the lineup dilemma

mos_def · Post #1 » by **mos_def** » Fri Jul 7, 2017 10:35 pm

With the signing of Hill, and many assuming a starting spot this year based on his salary, does anyone see the possible problem the team will have with fit?

Hill - Fox
Heild - Carter
Bogdanovic - Richardson - Jackson
Skal - ZBo
WCS - Papa

If the lineup comes up like this or close, wouldn't pairing Fox (the fast player) with ZBo, Papa, and Vince Carter (the older vets) be counterproductive with pace and space. Fox will learn the sets in the half court, but the lineup doesn't bode well for Fox if they go into transition witht he mentioned players.

Post #2 » by **codydaze** » Fri Jul 7, 2017 10:51 pm

I've been assuming starts at the 3 with Bogdan off the bench and I'm also sure Fox will play plenty of minutes with the other young guys.

SacKingZZZ · Post #3 » by **SacKingZZZ** » Fri Jul 7, 2017 10:56 pm

I think we see Hill, Buddy, VC, Zbo, and Willie start at the beginning of this year. Both Buddy and Willie are a bit older and more experienced than the other young players so it's probably a solid squad to put around those two.

enderwilson · Post #4 » by **enderwilson** » Fri Jul 7, 2017 11:18 pm

SacKingZZZ wrote:I think we see Hill, Buddy, VC, Zbo, and Willie start at the beginning of this year. Both Buddy and Willie are a bit older and more experienced than the other young players so it's probably a solid squad to put around those two.

Fox/BB/Malachi/Skal/Papa coming off the bench will not have too many pace issues. WCS would fit better, but Papa's shown that he can hustle when necessary.

Post #5 » by **City of Trees** » Fri Jul 7, 2017 11:22 pm

I'll predict

Hill - Fox - Mason
Buddy - Bogdonavic - Temple
Carter - Richardson - Jackson
Skal - Randolph - Giles
Willie - Papa - Koufos

To answer your question, yes, if Fox runs with the vets it's counterproductive. He needs to get out and run.

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VeganKingsFan · Post #6 » by **VeganKingsFan** » Sat Jul 8, 2017 12:53 am

SacKingZZZ wrote:I think we see Hill, Buddy, VC, Zbo, and Willie start at the beginning of this year. Both Buddy and Willie are a bit older and more experienced than the other young players so it's probably a solid squad to put around those two.

Coach Joerger called Skal the starting power forward this year. That was before the Z-Bo signing, but I don't see him going back on his word. The rest I believe will be right.

VeganKingsFan · Post #7 » by **VeganKingsFan** » Sat Jul 8, 2017 1:02 am

I don't see Mason, Jackson or Giles in the rotation to start the season, but the other 12 players all have great cases to be in it. I'm intrigued to see who is in the rotation. Papa or Koufos? Malachi or Temple? It will probably be a 10 man rotation to start the season. My guess is: (minutes in parenthesis). The minutes are to start the season. Young players' minutes will go up as the season goes on.
PG: Hill(30) , Fox(18)
SG: Hield(30), Bogdanovic(18)
SF: Carter(24), Temple(24)
PF: Labissiere(28), Randolph(20)
C: Cauley-Stein(28), Koufos(20)

I see Richardson and Papagiannis overtaking Temple (or Carter if he isn't playing well) and Koufos, but the question is when. I don't really see Mason, Jackson and Giles playing with the big team until mid season, other than some spot call-ups. They will get some good development in with the G-League team.

benchmobbin02 · Post #8 » by **benchmobbin02** » Sat Jul 8, 2017 1:08 am

I'm not worried about fit at all because I think we will be changing lineups so much, not only starting but in games, that we'll get to see all the combos of guys working together.

Sactowndog · Post #9 » by **Sactowndog** » Sat Jul 8, 2017 11:08 pm

VeganKingsFan wrote:I don't see Mason, Jackson or Giles in the rotation to start the season, but the other 12 players all have great cases to be in it. I'm intrigued to see who is in the rotation. Papa or Koufos? Malachi or Temple? It will probably be a 10 man rotation to start the season. My guess is: (minutes in parenthesis). The minutes are to start the season. Young players' minutes will go up as the season goes on.
PG: Hill(30) , Fox(18)
SG: Hield(30), Bogdanovic(18)
SF: Carter(24), Temple(24)
PF: Labissiere(28), Randolph(20)
C: Cauley-Stein(28), Koufos(20)

I see Richardson and Papagiannis overtaking Temple (or Carter if he isn't playing well) and Koufos, but the question is when. I don't really see Mason, Jackson and Giles playing with the big team until mid season, other than some spot call-ups. They will get some good development in with the G-League team.

After watching Jackson I think he will be playing.

Post #10 » by **Wolfay** » Sat Jul 8, 2017 11:51 pm

They might start until at least the young guys adjust bit, but I don't think Hill and Z-Bo signed here expecting to play big minutes and win a lot games. If they did, they're in for a major letdown, but they (and Vivek) should hopefully be aware of the situation. This year is all about development and changing a franchise's culture.

enderwilson · Post #11 » by **enderwilson** » Sun Jul 9, 2017 1:20 am

Wolfay wrote:They might start until at least the young guys adjust bit, but I don't think Hill and Z-Bo signed here expecting to play big minutes and win a lot games. If they did, they're in for a major letdown, but they (and Vivek) should hopefully be aware of the situation. This year is all about development and changing a franchise's culture.

Yeah, I have a hard time believing that Zbo, VC, and Hill are so naive as to think we would be in playoff contention. They're experienced enough to see the true purpose of being signed to the team.

I think Hill signed because he misread the market by turning down a big payday with the Jazz and this was the next best offer to get paid to play while still dealing with a treasonous toe.
Zbo wanted to play with Joerger again. Wants to be a "big brother". And the King's are willing to show him respect by paying more than what other teams would.
And VC wants to play. He said it himself. And here he will get minutes. And like Zbo, he'll get more money than what other teams might offer. Plus he's back again with Joerger.

So in the end, I think there were plenty of selling points to bring them to Sac, other than to seek personal glory and chase a ring elsewhere.

sacking123 · Post #12 » by **sacking123** » Sun Jul 9, 2017 3:17 am

benchmobbin02 wrote:I'm not worried about fit at all because I think we will be changing lineups so much, not only starting but in games, that we'll get to see all the combos of guys working together.

If anyone thought substitution patterns and differing line ups frustrated them in years gone by they really need to get ready for this season.
I can see a lot of people on here getting frustrated this coming season. Joerger has the young guys ride the pine for parts of the season and then BAM he has them in the rotation for 2 weeks before going back to the bench.
I'm thinking Mason and Papa will be in the D League and Giles a part time D Leaguer.
So I can see sporadic minutes for Richardson and Jackson coming up and maybe even Bogdan for some reason, even though I think he is more like a FA signing than a vet, just think Joerger will keep him on a leash.
I'm not saying Joerger doing it this way isn't correct, it actually works really well despite what it looks like from the outside as we don't know what's being worked on in practise etc, just saying it's going to be a frustrating season in some regards.

benchmobbin02 · Post #13 » by **benchmobbin02** » Sun Jul 9, 2017 5:31 am

simonbampfield wrote:
benchmobbin02 wrote:I'm not worried about fit at all because I think we will be changing lineups so much, not only starting but in games, that we'll get to see all the combos of guys working together.

If anyone thought substitution patterns and differing line ups frustrated them in years gone by they really need to get ready for this season.
I can see a lot of people on here getting frustrated this coming season. Joerger has the young guys ride the pine for parts of the season and then BAM he has them in the rotation for 2 weeks before going back to the bench.
I'm thinking Mason and Papa will be in the D League and Giles a part time D Leaguer.
So I can see sporadic minutes for Richardson and Jackson coming up and maybe even Bogdan for some reason, even though I think he is more like a FA signing than a vet, just think Joerger will keep him on a leash.
I'm not saying Joerger doing it this way isn't correct, it actually works really well despite what it looks like from the outside as we don't know what's being worked on in practise etc, just saying it's going to be a frustrating season in some regards.

It shouldn't be too frustrating if the fan doesn't get it in their head that they know better than the coach what the lineup and the rotations should be. Wins and Loses though, yeah that may be taxing.

Sactowndog · Post #14 » by **Sactowndog** » Sun Jul 9, 2017 6:39 am

SacKingZZZ wrote:I think we see Hill, Buddy, VC, Zbo, and Willie start at the beginning of this year. Both Buddy and Willie are a bit older and more experienced than the other young players so it's probably a solid squad to put around those two.

I think it could very well be
Hill - Fox
Bogdan - Buddy/Temple
Carter - Jackson/Malachi
Z Bo. - Skal
WCS - KK/Pappa

SacKingZZZ · Post #15 » by **SacKingZZZ** » Sun Jul 9, 2017 7:16 pm

Sactowndog wrote:
SacKingZZZ wrote:I think we see Hill, Buddy, VC, Zbo, and Willie start at the beginning of this year. Both Buddy and Willie are a bit older and more experienced than the other young players so it's probably a solid squad to put around those two.

I think it could very well be
Hill - Fox
Bogdan - Buddy/Temple
Carter - Jackson/Malachi
Z Bo. - Skal
WCS - KK/Pappa

It could end up that way you never know, but I think Buddy is their A or A1 building block.

rpa · Post #16 » by **rpa** » Sun Jul 9, 2017 7:40 pm

Once you realize that Mason, Giles, Pappa, and Richardson should be spending most of their time in Reno (especially for the first few months of the season) it makes things a lot easier.

Fox / Hill
Buddy / Bogdan
Temple / Carter / Jackson
Skal / Randolph
WCS / KK

I think Bogdan could spend time at both the 1 and 3 in some lineups; Jackson will probably be both 3rd string 2 and 3; we'll probably see a decent amount of Fox/Hill/Buddy lineups; and Temple will probably get some play at the 1-3. Lots of versatility in that backcourt.

LightTheBeam · Post #17 » by **LightTheBeam** » Mon Jul 10, 2017 5:00 pm

rpa wrote:Once you realize that Mason, Giles, Pappa, and Richardson should be spending most of their time in Reno (especially for the first few months of the season) it makes things a lot easier.

Fox / Hill
Buddy / Bogdan
Temple / Carter / Jackson
Skal / Randolph
WCS / KK

I think Bogdan could spend time at both the 1 and 3 in some lineups; Jackson will probably be both 3rd string 2 and 3; we'll probably see a decent amount of Fox/Hill/Buddy lineups; and Temple will probably get some play at the 1-3. Lots of versatility in that backcourt.

This is pretty spot on. The only thing I think is that Mason won't be spending time in the dleague. He will likely be the 3rd string pg getting spot minutes and time when Hill is injured. Hes much more ready than the other 3. Papa, Giles, Richardson shouldn't be playing to start the season though.

Wisedude · Post #18 » by **Wisedude** » Sat Jul 15, 2017 2:35 pm

Would Sacramento trade Kosta Koufos to Cleveland for an expiring contract in Channing Frye?

VeganKingsFan · Post #19 » by **VeganKingsFan** » Sun Jul 16, 2017 3:58 am

Wisedude wrote:Would Sacramento trade Kosta Koufos to Cleveland for an expiring contract in Channing Frye?

Definitely not. He's worth a good second rounder at least, or 2 later 2nd's. Plus, why would we take a player on a neutral (?) 1 year contract to trade away our player on a good 2 year contract? Would he be a good mentor? I haven't really studied him. If he is, add 2 of Cleveland's (super late) 2nd rounders and then we're talking.

VeganKingsFan · Post #20 » by **VeganKingsFan** » Sun Jul 16, 2017 5:13 am

I think the lineup is going to constantly change. I am really intrigued by the slow-it-down vet lineup of Hill/Temple/Carter/Randolph/Koufos and the young guns lineup of Fox/Hield/Bogdanovic/Skal/Willie. Our 3rd string is really fun too: Mason/Richardson/Jackson/Giles/Papa. There won't be a night where I'm not really excited to watch the game.