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Celtic fan here and I come in peace.

The celts need help at the frontcourt, and the kings need to get younger and don't have much in the way of picks coming over the next few years, I think the kings made a stupid move with Koufos considering the drafting of WCS. To me Koufos is a 12min a game player and a somewhat overpaid at 8+ but the cap is going up so that is less of a value drag.

What would it take to acquire Gay (to back up Crowder) and Koufos (to back up Ezili/?), Losing Gay also has the benefit of insuring a lower lottery pick next year and it not conveying to the bulls. Jerembko and Amir johnson for cap purposes would balance the trade out and provide value if you wish to exercise thier options , but what kids or choices would the kings need? I was thinking Olynk and Hunter. Olynk will provide some spacing for Cousins with his outside game and his defensive shortcomings will be masked by either WCS or Cousins in the post. Hunter along with Collision will give shooting at the 2, with Ben in his walk year. The Celts can part with Olynyk as Bender would most likely be the choice at #3. The celts probably keep Turner and his playing keeps Hunter on the bench.

Give us Bradley and a good pick and you have yourself a deal!

I like Olynyk and Johnson and don't think Gay and Koufos have much of a future in Sac. I'd do Gay and Koufos for Olynyk, Johnson and Jerebko. Could work out really well for Kings if Vlade can dump Belli and sign a quality wing and Marvin Williams.

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SacTown916 wrote:Give us Bradley and a good pick and you have yourself a deal!

Bradley at 8mill a year is worth more than both players making 26mill. I was being serious with a trade proposal asking For Bradley and another 1st certainly is not. In the trade thread, King fans seem to attach almost a negative value to Kofuos At 8 mill per year and Gay is going to be 30 and making 19mill.

patman52 wrote:

SacTown916 wrote:Give us Bradley and a good pick and you have yourself a deal!

Bradley at 8mill a year is worth more than both players making 26mill. I was being serious with a trade proposal asking For Bradley and another 1st certainly is not. In the trade thread, King fans seem to attach almost a negative value to Kofuos At 8 mill per year and Gay is going to be 30 and making 19mill.

Koufos is just a bad fit on the Kings. 8M for a backup big isn't bad, especially under the new cap. And Gay will make 13M in 17 and 14M in 18 (player option).

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SactoKingsFan wrote:I like Olynyk and Johnson and don't think Gay and Koufos have much of a future in Sac. I'd do Gay and Koufos for Olynyk, Johnson and Jerebko. Could work out really well for Kings if Vlade can dump Belli and sign a quality wing and Marvin Williams.

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I thought the trade made sense for both teams, The celts take on a lot of cap but combine 4 assets into 2 and it is something I hope the Celts visit if they are successful in getting Hotford and Ezili in FA.

SactoKingsFan wrote:

patman52 wrote:

SacTown916 wrote:Give us Bradley and a good pick and you have yourself a deal!

Bradley at 8mill a year is worth more than both players making 26mill. I was being serious with a trade proposal asking For Bradley and another 1st certainly is not. In the trade thread, King fans seem to attach almost a negative value to Kofuos At 8 mill per year and Gay is going to be 30 and making 19mill.

Koufos is just a bad fit on the Kings. 8M for a backup big isn't bad, especially under the new cap. And Gay will make 13M in 17 and 14M in 18 (player option).

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Even better from my end money wise, I don't think Gay would opt out at 32YO, but maybe Ainge can get him to remove the option or decline it early. I don't know if they would want to move on from Olynyk for just one year of Gay and take on the 8 milll from Koufos.

patman52 wrote:

SactoKingsFan wrote:

patman52 wrote:
Bradley at 8mill a year is worth more than both players making 26mill. I was being serious with a trade proposal asking For Bradley and another 1st certainly is not. In the trade thread, King fans seem to attach almost a negative value to Kofuos At 8 mill per year and Gay is going to be 30 and making 19mill.

Koufos is just a bad fit on the Kings. 8M for a backup big isn't bad, especially under the new cap. And Gay will make 13M in 17 and 14M in 18 (player option).

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Even better from my end money wise, I don't think Gay would opt out at 32YO, but maybe Ainge can get him to remove the option or decline it early. I don't know if they would want to move on from Olynyk for just one year of Gay and take on the 8 milll from Koufos.

But trading Bradley would be out of the question as he would be needed for any Butler trade.

The Kings don't need to get younger, they need the right fit and the right system, while the C's need more experienced talent. A trade based around Gay for Bradley seems logical in terms of value. Koufos would automatically be the most productive true big on the C's if they didn't land anyone better. I guess it would depend on how they valued that.

As for the C's spare parts, it wouldn't even be considered by the Kings unless they were able to automatically turn that space into a player of need and needed the deal, so that would be super contingent on another deal going down. The playoffs proved that the C's need a boost in talent on the wing so Gay would be a solid fit. But giving away Gay without guarantees otherwise by the Kings is fairly unlikely. Gay is the 2nd option for Sacramento so the Kings would have to get something directly that at least comes close to that.

Both are probably available.

It's tough to move Rudy because we need his scoring, and ability to create his own shot. Not likely to get equal talent back, nor do we want to go younger here.

KK contract is fine, it isn't a bad contract. We'd move him for salary reasons if we find something we like in FA or perhaps for the piece we are looking for.

McLemore should be available as well.

I don't see a deal with Boston though, not much desirable in a lateral deal.

patman52 wrote:Celtic fan here and I come in peace.

The celts need help at the frontcourt, and the kings need to get younger and don't have much in the way of picks coming over the next few years, I think the kings made a stupid move with Koufos considering the drafting of WCS. To me Koufos is a 12min a game player and a somewhat overpaid at 8+ but the cap is going up so that is less of a value drag.

What would it take to acquire Gay (to back up Crowder) and Koufos (to back up Ezili/?), Losing Gay also has the benefit of insuring a lower lottery pick next year and it not conveying to the bulls. Jerembko and Amir johnson for cap purposes would balance the trade out and provide value if you wish to exercise thier options , but what kids or choices would the kings need? I was thinking Olynk and Hunter. Olynk will provide some spacing for Cousins with his outside game and his defensive shortcomings will be masked by either WCS or Cousins in the post. Hunter along with Collision will give shooting at the 2, with Ben in his walk year. The Celts can part with Olynyk as Bender would most likely be the choice at #3. The celts probably keep Turner and his playing keeps Hunter on the bench.

Olynyk and Hunter don't get that done.

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The problem I see for the C's this summer is that the only tangible things they have to deal with definite value are the high draft pick, Bradley, and maybe some of the young talent they'd rather not deal anyway. Cap space to absorb salary might not be super valuable this summer unfortunately. If a team needs a salary dump to sign someone else that's something but the value there is always sketchy and beggars can't be choosers in that scenario so you can't expect a great player in return. Plus, there are like 25 other teams that can do the same basic deal for that team.

Is there anything about Bradley being a main cog for Butler? I can't see that being realistic. The Bulls would ask for that lotto pick with him and the C's would be stupid to do that if it ends up in the top 3.

If the Kings were guaranteed to be able to say add Crabbe or Hill, AND Ryan Anderson this summer I'd be down with a Gay/Koufos trade to the C's for space and Olynyk. But if the Kings ended up not getting any of those 3 that would be so oops worthy it's not even funny. Worse than the empty bag of Belinelli they ended up with last year at the cost of that Philly deal.

SacKingZZZ wrote:The problem I see for the C's this summer is that the only tangible things they have to deal with definite value are the high draft pick, Bradley, and maybe some of the young talent they'd rather not deal anyway. Cap space to absorb salary might not be super valuable this summer unfortunately. If a team needs a salary dump to sign someone else that's something but the value there is always sketchy and beggars can't be choosers in that scenario so you can't expect a great player in return. Plus, there are like 25 other teams that can do the same basic deal for that team.

Is there anything about Bradley being a main cog for Butler? I can't see that being realistic. The Bulls would ask for that lotto pick with him and the C's would be stupid to do that if it ends up in the top 3.

If the Kings were guaranteed to be able to say add Crabbe or Hill, AND Ryan Anderson this summer I'd be down with a Gay/Koufos trade to the C's for space and Olynyk. But if the Kings ended up not getting any of those 3 that would be so oops worthy it's not even funny. Worse than the empty bag of Belinelli they ended up with last year at the cost of that Philly deal.

As far as being able to dump salary, you are right there should not be an issue this summer. But I am not looking to get a great player just a couple of guys who would play a role on the team.

Bradley would need to go to Chicago as part of any deal with the Bulls. I don't know what you mean by a main cog but he would be part of a package that will include the #3, the 22nd and probably a couple of 2nds this year they can use for stashes. I guess there is not a fit and each team would have to look elsewhere. Cole Aldrich may be a guy to go back to the celts.

patman52 wrote:

SacKingZZZ wrote:The problem I see for the C's this summer is that the only tangible things they have to deal with definite value are the high draft pick, Bradley, and maybe some of the young talent they'd rather not deal anyway. Cap space to absorb salary might not be super valuable this summer unfortunately. If a team needs a salary dump to sign someone else that's something but the value there is always sketchy and beggars can't be choosers in that scenario so you can't expect a great player in return. Plus, there are like 25 other teams that can do the same basic deal for that team.

Is there anything about Bradley being a main cog for Butler? I can't see that being realistic. The Bulls would ask for that lotto pick with him and the C's would be stupid to do that if it ends up in the top 3.

If the Kings were guaranteed to be able to say add Crabbe or Hill, AND Ryan Anderson this summer I'd be down with a Gay/Koufos trade to the C's for space and Olynyk. But if the Kings ended up not getting any of those 3 that would be so oops worthy it's not even funny. Worse than the empty bag of Belinelli they ended up with last year at the cost of that Philly deal.

As far as being able to dump salary, you are right there should not be an issue this summer. But I am not looking to get a great player just a couple of guys who would play a role on the team.

Bradley would need to go to Chicago as part of any deal with the Bulls. I don't know what you mean by a main cog but he would be part of a package that will include the #3, the 22nd and probably a couple of 2nds this year they can use for stashes. I guess there is not a fit and each team would have to look elsewhere. Cole Aldrich may be a guy to go back to the celts.

Main cog means Bradley is the key piece they get but if it's with the pick than that's an overpay for Butler IMO. Butler isn't a sure fire #1 option IMO. Not that keeping the pick and Bradley makes the C's much better since they are trying to win now and this draft kind of blows but still. And if Chicago deals Butler I think they'd be looking at a rebuild situation.

If the C's were looking for an offseason that netted them both Gay and Butler maybe a 3 team deal would be realistic. Something where the Kings send their pick to Chicago instead, finally, and the Kings get Bradley, some youth, and some space in the process.

Butler is not a #1 option, but if he is onboard along with Crowder, Smart, IT and Gay it will be a lot easier to sell Horford and Ezili on the Celts. The Celts main needs were Bigs and more scoring, Gay and Butler add the wing scoring, Horford and Ezili the interior defense.

What makes Butler more valuable is that he is signed for 3 years for what is now reasonable money. The Celts would still have the 17 and 18 BKN picks, Memphis's '18 or 19 with an old Casol, Randolph, Allen core. You are right that Chi may flip Bradley some Celtic fans feel he would go to the bucks for the 10th.

While playing for Mike Malone, Rudy was 21p (.560TS%) + 6r + 3.5a per 36 minutes type of player, who was engaged on defense. Since Mike was gone, Gay was just chilling, looking like Toronto version of himself. If Joerger can make him buy in to play power style again and get him easier shots, Rudy is the clear-cut Kings' 2nd option again. You can't get him for a marginal prospect and cap space.
Joerger managed to squeeze positive impact from lineups, that had Koufos and MGasol/Randolf just a season before. Given the fact, that Joerger asked for permission to talk to Kings, and how quickly their dialogue progressed, I suspect, that both sides exchanged ideas beforehand, and Kosta seems to be a natural intermediary. I believe, he will be perceived as having some, even if marginal, value by Kings coming into this off-season.

With joerger coming I doubt either of these two are dealt in the offseason. They both have experience playing for him.


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patman52 wrote:

SacTown916 wrote:Give us Bradley and a good pick and you have yourself a deal!

Bradley at 8mill a year is worth more than both players making 26mill. I was being serious with a trade proposal asking For Bradley and another 1st certainly is not. In the trade thread, King fans seem to attach almost a negative value to Kofuos At 8 mill per year and Gay is going to be 30 and making 19mill.

Thats rich... You offer us spare parts for Rudy Gay and Koufos and then he counters and you say its not a serious offer? If we are dealing Gay I would first and foremost ask Jae Crowder, Boston would decline rightfully so. I would settle for Bradley or Smart and Amir for Gay and Koufos. If you don't like the value I suggest you look elsewhere for a career 19/6 guy on decent efficiency.

RipPizzaGuy wrote:

patman52 wrote:

SacTown916 wrote:Give us Bradley and a good pick and you have yourself a deal!

Bradley at 8mill a year is worth more than both players making 26mill. I was being serious with a trade proposal asking For Bradley and another 1st certainly is not. In the trade thread, King fans seem to attach almost a negative value to Kofuos At 8 mill per year and Gay is going to be 30 and making 19mill.

Thats rich... You offer us spare parts for Rudy Gay and Koufos and then he counters and you say its not a serious offer? If we are dealing Gay I would first and foremost ask Jae Crowder, Boston would decline rightfully so. I would settle for Bradley or Smart and Amir for Gay and Koufos. If you don't like the value I suggest you look elsewhere for a career 19/6 guy on decent efficiency.

Edit.

I take it back.

Gay and Koufus have more value than Olynyk. I'd want Bradley as well in any trade for Gay

jeffjtk1234 wrote:With joerger coming I doubt either of these two are dealt in the offseason. They both have experience playing for him.


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I was curious about this... I wasn't exactly sure if he was around with Gay but I knew Koufos. Hopefully his old feelings don't stop him from making the best move possible. I am all for trading Koufos but with that said he was certainly helpful when Cuz went down this past year and he brings value to the team, I just prefer getting a stretch 4 and bringing back Acy.