ImageImageImageImageImage

Kings General Discussion 2018-2019

Moderators: City of Trees, KF10, codydaze

SacKingZZZ
RealGM
Posts: 23,918
And1: 966
Joined: Feb 19, 2005
Location: "Look at me, Dave, look. Come and touch it, Dave."

Re: Kings General Discussion 2018-2019 

Post#941 » by SacKingZZZ » Sun Apr 21, 2019 10:56 pm

Barnes is more than a role player, and the fact that he can still produce like he has in more of a role players role and was willing to accept it is a sign that you can't afford to let him go. He fits. 20 million a year or not is dictated by the market. I can't see him turning down 25 this year so there's one more year to see him in action if he picks up his option.
bleeds_purple
Veteran
Posts: 2,698
And1: 1,363
Joined: May 22, 2014

Re: Kings General Discussion 2018-2019 

Post#942 » by bleeds_purple » Mon Apr 22, 2019 5:53 am

dckingsfan wrote:I wonder if we could grab Sabonis somehow? He would be a terrific fit, IMO. I would move Bogdan and assets for Sabonis.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/26567437/the-pacers-big-dilemma-turner-sabonis-coexist


As a matter of rule, I wouldn't trade quality wings for bigs in a lateral move.
bleeds_purple
Veteran
Posts: 2,698
And1: 1,363
Joined: May 22, 2014

Re: Kings General Discussion 2018-2019 

Post#943 » by bleeds_purple » Mon Apr 22, 2019 5:55 am

OGSactownballer wrote:My thoughts are that there are two guys we would be justified in giving a Max deal to for the SF spot.

Durant.

Middleton.

Beyond that it’s a matter of fit and need and whether or not Barnes it’s out to free more cap.

I DO NOT want to be dumb enough to give Barnes $20 mil per. He’s not worth it. If they do that they will regret it. He is a ROLE PLAYER. And always has been. They need to not go and pay him like he’s a third or fourth option.

And Willies role can be filled much cheaper and more effectively by a ton of guys.


A quality, two-way, role playing, bona-fide SF is worth a lot of money. I'm sure if he opts out he will take less than what he would make next season for long term security. I really like Barnes. He is just entering his prime right now and I believe he will have his four best seasons as a pro under that deal.
dckingsfan
RealGM
Posts: 14,651
And1: 3,035
Joined: May 28, 2010

Re: Kings General Discussion 2018-2019 

Post#944 » by dckingsfan » Mon Apr 22, 2019 12:57 pm

bleeds_purple wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:I wonder if we could grab Sabonis somehow? He would be a terrific fit, IMO. I would move Bogdan and assets for Sabonis.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/26567437/the-pacers-big-dilemma-turner-sabonis-coexist

As a matter of rule, I wouldn't trade quality wings for bigs in a lateral move.

I think that as a general rule, that is a good rule. But Sabonis (IMO) is better than Bogs. My two cents...
User avatar
codydaze
Forum Mod - Kings
Forum Mod - Kings
Posts: 3,685
And1: 2,450
Joined: Jul 06, 2013
Location: Sacramento, CA
     

Re: Kings General Discussion 2018-2019 

Post#945 » by codydaze » Mon Apr 22, 2019 4:28 pm

dckingsfan wrote:
bleeds_purple wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:I wonder if we could grab Sabonis somehow? He would be a terrific fit, IMO. I would move Bogdan and assets for Sabonis.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/26567437/the-pacers-big-dilemma-turner-sabonis-coexist

As a matter of rule, I wouldn't trade quality wings for bigs in a lateral move.

I think that as a general rule, that is a good rule. But Sabonis (IMO) is better than Bogs. My two cents...


Agreed. I think Myles Turner would the perfect fit at 5 for us since he can protect the rim and stretch the floor but I would imagine Sabonis is who Indiana would prefer to move and he is also a beast. I would trade Bogi for Sabonis in a heartbeat and I love Bogi.
User avatar
codydaze
Forum Mod - Kings
Forum Mod - Kings
Posts: 3,685
And1: 2,450
Joined: Jul 06, 2013
Location: Sacramento, CA
     

Re: Kings General Discussion 2018-2019 

Post#946 » by codydaze » Mon Apr 22, 2019 4:29 pm

OGSactownballer wrote:My thoughts are that there are two guys we would be justified in giving a Max deal to for the SF spot.

Durant.

Middleton.

Beyond that it’s a matter of fit and need and whether or not Barnes it’s out to free more cap.

I DO NOT want to be dumb enough to give Barnes $20 mil per. He’s not worth it. If they do that they will regret it. He is a ROLE PLAYER. And always has been. They need to not go and pay him like he’s a third or fourth option.

And Willies role can be filled much cheaper and more effectively by a ton of guys.


I feel like we'll offer Barnes around $15 million a year and I wouldn't be mad at that. If we can convince him to opt out and extend for 4/60 that would be a solid deal in my opinion.
bleeds_purple
Veteran
Posts: 2,698
And1: 1,363
Joined: May 22, 2014

Re: Kings General Discussion 2018-2019 

Post#947 » by bleeds_purple » Mon Apr 22, 2019 7:20 pm

codydaze wrote:
OGSactownballer wrote:My thoughts are that there are two guys we would be justified in giving a Max deal to for the SF spot.

Durant.

Middleton.

Beyond that it’s a matter of fit and need and whether or not Barnes it’s out to free more cap.

I DO NOT want to be dumb enough to give Barnes $20 mil per. He’s not worth it. If they do that they will regret it. He is a ROLE PLAYER. And always has been. They need to not go and pay him like he’s a third or fourth option.

And Willies role can be filled much cheaper and more effectively by a ton of guys.


I feel like we'll offer Barnes around $15 million a year and I wouldn't be mad at that. If we can convince him to opt out and extend for 4/60 that would be a solid deal in my opinion.


I'm expecting it to be 4 years in the 70-80 range. 15 is a steal IMO.
jazanetti
Junior
Posts: 259
And1: 38
Joined: Apr 13, 2017
     

Re: Kings General Discussion 2018-2019 

Post#948 » by jazanetti » Mon Apr 22, 2019 7:29 pm

codydaze wrote:
OGSactownballer wrote:My thoughts are that there are two guys we would be justified in giving a Max deal to for the SF spot.

Durant.

Middleton.

Beyond that it’s a matter of fit and need and whether or not Barnes it’s out to free more cap.

I DO NOT want to be dumb enough to give Barnes $20 mil per. He’s not worth it. If they do that they will regret it. He is a ROLE PLAYER. And always has been. They need to not go and pay him like he’s a third or fourth option.

And Willies role can be filled much cheaper and more effectively by a ton of guys.


I feel like we'll offer Barnes around $15 million a year and I wouldn't be mad at that. If we can convince him to opt out and extend for 4/60 that would be a solid deal in my opinion.

He's only 27. I see no reason for him to opt out. He'll easily get the same 4/60 next summer.
BoogieTime
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,995
And1: 625
Joined: Feb 09, 2017
 

Re: Kings General Discussion 2018-2019 

Post#949 » by BoogieTime » Mon Apr 22, 2019 7:49 pm

A player that had no impact on winning/losing and arguably had a less impact than Shumpert shouldn’t be making more than around half his upcoming year.

What is Buddy worth, the max then?

We have a lot of players/couple holes and need to be fiscally responsible

I don’t see the Kings offering him anything to turn down that last year

Which will be a prove it year
dckingsfan
RealGM
Posts: 14,651
And1: 3,035
Joined: May 28, 2010

Re: Kings General Discussion 2018-2019 

Post#950 » by dckingsfan » Wed Apr 24, 2019 1:22 pm

BoogieTime wrote:A player that had no impact on winning/losing and arguably had a less impact than Shumpert shouldn’t be making more than around half his upcoming year.

What is Buddy worth, the max then?

We have a lot of players/couple holes and need to be fiscally responsible

I don’t see the Kings offering him anything to turn down that last year

Which will be a prove it year

Out of curiosity, which players do you think the Kings will/should max?

Code: Select all

Player             Age   Contract Renegotiation
Harrison Barnes     26   2020-21   
Bogdan Bogdanovic   26   2020-21   
Marvin Bagley       20   2020-23
Nemanja Bjelica     30   2021-22
De'Aaron Fox        21   2021-22
Buddy Hield         26   2020-21      
Harry Giles         21   2021-22
BoogieTime
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,995
And1: 625
Joined: Feb 09, 2017
 

Re: Kings General Discussion 2018-2019 

Post#951 » by BoogieTime » Wed Apr 24, 2019 2:17 pm

dckingsfan wrote:
BoogieTime wrote:A player that had no impact on winning/losing and arguably had a less impact than Shumpert shouldn’t be making more than around half his upcoming year.

What is Buddy worth, the max then?

We have a lot of players/couple holes and need to be fiscally responsible

I don’t see the Kings offering him anything to turn down that last year

Which will be a prove it year

Out of curiosity, which players do you think the Kings will/should max?

Code: Select all

Player             Age   Contract Renegotiation
Harrison Barnes     26   2020-21   
Bogdan Bogdanovic   26   2020-21   
Marvin Bagley       20   2020-23
Nemanja Bjelica     30   2021-22
De'Aaron Fox        21   2021-22
Buddy Hield         26   2020-21      
Harry Giles         21   2021-22


Everyone on that list, aside from Bjelica, and maybe Giles, you would like to keep long term (and many expect Giles to be part of the core too, I need to see more). In addition to having a somewhat quality bench, and filling the post WCS big man whole. There just isn’t flexibility to give Barnes late teens a year, which he will need not to opt in IMO, without him demonstrating he’s needed for the Kings success (as the team got nothing but worse with him at SF instead of Shump)

Personally, I’d hand out big money to another prime FA, or sign two solid FAs with that late teens money until Harrison shows impact. It will be interesting to see what the team does. If he gets less than 17 a year I don’t know if I can see him opting out

I think Fox/Bagley will get max currently
dckingsfan
RealGM
Posts: 14,651
And1: 3,035
Joined: May 28, 2010

Re: Kings General Discussion 2018-2019 

Post#952 » by dckingsfan » Wed Apr 24, 2019 4:05 pm

BoogieTime wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:
BoogieTime wrote:A player that had no impact on winning/losing and arguably had a less impact than Shumpert shouldn’t be making more than around half his upcoming year.

What is Buddy worth, the max then?

We have a lot of players/couple holes and need to be fiscally responsible

I don’t see the Kings offering him anything to turn down that last year

Which will be a prove it year

Out of curiosity, which players do you think the Kings will/should max?

Code: Select all

Player             Age   Contract Renegotiation
Harrison Barnes     26   2020-21   
Bogdan Bogdanovic   26   2020-21   
Marvin Bagley       20   2020-23
Nemanja Bjelica     30   2021-22
De'Aaron Fox        21   2021-22
Buddy Hield         26   2020-21      
Harry Giles         21   2021-22


Everyone on that list, aside from Bjelica, and maybe Giles, you would like to keep long term (and many expect Giles to be part of the core too, I need to see more). In addition to having a somewhat quality bench, and filling the post WCS big man whole. There just isn’t flexibility to give Barnes late teens a year, which he will need not to opt in IMO, without him demonstrating he’s needed for the Kings success (as the team got nothing but worse with him at SF instead of Shump)

Personally, I’d hand out big money to another prime FA, or sign two solid FAs with that late teens money until Harrison shows impact. It will be interesting to see what the team does. If he gets less than 17 a year I don’t know if I can see him opting out

I think Fox/Bagley will get max currently

Here is what it would look like with maxing Fox/Hield/Bagley

Code: Select all

Player             2019-20         2020-21       2021-22        2022-23        2023-24
Harrison Barnes    $25,102,512             
Bogdan Bogdanovic   $8,529,386             
Marvin Bagley       $8,556,120     $8,963,640    $11,312,114    $25,467,250    $27,270,000
Nemanja Bjelica     $6,825,000     $7,150,000          
De'Aaron Fox        $6,392,760     $8,099,627    $25,467,250    $27,270,000    $29,290,000
Buddy Hield         $4,861,208    $25,467,250    $27,270,000    $29,290,000    $31,310,000
Yogi Ferrell        $3,150,000             
Harry Giles         $2,578,800     $3,976,510          
Caleb Swanigan      $2,033,160     $3,665,787          
Total               68,028,946     57,322,814     64,049,364     82,027,250     87,870,000
BoogieTime
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,995
And1: 625
Joined: Feb 09, 2017
 

Re: Kings General Discussion 2018-2019 

Post#953 » by BoogieTime » Wed Apr 24, 2019 6:22 pm

dckingsfan wrote:
BoogieTime wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:Out of curiosity, which players do you think the Kings will/should max?

Code: Select all

Player             Age   Contract Renegotiation
Harrison Barnes     26   2020-21   
Bogdan Bogdanovic   26   2020-21   
Marvin Bagley       20   2020-23
Nemanja Bjelica     30   2021-22
De'Aaron Fox        21   2021-22
Buddy Hield         26   2020-21      
Harry Giles         21   2021-22


Everyone on that list, aside from Bjelica, and maybe Giles, you would like to keep long term (and many expect Giles to be part of the core too, I need to see more). In addition to having a somewhat quality bench, and filling the post WCS big man whole. There just isn’t flexibility to give Barnes late teens a year, which he will need not to opt in IMO, without him demonstrating he’s needed for the Kings success (as the team got nothing but worse with him at SF instead of Shump)

Personally, I’d hand out big money to another prime FA, or sign two solid FAs with that late teens money until Harrison shows impact. It will be interesting to see what the team does. If he gets less than 17 a year I don’t know if I can see him opting out

I think Fox/Bagley will get max currently

Here is what it would look like with maxing Fox/Hield/Bagley

Code: Select all

Player             2019-20         2020-21       2021-22        2022-23        2023-24
Harrison Barnes    $25,102,512             
Bogdan Bogdanovic   $8,529,386             
Marvin Bagley       $8,556,120     $8,963,640    $11,312,114    $25,467,250    $27,270,000
Nemanja Bjelica     $6,825,000     $7,150,000          
De'Aaron Fox        $6,392,760     $8,099,627    $25,467,250    $27,270,000    $29,290,000
Buddy Hield         $4,861,208    $25,467,250    $27,270,000    $29,290,000    $31,310,000
Yogi Ferrell        $3,150,000             
Harry Giles         $2,578,800     $3,976,510          
Caleb Swanigan      $2,033,160     $3,665,787          
Total               68,028,946     57,322,814     64,049,364     82,027,250     87,870,000


I think Buddy will take a few less than max (although if Barnes is worth late teens, why not?), but that illustrates why an auxiliary player like Barnes, who hasn’t shown impact, needs to come affordable.

I have Barnes around 12-13. There was a chart of SFs, and players like Warren/Ingles/Covington/Iguodala/Chandler (Denver prime) were making that.
dckingsfan
RealGM
Posts: 14,651
And1: 3,035
Joined: May 28, 2010

Re: Kings General Discussion 2018-2019 

Post#954 » by dckingsfan » Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:13 pm

BoogieTime wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:
BoogieTime wrote:
Everyone on that list, aside from Bjelica, and maybe Giles, you would like to keep long term (and many expect Giles to be part of the core too, I need to see more). In addition to having a somewhat quality bench, and filling the post WCS big man whole. There just isn’t flexibility to give Barnes late teens a year, which he will need not to opt in IMO, without him demonstrating he’s needed for the Kings success (as the team got nothing but worse with him at SF instead of Shump)

Personally, I’d hand out big money to another prime FA, or sign two solid FAs with that late teens money until Harrison shows impact. It will be interesting to see what the team does. If he gets less than 17 a year I don’t know if I can see him opting out

I think Fox/Bagley will get max currently

Here is what it would look like with maxing Fox/Hield/Bagley

Code: Select all

Player             2019-20         2020-21       2021-22        2022-23        2023-24
Harrison Barnes    $25,102,512    $15,000,000    $15,000,000   $15,000,000     $15,000,000      
Bogdan Bogdanovic   $8,529,386             
Marvin Bagley       $8,556,120     $8,963,640    $11,312,114    $25,467,250    $27,270,000
Nemanja Bjelica     $6,825,000     $7,150,000          
De'Aaron Fox        $6,392,760     $8,099,627    $25,467,250    $27,270,000    $29,290,000
Buddy Hield         $4,861,208    $25,467,250    $27,270,000    $29,290,000    $31,310,000
Yogi Ferrell        $3,150,000             
Harry Giles         $2,578,800     $3,976,510          
Caleb Swanigan      $2,033,160     $3,665,787          
Total               68,028,946     72,322,814     79,049,364     97,027,250     102,870,000


I think Buddy will take a few less than max (although if Barnes is worth late teens, why not?), but that illustrates why an auxiliary player like Barnes, who hasn’t shown impact, needs to come affordable.

I have Barnes around 12-13. There was a chart of SFs, and players like Warren/Ingles/Covington/Iguodala/Chandler (Denver prime) were making that.

I updated with Barnes at 15 (think that was suggested previously).
bleeds_purple
Veteran
Posts: 2,698
And1: 1,363
Joined: May 22, 2014

Re: Kings General Discussion 2018-2019 

Post#955 » by bleeds_purple » Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:34 pm

Hopefully Fox and Marvin earn a max deal. Buddy should be close to a Klay Thompson level deal. We'll see if Thompson gets a max.

I really hope Vivek is willing to spend on this team. He's making a ton of money from what I've read. Revenue has nearly doubled in the last two years alone let alone team valuation which is over $1B now.
BoogieTime
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,995
And1: 625
Joined: Feb 09, 2017
 

Re: Kings General Discussion 2018-2019 

Post#956 » by BoogieTime » Thu May 2, 2019 10:23 pm

ONe of the greatest questions for this team going forward is whether or not Fox’s downturn in play during the course of the season is physical or mental.

I had to watch that first Hawks game again when he was putting up 31/15/10 with an electricity that few players have ever had. At that point it was easy to be giddy about his future. In comparison to many games later in the year which lacked “imprint”.

His play has been a point of contention with me on other sites. It does no good to just raw raw support the kid and not analyze what’s actually happening

This actually mirrored last year, the great start to a more meandering year later. Though he certainly improved in the two years

Kid is underdeveloped physically or mentally. Physically in that either the pace we played with, or his body cannot handle 82. Or mentally in that there may be motor issues.

It’s a big question. I certainly hope he’s able to add to his body and demonstrate consistency throughout the year with added strength, because just rewatching some of the earlier games and he was flashing potential star stuff
simonbampfield
Analyst
Posts: 3,505
And1: 759
Joined: Jul 23, 2004
Location: In my office
Contact:
     

Re: Kings General Discussion 2018-2019 

Post#957 » by simonbampfield » Fri May 3, 2019 1:30 pm

BoogieTime wrote:ONe of the greatest questions for this team going forward is whether or not Fox’s downturn in play during the course of the season is physical or mental.

I had to watch that first Hawks game again when he was putting up 31/15/10 with an electricity that few players have ever had. At that point it was easy to be giddy about his future. In comparison to many games later in the year which lacked “imprint”.

His play has been a point of contention with me on other sites. It does no good to just raw raw support the kid and not analyze what’s actually happening

This actually mirrored last year, the great start to a more meandering year later. Though he certainly improved in the two years

Kid is underdeveloped physically or mentally. Physically in that either the pace we played with, or his body cannot handle 82. Or mentally in that there may be motor issues.

It’s a big question. I certainly hope he’s able to add to his body and demonstrate consistency throughout the year with added strength, because just rewatching some of the earlier games and he was flashing potential star stuff


I think with Fox it is physical and it will get better moving forward. Perhaps he is going to progress a little slower on that side of things compared to others though.

I definitely think you are right on the money to be critical of his imprint on the game.
I hope that’s been discussed in house too.
Overall I think he will be ok. If he shows similar in year three though there will be some serious questions asked.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app
Sacramento Kings
Sydney Kings
SacKingZZZ
RealGM
Posts: 23,918
And1: 966
Joined: Feb 19, 2005
Location: "Look at me, Dave, look. Come and touch it, Dave."

Re: Kings General Discussion 2018-2019 

Post#958 » by SacKingZZZ » Fri May 3, 2019 9:59 pm

A lot of it was offensive play changes as well. The Team went more post up from almost every position and it didn't really impact the team in any true positive way. It's garbled up the spacing and timing.
BoogieTime
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,995
And1: 625
Joined: Feb 09, 2017
 

Re: Kings General Discussion 2018-2019 

Post#959 » by BoogieTime » Sat May 4, 2019 10:21 pm

At the trade deadline, most of all I wanted a center, as I thought you could not have done worse than WCS at that point. Kanter was a name suggested, as he may have wanted a starting role, and looking at this Portland series, that could’ve helped a lot. SF was addressed with Barnes, but if we had another C option I still think the season could’ve ended different
RipPizzaGuy
General Manager
Posts: 8,111
And1: 4,506
Joined: Sep 17, 2010
     

Re: Kings General Discussion 2018-2019 

Post#960 » by RipPizzaGuy » Mon May 6, 2019 8:48 pm

SacKingZZZ wrote:A lot of it was offensive play changes as well. The Team went more post up from almost every position and it didn't really impact the team in any true positive way. It's garbled up the spacing and timing.


I think this is a big thing. Bjelica and WCS started out really hot and we were running out the gates. As the season progressed and we saw Giles/Bagley get more minutes, the identity of our offense went through some changes. Removing Shump for Barnes also made a big impact.

The biggest thing to me here is that we are talking about a 20 year old kid and having unreal expectations.

As the great Jerry Reynolds always says, guards and big men take longer to develop.

Return to Sacramento Kings