I gotta eat some crow

OGSactownballer · Post #1 » by **OGSactownballer** » Tue Nov 24, 2015 3:14 am

As the title says.

So this was the first game this season that I was able to watch beginning to end.

That was one of the most pathetic displays of fourth quarter and overtime coaching I have ever seen.

How do you not get a shot blocker/second rebound (WCS) in the game to stop that penetration and get the boards?

How do you leave the ONLY guy who could slow down or stop Walker (Collison) on the bench the entire time said guy is roasting your team like a thanksgiving turkey

And how, when you can see that your best POST PLAYER (Cuz) settles for bad jump shots instead of destroying them inside like he had been all game do you not pull him BEFORE you lose your entire 20 point lead and reset your game plan?

I'm starting to wonder if George is trying to get out because he's tired of the rumors, but realistically I just think that the game has passed him by. Going the "fire again and again from three" route with a team that really only has one true three point shooter is beyond idiotic.

And letting Jeremy freaking Lin beat you in overtime is unforgivable.

Post #2 » by **Wolfay** » Tue Nov 24, 2015 4:29 am

I'll leave your rant here since we're all frustrated, but just know that this can't be regular thing. This is perfectly appropriate in a game thread, and that's where it should be.

Post #3 » by **KF10** » Tue Nov 24, 2015 4:42 am

Coach Thibs is still available, right?

enderwilson · Post #4 » by **enderwilson** » Tue Nov 24, 2015 5:27 am

Yes but we have to stick with him until the offseason. Two seasons in a row where we threw the coach out with the bathwater is not an inviting place for any coach to come to. We need to let Karl either figure it out or stink it up and then assess the results in the offseason. Riding the storm, letting the dust settle, are needed to establish a sense of stability. Some thing this team and franchise has had far too little of. And let me add another cliche about doing something over and over but expecting different results. If we're going to suck, we're going to suck with what we have. Going nuclear midseason and then expecting not to suck all of a sudden is nuts.

PaKwAn · Post #5 » by **PaKwAn** » Tue Nov 24, 2015 5:34 am

i wonder how vivek feels about the fast pace all offense type basketball without defense now...

bleeds_purple · Post #6 » by **bleeds_purple** » Tue Nov 24, 2015 5:25 pm

PaKwAn wrote:i wonder how vivek feels about the fast pace all offense type basketball without defense now...

You write that as if he has any clue what he's watching. My bet is he lacks anything beyond a basic understanding of the sport; similar to when your GF watches football with you and you have to constantly explain what's happening.

Post #7 » by **City of Trees** » Tue Nov 24, 2015 6:24 pm

PaKwAn wrote:i wonder how vivek feels about the fast pace all offense type basketball without defense now...

bleeds_purple wrote:
PaKwAn wrote:i wonder how vivek feels about the fast pace all offense type basketball without defense now...

You write that as if he has any clue what he's watching. My bet is he lacks anything beyond a basic understanding of the sport; similar to when your GF watches football with you and you have to constantly explain what's happening.

In essence you're saying Drake and Kelsey Grammar are teaching Vivek about the game

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Post #8 » by **City of Trees** » Tue Nov 24, 2015 8:39 pm

Do I think George intentionally uses bad lineups to force Vlade's hand? Of course not. I think Karl has a vision of how he wants this team to play and then there's reality.

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OGSactownballer · Post #9 » by **OGSactownballer** » Fri Nov 27, 2015 1:25 am

The reality is that traditionally on Karl's teams it is live or die by the three and the penetration kick.

Unfortunately again without a roster that essentially has at least 75% true three point range shooters that just doesn't work.

SacKingZZZ · Post #10 » by **SacKingZZZ** » Fri Nov 27, 2015 8:43 pm

Exactly, I'm also not sure you can distinguish this from good coaching vs. players playing good enough to bail out a flawed system. The Kings can't rely shooting 55% as a team, superstar games from more than one person at a time, and clocking in at under 10 turnovers a game to win even against a middling opponent. Now the question is whether or not part of the defense is a product of the offense. It probably is partially although not nearly as bad as a few years ago where almost all the defensive issues were quick shot/turnover related.

Right now they are about a .500 team playing the way they have when fully healthy. I don't consider that a good thing. The defense has to improve and it starts at the top since many defensive shortcomings are rotation related.

Post #11 » by **City of Trees** » Fri Nov 27, 2015 10:48 pm

SacKingZZZ wrote:The defense has to improve and it starts at the top since many defensive shortcomings are rotation related.

Being out of position ect is not a rotation thing.... Everyone owns a piece of the blame here.

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SacKingZZZ · Post #12 » by **SacKingZZZ** » Fri Nov 27, 2015 11:44 pm

City of Trees wrote:
SacKingZZZ wrote:The defense has to improve and it starts at the top since many defensive shortcomings are rotation related.

Being out of position ect is not a rotation thing.... Everyone owns a piece of the blame here.

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No question, but they change up their pick and roll coverage quite a bit which hurts and when you do certain things, such as full on doubling when playing in a switch defense, leaving shooters open and being out of position are a given. I'd like to see them fully commit to switching, but as we've seen, playing small at certain positions can be a nightmare if the other team is playing bigger on the wing. The Kings have gotten destroyed on mismatches too many times.

I know some are specifically pointing to the speed of the game as the issue, and that may very well be the case as well.

benchmobbin02 · Post #13 » by **benchmobbin02** » Sat Nov 28, 2015 1:14 am

No teams switch everything with every player on the floor. Just not effective. And when your 3rd and 4th best players talent wise are pgs then they get more mins. It's a part of our game. We need to get better at moving our feet, communicating, and closing out. If a guy hits a shoot with a hand in his face then you figuratively shake his hand and get on to the next play. Rondo and DC are out there together we speed up the pace because it turns our lack of size into an advantage on the offensive side of the ball.

When we play lineups like Rondo, Ben\Beli, Omri, Rudy, and a big then we can switch more. But even when we do switch there are plenty of times when guys get beat. Beli or Omri or Koufos or Rondo get beat and that has to do with the players effort, footwork and positioning and not the coach. Like Trees said, everyone needs to step up on the defensive end. We also need to be realistic when an explosive player beats a guy.

SacKingZZZ · Post #14 » by **SacKingZZZ** » Sat Nov 28, 2015 1:48 am

benchmobbin02 wrote:No teams switch everything with every player on the floor. Just not effective. And when your 3rd and 4th best players talent wise are pgs then they get more mins. It's a part of our game. We need to get better at moving our feet, communicating, and closing out. If a guy hits a shoot with a hand in his face then you figuratively shake his hand and get on to the next play. Rondo and DC are out there together we speed up the pace because it turns our lack of size into an advantage on the offensive side of the ball.

When we play lineups like Rondo, Ben\Beli, Omri, Rudy, and a big then we can switch more. But even when we do switch there are plenty of times when guys get beat. Beli or Omri or Koufos or Rondo get beat and that has to do with the players effort, footwork and positioning and not the coach. Like Trees said, everyone needs to step up on the defensive end. We also need to be realistic when an explosive player beats a guy.

Actually, a lot more are going to it, but I didn't say they should do nothing but switch. I think they need to commit to it when they do and play lineups that are capable of doing it when they do. Right now they are doing things you can't do consistently when playing a switch defense, like doubling out of it without recovering back to one on one coverage, they need to let the switch happen if that's the goal. Right now they are switching when they have two PG's on the floor. That's just fundamentally bad basketball if the other team isn't playing equally as small. If it's not hurting you or a team doesn't take advantage of it, that's fine, but teams are starting to counter it and it's not been dealt with by the coaching staff until it's started them on a downhill slide.

Right now we are still talking about a team that gives up nearly 48% on the defensive end. That's horrid. Imagine if they were even in the middle of the pack? That might be a potential playoff team.

benchmobbin02 · Post #15 » by **benchmobbin02** » Sat Nov 28, 2015 4:11 am

That is a bad % but the thing about it is a small part of that is due to Rondo or DC switching or double teaming. It's more to do with moving our feet, communicating, and closing out on time. It's not just the one issue.

SacKingZZZ · Post #16 » by **SacKingZZZ** » Sat Nov 28, 2015 5:30 am

benchmobbin02 wrote:That is a bad % but the thing about it is a small part of that is due to Rondo or DC switching or double teaming. It's more to do with moving our feet, communicating, and closing out on time. It's not just the one issue.

It has a lot to do with it because any time it happens the team has to overreact and help off the three or in the paint. Teams are consistently getting the same shots against the Kings defense.

After the last game I think the Kings maybe should look into switching the majority of the time because they clearly don't have the chops or fundamentals in place to play help defense. When more than once a player just walks out of your double team en route to the basket you are obviously unsure as a basketball team of what you're doing. Here's the other problem besides a lack of size in the back court they have when switching. They often pull that weak hard double crap when the whole point of switching is so you don't have to over help. For instance look at what the Warriors do. The warriors play the middle but never too far and when they do double they have the defensive spacing covered so they can recover if need be. That's what good coaching and preparation gets you.

Many of the problems we've seen have more to do with floor positioning and defensive concepts than anything else. If a player is playing a set out of position it's not hard to put them in the right position, and it certainly doesn't take 15 games to get that right.

benchmobbin02 · Post #17 » by **benchmobbin02** » Sat Nov 28, 2015 6:03 am

Just get on with it and blame Karl...it's clear that's where you're going with this like with all you're arguments. You try to be subtle and word it differently. It's old. You bring up scenarios that can just as well be attributed to the player or the superior skill of the opposition attacking. But we get it, you think your a better coach then Karl haha. It's really easy from behind a screen.

Kings2013 · Post #18 » by **Kings2013** » Sat Nov 28, 2015 6:42 am

benchmobbin02 wrote:Just get on with it and blame Karl...it's clear that's where you're going with this like with all you're arguments. You try to be subtle and word it differently. It's old. You bring up scenarios that can just as well be attributed to the player or the superior skill of the opposition attacking. But we get it, you think your a better coach then Karl haha. It's really easy from behind a screen.

The team is one of the worst defensive teams in the league now with personnel that may or may not warrant that. It's the coaches liability, and if the season ended now Karl would most likely not be back IMO

I hope it gets better but many fans feel that the fundamental issues won't quickly be resolved

benchmobbin02 · Post #19 » by **benchmobbin02** » Sat Nov 28, 2015 7:22 am

Thank you.

SacKingZZZ · Post #20 » by **SacKingZZZ** » Sat Nov 28, 2015 8:40 pm

benchmobbin02 wrote:Just get on with it and blame Karl...it's clear that's where you're going with this like with all you're arguments. You try to be subtle and word it differently. It's old. You bring up scenarios that can just as well be attributed to the player or the superior skill of the opposition attacking. But we get it, you think your a better coach then Karl haha. It's really easy from behind a screen.

And you fail to acknowledge anything written other than criticism (mostly constructive might I add) and try to act like some white knight coming to the aid of the damsel in distress because you're the only "true fan", and trust me, it's just as old. This is a board to discuss many of the things being discussed, if you take it personally I suggest getting thicker skin or finding a more lighthearted board for conversation. If you don't like reading what's written don't read it, we really don't need to go into the cycle "I'm a better fan than you" and "I BELIEVE!" garbage. I get it, you're a better fan than us. But just for the record, why don't you venture back into the "Starting lineup" thread and read some of my posts again and then look around at the situation.

And apparently more than a few others from behind a screen are seeing the same thing I am. There is something to be said for sticking to your guns, but there is also something to be said for making adjustments when needed. That's what great coaches do, we'll see if that happens or not. I'm sure the clock is ticking louder at the moment for all involved. I think the can be much better than this and really hope he makes some much needed adjustments rather than what is looking more and more like superstars covering for what is a flawed system.