kind of deal mentioned above. If they could get him back for a Tyreke Evans level deal that would be awesome, hopefully they use that and Iggy's deal as a benchmark whenever negotiations begin. My prediction is possibly this summer in the form of an extension because no way does he opt out of that last year.

pillwenney wrote:Jeez, I hope it's not that much. He's played well, but we can't assume this half season is going to hold up over a career of inefficiency, and I have to think that's going to come into play at the negotiating table.

If somebody else offers him that, I'd let him walk. He's a very nice player, but he's no cornerstone.

If he opts out of his last year, then why wouldn't you give him that deal? 4 years $60M with last year team option or not fully guaranteed? You were going to pay $19M next year anyways.

I'm not all that concerned with next year. I'm concerned with years after that. The difference between 15mil and maybe 10 mil can be a good deal of flexibility. And I think the rest of the league likely has the same concerns I do--particularly if they don't have a big with Cousins' offensive capabilities (which almost no one does). I hope this franchise doesn't outbid ourselves the way Petrie always would in the past.

Well in terms of what he is worth now, it's easily 13-15M a year. I don't see how you can even argue that it isn't. We were willing to give a certain OTHER SF $13M this year and we took it away from him, and Gay is clearly better (and younger) than him.

RIPskaterdude wrote:Well in terms of what he is worth now, it's easily 13-15M a year. I don't see how you can even argue that it isn't. We were willing to give a certain OTHER SF $13M this year and we took it away from him, and Gay is clearly better (and younger) than him.

You can't view players in isolated circumstances. Is Gay worth $13-15 million? Yes, he probably is. Is he worth $13-15 million for Sacramento? Not at all.


Boogie + Gay + Landry + Thompson will represent a combined approximate $45 million. Leaving $15 mil in cap space for 8 additional players. Go over the cap, and the additional talent this team will be able to bring in will essentially be MLE guys.

Signing Gay to a large contract essentially sets the core of Gay/Boogie in stone and drastically limits any additional talent the team may add.



You can't just view at what Player-X brings, but you also need to look at what signing Player-X limits the team to do in the future.

Don't forget about the Pizza Guy!

History being the way it is, I think Gay might be wary of hiring himself out to the highest bidder. After his Toronto stint, I believe he wants to be on a team with a winning culture and one that has some chemistry. We might be a ways off from that winning culture, but makeup of this team has turned 180 degrees since the beginning of the season and I do believe that the players like each other. It will probably come down to how the FO sells Rudy on the King's future and his role in it. Gay is a business man and I'm sure he will want to get paid, but if getting paid slightly less comes with the opportunity to be on a team that is a playoff contender, that might be a more attractive offer for a prideful player.

What I'm mostly saying is, let the market decide what he's worth. I think his career has been up and down enough where you can justify not paying him like a great second option.

I think once again people need to understand how Gay has been perceived. We acquired him for what many would believe is less than expirings. Zach Lowe wrote at the time he was traded there were GMs who wouldn't give him the mid-level exception. If you go to the fan boards of teams who have cap space rarely have I seen anyone mentioning Gay (although many assume he won't be opting out). When we traded for him we were widely panned for taking him on. I don't know if half a season rectifies the image people have of Memphis/Toronto wanting to get rid of him completely.

Kings2013 wrote:I think once again people need to understand how Gay has been perceived. We acquired him for what many would believe is less than expirings. Zach Lowe wrote at the time he was traded there were GMs who wouldn't give him the mid-level exception. If you go to the fan boards of teams who have cap space rarely have I seen anyone mentioning Gay (although many assume he won't be opting out). When we traded for him we were widely panned for taking him on. I don't know if half a season rectifies the image people have of Memphis/Toronto wanting to get rid of him completely.

Exactly.

Yes, there may have been some idiot GM's who wouldn't have given Gay the MLE, but all it takes is ONE idiot GM to think he's worth more than he is. Never underestimate the power of 1 desperate team with cap space, and the need to salvage their summer after swinging for the fences and coming up with nada.

Example: New Orleans