Draft Watch 2018

[Archx]

I don't know what kind of logic you guys in the US use, but everytime i see something like this, other people laugh at you. I don't want to defend Luka here but i will basically defend EU players. Because i will say it again, 1 thing coaches teach primary in EU are fundamentals and how to play TEAM BALL. One thing NBA coaches check before you get to the NBA is what? Freaking athleticism... Something that is the easiest to work on. Something that can be improved in 2-3 years. You can't teach stupid!!!! Darko had good fundamentals but was mentally disturbed, other EU players that came in were at least role players. If someone doesn't put up 30ppg isn't exactly a bust. Just means he plays different role in a team and can still be productive.... Athleticism can only bring you so far... Lebron wouldn't be this good if he was dumb as a rock. Kobe wasn't as strong and athletic as Lebron but he is the only guy i would bet all my money on to beat MJ 1 : 1 because he was smart and skilled.

And another notion that i just can't understand. When you say he has high BBIQ, he has lower ceiling than anyone else because he is already a smart and good player... What kind of IDIOTIC and stupid way of thinking is that? You are really trying to tell me that a 19yo bball player who has Nash type of vision and playmaking skills can not get even better because he is already good at 19yo? Dear lord... So i guess Nash and Ginobili were busts because they didn't improve or translate their BBIQ to 35ppg and couldn't do 360 dunk between the legs... And not to mention they were even older when they came in.

I will point out like i said in the beginning, i am not really defending Doncic here, because i can't predict the future and i can't say how good he will translate, but i will just point out that the logic some use is incredibly flawed. It is MUCH MUCH MUCH more easier and likely that a 19yo with freaking genius bball brain will evolve more than someone who only knows how to shoot and dunk.

[jazanetti]

I don't know what kind of logic you guys in the US use, but everytime i see something like this, other people laugh at you. I don't want to defend Luka here but i will basically defend EU players. Because i will say it again, 1 thing coaches teach primary in EU are fundamentals and how to play TEAM BALL. One thing NBA coaches check before you get to the NBA is what? Freaking athleticism... Something that is the easiest to work on. Something that can be improved in 2-3 years. You can't teach stupid!!!! Darko had good fundamentals but was mentally disturbed, other EU players that came in were at least role players. If someone doesn't put up 30ppg isn't exactly a bust. Just means he plays different role in a team and can still be productive.... Athleticism can only bring you so far... Lebron wouldn't be this good if he was dumb as a rock. Kobe wasn't as strong and athletic as Lebron but he is the only guy i would bet all my money on to beat MJ 1 : 1 because he was smart and skilled.

And another notion that i just can't understand. When you say he has high BBIQ, he has lower ceiling than anyone else because he is already a smart and good player... What kind of IDIOTIC and stupid way of thinking is that? You are really trying to tell me that a 19yo bball player who has Nash type of vision and playmaking skills can not get even better because he is already good at 19yo? Dear lord... So i guess Nash and Ginobili were busts because they didn't improve or translate their BBIQ to 35ppg and couldn't do 360 dunk between the legs... And not to mention they were even older when they came in.

I will point out like i said in the beginning, i am not really defending Doncic here, because i can't predict the future and i can't say how good he will translate, but i will just point out that the logic some use is incredibly flawed. It is MUCH MUCH MUCH more easier and likely that a 19yo with freaking genius bball brain will evolve more than someone who only knows how to shoot and dunk.

Kings has the best for a long long time chance to get potential franchise player wia draft. To me there're 3 major player's groups of skills: ability to score, to defend and to create opportunities for teammates. To be a franchise player need to be elite at least in 2 of these 3 groups.
And all 3 groups in varying degrees are based on athleticism. The least dependent is ability to create opportunities for teammates. It's mostly based on BBIQ, but physical domination initiates problems for defense and so empty zones - even without great BBIQ you can find teammates.
Scoring ability is largely based on athleticism. The only way it's not - if a player is absolutely elite shooter. I don't say Doncic can't become elite shooter, but I don't see a prerequisite for that right now.
Defending ability is mostly based on athleticism. So it's hard to imagine someone with lack of athleticism can become franchise player.
But all written before doesn't mean I'm facing Doncic. He CAN become stronger and quicker and he CAN become elite shooter. I'm trying to say that lack of athleticism is as much concern as injury or lack of BBIQ are. So for me it's a very hard to choose between Luka and MPJ.

[Jstock12]

I don't know what kind of logic you guys in the US use, but everytime i see something like this, other people laugh at you. I don't want to defend Luka here but i will basically defend EU players. Because i will say it again, 1 thing coaches teach primary in EU are fundamentals and how to play TEAM BALL. One thing NBA coaches check before you get to the NBA is what? Freaking athleticism... Something that is the easiest to work on. Something that can be improved in 2-3 years. You can't teach stupid!!!! Darko had good fundamentals but was mentally disturbed, other EU players that came in were at least role players. If someone doesn't put up 30ppg isn't exactly a bust. Just means he plays different role in a team and can still be productive.... Athleticism can only bring you so far... Lebron wouldn't be this good if he was dumb as a rock. Kobe wasn't as strong and athletic as Lebron but he is the only guy i would bet all my money on to beat MJ 1 : 1 because he was smart and skilled.

And another notion that i just can't understand. When you say he has high BBIQ, he has lower ceiling than anyone else because he is already a smart and good player... What kind of IDIOTIC and stupid way of thinking is that? You are really trying to tell me that a 19yo bball player who has Nash type of vision and playmaking skills can not get even better because he is already good at 19yo? Dear lord... So i guess Nash and Ginobili were busts because they didn't improve or translate their BBIQ to 35ppg and couldn't do 360 dunk between the legs... And not to mention they were even older when they came in.

I will point out like i said in the beginning, i am not really defending Doncic here, because i can't predict the future and i can't say how good he will translate, but i will just point out that the logic some use is incredibly flawed. It is MUCH MUCH MUCH more easier and likely that a 19yo with freaking genius bball brain will evolve more than someone who only knows how to shoot and dunk.

Good post.

Athletic atributes are definitely a factor in basketball. But you know what's an even bigger factor? Knowing how to play the game. Bruno Caboclo is 6'9 with a 7'8 wingspan, but he absolutely doesn't know how to play the game and doesn't seem to be capable of learning it. He is useless out there even with his mammoth reach. Doncic at age 19 already has a better understanding of the game than a good amount of NBA veterans.

P.S. I'd say Luka's athleticism/strength/conditioning can definitely pass as average (or at least close to it) in the NBA, and that's usually something that a lot of Europeans improve when they get to the league.

[Archx]

Kings has the best for a long long time chance to get potential franchise player wia draft. To me there're 3 major player's groups of skills: ability to score, to defend and to create opportunities for teammates. To be a franchise player need to be elite a least in 2 of these 3 groups.
And all 3 groups in varying degrees are based on athleticism. The least dependent is ability to create opportunities for teammates. It's mostly based on BBIQ, but physical domination initiates problems for defense and so empty zones - even without great BBIQ you can find teammates.
Scoring ability is largely based on athleticism. The only way it's not - if a player is absolutely elite shooter. I don't say Doncic can't become elite shooter, but I don't see a prerequisite for that right now.
Defending ability is mostly based on athleticism. So it's hard to imagine someone with lack of athleticism can become franchise player.
But all written before doesn't mean I'm facing Doncic. He CAN become stronger and quicker and he CAN become elite shooter. I'm trying to say that lack of athleticism is as much concern as injury or lack of BBIQ are. So for me it's a very hard to choose between Luka and MPJ.

I respect your opinion and agree with you. But only 1 question. Luka is shooting 45% from 3pt line in spanish playoffs. Maybe after todays game it could get lower or maybe higher, we will see, but why people think he is not a good shooter? FIBA 3pt line is closer to the NBA line than the NCAA line. He even shoots a good 2 steps behind most of the time , which would translate into NBA 3pt shoot or even further than that. I don't understand the notion that he is not a good shooter. Even scouts/GMs point out that he is a good shooter but people here on these forums think he is not...

[jazanetti]

Kings has the best for a long long time chance to get potential franchise player wia draft. To me there're 3 major player's groups of skills: ability to score, to defend and to create opportunities for teammates. To be a franchise player need to be elite a least in 2 of these 3 groups.
And all 3 groups in varying degrees are based on athleticism. The least dependent is ability to create opportunities for teammates. It's mostly based on BBIQ, but physical domination initiates problems for defense and so empty zones - even without great BBIQ you can find teammates.
Scoring ability is largely based on athleticism. The only way it's not - if a player is absolutely elite shooter. I don't say Doncic can't become elite shooter, but I don't see a prerequisite for that right now.
Defending ability is mostly based on athleticism. So it's hard to imagine someone with lack of athleticism can become franchise player.
But all written before doesn't mean I'm facing Doncic. He CAN become stronger and quicker and he CAN become elite shooter. I'm trying to say that lack of athleticism is as much concern as injury or lack of BBIQ are. So for me it's a very hard to choose between Luka and MPJ.

I respect your opinion and agree with you. But only 1 question. Luka is shooting 45% from 3pt line in spanish playoffs. Maybe after todays game it could get lower or maybe higher, we will see, but why people think he is not a good shooter? FIBA 3pt line is closer to the NBA line than the NCAA line. He even shoots a good 2 steps behind most of the time , which would translate into NBA 3pt shoot or even further than that. I don't understand the notion that he is not a good shooter. Even scouts/GMs point out that he is a good shooter but people here on these forums think he is not...

His corner and off dribble 3pts do not look very good for me. His release is rather slow and flat. He is good enough shooter, but I don't see elite Curry/Thompson potential right now.

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[Archx]

No one said he is an elite 3pt shooter but i am saying that he is not as bad as people make him to be. And obviously with NBA training he can drastically improve.

On the other hand, i watched MPJ ESPN video analysis. Some people say he is KD 2.0 and yet he had problems getting by highschool defenders and people want him to go 2nd, ok then.

[Eisenheart]

good comments @Archx, 100% agree.

[Bob8]

Kings has the best for a long long time chance to get potential franchise player wia draft. To me there're 3 major player's groups of skills: ability to score, to defend and to create opportunities for teammates. To be a franchise player need to be elite a least in 2 of these 3 groups.
And all 3 groups in varying degrees are based on athleticism. The least dependent is ability to create opportunities for teammates. It's mostly based on BBIQ, but physical domination initiates problems for defense and so empty zones - even without great BBIQ you can find teammates.
Scoring ability is largely based on athleticism. The only way it's not - if a player is absolutely elite shooter. I don't say Doncic can't become elite shooter, but I don't see a prerequisite for that right now.
Defending ability is mostly based on athleticism. So it's hard to imagine someone with lack of athleticism can become franchise player.
But all written before doesn't mean I'm facing Doncic. He CAN become stronger and quicker and he CAN become elite shooter. I'm trying to say that lack of athleticism is as much concern as injury or lack of BBIQ are. So for me it's a very hard to choose between Luka and MPJ.

I respect your opinion and agree with you. But only 1 question. Luka is shooting 45% from 3pt line in spanish playoffs. Maybe after todays game it could get lower or maybe higher, we will see, but why people think he is not a good shooter? FIBA 3pt line is closer to the NBA line than the NCAA line. He even shoots a good 2 steps behind most of the time , which would translate into NBA 3pt shoot or even further than that. I don't understand the notion that he is not a good shooter. Even scouts/GMs point out that he is a good shooter but people here on these forums think he is not...

His corner and off dribble 3pts do not look very good for me. His release is rather slow and flat. He is good enough shooter, but I don't see elite Curry/Thompson potential right now.

Sent from my MI 3W using RealGM mobile app

He had something like 2 corner 3pts attempts in entire Euroleague season. His % is low mostly because his 3s are almost all unassisted. Young is advertised like new Curry and his 3pts % was 36, and the line is nearer in NCAA than in Europe. Is he worse shooter than JJJ and almost the same as Ayton because of that? Of course not, he’s shooting difficult shots like Doncic. % alone doesn’t mean ****.

[Jstock12]

I respect your opinion and agree with you. But only 1 question. Luka is shooting 45% from 3pt line in spanish playoffs. Maybe after todays game it could get lower or maybe higher, we will see, but why people think he is not a good shooter? FIBA 3pt line is closer to the NBA line than the NCAA line. He even shoots a good 2 steps behind most of the time , which would translate into NBA 3pt shoot or even further than that. I don't understand the notion that he is not a good shooter. Even scouts/GMs point out that he is a good shooter but people here on these forums think he is not...

His corner and off dribble 3pts do not look very good for me. His release is rather slow and flat. He is good enough shooter, but I don't see elite Curry/Thompson potential right now.

Sent from my MI 3W using RealGM mobile app

He had something like 2 corner 3pts attempts in entire Euroleague season. His % is low mostly because his 3s are almost all unassisted. Young is advertised like new Curry and his 3pts % was 36, and the line is nearer in NCAA than in Europe. Is he worse shooter than JJJ and almost the same as Ayton because of that? Of course not, he’s shooting difficult shots like Doncic. % alone doesn’t mean ****.

Agreed. He's not trying to keep his percentages good by not even attempting shots like these:

Watch on YouTube

And by the way, expecting Luka to be on the same level as Curry/Thompson at shooting is asinine. Those are probably 2 of the best 5 shooters in the NBA history. Doncic is a good shooter. Not historically great.

[jazanetti]

I respect your opinion and agree with you. But only 1 question. Luka is shooting 45% from 3pt line in spanish playoffs. Maybe after todays game it could get lower or maybe higher, we will see, but why people think he is not a good shooter? FIBA 3pt line is closer to the NBA line than the NCAA line. He even shoots a good 2 steps behind most of the time , which would translate into NBA 3pt shoot or even further than that. I don't understand the notion that he is not a good shooter. Even scouts/GMs point out that he is a good shooter but people here on these forums think he is not...

His corner and off dribble 3pts do not look very good for me. His release is rather slow and flat. He is good enough shooter, but I don't see elite Curry/Thompson potential right now.

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He had something like 2 corner 3pts attempts in entire Euroleague season. His % is low mostly because his 3s are almost all unassisted. Young is advertised like new Curry and his 3pts % was 36, and the line is nearer in NCAA than in Europe. Is he worse shooter than JJJ and almost the same as Ayton because of that? Of course not, he’s shooting difficult shots like Doncic. % alone doesn’t mean ****.

But doesn't it mean he's unconfident in those types of shots)

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[Jstock12]

His corner and off dribble 3pts do not look very good for me. His release is rather slow and flat. He is good enough shooter, but I don't see elite Curry/Thompson potential right now.

Sent from my MI 3W using RealGM mobile app

He had something like 2 corner 3pts attempts in entire Euroleague season. His % is low mostly because his 3s are almost all unassisted. Young is advertised like new Curry and his 3pts % was 36, and the line is nearer in NCAA than in Europe. Is he worse shooter than JJJ and almost the same as Ayton because of that? Of course not, he’s shooting difficult shots like Doncic. % alone doesn’t mean ****.

But doesn't it mean he's unconfident in those types of shots)

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The corner three is mostly a catch and shoot type of shot. Doncic usually isn't the one that others create plays for. Doncic is the one creating plays, so naturally a big part of his shots comes from the top of the key.

[Bob8]

If Doncic becomes near 40% shooter, is with combination of his passing, basketball IQ, ball handling and very big body enough to be almost unstoppable. Not exactly LeBron, but for sure multiple All Star. Will he get there? nobody knows, but that’s something I would bet on, if I was GM, who has possibility to draft him.

[Jstock12]

If Doncic becomes near 40% shooter, is with combination of his passing, basketball IQ, ball handling and very big body enough to be almost unstoppable. Not exactly LeBron, but for sure multiple All Star. Will he get there? nobody knows, but that’s something I would bet on if I was GM, who has possibility to draft him.

Definitely not anywhere close to LeBron, but he could become something in the mold of Harden - a very crafty/efficient/potent offensive player that can be hidden on the defensive side with the right personnel.

[Bob8]

His corner and off dribble 3pts do not look very good for me. His release is rather slow and flat. He is good enough shooter, but I don't see elite Curry/Thompson potential right now.

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He had something like 2 corner 3pts attempts in entire Euroleague season. His % is low mostly because his 3s are almost all unassisted. Young is advertised like new Curry and his 3pts % was 36, and the line is nearer in NCAA than in Europe. Is he worse shooter than JJJ and almost the same as Ayton because of that? Of course not, he’s shooting difficult shots like Doncic. % alone doesn’t mean ****.

But doesn't it mean he's unconfident in those types of shots)

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How can you say he’s unconfident, if he is not in position to take them? Corner shot is the easiest 3pts shot in basketball. He’s not attempting them, because he’s creating this shots for others.

[OhioKingsFan]

I've been watching highlights of Bogdan Bogdanovic last season, and his athleticism and pace remind me a lot of what I've seen from Doncic. He's not athletic enough to blow by players, so he uses a lot of step-backs and screens to create space to shoot. It worked well for Bogdan, I now think Doncic can make it work as well.

I admit, I have previously been concerned about Luka's lack of elite athleticism impacting his ability to succeed in the NBA, but after seeing how Bogdan was able to perform, I'm no longer concerned. I don't think Luka will be a primary scoring option, but I think he is skilled enough to become a vital part of a successful team. In the event of drafting Luka, the Kings should prioritize chasing a big man that can be a featured (athletic) scoring threat.

The best off-season for the Kings IMO would be to draft Luka and sign Julius Randle as a free agent (or Aaron Gordon, but I don't think Orlando will let him leave).

[Bob8]

I've been watching highlights of Bogdan Bogdanovic last season, and his athleticism and pace remind me a lot of what I've seen from Doncic. He's not athletic enough to blow by players, so he uses a lot of step-backs and screens to create space to shoot. It worked well for Bogdan, I now think Doncic can make it work as well.

I admit, I have previously been concerned about Luka's lack of elite athleticism impacting his ability to succeed in the NBA, but after seeing how Bogdan was able to perform, I'm no longer concerned. I don't think Luka will be a primary scoring option, but I think he is skilled enough to become a vital part of a successful team. In the event of drafting Luka, the Kings should prioritize chasing a big man that can be a featured (athletic) scoring threat.

The best off-season for the Kings IMO would be to draft Luka and sign Julius Randle as a free agent (or Aaron Gordon, but I don't think Orlando will let him leave).

Yes, Bogdan somewhat resembles Luka. But we must not forget that Luka is almost 7 years younger and has bigger body. He has much bigger room for improvement. I believe Bogdan and Luka would look great together, I'm not so sure about Luka and Fox.

[jazanetti]

I've been watching highlights of Bogdan Bogdanovic last season, and his athleticism and pace remind me a lot of what I've seen from Doncic. He's not athletic enough to blow by players, so he uses a lot of step-backs and screens to create space to shoot. It worked well for Bogdan, I now think Doncic can make it work as well.

I admit, I have previously been concerned about Luka's lack of elite athleticism impacting his ability to succeed in the NBA, but after seeing how Bogdan was able to perform, I'm no longer concerned. I don't think Luka will be a primary scoring option, but I think he is skilled enough to become a vital part of a successful team. In the event of drafting Luka, the Kings should prioritize chasing a big man that can be a featured (athletic) scoring threat.

The best off-season for the Kings IMO would be to draft Luka and sign Julius Randle as a free agent (or Aaron Gordon, but I don't think Orlando will let him leave).

But the team's major need is just the first scoring option, a man who'll provide 20+ points per game. Porter could be that guy)



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[Bob8]

I've been watching highlights of Bogdan Bogdanovic last season, and his athleticism and pace remind me a lot of what I've seen from Doncic. He's not athletic enough to blow by players, so he uses a lot of step-backs and screens to create space to shoot. It worked well for Bogdan, I now think Doncic can make it work as well.

I admit, I have previously been concerned about Luka's lack of elite athleticism impacting his ability to succeed in the NBA, but after seeing how Bogdan was able to perform, I'm no longer concerned. I don't think Luka will be a primary scoring option, but I think he is skilled enough to become a vital part of a successful team. In the event of drafting Luka, the Kings should prioritize chasing a big man that can be a featured (athletic) scoring threat.

The best off-season for the Kings IMO would be to draft Luka and sign Julius Randle as a free agent (or Aaron Gordon, but I don't think Orlando will let him leave).

But the team's major need is just the first scoring option, a man who'll provide 20+ points per game. Porter could be that guy)



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Kings will draft Doncic or maybe Bagley. Divac is not doing suicide with MPJ.

[codydaze]

And i know everyone has pictures they post when i bring this up but if Luka is actually 6'8/6'9" (im skeptical) he doesn't play that tall. If we're gonna criticize Bagley's height we've gotta throw Doncic's height in question too. And Porter actually did measurements at the combine and he was tall but he plays very hunched over (not sure if it's from injury or not).

In what ways would you say he doesn't play tall?

Just seems to play like a guard. I haven't really seen him use his height as much of an asset. I know he's taller but if he were say, 6'4" his game wouldn't be much different.

Also (less importantly) he's definitely not an upright player...not hunched but always bent in an athletic stance which makes him appear shorter.

Btw i think he plays tomorrow.

He's a really good rebounder though and gets to the line a lot, I'm failing to see how he doesn't use his size. He plays like a guard but is that any different than Ben Simmons? Would you say he doesn't play tall?

[kingjawn100]

i know its not meant to be a negative comparison but the Bogdan comparison is exactly why i WOULDN'T take Luka at 2. When people say Bogi's skill-set worked well last year, it worked well for a guy who realistically is a complimentary/role player. If a guy like that is your best player you simply aren't winning a ton of games.

Although Bogi is crafty and smart there are plays each game where he simply has to give the ball up because he doesn't have the athletic ability to either get to the rim or create separation for a jumper. Luka, while younger, will have some of the same issues, and it's hard to imagine us making deep playoff run when 3 of our 4 best players (luka, bogi, buddy) all have issues getting their own shot.

i don't think ive heard one person say that Luka's gonna be MUCH better than Bogi and that kinda scares me. Can someone break down an area where he is or projects to be MUCH better than Bogi?

At 7 im fine taking the crafty/basketball IQ guy...at 2 i want a superstar who's gonna make the basketball IQ guys/role players look even better.