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This team is killing me

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BoogieTime
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This team is killing me 

Post#1 » by BoogieTime » Thu Apr 12, 2018 5:00 pm

From ownership on down I don’t think I’ve ever been as despondent about this team. The team will likely be picking 7 (Bulls flip and % of other teams jumping), with a lack of a strong talent base, unqualified management, ownership that hasn’t been strong, and a negative image tainting free agency.

First we have the owner. I’ll take his word that he’s now hands off and allowing basketball minds to handle all duties. But why did he hire Vlade? It’s almost a joke among NBA circles that he would hire an ex player without a strong resume. Why did he think that was a good idea and can he be trusted to pull the plug or not do it in the future?

Vlade is an inexperienced, ex player who I don’t have a typical confidence that normal fans should have about their management. As such, i doubt good moves can be made, robbing me of confidence as a fan. The fact that he’s in charge also doesn’t inspire confidence in FAs I’m sure. But the problem is I want him gone and a qualified GM in place, and to do that I now have to root against the team so it gets worse to the point he is fired? How sick is that? Just unhealthy all the way around. The only three players he acquired that have worked out as of now are Fox/Buddy/Bogdan. It can be argued he didn’t get enough with the Buddy trade, and Fox, though talented, didn’t play to the 5th position advanced stats wise.

The players, this team just couldn’t afford WCS/Skal/Jackson to show nothing. One of them had to set the course this year. Giles is hype until otherwise, I can’t seriously address that until I see it. I’m left having confidence in Buddy/Bogdans play and Fox’s potential, and need to squint to see anything else.

The team is going to struggle in FA with its reputation, IMO, still, at an unfair rate to the fans. Fans of other teams get to root for FA like the draft lottery, but for us, with the teams reputation, it’s been an impotent exercise. Again, not cool

Not enough young players showed out this year, we won’t have our pick next year, I want unqualified management gone, I’m dubious of ownership for hiring management, while we are still looked down upon and may struggle in FA.

Supporting this team is becoming a struggle
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Re: This team is killing me 

Post#2 » by VeganKingsFan » Thu Apr 12, 2018 5:10 pm

I disagree with pretty much everything you're saying. So much negativity and victimhood mentality. There's a lot to be excited about. I know I am.
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Re: This team is killing me 

Post#3 » by BoogieTime » Thu Apr 12, 2018 5:19 pm

VeganKingsFan wrote:I disagree with pretty much everything you're saying. So much negativity and victimhood mentality. There's a lot to be excited about. I know I am.


Well thanks for listening to me. I needed to vent
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Re: This team is killing me 

Post#4 » by blind prophet » Thu Apr 12, 2018 5:20 pm

A long long time ago

I can still remember how SackingZZZ & I were disgusted by the Thompson contract

Little heed for long term dollars for mediocre investments.

Then came the dirty Laundry, welfare checks, draft busts

Jarl Thompandry was born.

Was such a monster that we had to pony up the farm to move on.

Tough place to be, a franchise player who needed help, not a dime to spend.

So gamble and hope it works out.

And the rest is history.

An epic saga to be felt for at least one more season.

Jarl Thompandry is like the boogeyman, Krueger like work of nightmares.
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Re: This team is killing me 

Post#5 » by codydaze » Thu Apr 12, 2018 5:37 pm

blind prophet wrote:A long long time ago

I can still remember how SackingZZZ & I were disgusted by the Thompson contract

Little heed for long term dollars for mediocre investments.

Then came the dirty Laundry, welfare checks, draft busts

Jarl Thompandry was born.

Was such a monster that we had to pony up the farm to move on.

Tough place to be, a franchise player who needed help, not a dime to spend.

So gamble and hope it works out.

And the rest is history.

An epic saga to be felt for at least one more season.

Jarl Thompandry is like the boogeyman, Krueger like work of nightmares.


This was poetic.
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Re: This team is killing me 

Post#6 » by codydaze » Thu Apr 12, 2018 5:40 pm

Gotta give these young guys time to grow. For as bad a job as Vlade has done, we actually have a decent group of young guys to develop and build around considering what we had when he took over. I was watching a clip of an old game and we literally had Ray McCallum, Ben Mclemore, Derrick Williams, Carl Landry and Demarcus Cousins on the floor. I don't know about you but I prefer the current roster over that crap any day of the week.

As far as free agency goes, when have we ever been a desirable destination? We always have struggled in FA, this is nothing new. Ironically, last summer might have been our best in terms of free agency.
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Re: This team is killing me 

Post#7 » by kingjawn100 » Thu Apr 12, 2018 6:25 pm

i’m not a fan of negativity but i don’t see a scenario where the team wins 35 games next year. The way the core of the team played vs tanking teams was kinda frightening (like we weren’t good enough to soundly beat other teams’ g-league squads). I know we can point to having a not-horrible win total but the truth is, if the teams below us weren’t tanking at the end of the year we may have ended up with the worst or 2nd worst record in the entire nba.

Here is a realistic guess at our roster next year...which won’t inspire too much confidence but i think its a fair guess

PG: Fox, Mason
SG: Bogi, Buddy, Temple
SF: Hezonja, Jackson, cheap FA vet
PF: ZBo, Skal, Giles
C: WCS, Wendell Carter, Koufos

This seems very likely with skal possibly traded and/or Koufos possibly opting out.
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Re: This team is killing me 

Post#8 » by madskillz8 » Thu Apr 12, 2018 7:16 pm

kingjawn100 wrote:i’m not a fan of negativity but i don’t see a scenario where the team wins 35 games next year. The way the core of the team played vs tanking teams was kinda frightening (like we weren’t good enough to soundly beat other teams’ g-league squads). I know we can point to having a not-horrible win total but the truth is, if the teams below us weren’t tanking at the end of the year we may have ended up with the worst or 2nd worst record in the entire nba.

Here is a realistic guess at our roster next year...which won’t inspire too much confidence but i think its a fair guess

PG: Fox, Mason
SG: Bogi, Buddy, Temple
SF: Hezonja, Jackson, cheap FA vet
PF: ZBo, Skal, Giles
C: WCS, Wendell Carter, Koufos

This seems very likely with skal possibly traded and/or Koufos possibly opting out.


That squad, especially the starting five that you projected looks depressing at first. However I'm expecting our young players to have better and more consistent 2nd and 3rd seasons than this year. We have 8 such players! Give Fox, Bogi and Buddy 30+ minutes. Give a responsibility to first round pick as well as Giles.

Also I don't think top 6 would be Doncic, Ayton, JJJ, Bamba, Bagley and MPJ for sure. There are some players who can move up like W.Carter, Sexton, Bridges bros, Young and Gilgerous-Alexander based on needs of teams.

By the way, in my previous post I did present our odds to move up or stay by assuming we are 6th worst team. Now we need to win a flip coin to be at the same position hence the odds have changed:

if we get 6th position: %21.5 first 3, 44.0 6th, 30.4 7th, 3.1 8th or 9th.
if we get 7th position: %15 first 3, 60 7th, 25 8th or 9th or 10th.

As a result now we have these odds: %18.25 first 3, %22 6th, %45.2 7th, and %14.55 8th or less (most likely 8th)
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Re: This team is killing me 

Post#9 » by BoogieTime » Thu Apr 12, 2018 7:16 pm

codydaze wrote:Gotta give these young guys time to grow. For as bad a job as Vlade has done, we actually have a decent group of young guys to develop and build around considering what we had when he took over. I was watching a clip of an old game and we literally had Ray McCallum, Ben Mclemore, Derrick Williams, Carl Landry and Demarcus Cousins on the floor. I don't know about you but I prefer the current roster over that crap any day of the week.

As far as free agency goes, when have we ever been a desirable destination? We always have struggled in FA, this is nothing new. Ironically, last summer might have been our best in terms of free agency.


Best in terms of FA? Nobody else was offering Hill that second year at that level, Vince 8, or Randolph 2/24 IMO. I think we offered more than anyone else and interest may not have been strong
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Re: This team is killing me 

Post#10 » by SacKingZZZ » Thu Apr 12, 2018 8:03 pm

As negative as the season was early I am more positive now then I've been in awhile. I think the season ended on a high note, because the focus shifted to where it should have been all along and that's with the youth. I am more than sure that they thought they could compete while the young players sat and "learned" how to win, that didn't happen and the fact that the team has seemingly moved on to the most common sense of directions again gives me hope that Vlade does know what he's doing and isn't set in his ways. Buddy, Fox, Bogdan, and a few of the others represent a very nice core of young players. Don't sleep on Buddy!!! I even like that Joerger adjusted as the season went on, I'd like to see more. They still kept Fox off the ball for most of the year and next year will show whether that helped or hurt him. When they figure out how to utilize their most prolific talent in the best way possible as a tandem I like the potential of this squad. And if it's proven the teams best 3-4 players can't attain a necessary level of chemistry then you build value in the process and make adjustments. Next year has to be about building value in their young assets because this year was too late of a start in that area. Now that said, this could all wash away when the starting lineup of next years team is a combo of Trae Young, Fox, Shumpert, Randolph, Temple, and Koufos. :lol:
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Re: This team is killing me 

Post#11 » by SacKingZZZ » Thu Apr 12, 2018 8:04 pm

BoogieTime wrote:
codydaze wrote:Gotta give these young guys time to grow. For as bad a job as Vlade has done, we actually have a decent group of young guys to develop and build around considering what we had when he took over. I was watching a clip of an old game and we literally had Ray McCallum, Ben Mclemore, Derrick Williams, Carl Landry and Demarcus Cousins on the floor. I don't know about you but I prefer the current roster over that crap any day of the week.

As far as free agency goes, when have we ever been a desirable destination? We always have struggled in FA, this is nothing new. Ironically, last summer might have been our best in terms of free agency.


Best in terms of FA? Nobody else was offering Hill that second year at that level, Vince 8, or Randolph 2/24 IMO. I think we offered more than anyone else and interest may not have been strong



Once again, how were these not coach favor signings? With maybe the exception of Hill the only connection to all of this is Dave Joerger. I think Vlade did his coach a solid and I hope he learned the dangers in doing that.
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Re: This team is killing me 

Post#12 » by SacKingZZZ » Thu Apr 12, 2018 8:11 pm

blind prophet wrote:A long long time ago

I can still remember how SackingZZZ & I were disgusted by the Thompson contract

Little heed for long term dollars for mediocre investments.

Then came the dirty Laundry, welfare checks, draft busts

Jarl Thompandry was born.

Was such a monster that we had to pony up the farm to move on.

Tough place to be, a franchise player who needed help, not a dime to spend.

So gamble and hope it works out.

And the rest is history.

An epic saga to be felt for at least one more season.

Jarl Thompandry is like the boogeyman, Krueger like work of nightmares.


Somewhere deep in the heart of Turkey, Jason Thompson is reading that and wiping his tears with a stack of Ben Franklins. :lol:
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Re: This team is killing me 

Post#13 » by codydaze » Thu Apr 12, 2018 8:20 pm

BoogieTime wrote:
codydaze wrote:Gotta give these young guys time to grow. For as bad a job as Vlade has done, we actually have a decent group of young guys to develop and build around considering what we had when he took over. I was watching a clip of an old game and we literally had Ray McCallum, Ben Mclemore, Derrick Williams, Carl Landry and Demarcus Cousins on the floor. I don't know about you but I prefer the current roster over that crap any day of the week.

As far as free agency goes, when have we ever been a desirable destination? We always have struggled in FA, this is nothing new. Ironically, last summer might have been our best in terms of free agency.


Best in terms of FA? Nobody else was offering Hill that second year at that level, Vince 8, or Randolph 2/24 IMO. I think we offered more than anyone else and interest may not have been strong


Yes it was the best FA we've had in bringing in the type of talent we did. Can you name a better free agency haul this organization has had?
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Re: This team is killing me 

Post#14 » by Sactowndog » Sun Apr 15, 2018 4:44 am

Just did an analysis of the times a team has picked in the 6,7,8 and the correlation to a losing record. The correlation is almost 70% that the more times you pick in those spots the more likely you are to have a losing record. You don’t have the same correlation with teams picking in the 1,2,3 spots.

Smart teams avoid the 6,7,8 spot. If they are that bad they tank to reach 1,2 or 3. Vlade is in over his head and has no clue what he is doing,
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Re: This team is killing me 

Post#15 » by BoogieTime » Sun Apr 15, 2018 4:55 am

Sactowndog wrote:Just did an analysis of the times a team has picked in the 6,7,8 and the correlation to a losing record. The correlation is almost 70% that the more times you pick in those spots the more likely you are to have a losing record. You don’t have the same correlation with times picking in the 1,2,3 spots.

Smart teams avoid the 6,7,8 spot. If they are that bad they tank to reach 1,2 or 3. Vlade is in over his head and has no clue what he is doing,


He shouldn’t have been hired, and he shouldn’t be there now. Why does such a good fanbase have to put up with this?
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Re: This team is killing me 

Post#16 » by KingJustise » Sun Apr 15, 2018 12:37 pm

Bring in Hinkie and let him "plan" a real rebuilding.

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Re: This team is killing me 

Post#17 » by benchmobbin02 » Sun Apr 15, 2018 1:52 pm

I really can't wait to rub it in you non believers faces when this group and some additions start winning games. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong but I think Fox, BH, BB, Giles, Hayes and Skal will all be a part of it. Rather have faith in this group than be hoping for ANOTHER rebuild and ANOTHER 3-4 years of crap.
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Re: This team is killing me 

Post#18 » by BoogieTime » Sun Apr 15, 2018 4:33 pm

The players aren’t my strongest concern. I did feel perturbed that of our young players, really only Buddy improved as the season went on, but I’m used to it (young players not showing out here). It’s still tolerable, and I can see how someone could take the positive angle.

The biggest issue, by far, is Vlade being the GM of the team. We are consigned to being led by a guy without rudimentary FO experience who hasn’t had a strong recent history. It’s like being on a cruise ship and finding out the captain didn’t undergo proper training and has been making abrupt turns. He’s going to be making moves that will affect this team the next 5 years. Because he’s on the hot seat he will try to make win now moves over long term viability. The only thing I can think of are how to get alternatives to him. If this team keeps plucking along does Vivek keep him?
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Re: This team is killing me 

Post#19 » by Sactowndog » Sun Apr 15, 2018 4:50 pm

benchmobbin02 wrote:I really can't wait to rub it in you non believers faces when this group and some additions start winning games. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong but I think Fox, BH, BB, Giles, Hayes and Skal will all be a part of it. Rather have faith in this group than be hoping for ANOTHER rebuild and ANOTHER 3-4 years of crap.


We aren’t so far off, but we really needed another good big this year and we are very close in a good top end draft for bigs to be looking at a guard as BPA.

BB and Buddy look good.

Giles and Fox are an unknown but are promising

Jackson and Skal are a crap shoot
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Re: This team is killing me 

Post#20 » by Jkam31 » Sun Apr 15, 2018 5:41 pm

kingjawn100 wrote:i’m not a fan of negativity but i don’t see a scenario where the team wins 35 games next year. The way the core of the team played vs tanking teams was kinda frightening (like we weren’t good enough to soundly beat other teams’ g-league squads). I know we can point to having a not-horrible win total but the truth is, if the teams below us weren’t tanking at the end of the year we may have ended up with the worst or 2nd worst record in the entire nba.

Here is a realistic guess at our roster next year...which won’t inspire too much confidence but i think its a fair guess

PG: Fox, Mason
SG: Bogi, Buddy, Temple
SF: Hezonja, Jackson, cheap FA vet
PF: ZBo, Skal, Giles
C: WCS, Wendell Carter, Koufos

This seems very likely with skal possibly traded and/or Koufos possibly opting out.


Lol
ZBo isn’t starting next year he might not even be in the roster. Look for us to grab Bjlecia to start at PF


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