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Is signing Hill good for Fox?

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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Is signing Hill good for Fox? 

Post#41 » by SactoKingsFan » Thu Jul 6, 2017 4:39 pm

SacKingZZZ wrote:
Diop wrote:
SacKingZZZ wrote:Like I said. What top 5 PG's didn't start.

Steve Nash, John Stockton, Mark Price.

So only great white guards I guess


We were talking top 5 draft picks.


Baron Davis and Deron Williams.

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Re: Is signing Hill good for Fox? 

Post#42 » by codydaze » Thu Jul 6, 2017 4:56 pm

jazanetti wrote:
blind prophet wrote:
jazanetti wrote:Hill is not the problem, he is good player and very good teammate. Problem is his 20 million contract in 2018-2019 and 2019-2020 (if it is guaranteed).


It would be a good idea to shop him next year if Fox looks like he is ready to go.

As long as Hill doesn't get hurt, we should be able to find a taker. Maybe that will be how we get a decent SF.

Thats what I'm trying to say. It would be difficult to move Hill if Fox would be better than him.


How does this make any sense? If a team were to trade for Hill it would be because they like Hill. Why in the world would they think, "well Fox is better than him so I'm not gonna trade for him." Like others have said, the third year is only partially guaranteed so this is essentially a 2 year deal at 19 million per year, very moveable as next season it's basically an expiring deal.

Even if we didn't trade Hill and kept him on the bench if Fox were ready to take the wheel, how is that a bad thing? Hill would be probably the best backup point in the whole league and just because he's making 19 million wouldn't hurt anything. His or Zbo's deal won't interfere with any extensions for the rooks so how exactly does it hurt?
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Re: Is signing Hill good for Fox? 

Post#43 » by dorkestra » Thu Jul 6, 2017 6:49 pm

DeAaron Fox
George Hill
Buddy Hield
Zach Randolph
Cauley-Stein

that's a great lineup
folks who quote what I wrote get choked
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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Is signing Hill good for Fox? 

Post#44 » by SacKingZZZ » Thu Jul 6, 2017 7:34 pm

SactoKingsFan wrote:
SacKingZZZ wrote:
Diop wrote:Steve Nash, John Stockton, Mark Price.

So only great white guards I guess


We were talking top 5 draft picks.


Baron Davis and Deron Williams.

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Williams eventually started more than he came from the bench. He had a really tough start to the year as well from the bench, same with Baron. Derons game from the bench vs. when he became a starter hopefully is far from how Fox looks in the same circumstance. If the Kings transition to him in that kind of time frame then it should be fine. There are a few examples here and there but it still remains atypical.
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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Is signing Hill good for Fox? 

Post#45 » by benchmobbin02 » Thu Jul 6, 2017 8:18 pm

SacKingZZZ wrote:
SactoKingsFan wrote:
SacKingZZZ wrote:
We were talking top 5 draft picks.


Baron Davis and Deron Williams.

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Williams eventually started more than he came from the bench. He had a really tough start to the year as well from the bench, same with Baron. Derons game from the bench vs. when he became a starter hopefully is far from how Fox looks in the same circumstance. If the Kings transition to him in that kind of time frame then it should be fine. There are a few examples here and there but it still remains atypical.


What is typical doesn't matter. What matters is what is best for Fox and the team and I trust the FO and coaching staff to know that better than us.
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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Is signing Hill good for Fox? 

Post#46 » by SacKingZZZ » Thu Jul 6, 2017 9:40 pm

benchmobbin02 wrote:
SacKingZZZ wrote:
SactoKingsFan wrote:
Baron Davis and Deron Williams.

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Williams eventually started more than he came from the bench. He had a really tough start to the year as well from the bench, same with Baron. Derons game from the bench vs. when he became a starter hopefully is far from how Fox looks in the same circumstance. If the Kings transition to him in that kind of time frame then it should be fine. There are a few examples here and there but it still remains atypical.


What is typical doesn't matter. What matters is what is best for Fox and the team and I trust the FO and coaching staff to know that better than us.


Me too. Hopefully there is a plan that everyone is in on, players included because that's been an issue for too long now.
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Re: RE: Re: Is signing Hill good for Fox? 

Post#47 » by Yao4REAL » Fri Jul 7, 2017 2:22 am

City of Trees wrote:
Russell Westbrook started off his career coming off the bench.

So did James Harden, Kawhi Leonard, Isaiah Thomas, Jimmy Butler, Giannis Antetokounmpo, Kyle Lowry, Paul George, Kemba Walker, Draymond Greene, Paul Millsap, Kevin Love, Gordon Hayward, De'Andre Jordan, and Klay Thompson.

Yes, over half of the 2017 NBA All-Star roster started off their careers coming off the bench. Let's not get dramatic with Fox doing the same.


The rebuild is in good shape.
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Yea but those guys are not project #1-5 pick.
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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Is signing Hill good for Fox? 

Post#48 » by City of Trees » Fri Jul 7, 2017 2:43 am

Yao4REAL wrote:
City of Trees wrote:
Russell Westbrook started off his career coming off the bench.

So did James Harden, Kawhi Leonard, Isaiah Thomas, Jimmy Butler, Giannis Antetokounmpo, Kyle Lowry, Paul George, Kemba Walker, Draymond Greene, Paul Millsap, Kevin Love, Gordon Hayward, De'Andre Jordan, and Klay Thompson.

Yes, over half of the 2017 NBA All-Star roster started off their careers coming off the bench. Let's not get dramatic with Fox doing the same.


The rebuild is in good shape.
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Yea but those guys are not project #1-5 pick.

So what is the argument here? Is it that young guys picked #1-#5 have to play right away or the rebuild won't work? Because that's not true.

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Re: RE: Re: Is signing Hill good for Fox? 

Post#49 » by benchmobbin02 » Fri Jul 7, 2017 2:43 am

Yao4REAL wrote:
City of Trees wrote:
Russell Westbrook started off his career coming off the bench.

So did James Harden, Kawhi Leonard, Isaiah Thomas, Jimmy Butler, Giannis Antetokounmpo, Kyle Lowry, Paul George, Kemba Walker, Draymond Greene, Paul Millsap, Kevin Love, Gordon Hayward, De'Andre Jordan, and Klay Thompson.

Yes, over half of the 2017 NBA All-Star roster started off their careers coming off the bench. Let's not get dramatic with Fox doing the same.


The rebuild is in good shape.
Sent from my SM-J700T using [url=http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=75835]RealGM mobile app


Yea but those guys are not project #1-5 pick.


What does the draft position have to do with it? Every draft is different. Guys that may have gone 2nd or 3rd one yr could be in the teens another. Each player and their situation should be judged individually.
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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Is signing Hill good for Fox? 

Post#50 » by SacKingZZZ » Fri Jul 7, 2017 7:06 pm

City of Trees wrote:
Yao4REAL wrote:
City of Trees wrote:
Russell Westbrook started off his career coming off the bench.

So did James Harden, Kawhi Leonard, Isaiah Thomas, Jimmy Butler, Giannis Antetokounmpo, Kyle Lowry, Paul George, Kemba Walker, Draymond Greene, Paul Millsap, Kevin Love, Gordon Hayward, De'Andre Jordan, and Klay Thompson.

Yes, over half of the 2017 NBA All-Star roster started off their careers coming off the bench. Let's not get dramatic with Fox doing the same.


The rebuild is in good shape.
Sent from my SM-J700T using RealGM mobile app


Yea but those guys are not project #1-5 pick.

So what is the argument here? Is it that young guys picked #1-#5 have to play right away or the rebuild won't work? Because that's not true.

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The argument was that it's atypical to do this, and it is. There is an entirely different value and expectation level associated with a high pick, vs a steal down low. If Skal were drafted number 1 instead of 28 the perceptions about him would most likely be entirely different. Those things effect value and so on. The Kings needs to be very concerned about that because it will effect where they go, or where the can go from here. It's all about timeline. If there is a basis for argument it's that when you wait too long to get the show on the road you may have done more bad than good whereas top 5 pick getting a chance to produce on a young non-winning team is far from unusual. We shall see how the timing works in all of this. If you could compare George Hill and Fox to a similar situation it would probably be the Lakers stuffing Loul Deng in front of Ingram last year. Now, Hill is obviously more valuable than Deng was but I watched the Lakers last year, that hindered Ingram to a degree and I think they waited about 20 games too long to finally put Ingram in more of a prominent role.
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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Is signing Hill good for Fox? 

Post#51 » by enderwilson » Fri Jul 7, 2017 7:17 pm

SacKingZZZ wrote:
City of Trees wrote:
Yao4REAL wrote:
Yea but those guys are not project #1-5 pick.

So what is the argument here? Is it that young guys picked #1-#5 have to play right away or the rebuild won't work? Because that's not true.

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I think the argument was that it's atypical to do this. And it is.


True. But what is typical is that most players picked 1-5 never truly reach their anticipated potential. And why is that? I have no clear answer, but perhaps it's the expectation that they're NBA ready from day one when in reality, they're not.

If Fox is ready, then perhaps he'll start over Hill. If not, he'll come off the bench. Either way, as a 19 year old, he has solid vets to help him reach his potential and minimize the frustration and intimidation of playing under basketball's brightest lights.
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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Is signing Hill good for Fox? 

Post#52 » by benchmobbin02 » Fri Jul 7, 2017 7:30 pm

enderwilson wrote:
SacKingZZZ wrote:
City of Trees wrote:So what is the argument here? Is it that young guys picked #1-#5 have to play right away or the rebuild won't work? Because that's not true.

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I think the argument was that it's atypical to do this. And it is.


True. But what is typical is that most players picked 1-5 never truly reach their anticipated potential. And why is that? I have no clear answer, but perhaps it's the expectation that they're NBA ready from day one when in reality, they're not.

If Fox is ready, then perhaps he'll start over Hill. If not, he'll come off the bench. Either way, as a 19 year old, he has solid vets to help him reach his potential and minimize the frustration and intimidation of playing under basketball's brightest lights.


Exactly! It isn't about him being a top 5 pick. it's about what is best for him as a player.
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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Is signing Hill good for Fox? 

Post#53 » by SacKingZZZ » Fri Jul 7, 2017 7:47 pm

enderwilson wrote:
SacKingZZZ wrote:
City of Trees wrote:So what is the argument here? Is it that young guys picked #1-#5 have to play right away or the rebuild won't work? Because that's not true.

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I think the argument was that it's atypical to do this. And it is.


True. But what is typical is that most players picked 1-5 never truly reach their anticipated potential. And why is that? I have no clear answer, but perhaps it's the expectation that they're NBA ready from day one when in reality, they're not.

If Fox is ready, then perhaps he'll start over Hill. If not, he'll come off the bench. Either way, as a 19 year old, he has solid vets to help him reach his potential and minimize the frustration and intimidation of playing under basketball's brightest lights.


Indeed, and it's because it depends on how lofty those expectations are. Sometimes players are compared to once in a ten to fifteen year player so the odds are against them anyway. Also, there are only so many opportunities for players to be put in a role to produce numbers, which a lot of the time is what prognosticators look at. You can't take someone, compare them to Kobe Bryant, and them proceed to give them 10 shots a game.

You can ask any player and I'd bet they'll tell you that nothing makes up for being on the floor, under those bright lights. I'm good with easing them in depending on the time line. It's the frustration and intimidation that will show the kind of players these guys are. The baby gloves just better not be on too tightly. If it even is baby gloves that is. This might be about winning games now, who knows. If it is I'm all for the experiment at the start, see where it goes. Again, just don't wait too long to switch gears because any games wasted is valuable on court development time gone. Young players learn by failing, but they have to have a chance to fail first. I'm not saying Joerger will do this, but we've seen coaches yank the young guys left and right for mistakes instead of allowing them to play through them and one by one we've watching Kings lottery picks fall by the wayside. That can work at the college level, but breeds contempt at the pro level if your team isn't winning anyway.

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