Rotation if the season started today

[LightTheBeam]

Getting pretty quiet around here. Been a slow off season especially for us. Figured this would be a nice little thread.

WCS(26)/Koufos(14)/Randolph(8)
Randolph(16)/Bagley(22)/Skal or Giles(10)
Temple(22)/Jackson(18)/bogdan(8)
Bogdan(22)/Hield(26)
Fox(30)/Mason(14)/Temple(4)

I think Giles and Skal trade off on DNPs for the first month or 2 of the season. He will continue to play Randolph and keep bagley off the bench the same he did with Fox and Hill last year. It will be a garbage 11 man rotation where the kids need to earn their minutes. Jackson will play for a few weeks and wont do enough so he will turn over to shumpert and send Jackson to the G league.

This was pretty depressing to write, but I have no faith in our hard headed, force the old school mentality coach.

Here's the rotation I'd like to see from day 1

WCS(28)/Giles(20)
Bagley(28)/Skal (20)
Bogdan(32)/Jackson(16)
Hield(32)/Temple(16)
Fox(34)/Mason(14)

Even this I wouldnt mind seeing more minutes to bogdan, hield and Jackson while reducing temples minutes. That said temple earned the right to play, helps the team with defense, passing and shooting.

At this point I'd love to see vlade move Randolph for melo and picks just so Joerger cant play Randolph.


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[BoogieTime]

What about Jackson’s performance in SL suggested he can’t be a rotation player?

I don’t believe Randolph will be starting this year. He’s beyond old and a negative and a non fit

[sacking123]

I can’t see Randolph starting to be honest, unless the Kings want to get some value out of him at the deadline. Still would be best to bring him off the bench in a role that he could get on a contender. 10mpg. Between Bagley (26)/Giles (16)/Skal (12) the PF and C (WCS 26 + Koufas 12) minutes should be good.


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[blind prophet]

Notice you didn't give Shump any minutes.

I'll break it down in minute ranges per player on a typical game, not detailed precisely for 48 minutes.

PG

Fox 28-33 mpg Starter
Mason 10-20
Temple fills out the rest of time

SG

Bogi 30 ish minutes (some played at SF) Starter
Buddy 25-30 minutes (6th man, also plays with Bogi at times) Likely to close some games
Temple, Shumpert get some time here too with hard to define SG & SF roles

SF

Jackson & Shump sort of platoon it. About 20 minutes each
Bogi takes up most of the leftover minutes, occasionally Temple will be here

PF

Randolph 25-30 mpg. He will rest about one out of every 4-5 games completely
Bagley alternates starting when Randolph rests, when Randolph plays low 20 mpg
Giles a tad
Skal hardly plays

C

WCS 30+ MPG
Kosta & Giles split the rest

[kalenclayton]

I don’t believe Randolph will be starting this year. He’s beyond old and a negative and a non fit

I can’t see Randolph starting to be honest, unless the Kings want to get some value out of him at the deadline. Still would be best to bring him off the bench in a role that he could get on a contender. 10mpg. Between Bagley (26)/Giles (16)/Skal (12) the PF and C (WCS 26 + Koufas 12) minutes should be good.


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I get why you two think Randolph won’t start, but think about who is coaching this team. Zach started just about every game he played last season (57/59). Joerger loves him. He will probably start at least the first month. Skal played a “meh” season, so he couldn’t take Zach’s job. I think Joerger wants one of the young guys to make it obvious that it’s their spot before Zach sees the bench.

[LightTheBeam]

I don’t believe Randolph will be starting this year. He’s beyond old and a negative and a non fit

I can’t see Randolph starting to be honest, unless the Kings want to get some value out of him at the deadline. Still would be best to bring him off the bench in a role that he could get on a contender. 10mpg. Between Bagley (26)/Giles (16)/Skal (12) the PF and C (WCS 26 + Koufas 12) minutes should be good.


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I get why you two think Randolph won’t start, but think about who is coaching this team. Zach started just about every game he played last season (57/59). Joerger loves him. He will probably start at least the first month. Skal played a “meh” season, so he couldn’t take Zach’s job. I think Joerger wants one of the young guys to make it obvious that it’s their spot before Zach sees the bench.

Yup.. Its certainly not my hope. Any logical coach would have Bagley starting from day 1. Karen explained pretty much my thoughts.

[LightTheBeam]

Notice you didn't give Shump any minutes.

I'll break it down in minute ranges per player on a typical game, not detailed precisely for 48 minutes.

PG

Fox 28-33 mpg Starter
Mason 10-20
Temple fills out the rest of time

SG

Bogi 30 ish minutes (some played at SF) Starter
Buddy 25-30 minutes (6th man, also plays with Bogi at times) Likely to close some games
Temple, Shumpert get some time here too with hard to define SG & SF roles

SF

Jackson & Shump sort of platoon it. About 20 minutes each
Bogi takes up most of the leftover minutes, occasionally Temple will be here

PF

Randolph 25-30 mpg. He will rest about one out of every 4-5 games completely
Bagley alternates starting when Randolph rests, when Randolph plays low 20 mpg
Giles a tad
Skal hardly plays

C

WCS 30+ MPG
Kosta & Giles split the rest

So just roughly you are predicting a 12 man rotation with Skal being the odd man out?

Bigs - WCS/Bagley/Harry/Koufos/Zach
Wings - Shump/Temple/Jackson
Guards - Fox/Mason/Bogdan/Buddy

I surely wouldn't be surprised to see this. My hope was at the front office/coaching could understand we have no long term commitment to Shump and he isn't really familiar with the team, so playing him accomplishes nothing and hes a negative player. I just see a lot of duplication between he and Temple except Temple is better and more involved with the team.

[SacKingZZZ]

I'll probably be tuning out of more than a few games if we see another 12 man platoon where the most talented players on the team average around 24 mpg. Besides the horrendous offensive system that's what will end up holding this team back from being able to complete their team. No team drafts and purely develops. None.

[sacking123]

I don’t believe Randolph will be starting this year. He’s beyond old and a negative and a non fit

I can’t see Randolph starting to be honest, unless the Kings want to get some value out of him at the deadline. Still would be best to bring him off the bench in a role that he could get on a contender. 10mpg. Between Bagley (26)/Giles (16)/Skal (12) the PF and C (WCS 26 + Koufas 12) minutes should be good.


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I get why you two think Randolph won’t start, but think about who is coaching this team. Zach started just about every game he played last season (57/59). Joerger loves him. He will probably start at least the first month. Skal played a “meh” season, so he couldn’t take Zach’s job. I think Joerger wants one of the young guys to make it obvious that it’s their spot before Zach sees the bench.

I can absolutely see this. The 1 thing Joerger should be put on notice is to play and start Bagley from day 1. You don’t draft a player #2 overall to sit him on the bench on a team that will lose more often than not.
I still have that glimmer of hope that Joerger is a competent coach that can pivot away from his own style and not just a trick pony and one things for sure if we see Randolph start 1 game unless there are injuries then this FO and coaching staff have no idea about player development.


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[blind prophet]

Notice you didn't give Shump any minutes.

I'll break it down in minute ranges per player on a typical game, not detailed precisely for 48 minutes.

PG

Fox 28-33 mpg Starter
Mason 10-20
Temple fills out the rest of time

SG

Bogi 30 ish minutes (some played at SF) Starter
Buddy 25-30 minutes (6th man, also plays with Bogi at times) Likely to close some games
Temple, Shumpert get some time here too with hard to define SG & SF roles

SF

Jackson & Shump sort of platoon it. About 20 minutes each
Bogi takes up most of the leftover minutes, occasionally Temple will be here

PF

Randolph 25-30 mpg. He will rest about one out of every 4-5 games completely
Bagley alternates starting when Randolph rests, when Randolph plays low 20 mpg
Giles a tad
Skal hardly plays

C

WCS 30+ MPG
Kosta & Giles split the rest

So just roughly you are predicting a 12 man rotation with Skal being the odd man out?

Bigs - WCS/Bagley/Harry/Koufos/Zach
Wings - Shump/Temple/Jackson
Guards - Fox/Mason/Bogdan/Buddy

I surely wouldn't be surprised to see this. My hope was at the front office/coaching could understand we have no long term commitment to Shump and he isn't really familiar with the team, so playing him accomplishes nothing and hes a negative player. I just see a lot of duplication between he and Temple except Temple is better and more involved with the team.

Yeah pretty much, When Randolph rests Giles & Bagley will play more. But Skal is going to vanish most likely. Giles probably is not going to play a whole lot either at the start of the season.

That's the problem with having veterans like we do and a coach like ours.

[LightTheBeam]

Notice you didn't give Shump any minutes.

I'll break it down in minute ranges per player on a typical game, not detailed precisely for 48 minutes.

PG

Fox 28-33 mpg Starter
Mason 10-20
Temple fills out the rest of time

SG

Bogi 30 ish minutes (some played at SF) Starter
Buddy 25-30 minutes (6th man, also plays with Bogi at times) Likely to close some games
Temple, Shumpert get some time here too with hard to define SG & SF roles

SF

Jackson & Shump sort of platoon it. About 20 minutes each
Bogi takes up most of the leftover minutes, occasionally Temple will be here

PF

Randolph 25-30 mpg. He will rest about one out of every 4-5 games completely
Bagley alternates starting when Randolph rests, when Randolph plays low 20 mpg
Giles a tad
Skal hardly plays

C

WCS 30+ MPG
Kosta & Giles split the rest

So just roughly you are predicting a 12 man rotation with Skal being the odd man out?

Bigs - WCS/Bagley/Harry/Koufos/Zach
Wings - Shump/Temple/Jackson
Guards - Fox/Mason/Bogdan/Buddy

I surely wouldn't be surprised to see this. My hope was at the front office/coaching could understand we have no long term commitment to Shump and he isn't really familiar with the team, so playing him accomplishes nothing and hes a negative player. I just see a lot of duplication between he and Temple except Temple is better and more involved with the team.

Yeah pretty much, When Randolph rests Giles & Bagley will play more. But Skal is going to vanish most likely. Giles probably is not going to play a whole lot either at the start of the season.

That's the problem with having veterans like we do and a coach like ours.

I hope we are both wrong

And if we aren't than I really hope Joerger is fired before we get to the all-star break.

[kingjawn100]

Joerger has coached ZBo 7 of the last 8 years. They are extremely close. If ZBo's on the roster he's getting significant minutes and most likely starting, at least to begin the year.

To me, if the rookies (Bagley & Harry) don't seem ready you can't just force them out there. Not only will that lead to us losing games but they'll lose confidence as well. Especially where Bagley's at defensively that could be a huge liability for the team if they're playing the 19 year old big minutes to start the year.

The real wild card is Willie.The kings should use the offseason/preseason as an audition for him. If it seems like he's taken the offseason seriously and is willing to rebound/defend then we play him major minutes with the potential for re-signing him at the season's end. If it seems like the same Willie we start Kosta and either move WCS before the season or bury him on the bench until his contract expires.

The weird thing...if everyone plays to their full potential i think Willie is probably the most talented player on the entire team. 1st team all defense potential with 20 & 10 offensive potential. But very likely that potential never gets realized.

[kingjawn100]

i keep trying to rationalize how Bagley could possibly play small forward for us. I recently heard Jason March compare him to Shawn Marion and maybe they see him as a springy 3/4 hybrid. The truth of the matter...i think i saw him hit 1 jump shot all of summer league. He hit that 3 in his first summer league game and i cant remember him hitting 1 more (he airballed quite a few). It seems weird that they're trying to sell him as a small forward when his perimeter shot looks very shaky and his defense leaves a lot to be desired. He's almost a "No 3 & No D" at the moment.

At this point the only position where we can play him and he doesn't hurt is is actually center and thats only if he's able to hold his own ground and rebound at a high rate.

[becorz]

Guess I will give this a shot.

On the big man front, I think the Kings have to play WCS as much as possible. He is going to be a free agent, we have to see what we have in him. Obviously, Giles and Bagley will get minutes. Then you have the Koufos/Randolph problem. I think they are going to be trading off DNPs. But all of this is for nothing. I think there is no way both Randolph and Koufos are on the team next year. One of them will get traded in a trade like the Temple trade.

SF, going to see a lot of Buddy and Bogi.

PG, I do think we see a signing (Shelvin Mack? Ty Lawson? Someone I aint thinking of?) of a player who can put Frank Mason for playing time.

But as of right now

WCS(24)/Giles (12)/ {Randolph or Kosta} (12)
Giles (12) / Bagley(24) / {Randolph or Kosta} (12)
Bogdan(12)/Jackson(20)/Shump (6)
Buddy(30)/Bogdan(18)
Fox(30)/Mason(18)

[SacKingZZZ]

i keep trying to rationalize how Bagley could possibly play small forward for us. I recently heard Jason March compare him to Shawn Marion and maybe they see him as a springy 3/4 hybrid. The truth of the matter...i think i saw him hit 1 jump shot all of summer league. He hit that 3 in his first summer league game and i cant remember him hitting 1 more (he airballed quite a few). It seems weird that they're trying to sell him as a small forward when his perimeter shot looks very shaky and his defense leaves a lot to be desired. He's almost a "No 3 & No D" at the moment.

At this point the only position where we can play him and he doesn't hurt is is actually center and thats only if he's able to hold his own ground and rebound at a high rate.

I think he could if the intention is to pound the other teams SF down low. I do think he has the foot speed to be a multi positional defender and if his shotblocking transitions to the real NBA then I think he'll probably be best at center.

[LightTheBeam]

i keep trying to rationalize how Bagley could possibly play small forward for us. I recently heard Jason March compare him to Shawn Marion and maybe they see him as a springy 3/4 hybrid. The truth of the matter...i think i saw him hit 1 jump shot all of summer league. He hit that 3 in his first summer league game and i cant remember him hitting 1 more (he airballed quite a few). It seems weird that they're trying to sell him as a small forward when his perimeter shot looks very shaky and his defense leaves a lot to be desired. He's almost a "No 3 & No D" at the moment.

At this point the only position where we can play him and he doesn't hurt is is actually center and thats only if he's able to hold his own ground and rebound at a high rate.

I think he could if the intention is to pound the other teams SF down low. I do think he has the foot speed to be a multi positional defender and if his shotblocking transitions to the real NBA then I think he'll probably be best at center.

He and Giles are fast enough that for us 4-5 is really interchangable. I think the same holds true if WCS/Skal are still on the team as well. Those 4 guys are all athletic and Skal could end up being a pretty reliable stretch 4, while Giles/Bagley have the ability to shoot 2-3 a game as well.

[kingjawn100]

i keep trying to rationalize how Bagley could possibly play small forward for us. I recently heard Jason March compare him to Shawn Marion and maybe they see him as a springy 3/4 hybrid. The truth of the matter...i think i saw him hit 1 jump shot all of summer league. He hit that 3 in his first summer league game and i cant remember him hitting 1 more (he airballed quite a few). It seems weird that they're trying to sell him as a small forward when his perimeter shot looks very shaky and his defense leaves a lot to be desired. He's almost a "No 3 & No D" at the moment.

At this point the only position where we can play him and he doesn't hurt is is actually center and thats only if he's able to hold his own ground and rebound at a high rate.

I think he could if the intention is to pound the other teams SF down low. I do think he has the foot speed to be a multi positional defender and if his shotblocking transitions to the real NBA then I think he'll probably be best at center.

The thing is...none of our bigs can really shoot from the perimeter. So if you're playing Bagley at small forward you'd have 6 players (3 of our, 3 of theirs) in the paint and the spacing would obviously be a disaster.

[SacKingZZZ]

i keep trying to rationalize how Bagley could possibly play small forward for us. I recently heard Jason March compare him to Shawn Marion and maybe they see him as a springy 3/4 hybrid. The truth of the matter...i think i saw him hit 1 jump shot all of summer league. He hit that 3 in his first summer league game and i cant remember him hitting 1 more (he airballed quite a few). It seems weird that they're trying to sell him as a small forward when his perimeter shot looks very shaky and his defense leaves a lot to be desired. He's almost a "No 3 & No D" at the moment.

At this point the only position where we can play him and he doesn't hurt is is actually center and thats only if he's able to hold his own ground and rebound at a high rate.

I think he could if the intention is to pound the other teams SF down low. I do think he has the foot speed to be a multi positional defender and if his shotblocking transitions to the real NBA then I think he'll probably be best at center.

The thing is...none of our bigs can really shoot from the perimeter. So if you're playing Bagley at small forward you'd have 6 players (3 of our, 3 of theirs) in the paint and the spacing would obviously be a disaster.

I think Bagley will have a decent jumper in time. He's got a nice, natural looking stroke and I think with more practice and attempts that could be a strong point of his game.

[becorz]

Reading Yahoo's article on the Yogi signing, I saw this https://sports.yahoo.com/sources-yogi-ferrell-agrees-2-year-6-2m-deal-kings-200922148.html

“I heard the vision and optimism from Vlade and Brandon, and got a view of the culture and direction from veterans I look up to, and that was impactful,” Ferrell told Yahoo Sports. “I see the explosive potential from a starving young group that wants to open the floor up with more shooting and play with speed and smarts.

What if the Kings truly want to play fast. Could they have a rotation like this?

WCS(24) /Giles (24)
Bagley(24) / Jackson (24)
Bogdan(30)/Shump (18)
Buddy(30)/Yogi(18)
Fox(30)/Mason(18)

That would be a real fast and real young team. And I like the idea of playing Jackson at PF.

[LightTheBeam]

If WCS/Skal are on the roster come opening day, then Koufos/Randolph need to get DNPS. No way we can rotate 7 bigs this year ill lose my mind. Here is what I want to see.. Trade WCS for Winslow. Call it an offseason.

Giles/Skal/Koufos
Bagley/Bjelica/Randolph
Winslow/Jackson/Shump
Bogdan/Hield/Mclemore
Fox/Yogi/Mason

The last 5 on the roster would only get minutes when needed/injuries/foul trouble. If jackson looks bad that opens up the door for shump