Rate our roster

[GlenRiceARoni]

Its not the worst rebuild if skal and fox pan out. Certainly couldve gone much better if theyd traded cousins earlier when it was apparent the team was going nowhere.

The trade with philly really hurts still obviously. I dont see the kings in playoff contention for the next 3-4 seasons so its way too early to tell what youve got

"Get Out the Way, Let the Real F. Ballas thru" - Juvenile

[madskillz8]

What I see from this thread is I am the only one who have high expectations from Papagiannis. I have almost watched every post-AllStar game and going to make the following evaluation on him:

*Understands the game well. A great pick-n-roll player, sets great screens and doing the right thing based on play, roll or pop.
*Has the smoothest J that I see from big men after Nowitzki, Okur and Bosh. His shoot has a great arc and never hits the rim. I think he can easily stretch it to 3.
*Effective post plays, he can find an open player when he drives the basket after post up while his right hook is really good. High arching and if he hits the rim it goes in with an high percentage.
*Good instincts as a shoot blocker. And he's 7'2.

On the other hand,
*he has a very bad conditioning (that's the easiest thing to improve), he's a bit slow because of his weight I think.
*questionable pick&roll and post defender against NBA bigs, but that's something new for him, and we will see if he can adjust.

I think he is going to be a great role player as a center soon.

[codydaze]

What I see from this thread is I am the only one who have high expectations from Papagiannis. I have almost watched every post-AllStar game and going to make the following evaluation on him:

*Understands the game well. A great pick-n-roll player, sets great screens and doing the right thing based on play, roll or pop.
*Has the smoothest J that I see from big men after Nowitzki, Okur and Bosh. His shoot has a great arc and never hits the rim. I think he can easily stretch it to 3.
*Effective post plays, he can find an open player when he drives the basket after post up while his right hook is really good. High arching and if he hits the rim it goes in with an high percentage.
*Good instincts as a shoot blocker. And he's 7'2.

On the other hand,
*he has a very bad conditioning (that's the easiest thing to improve), has slow feet mainly because of his weight I think.
*questionable pick&roll and post defender against NBA bigs, but that's something new for him, and we will see if he can adjust.

I think he is going to be a great role player as a center soon.

I've seen the same things as you since last summer league, he's got solid fundamentals and understanding of the game, though it still seems the NBA game is a little fast for him which is understood for a 19 year old. There are definitely things he needs to improve on though, conditioning being a big one. I don't know how many times I saw him fall for pump fake after pump fake though and he also needs to improve on being able to use both hands on the block. Saw a lot of right handed hooks, he'll need to get more comfortable going left as well.

[sacking123]

What I see from this thread is I am the only one who have high expectations from Papagiannis. I have almost watched every post-AllStar game and going to make the following evaluation on him:

*Understands the game well. A great pick-n-roll player, sets great screens and doing the right thing based on play, roll or pop.
*Has the smoothest J that I see from big men after Nowitzki, Okur and Bosh. His shoot has a great arc and never hits the rim. I think he can easily stretch it to 3.
*Effective post plays, he can find an open player when he drives the basket after post up while his right hook is really good. High arching and if he hits the rim it goes in with an high percentage.
*Good instincts as a shoot blocker. And he's 7'2.

On the other hand,
*he has a very bad conditioning (that's the easiest thing to improve), he's a bit slow because of his weight I think.
*questionable pick&roll and post defender against NBA bigs, but that's something new for him, and we will see if he can adjust.

I think he is going to be a great role player as a center soon.

I wouldn't say your the only one. However if your saying this coming season maybe you are. I'm super high on him, but I know he is going to be a 4-6 year guy. That is how long it's going to take him. Bigs develop a little slower and I fully expect it to take until year 4 until we truly know if he is going to be great.
Your pro's and con's are good.
I think he improved on his conditioning last season alone which is good so it will be interesting to see how he is this season. I would like to see some improvement there.
The thing that I noticed more than anything in the D League last season was these jump hooks way too far away from the basket.
I'm hoping its just a case of the coaching staff working on a new move with him and he is out there trying it no matter what.
Also he let's too many rebounds go by. He needs to get a little nastier on the boards and go for every rebound instead of letting other players go by him and grab them.

[VeganKingsFan]

My list and why. No one on the Kings is approaching all star status at this point:

Fox - elite speed and quickness. Can he shoot well enough to use it.

Hield - can he shoot with the same percentage as he did at the end of the season. Teams were tanking. Can he do it when it matters. Can he improve his handle.
Bogdan- just a year older than buddy. Great length. Guarded the other teams best player. Can he get his shot off in NBA. Touches as high as Jackson.
Skal - needs to be a 3-4. No frame to add weight. Can he improve his handle and hit the three with consistency.

To me the three guys above are the key. Especially Skal and Bogdan. If the can progress and allow the Kings to swing them 3-4 and 2-3 depending on matchups.

Jackson - average athlete and length for his position. Not able to swing to 4 or 2. Needs to show he can get shot off
Giles - who knows with his knees. At one point would be up with Fox.

Willie - at 66% free throw shooting and no threes WCS is pretty limited offensively and hasn't improved much. And with just 5 boards per game doesn't do much there either and again showed no improvement from year 1 to 2. Ultimately think he is a back-up 4.
Mason- like his heart and fact he improved each year. If can shoot 50% from 3 could pair nicely with Bogdan off the ball. Tough playing D against bigger guards.
Papa - 85% free throw shooting and 4 boards a game in limited minutes is encouraging. Big Body who sets great screens. Athleticism a question.

If you watched the games near the end of the year, you can tell Willie improved his moves and touch offensively and also rebounded well. Frank Mason doesn't have to shoot 50% from 3 to be valuable. Nobody shoots 50% from 3. I don't really think Papa's athleticism is a question, just if he can get into great shape. His athleticism is pretty good, especially for his size. Just ask his teammates. I highly disagree with Skal needing to be a 3-4 and that he doesn't have the frame to add weight. He has a good frame, and that's something that has been widely conjectured. The rest I mostly agree with lol

[Sactowndog]

My list and why. No one on the Kings is approaching all star status at this point:

Fox - elite speed and quickness. Can he shoot well enough to use it.

Hield - can he shoot with the same percentage as he did at the end of the season. Teams were tanking. Can he do it when it matters. Can he improve his handle.
Bogdan- just a year older than buddy. Great length. Guarded the other teams best player. Can he get his shot off in NBA. Touches as high as Jackson.
Skal - needs to be a 3-4. No frame to add weight. Can he improve his handle and hit the three with consistency.

To me the three guys above are the key. Especially Skal and Bogdan. If the can progress and allow the Kings to swing them 3-4 and 2-3 depending on matchups.

Jackson - average athlete and length for his position. Not able to swing to 4 or 2. Needs to show he can get shot off
Giles - who knows with his knees. At one point would be up with Fox.

Willie - at 66% free throw shooting and no threes WCS is pretty limited offensively and hasn't improved much. And with just 5 boards per game doesn't do much there either and again showed no improvement from year 1 to 2. Ultimately think he is a back-up 4.
Mason- like his heart and fact he improved each year. If can shoot 50% from 3 could pair nicely with Bogdan off the ball. Tough playing D against bigger guards.
Papa - 85% free throw shooting and 4 boards a game in limited minutes is encouraging. Big Body who sets great screens. Athleticism a question.

If you watched the games near the end of the year, you can tell Willie improved his moves and touch offensively and also rebounded well. Frank Mason doesn't have to shoot 50% from 3 to be valuable. Nobody shoots 50% from 3. I don't really think Papa's athleticism is a question, just if he can get into great shape. His athleticism is pretty good, especially for his size. Just ask his teammates. I highly disagree with Skal needing to be a 3-4 and that he doesn't have the frame to add weight. He has a good frame, and that's something that has been widely conjectured. The rest I mostly agree with lol

I agree Mason doesn't have to shoot 50% from three. I think a Bogdan Mason pairing could be interesting if Bogdan improves his handle.

I think you have to be careful judging games where other teams are tanking. Willie needs to show more.

Look at pictures of Skal. Think he could be a very good player but his frame just doesn't support adding much weight. If he can become a swing 3-4 he would be a huge asset for the kings.

[benchmobbin02]

Look at pictures of Skal. Think he could be a very good player but his frame just doesn't support adding much weight. If he can become a swing 3-4 he would be a huge asset for the kings.

As someone that has worked in the field I can tell you that you are very wrong. His frame is more than adequate to add weight. I don't even think it's a question. Now whether he SHOULD or he just needs to add in his core or lower body or add to strength without much weight difference are valid questions that can only be answered by someone that is working with him at improving his physique and performance.

[sacking123]

My list and why. No one on the Kings is approaching all star status at this point:

Fox - elite speed and quickness. Can he shoot well enough to use it.

Hield - can he shoot with the same percentage as he did at the end of the season. Teams were tanking. Can he do it when it matters. Can he improve his handle.
Bogdan- just a year older than buddy. Great length. Guarded the other teams best player. Can he get his shot off in NBA. Touches as high as Jackson.
Skal - needs to be a 3-4. No frame to add weight. Can he improve his handle and hit the three with consistency.

To me the three guys above are the key. Especially Skal and Bogdan. If the can progress and allow the Kings to swing them 3-4 and 2-3 depending on matchups.

Jackson - average athlete and length for his position. Not able to swing to 4 or 2. Needs to show he can get shot off
Giles - who knows with his knees. At one point would be up with Fox.

Willie - at 66% free throw shooting and no threes WCS is pretty limited offensively and hasn't improved much. And with just 5 boards per game doesn't do much there either and again showed no improvement from year 1 to 2. Ultimately think he is a back-up 4.
Mason- like his heart and fact he improved each year. If can shoot 50% from 3 could pair nicely with Bogdan off the ball. Tough playing D against bigger guards.
Papa - 85% free throw shooting and 4 boards a game in limited minutes is encouraging. Big Body who sets great screens. Athleticism a question.

If you watched the games near the end of the year, you can tell Willie improved his moves and touch offensively and also rebounded well. Frank Mason doesn't have to shoot 50% from 3 to be valuable. Nobody shoots 50% from 3. I don't really think Papa's athleticism is a question, just if he can get into great shape. His athleticism is pretty good, especially for his size. Just ask his teammates. I highly disagree with Skal needing to be a 3-4 and that he doesn't have the frame to add weight. He has a good frame, and that's something that has been widely conjectured. The rest I mostly agree with lol

Very good post. In regards to Willie, and I touched on a similar thing with Papa. This coaching staff is using things like SL, pre season and D League to really improve guys.
Remember last SL (I think?) when it almost looked like Willie was being forced to do things on offence that didn't come natural to him. I believe this is what our coaching staff is finally doing (I know it sounds so basic and all, but it isn't/hasn't been).
Skal is going to be amazing, you have people saying he is going to be a 5 when he develops and some saying he needs to be a 3. Hey, why not all 3.


Sent from my iPad using RealGM mobile app

[SacKingZZZ]

My list and why. No one on the Kings is approaching all star status at this point:

Fox - elite speed and quickness. Can he shoot well enough to use it.

Hield - can he shoot with the same percentage as he did at the end of the season. Teams were tanking. Can he do it when it matters. Can he improve his handle.
Bogdan- just a year older than buddy. Great length. Guarded the other teams best player. Can he get his shot off in NBA. Touches as high as Jackson.
Skal - needs to be a 3-4. No frame to add weight. Can he improve his handle and hit the three with consistency.

To me the three guys above are the key. Especially Skal and Bogdan. If the can progress and allow the Kings to swing them 3-4 and 2-3 depending on matchups.

Jackson - average athlete and length for his position. Not able to swing to 4 or 2. Needs to show he can get shot off
Giles - who knows with his knees. At one point would be up with Fox.

Willie - at 66% free throw shooting and no threes WCS is pretty limited offensively and hasn't improved much. And with just 5 boards per game doesn't do much there either and again showed no improvement from year 1 to 2. Ultimately think he is a back-up 4.
Mason- like his heart and fact he improved each year. If can shoot 50% from 3 could pair nicely with Bogdan off the ball. Tough playing D against bigger guards.
Papa - 85% free throw shooting and 4 boards a game in limited minutes is encouraging. Big Body who sets great screens. Athleticism a question.

If you watched the games near the end of the year, you can tell Willie improved his moves and touch offensively and also rebounded well. Frank Mason doesn't have to shoot 50% from 3 to be valuable. Nobody shoots 50% from 3. I don't really think Papa's athleticism is a question, just if he can get into great shape. His athleticism is pretty good, especially for his size. Just ask his teammates. I highly disagree with Skal needing to be a 3-4 and that he doesn't have the frame to add weight. He has a good frame, and that's something that has been widely conjectured. The rest I mostly agree with lol

I agree Mason doesn't have to shoot 50% from three. I think a Bogdan Mason pairing could be interesting if Bogdan improves his handle.

I think you have to be careful judging games where other teams are tanking. Willie needs to show more.

Look at pictures of Skal. Think he could be a very good player but his frame just doesn't support adding much weight. If he can become a swing 3-4 he would be a huge asset for the kings.

Skal is definitely on the narrow side, just like Justin Jackson. Skal is obviously more built. Skal should be OK at the 4. He'll never be real heavy I would imagine so strength will be key for him.

[Sactowndog]

If you watched the games near the end of the year, you can tell Willie improved his moves and touch offensively and also rebounded well. Frank Mason doesn't have to shoot 50% from 3 to be valuable. Nobody shoots 50% from 3. I don't really think Papa's athleticism is a question, just if he can get into great shape. His athleticism is pretty good, especially for his size. Just ask his teammates. I highly disagree with Skal needing to be a 3-4 and that he doesn't have the frame to add weight. He has a good frame, and that's something that has been widely conjectured. The rest I mostly agree with lol

I agree Mason doesn't have to shoot 50% from three. I think a Bogdan Mason pairing could be interesting if Bogdan improves his handle.

I think you have to be careful judging games where other teams are tanking. Willie needs to show more.

Look at pictures of Skal. Think he could be a very good player but his frame just doesn't support adding much weight. If he can become a swing 3-4 he would be a huge asset for the kings.

Skal is definitely on the narrow side, just like Justin Jackson. Skal is obviously more built. Skal should be OK at the 4. He'll never be real heavy I would imagine so strength will be key for him.

Yep and small circumference ankles and wrists. I think the key will be his handle. He's not going to win a strength battle with guys 50 lbs heavier than him so he needs to take them on the perimeter and either shot over then or blow by them. He needs a better handle to do that. We want to see dribble penetration from him this summer.

[benchmobbin02]

I agree Mason doesn't have to shoot 50% from three. I think a Bogdan Mason pairing could be interesting if Bogdan improves his handle.

I think you have to be careful judging games where other teams are tanking. Willie needs to show more.

Look at pictures of Skal. Think he could be a very good player but his frame just doesn't support adding much weight. If he can become a swing 3-4 he would be a huge asset for the kings.

Skal is definitely on the narrow side, just like Justin Jackson. Skal is obviously more built. Skal should be OK at the 4. He'll never be real heavy I would imagine so strength will be key for him.

Yep and small circumference ankles and wrists. I think the key will be his handle. He's not going to win a strength battle with guys 50 lbs heavier than him so he needs to take them on the perimeter and either shot over then or blow by them. He needs a better handle to do that. We want to see dribble penetration from him this summer.

Are you really going at his ankles and wrist? Has little bearing in adding functional weight and strength if done right under the guidance of a pro.

I can easily see him adding 15-20 lbs to go from 215 to 230 in the next 2 yrs.

[Sactowndog]

Skal is definitely on the narrow side, just like Justin Jackson. Skal is obviously more built. Skal should be OK at the 4. He'll never be real heavy I would imagine so strength will be key for him.

Yep and small circumference ankles and wrists. I think the key will be his handle. He's not going to win a strength battle with guys 50 lbs heavier than him so he needs to take them on the perimeter and either shot over then or blow by them. He needs a better handle to do that. We want to see dribble penetration from him this summer.

Are you really going at his ankles and wrist? Has little bearing in adding functional weight and strength if done right under the guidance of a pro.

I can easily see him adding 15-20 lbs to go from 215 to 230 in the next 2 yrs.

It's an indication of frame size and the ability to add and put on weight/muscle mass. Wrist and ankle circumference, shoulder width, hip width all indicate the skeletal frame on which the muscles (bulk) attach.

It's by no means a criticism of Skal but more an indication of where is best potential path might lie. He doesn't appear to have the frame to add much bulk. Yes he might add 10-15 pounds in the next two years but by comparison Giles is already 240 at 19. Skal will struggle to add much more good weight than that because he doesn't have the frame to support it.

The more skill he can add to be able to swing 3-4 the better player he will be. We should look to see more dribble penetration and perimeter skills from him.

[benchmobbin02]

Yep and small circumference ankles and wrists. I think the key will be his handle. He's not going to win a strength battle with guys 50 lbs heavier than him so he needs to take them on the perimeter and either shot over then or blow by them. He needs a better handle to do that. We want to see dribble penetration from him this summer.

Are you really going at his ankles and wrist? Has little bearing in adding functional weight and strength if done right under the guidance of a pro.

I can easily see him adding 15-20 lbs to go from 215 to 230 in the next 2 yrs.

It's an indication of frame size and the ability to add and put on weight/muscle mass. Wrist and ankle circumference, shoulder width, hip width all indicate the skeletal frame on which the muscles (bulk) attach.

It's by no means a criticism of Skal but more an indication of where is best potential path might lie. He doesn't appear to have the frame to add much bulk. Yes he might add 10-15 pounds in the next two years but by comparison Giles is already 240 at 19. Skal will struggle to add much more good weight than that because he doesn't have the frame to support it.

The more skill he can add to be able to swing 3-4 the better player he will be. We should look to see more dribble penetration and perimeter skills from him.

That thinking is very old school in the field. You can add bulk and strength to just about any frame these days. And yes he can add 15 to 20 lbs, which is "much weight" in any sense of the phrase, which was my point. I have witnessed incredible transformations when someone is dedicated and young, no matter the frame. With Skal, he can still add that weight and those skills and be very effective on the perimeter plus have the weight to bang more in the key and on the boards.

I don't think you seem to grasp that long frames even if they are slender can retain significantly more bulk than many think and still be agile and fast. The weight is added overall but the core and upper legs would be highlighted increase explosion, balance and durability in the paint.

[GlenRiceARoni]

Skal is definitely on the narrow side, just like Justin Jackson. Skal is obviously more built. Skal should be OK at the 4. He'll never be real heavy I would imagine so strength will be key for him.

Yep and small circumference ankles and wrists. I think the key will be his handle. He's not going to win a strength battle with guys 50 lbs heavier than him so he needs to take them on the perimeter and either shot over then or blow by them. He needs a better handle to do that. We want to see dribble penetration from him this summer.

Are you really going at his ankles and wrist? Has little bearing in adding functional weight and strength if done right under the guidance of a pro.

I can easily see him adding 15-20 lbs to go from 215 to 230 in the next 2 yrs.

Huh? Ankles, wrist, and height are the three primary predictors of maximum lean muscle mass.

"Get Out the Way, Let the Real F. Ballas thru" - Juvenile

[benchmobbin02]

Yep and small circumference ankles and wrists. I think the key will be his handle. He's not going to win a strength battle with guys 50 lbs heavier than him so he needs to take them on the perimeter and either shot over then or blow by them. He needs a better handle to do that. We want to see dribble penetration from him this summer.

Are you really going at his ankles and wrist? Has little bearing in adding functional weight and strength if done right under the guidance of a pro.

I can easily see him adding 15-20 lbs to go from 215 to 230 in the next 2 yrs.

Huh? Ankles, wrist, and height are the three primary predictors of maximum lean muscle mass.

"Get Out the Way, Let the Real F. Ballas thru" - Juvenile

You didn't read my entire post or didn't apply what you read to your thought process before formulating a response.

With Skal frame there is plenty of room to add muscle mass and functional strength to compete at the position. Like I said going from 215 to around 230 is something I expect to see happen in his young career.

[baldur]

kings have a lot of youngsters to be excited about. they are one of the youngest teams in the league, with full of rookies and sophomores. they were so much younger before adding randolph, carter and hill, though. i think the development of harry giles and skal will play a key role in their future. both guys were being projected as top 5 picks before they dropped down to mid-late of 1st round due to injury-concerns in the respective drafts. if they will be able to live up to their preliminarily projected expectations, kings future will be so bright. you dont have to worry about so much losing 2019 draft pick, as the quality of your core will have been determined by then. you will have another top 5-6 pick this year which is considered another deep draft. So, by 2019 you will be able to start winning.

[Mitas]

I think the only thing the Kings are missing is a surefire Number 1 option (although plenty of teams can say the same thing). They have a very appealing group of young players at all positions on the court. I like the veteran signings: Zach Randolph and Vine Carter will hopefully instil some of that Memphis 'Grit 'n' Grind' into the Kings culture and George Hill is another player who should be a positive presence on and off the court. They're still 'bad' enough to be in the running for a top 5 pick next year, but even if they don't luck out and draft one of the top players next year, as long as they continue making smart moves then the future looks bright.

Player-wise, I think Hield, Fox, and Labissiere have the most potential to be building blocks, if not franchise players, but they have a bunch of intriguing players that could vault into that category over the next few years.

[enderwilson]

I think you have to be careful judging games where other teams are tanking. Willie needs to show more.

This has been used before as an argument against why our team looked so good at the end of the season, but this doesn't account for the fact that almost half our wins came against playoff teams fighting for position, or teams fighting for a playoff spot. We beat the Clippers, Memphis, and Denver. We lost to the Jazz by a single point. And beat Minnesota and I think Thibs and Joerger are similar in that they don't coach to tank.

[Sactowndog]

Are you really going at his ankles and wrist? Has little bearing in adding functional weight and strength if done right under the guidance of a pro.

I can easily see him adding 15-20 lbs to go from 215 to 230 in the next 2 yrs.

Huh? Ankles, wrist, and height are the three primary predictors of maximum lean muscle mass.

"Get Out the Way, Let the Real F. Ballas thru" - Juvenile

You didn't read my entire post or didn't apply what you read to your thought process before formulating a response.

With Skal frame there is plenty of room to add muscle mass and functional strength to compete at the position. Like I said going from 215 to around 230 is something I expect to see happen in his young career.

Had a conversation and agree he can get to 230 but to be a 4-5 he needs to be 240-250. Giles is 235 as an example.

[benchmobbin02]

Huh? Ankles, wrist, and height are the three primary predictors of maximum lean muscle mass.

"Get Out the Way, Let the Real F. Ballas thru" - Juvenile

You didn't read my entire post or didn't apply what you read to your thought process before formulating a response.

With Skal frame there is plenty of room to add muscle mass and functional strength to compete at the position. Like I said going from 215 to around 230 is something I expect to see happen in his young career.

Had a conversation and agree he can get to 230 but to be a 4-5 he needs to be 240-250. Giles is 235 as an example.

Not true at all. If you want, we can go back and forth sighting examples of guys who are doing the job at one weight or the other. Let's agree it's individual and save each other the trouble. I think that Skal can do a great job inside once he is more experienced and mature (physically and bball iq). I think ZBo will be a be influence on him.