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Game #58 Sacramento @ Golden State

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Re: Game #58 Sacramento @ Golden State 

Post#21 » by benchmobbin02 » Fri Feb 22, 2019 11:12 pm

SacKingZZZ wrote:
benchmobbin02 wrote:
SacKingZZZ wrote:
I didn't even notice but went back to check it out because of all the hubbub. WTF was that? Joerger didn't even look at him after Buddy missed that last shot. Uh, Joerger no Buddy = no more you like halfway through this season. This kind of brings me back to that talk about Buddy coming to Vlade to talk and how his minutes jumped after. Hey Dave, if you want to know how stars vs. coach battles end up call Paul Westphal. Heck, look in the mirror and repeat the name Marc Gasol three times in the dark :lol:


People thinking they know what that convo was about need to chill out on coach. We don't! Even if it was just a plain "hey, don't shot a 30fter when we have a perfect play called and someone else was open for a better shot" then Coach is doing his job regardless of if the shot went in. He is coaching for the future. If he doesn't care about things like this now then we could make mistakes in games that are "win or die" off bad shots because someone wants to be a hero. It's great Buddy has the confidence and stroke to get use back in games and I realize the turn of events looks bad this games but that was the right thing to do by coach and Buddy still could have shot that wide open look or better yet passed it down to Bags, who was wide open by design.

Go back and watch the last play. Perfect call by Coach. Poor execution by Buddy and Barnes.

Still pic of Bags wide open
https://i.redd.it/5qgkowwbh2i21.jpg

Youtube clip of last play
https://youtu.be/N5t6s3NJDL4?t=570


Nah, Joergers got the egg face today. First off, they were down 6 and had 19 seconds to make a move on the shot that Buddy hit. This is the coach that routinely calls pick and roll plays after 10 seconds of nothing. Call a play and game over anyway. :lol:


He absolutely does not. Of course he wanted a 3 in that situation. I know you dislike him, regardless of what you say, but he can count. That was a horrible shot that went in. What if the play was to get him or Bogi and easy or easier 3. So shortsighted and revisionist to say he was wrong to want his players to run the plays and make the decisions that give them the best chance to win the game. Okay, the bad decision had a good outcome. That doesn't make it a good decision. And it doesn't negate his responsibility to have something to say to the player that made the decision.

You can see from the convo, after Buddy basically says, "...but I made it..." Coach shakes his head and drops it, walking away from him because he doesn't get the point. But when reengaged by Buddy during the foul shot he tries again when Kd is listening and egging Buddy on. I think it's more a symptom of the way many teams and star players play now days then Coach being tone def or "messing up". They get into Hero ball mode too often which leads to bad decision making and poor chances to use the team around you to improve your chance to win. But since these are great players they get away with those bad decisions too often. Look at all the out of timeout or game winning plays Coach has called for him, Bogi and Fox. Unless the play breaks down, they are left with open looks.
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Re: Game #58 Sacramento @ Golden State 

Post#22 » by SacKingZZZ » Fri Feb 22, 2019 11:58 pm

benchmobbin02 wrote:
SacKingZZZ wrote:
benchmobbin02 wrote:
People thinking they know what that convo was about need to chill out on coach. We don't! Even if it was just a plain "hey, don't shot a 30fter when we have a perfect play called and someone else was open for a better shot" then Coach is doing his job regardless of if the shot went in. He is coaching for the future. If he doesn't care about things like this now then we could make mistakes in games that are "win or die" off bad shots because someone wants to be a hero. It's great Buddy has the confidence and stroke to get use back in games and I realize the turn of events looks bad this games but that was the right thing to do by coach and Buddy still could have shot that wide open look or better yet passed it down to Bags, who was wide open by design.

Go back and watch the last play. Perfect call by Coach. Poor execution by Buddy and Barnes.

Still pic of Bags wide open
https://i.redd.it/5qgkowwbh2i21.jpg

Youtube clip of last play
https://youtu.be/N5t6s3NJDL4?t=570


Nah, Joergers got the egg face today. First off, they were down 6 and had 19 seconds to make a move on the shot that Buddy hit. This is the coach that routinely calls pick and roll plays after 10 seconds of nothing. Call a play and game over anyway. :lol:


He absolutely does not. Of course he wanted a 3 in that situation. I know you dislike him, regardless of what you say, but he can count. That was a horrible shot that went in. What if the play was to get him or Bogi and easy or easier 3. So shortsighted and revisionist to say he was wrong to want his players to run the plays and make the decisions that give them the best chance to win the game. Okay, the bad decision had a good outcome. That doesn't make it a good decision. And it doesn't negate his responsibility to have something to say to the player that made the decision.

You can see from the convo, after Buddy basically says, "...but I made it..." Coach shakes his head and drops it, walking away from him because he doesn't get the point. But when reengaged by Buddy during the foul shot he tries again when Kd is listening and egging Buddy on. I think it's more a symptom of the way many teams and star players play now days then Coach being tone def or "messing up". They get into Hero ball mode too often which leads to bad decision making and poor chances to use the team around you to improve your chance to win. But since these are great players they get away with those bad decisions too often. Look at all the out of timeout or game winning plays Coach has called for him, Bogi and Fox. Unless the play breaks down, they are left with open looks.


Are we really going to go around this circle again with yet another coach? I'm neither here nor there on him, he has his good points and bad points like anyone but I guess there must be a few people who saw the same thing that "dislike" him then too. This is about how he reacted to Buddy and how he undressed him after GETTING THEM BACK INTO THE GAME. There's nothing to debate, it happened, move on.
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Re: Game #58 Sacramento @ Golden State 

Post#23 » by SacKingZZZ » Sat Feb 23, 2019 12:14 am

I'll leave this here. Big 'ol soppy eggy mess. Timing is everything when attempting to make a point.

https://www.sacbee.com/sports/nba/sacramento-kings/article226645144.html

We'll see if they can turn it into a positive. Never know. They could grow stronger from it.
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Re: Game #58 Sacramento @ Golden State 

Post#24 » by benchmobbin02 » Sat Feb 23, 2019 1:25 am

SacKingZZZ wrote:
benchmobbin02 wrote:
SacKingZZZ wrote:
Nah, Joergers got the egg face today. First off, they were down 6 and had 19 seconds to make a move on the shot that Buddy hit. This is the coach that routinely calls pick and roll plays after 10 seconds of nothing. Call a play and game over anyway. :lol:


He absolutely does not. Of course he wanted a 3 in that situation. I know you dislike him, regardless of what you say, but he can count. That was a horrible shot that went in. What if the play was to get him or Bogi and easy or easier 3. So shortsighted and revisionist to say he was wrong to want his players to run the plays and make the decisions that give them the best chance to win the game. Okay, the bad decision had a good outcome. That doesn't make it a good decision. And it doesn't negate his responsibility to have something to say to the player that made the decision.

You can see from the convo, after Buddy basically says, "...but I made it..." Coach shakes his head and drops it, walking away from him because he doesn't get the point. But when reengaged by Buddy during the foul shot he tries again when Kd is listening and egging Buddy on. I think it's more a symptom of the way many teams and star players play now days then Coach being tone def or "messing up". They get into Hero ball mode too often which leads to bad decision making and poor chances to use the team around you to improve your chance to win. But since these are great players they get away with those bad decisions too often. Look at all the out of timeout or game winning plays Coach has called for him, Bogi and Fox. Unless the play breaks down, they are left with open looks.


Are we really going to go around this circle again with yet another coach? I'm neither here nor there on him, he has his good points and bad points like anyone but I guess there must be a few people who saw the same thing that "dislike" him then too. This is about how he reacted to Buddy and how he undressed him after GETTING THEM BACK INTO THE GAME. There's nothing to debate, it happened, move on.


Saying he undressed him is an overstated to try to influence your argument. And the "reaction" was warranted.

My opinion of YOUR feeling on Coach is informed. Not admitting that this was a teachable moment and using revisionist history to cast blame or slight on Coach for doing his job reflects on you and further informs that opinion.

But I agree that it is a small thing that happens in the NBA and the team will definitely move on. I'm hoping they take it as a building/teaching moment and everyone involved uses it.
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Re: Game #58 Sacramento @ Golden State 

Post#25 » by City of Trees » Sat Feb 23, 2019 3:19 am

I'm fine with the words Joerger used.

I'm ok with Joerger saying that during a game or in practice.

My problem was his timing.

Buddy made the shot! Bring it up once the game is over OR out of reach.

Really poor decision by Joerger. Did it cost the Kings the game I dont know... What I do know is the coach needs to be better.

I wouldn't categorize last nights argument as anything more than in the heat of the moment...but the goal is the playoffs so if you want to reach your goal the team needs a higher standard of leadership in close games late in the 4th.

Looking at you Joerger.
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Re: Game #58 Sacramento @ Golden State 

Post#26 » by City of Trees » Sat Feb 23, 2019 3:36 am

Also, props to Buddy Hield for dropping a "no comment" when asked about Joerger's yelling.

Buddy could have easily thrown Dave under the bus but chose to carry some of the burden with Joerger.

Leading by example. Well done Buddy!
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Re: Game #58 Sacramento @ Golden State 

Post#27 » by benchmobbin02 » Sat Feb 23, 2019 5:06 am

City of Trees wrote:I'm fine with the words Joerger used.

I'm ok with Joerger saying that during a game or in practice.

My problem was his timing.

Buddy made the shot! Bring it up once the game is over OR out of reach.

Really poor decision by Joerger. Did it cost the Kings the game I dont know... What I do know is the coach needs to be better.

I wouldn't categorize last nights argument as anything more than in the heat of the moment...but the goal is the playoffs so if you want to reach your goal the team needs a higher standard of leadership in close games late in the 4th.

Looking at you Joerger.


This is the most ridiculous thing I have heard regarding this issue.

Really think about what you are saying...

Joeger shouldn't correct a mistake in decision making when he sees it?

Do you think that if Coach knew him just coaching would cause Buddy to hesitate in a game winning situation, he would have do something different?

Of course. But you can't predict that. Hell, they had a timeout after that where they all stood in a huddle and Coach drew up a play to put the ball in Buddy's hands. If that doesn't say confidence, I don't know what does.

Or even that Buddy let constructive criticism from his coach rattle his confidence?

That is high school crap imo. I know this generation veers toward the more sensitive side but that is an indictment on Buddy not Coach. And maybe a reason he needs someone on a bit him to toughen him up some.
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Re: Game #58 Sacramento @ Golden State 

Post#28 » by benchmobbin02 » Sat Feb 23, 2019 5:16 am

SacKingZZZ wrote:I'll leave this here. Big 'ol soppy eggy mess. Timing is everything when attempting to make a point.

https://www.sacbee.com/sports/nba/sacramento-kings/article226645144.html

We'll see if they can turn it into a positive. Never know. They could grow stronger from it.


You know what I find interesting about that report?

It said they exchanged words for 40 seconds.

And the only sentence that made it to print was the Joeger saying, “Why don’t you just coach the f---ing team?”

No context, no lead up quote from Buddy, nothing about the tone. They could have smiled at each other after that for all we know.

Normally, when someone says something like that, it is a response to, at the least a defiant or at the worst a rebellious, comment. Or it's said sarcastically or jokingly.
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Re: Game #58 Sacramento @ Golden State 

Post#29 » by City of Trees » Sat Feb 23, 2019 5:31 am

benchmobbin02 wrote:
City of Trees wrote:I'm fine with the words Joerger used.

I'm ok with Joerger saying that during a game or in practice.

My problem was his timing.

Buddy made the shot! Bring it up once the game is over OR out of reach.

Really poor decision by Joerger. Did it cost the Kings the game I dont know... What I do know is the coach needs to be better.

I wouldn't categorize last nights argument as anything more than in the heat of the moment...but the goal is the playoffs so if you want to reach your goal the team needs a higher standard of leadership in close games late in the 4th.

Looking at you Joerger.


This is the most ridiculous thing I have heard regarding this issue.

Really think about what you are saying...

Joeger shouldn't correct a mistake in decision making when he sees it?

Do you think that if Coach knew him just coaching would cause Buddy to hesitate in a game winning situation, he would have do something different?

Of course. But you can't predict that. Hell, they had a timeout after that where they all stood in a huddle and Coach drew up a play to put the ball in Buddy's hands. If that doesn't say confidence, I don't know what does.

Or even that Buddy let constructive criticism from his coach rattle his confidence?

That is high school crap imo. I know this generation veers toward the more sensitive side but that is an indictment on Buddy not Coach. And maybe a reason he needs someone on a bit him to toughen him up some.
I think you misunderstood my point...

Yes I agree Joerger can make a coaching correction when he sees it.

The point I was making, and its probably best i present/rephrase this to you in a question, was as a coach how do you know when to table the conversation for later? Joerger made his point but continued jawing with Buddy instead of shifting the energy back into the game. The timing was highly questionable. Joerger has said previously under 2 minutes is his drug/he lives for it so naturally I have high standards for coach.

Big picture, this is a tiny blip in the radar but it's fun to discuss.
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Re: Game #58 Sacramento @ Golden State 

Post#30 » by benchmobbin02 » Sat Feb 23, 2019 6:08 am

City of Trees wrote:
benchmobbin02 wrote:
City of Trees wrote:I'm fine with the words Joerger used.

I'm ok with Joerger saying that during a game or in practice.

My problem was his timing.

Buddy made the shot! Bring it up once the game is over OR out of reach.

Really poor decision by Joerger. Did it cost the Kings the game I dont know... What I do know is the coach needs to be better.

I wouldn't categorize last nights argument as anything more than in the heat of the moment...but the goal is the playoffs so if you want to reach your goal the team needs a higher standard of leadership in close games late in the 4th.

Looking at you Joerger.


This is the most ridiculous thing I have heard regarding this issue.

Really think about what you are saying...

Joeger shouldn't correct a mistake in decision making when he sees it?

Do you think that if Coach knew him just coaching would cause Buddy to hesitate in a game winning situation, he would have do something different?

Of course. But you can't predict that. Hell, they had a timeout after that where they all stood in a huddle and Coach drew up a play to put the ball in Buddy's hands. If that doesn't say confidence, I don't know what does.

Or even that Buddy let constructive criticism from his coach rattle his confidence?

That is high school crap imo. I know this generation veers toward the more sensitive side but that is an indictment on Buddy not Coach. And maybe a reason he needs someone on a bit him to toughen him up some.
I think you misunderstood my point...

Yes I agree Joerger can make a coaching correction when he sees it.

The point I was making, and its probably best i present/rephrase this to you in a question, was as a coach how do you know when to table the conversation for later? Joerger made his point but continued jawing with Buddy instead of shifting the energy back into the game. The timing was highly questionable. Joerger has said previously under 2 minutes is his drug/he lives for it so naturally I have high standards for coach.

Big picture, this is a tiny blip in the radar but it's fun to discuss.


But we don't know that he wasn't trying to do that or that he didn't do that and Buddy continued it. You're making a judgements of a convo you didn't hear and only have one second hand quote from...

and

you're putting all the weight on Coach when two people are talking.
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Re: Game #58 Sacramento @ Golden State 

Post#31 » by City of Trees » Sat Feb 23, 2019 8:51 pm

Gotta love the Kings Social Media having a little fun with it

Read on Twitter
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Re: Game #58 Sacramento @ Golden State 

Post#32 » by SacKingZZZ » Sat Feb 23, 2019 8:53 pm

City of Trees wrote:I'm fine with the words Joerger used.

I'm ok with Joerger saying that during a game or in practice.

My problem was his timing.

Buddy made the shot! Bring it up once the game is over OR out of reach.

Really poor decision by Joerger. Did it cost the Kings the game I dont know... What I do know is the coach needs to be better.

I wouldn't categorize last nights argument as anything more than in the heat of the moment...but the goal is the playoffs so if you want to reach your goal the team needs a higher standard of leadership in close games late in the 4th.

Looking at you Joerger.



Yes, context and timing is everything. If they were up 1 or down 1, totally different thing but with the time that was left and the result Buddy was right. The other thing is you never want to cause one of the only reasons you still have a gig at the moment reason to question himself when the game is on the line. Buddy has literally carried this team at times this season with his "hero" ball. Just like any other teams leading scorer should.
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Re: Game #58 Sacramento @ Golden State 

Post#33 » by benchmobbin02 » Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:47 pm

SacKingZZZ wrote:
City of Trees wrote:I'm fine with the words Joerger used.

I'm ok with Joerger saying that during a game or in practice.

My problem was his timing.

Buddy made the shot! Bring it up once the game is over OR out of reach.

Really poor decision by Joerger. Did it cost the Kings the game I dont know... What I do know is the coach needs to be better.

I wouldn't categorize last nights argument as anything more than in the heat of the moment...but the goal is the playoffs so if you want to reach your goal the team needs a higher standard of leadership in close games late in the 4th.

Looking at you Joerger.



Yes, context and timing is everything. If they were up 1 or down 1, totally different thing but with the time that was left and the result Buddy was right. The other thing is you never want to cause one of the only reasons you still have a gig at the moment reason to question himself when the game is on the line. Buddy has literally carried this team at times this season with his "hero" ball. Just like any other teams leading scorer should.


Once again, with the glory, confidence and leading scorer mantle comes responsibility and accountability. We are lucky that Buddy made that shot but he is more likely to miss it, so it needed to be addressed.

We aren't just trying to beat the Warriors, we are trying to win rings. Coach knows this and is looking at the big big picture. If Buddy can't stay locked in when the coach ask him a question or reminds him to stay within the offense to give your squad a chance to help win the game then he isn't built for this yet and the coaching is needed more than we know.

I think this taught him a valuable lesson. He and coach even said after the game he should have shot it. He has to stay focused. What happens in the playoffs when Draymond or Chris Paul or Beverly start trying to get in his head. Is he gonna be rattled and make bad decisions?

Better he learns this now than then. This isn't high school ball and coach doesn't have to tip toe around a grown man just because there is still time on the clock. Get it corrected, accept the lesson, learn from it and go out and execute. Don't start a back and forth just because you made a terrible shot.
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Re: Game #58 Sacramento @ Golden State 

Post#34 » by benchmobbin02 » Sun Feb 24, 2019 5:55 am

https://www.sacbee.com/sports/nba/sacramento-kings/article226704764.html

So this vid interview and article clears the air and the facts.
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Re: Game #58 Sacramento @ Golden State 

Post#35 » by SacKingZZZ » Sun Feb 24, 2019 11:50 pm

Glad to hear Dave admit that he shouldn't have done that so publicly.
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Re: Game #58 Sacramento @ Golden State 

Post#36 » by BoogieTime » Sun Feb 24, 2019 11:53 pm

benchmobbin02 wrote:https://www.sacbee.com/sports/nba/sacramento-kings/article226704764.html

So this vid interview and article clears the air and the facts.


What does it clear? Joerger still apparently, needlessly got on Buddy for making that shot which made him reticent to shoot the last second shot

Joerger should allow his players to play. Hopefully he learned his lesson and won’t do it again
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Re: Game #58 Sacramento @ Golden State 

Post#37 » by benchmobbin02 » Mon Feb 25, 2019 12:01 am

BoogieTime wrote:
benchmobbin02 wrote:https://www.sacbee.com/sports/nba/sacramento-kings/article226704764.html

So this vid interview and article clears the air and the facts.


What does it clear? Joerger still apparently, needlessly got on Buddy for making that shot which made him reticent to shoot the last second shot

Joerger should allow his players to play. Hopefully he learned his lesson and won’t do it again


It clears that the discussion wasn't about shot selection and they both said that wasn't the cause of the hesitation on the last shot. Also that they agreed that he should have pulled the trigger on the 3 at the end.
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Re: Game #58 Sacramento @ Golden State 

Post#38 » by City of Trees » Mon Feb 25, 2019 1:43 am

SacKingZZZ wrote:Glad to hear Dave admit that he shouldn't have done that so publicly.
I heard that too.
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Re: Game #58 Sacramento @ Golden State 

Post#39 » by benchmobbin02 » Mon Feb 25, 2019 2:50 am

City of Trees wrote:
SacKingZZZ wrote:Glad to hear Dave admit that he shouldn't have done that so publicly.
I heard that too.


This is what I heard...

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Re: Game #58 Sacramento @ Golden State 

Post#40 » by City of Trees » Mon Feb 25, 2019 3:09 am

benchmobbin02 wrote:
City of Trees wrote:
SacKingZZZ wrote:Glad to hear Dave admit that he shouldn't have done that so publicly.
I heard that too.


This is what I heard...

At :36 he admits those conversations shouldn't happen in front of everyone.

Basically Joerger admits you shouldn't do that during the game but sometimes it happens... Which goes back to what was always my point in he should have made his point but tabled the convo for later.

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