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Biggest positive takeaway/biggest disappointment

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Re: Biggest positive takeaway/biggest disappointment 

Post#21 » by donkeylips » Mon Mar 18, 2019 11:26 pm

positive- fox's development, bagley looking way better than expected and earlier than expected, hield looking like a future star
negatives- not using the seconds to get a starting center for a playoff push
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Re: Biggest positive takeaway/biggest disappointment 

Post#22 » by simonbampfield » Wed Mar 20, 2019 1:39 am

dckingsfan wrote:
simonbampfield wrote:The way I see it we have a lot of positions set.
Fox
Buddy/Bogi
Barnes
Bagley
Giles
I don't buy into this Giles not ready narrative. By next season he will be ready. The Kings just need to stay the course and keep the running game plan. If teams think they can bully Marvin and Harry down low then try and keep up with them. There isn't a team in the league that will keep up with them in transition. People are going to be really surprised what this off season will do for Fox/Bagley/Giles.I do think we will need to sign a big on a 2 year deal to back up the 5 to play decent minutes potentially. Still I would like to see Bagley/Giles/Bjelica/Barnes as the main core at 4/5.

With you on most of it...
Fox/Ferrell/Mason
Buddy/Bogi
Barnes/??
Bagley/Giles/Bjelica/Swanigan
??

Ferrell and Mason's contracts are too good to pass up.

I agree with you that Bogi needs be the backup SG. I think he needs run a PG too?

I didn't like the Bogi experiment at SF... I didn't think it worked very well - hopefully Vlade will work his magic.

I don't agree with you that Giles should play C. He is more of a PF that Bagley. Bagley is bigger and stronger and that will become more evident as time passes. Giles is a fine weakside rim protector but not at C and you can add to that that he isn't a good enough defensive rebounder to hold that position down (generally). I actually think Giles could play some minutes at SF he worked on his 3.

My two cents - let me know where I have it wrong :D


Yes I agree with the young guys and the contracts being too good to pass up. I just think they are end of bench guys at this stage so didn't include them as we have the opportunity to sign 1-2 guys that would allow us to go 8-9 deep with strong players.
As far as Giles goes, yes you're correct about him being more of a PF, however instead of pandering to other teams and what they want us to do, I expect us to force the other team to adapt to us. And yes I think both Bagley and Giles could play a little SF if they improve the 3 ball. However there isn't anyone else worth playing next to them unless you go with the Giles/Bagley/Bjelica trio, but that can only work if Giles/Bagley can shoot the 3 ball at a good clip.
There are front offices around the league that are watching Bagley/Giles extremely closely and by trade deadline next season I expect them to start following the Kings. The thing is, you can't just go out and sign a Bagley/Giles, but you will see teams draft athletic projects from outside of the traditional system and using the G League to develop them. That is the way of the future IMO and the team that embraces it the quickest will have a good advantage once the NBA showcases the G League and lifts the salary cap to 15-20 million and is full of contracted players. Sorry, off track a fair bit there.
But all in all I agree absolutely with what you are saying. I just think Giles is a better defender at the C position than what his opponent will be at running the floor and/or keeping up with him off the dribble. He will be A LOT stronger next season so what we see now isn't what he will be in 6 months time.
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Re: Biggest positive takeaway/biggest disappointment 

Post#23 » by RipPizzaGuy » Wed Mar 20, 2019 2:33 am

dckingsfan wrote:
simonbampfield wrote:The way I see it we have a lot of positions set.
Fox
Buddy/Bogi
Barnes
Bagley
Giles
I don't buy into this Giles not ready narrative. By next season he will be ready. The Kings just need to stay the course and keep the running game plan. If teams think they can bully Marvin and Harry down low then try and keep up with them. There isn't a team in the league that will keep up with them in transition. People are going to be really surprised what this off season will do for Fox/Bagley/Giles.I do think we will need to sign a big on a 2 year deal to back up the 5 to play decent minutes potentially. Still I would like to see Bagley/Giles/Bjelica/Barnes as the main core at 4/5.

With you on most of it...
Fox/Ferrell/Mason
Buddy/Bogi
Barnes/??
Bagley/Giles/Bjelica/Swanigan
??

Ferrell and Mason's contracts are too good to pass up.

I agree with you that Bogi needs be the backup SG. I think he needs run a PG too?

I didn't like the Bogi experiment at SF... I didn't think it worked very well - hopefully Vlade will work his magic.

I don't agree with you that Giles should play C. He is more of a PF that Bagley. Bagley is bigger and stronger and that will become more evident as time passes. Giles is a fine weakside rim protector but not at C and you can add to that that he isn't a good enough defensive rebounder to hold that position down (generally). I actually think Giles could play some minutes at SF he worked on his 3.

My two cents - let me know where I have it wrong :D
Giles and bagley both play their best when on the floor together. Giles a great passer, Bagley a great rebounder, both can play from top or inside.

I'd throw up in my mouth if coach ever decided to play either one of these guys at the 3. They would get blown off the court.

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Re: Biggest positive takeaway/biggest disappointment 

Post#24 » by Duke4life831 » Wed Mar 20, 2019 2:49 am

RipPizzaGuy wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:
simonbampfield wrote:The way I see it we have a lot of positions set.
Fox
Buddy/Bogi
Barnes
Bagley
Giles
I don't buy into this Giles not ready narrative. By next season he will be ready. The Kings just need to stay the course and keep the running game plan. If teams think they can bully Marvin and Harry down low then try and keep up with them. There isn't a team in the league that will keep up with them in transition. People are going to be really surprised what this off season will do for Fox/Bagley/Giles.I do think we will need to sign a big on a 2 year deal to back up the 5 to play decent minutes potentially. Still I would like to see Bagley/Giles/Bjelica/Barnes as the main core at 4/5.

With you on most of it...
Fox/Ferrell/Mason
Buddy/Bogi
Barnes/??
Bagley/Giles/Bjelica/Swanigan
??

Ferrell and Mason's contracts are too good to pass up.

I agree with you that Bogi needs be the backup SG. I think he needs run a PG too?

I didn't like the Bogi experiment at SF... I didn't think it worked very well - hopefully Vlade will work his magic.

I don't agree with you that Giles should play C. He is more of a PF that Bagley. Bagley is bigger and stronger and that will become more evident as time passes. Giles is a fine weakside rim protector but not at C and you can add to that that he isn't a good enough defensive rebounder to hold that position down (generally). I actually think Giles could play some minutes at SF he worked on his 3.

My two cents - let me know where I have it wrong :D
Giles and bagley both play their best when on the floor together. Giles a great passer, Bagley a great rebounder, both can play from top or inside.

I'd throw up in my mouth if coach ever decided to play either one of these guys at the 3. They would get blown off the court.

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Ya I think a big body like a Baynes or Robin Lopez on the bench would be perfect. But ya I see no reason why the Bagley/Giles front court won't work.

Offense they work very well and it should only get better with Bagley improving from 3. Defensively Bagley moves more than well enough to chase 4s on he perimeter.
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Re: Biggest positive takeaway/biggest disappointment 

Post#25 » by simonbampfield » Wed Mar 20, 2019 4:39 am

RipPizzaGuy wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:
simonbampfield wrote:The way I see it we have a lot of positions set.
Fox
Buddy/Bogi
Barnes
Bagley
Giles
I don't buy into this Giles not ready narrative. By next season he will be ready. The Kings just need to stay the course and keep the running game plan. If teams think they can bully Marvin and Harry down low then try and keep up with them. There isn't a team in the league that will keep up with them in transition. People are going to be really surprised what this off season will do for Fox/Bagley/Giles.I do think we will need to sign a big on a 2 year deal to back up the 5 to play decent minutes potentially. Still I would like to see Bagley/Giles/Bjelica/Barnes as the main core at 4/5.

With you on most of it...
Fox/Ferrell/Mason
Buddy/Bogi
Barnes/??
Bagley/Giles/Bjelica/Swanigan
??

Ferrell and Mason's contracts are too good to pass up.

I agree with you that Bogi needs be the backup SG. I think he needs run a PG too?

I didn't like the Bogi experiment at SF... I didn't think it worked very well - hopefully Vlade will work his magic.

I don't agree with you that Giles should play C. He is more of a PF that Bagley. Bagley is bigger and stronger and that will become more evident as time passes. Giles is a fine weakside rim protector but not at C and you can add to that that he isn't a good enough defensive rebounder to hold that position down (generally). I actually think Giles could play some minutes at SF he worked on his 3.

My two cents - let me know where I have it wrong :D
Giles and bagley both play their best when on the floor together. Giles a great passer, Bagley a great rebounder, both can play from top or inside.

I'd throw up in my mouth if coach ever decided to play either one of these guys at the 3. They would get blown off the court.

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I also see it as Bagley is going to be our best player. You play him in his best position which is PF. Giles is also more of a PF, however they are just so damn good together you play Giles at the 5.
Even though everyone would realize this you need to keep on reminding yourself of it. Giles and Bagley have shown tremendous chemistry in fewer than what, 600 minutes in the NBA together? (I'm not sure on the exact minutes they have been on the court together, but it would be quite low).
That goes to show just how good these two are. It's going to be completely insane by like 2020-21. Next season is going to be unreal too and we will make the POs.
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Re: Biggest positive takeaway/biggest disappointment 

Post#26 » by dckingsfan » Wed Mar 20, 2019 1:19 pm

Sounds like a Bagley/Giles FC it is... I think that doesn't address our biggest weakness - rebounding and rim protection.

I do see the other side of having a stretch FC - but then Giles really needs to start hitting 3 pointers. I personally would rather see Giles as the backup PF and big ball 3 - but that would require actually obtaining a true stretch C in the off-season (Nikola Vucevic).

I also don't want to see Giles pounded into oblivion playing C due to his knees - but maybe I am a worrywart on that one :D

Jury is out though - let's see what Giles can do this off-season.
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Re: Biggest positive takeaway/biggest disappointment 

Post#27 » by simonbampfield » Thu Mar 21, 2019 4:50 am

dckingsfan wrote:Sounds like a Bagley/Giles FC it is... I think that doesn't address our biggest weakness - rebounding and rim protection.

I do see the other side of having a stretch FC - but then Giles really needs to start hitting 3 pointers. I personally would rather see Giles as the backup PF and big ball 3 - but that would require actually obtaining a true stretch C in the off-season (Nikola Vucevic).

I also don't want to see Giles pounded into oblivion playing C due to his knees - but maybe I am a worrywart on that one :D

Jury is out though - let's see what Giles can do this off-season.


Personally I hope we don't go near Vucevic in the off season.
Don't stress about the rebounding and interior D, they will be fine long term, not next season, but long term. Ideally we need a backup C with lots of size and mongrel that can play well for 10-12 mpg next season and less than that the following year. I'm wondering if Aaron Baynes has got enough left in him for a solid 2 year offer 2/15. He is a guy that knows his role and in 2020-21 would be a nice filler expiring contract.
The thing is, even next season this group is extremely young. They have so much to develop and it's going to be a fair while before they hit that consistent veteran stage.
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Re: Biggest positive takeaway/biggest disappointment 

Post#28 » by BoogieTime » Thu Mar 21, 2019 4:51 am

Positives -

Buddy - I knew he was starter quality and wanted him starting the entire time, and felt the sentiment of relegating him to the bench was disrespectful. I thought he’d put up “18-5-3” starting, surpassed it. How much farther can he take it?

Bagley - While it’s still questionable if he was the best pick, has been showing star things and alleviating concern I had in the summer that he could be a very good player.

Slightly positive -

Fox - Appreciate him making a jump from last year to this year. Still drives me crazy with “imprint” and questioning the reason for the change of play from the first 1.5 months when he was showing potential superstar things, to the potential borderline all star things he’s been showing lately.

Neutral -

Barnes - Not chucking here. Not a bad player, but can he be good enough to be a very solid piece going forward?

Giles - Not as high on him as the General fanbase, and hasn’t risen to the hype (the hype not being his fault). SHows innate dawg and offensive skill. Needs to improve athleticism, consistency, protecting paint. I’m on the fence, so I’ll go with the flow and trust the general sentiment is onto something.

Yogi - Has heart, but lacks in other areas

Negatives -

“14 feet” of lack of motor/defense from WCS/Beli who need to be out. Beli getting fatter somehow as season progresses

Bogdan - I still think he can bounce back, hope his decline not due to permanent injury

Mason - non nba

Kosta - regressed
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Re: Biggest positive takeaway/biggest disappointment 

Post#29 » by bleeds_purple » Thu Mar 21, 2019 5:03 am

BoogieTime wrote:Fox - Appreciate him making a jump from last year to this year. Still drives me crazy with “imprint” and questioning the reason for the change of play from the first 1.5 months when he was showing potential superstar things, to the potential borderline all star things he’s been showing lately.


It's weird to me that you bash Fox every single game. You have completely unrealistic expectations for a 21 year old second-year PG.

March is easily Fox's best month of the season. Early on he broke out. Teams adjusted how to defend him (i.e. he was good enough teams actually started game planning specifically for him). It took some time but now he has adjusted.

His mid-range and three point shot are miles ahead of where he was at the beginning of the year (I suspect mostly a confidence thing based on the way he hesitates with it at times) and once he's completely comfortable with that shot he will be basically unguardable.

In five years its gonna be Fox, Trae, and D'Lo owning the position. 8-)
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Re: Biggest positive takeaway/biggest disappointment 

Post#30 » by BoogieTime » Thu Mar 21, 2019 6:06 am

bleeds_purple wrote:
BoogieTime wrote:Fox - Appreciate him making a jump from last year to this year. Still drives me crazy with “imprint” and questioning the reason for the change of play from the first 1.5 months when he was showing potential superstar things, to the potential borderline all star things he’s been showing lately.


It's weird to me that you bash Fox every single game. You have completely unrealistic expectations for a 21 year old second-year PG.

March is easily Fox's best month of the season. Early on he broke out. Teams adjusted how to defend him (i.e. he was good enough teams actually started game planning specifically for him). It took some time but now he has adjusted.

His mid-range and three point shot are miles ahead of where he was at the beginning of the year (I suspect mostly a confidence thing based on the way he hesitates with it at times) and once he's completely comfortable with that shot he will be basically unguardable.

In five years its gonna be Fox, Trae, and D'Lo owning the position. 8-)


Teams adjusted to how they defended him? I think that’s perception for a curtail in play, yeah?

Honestly, he drives me crazy because I know he has the capability of flashing highly talented, superstar type, stuff, but does it now erratically. I personally feel there has been a palpable change in aggression from the first stint of the year, to the other parts of the year. And it mirrors last year in that regard. To me, either he’s physically underdeveloped and can’t quite handle the rigors, especially with the pace the team played at. Or, there is some type of aggression/motor issue here. At this point I’m hoping for the former

March has been his best month? I’m not sure I’d agree.

He will be good, hopefully in the future we can see a consistency in play throughout the year though
I agree though he has the ‘talent’ to be a top PG at least
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Re: Biggest positive takeaway/biggest disappointment 

Post#31 » by dckingsfan » Thu Mar 21, 2019 2:29 pm

simonbampfield wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:Sounds like a Bagley/Giles FC it is... I think that doesn't address our biggest weakness - rebounding and rim protection.

I do see the other side of having a stretch FC - but then Giles really needs to start hitting 3 pointers. I personally would rather see Giles as the backup PF and big ball 3 - but that would require actually obtaining a true stretch C in the off-season (Nikola Vucevic).

I also don't want to see Giles pounded into oblivion playing C due to his knees - but maybe I am a worrywart on that one :D

Jury is out though - let's see what Giles can do this off-season.

Personally I hope we don't go near Vucevic in the off season. Don't stress about the rebounding and interior D, they will be fine long term, not next season, but long term. Ideally we need a backup C with lots of size and mongrel that can play well for 10-12 mpg next season and less than that the following year. I'm wondering if Aaron Baynes has got enough left in him for a solid 2 year offer 2/15. He is a guy that knows his role and in 2020-21 would be a nice filler expiring contract. The thing is, even next season this group is extremely young. They have so much to develop and it's going to be a fair while before they hit that consistent veteran stage.

I appreciate your take - but I disagree. We will barely (or not) eek into a playoff spot in the west without a legit defensive rebounder. Giles just isn't that...

Either way it will be fun watching what Vlade does - at least it is interesting now :D
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Re: Biggest positive takeaway/biggest disappointment 

Post#32 » by dckingsfan » Thu Mar 21, 2019 2:33 pm

BTW, I would say March (thus far) has been Fox's best month... TS% is up - A/TO ratio still good and his D has been outstanding. I thought he would crash about now with all the minutes... and in case you are wondering what his trajectory looks like:

Code: Select all

Season   TS%    DRB%   AST%   STL%   BLK%   TOV%   USG%    WS/48   VORP
17-18   0.478   10.0   24.6   1.7    0.9   16.4    23.4   -0.014   -1.2
18-19   0.550   10.6   32.4   2.4    1.4   15.5    24.5    0.107    1.7


Truly outstanding young man...
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Re: Biggest positive takeaway/biggest disappointment 

Post#33 » by SactoKingsFan » Sun Mar 24, 2019 11:32 pm

Positives:

Overall team improvement - Going from a pretty bad team with -7 MOV to a borderline playoff team with barely negative MOV is a big deal. Another underwhelming season with no direction would have been depressing.

Fox - Made a big leap after a disappointing rookie season. Hasn't been 100% consistent but the positives heavily outweigh the negatives this season. Will probably be in the mix for All-D Team at some point. Can be scary good with higher volume 3PT shooting, higher FTr, a bit more aggressiveness and some added strength.

Buddy - Has had a really nice season as the go to scorer and top tier long range shooter. His all around game is also coming together better than expected.

Bagley - Has shown enough star potential to justify going #2 in a pretty good draft.

Bjelica - Cooled off after a crazy hot start. Still a valuable role player on a team friendly contract.

Joerger - Opened up the offense and finally embraced pace and space which plays to the strengths of the young core. Also think he's had a positive influence on the development of most of the young guys.

Neutral:

Willie - Hasn't had a breakout season but that was probably unrealistic expectation. Still think WCS has been better than how he's talked about. We had fans getting excited about adding a clearly worse big just to make a change.

Bogi - Has struggled lately but still had his share of good play this season. Can't blame him for having to play out of position. Only a major disappointment if you were expecting something like the next Manu which was always ridiculous.

Giles - Made strides to look like he belongs in the league. Still not sure all the hype is appropriate for what we've actually seen. Athleticism is lacking after the injuries and that might only improve so much.

Barnes - Has been fine so far and fills a need but doesn't really move the needle.

Negatives:

Trading Shumpert - Thought this might be a mistake when it went down and it was. Shump made a positive impact on and off the court. Would have been happy to have him back on a reasonable contract. Burks is pretty much a non factor on this team.

Mason - Thought he might be the future backup PG but that looks unlikely. Just not very good.


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Re: Biggest positive takeaway/biggest disappointment 

Post#34 » by dckingsfan » Mon Mar 25, 2019 12:52 am

SactoKingsFan wrote:Neutral:
Barnes - Has been fine so far and fills a need but doesn't really move the needle.

Negatives:
Trading Shumpert - Thought this might be a mistake when it went down and it was. Shump made a positive impact on and off the court. Would have been happy to have him back on a reasonable contract. Burks is pretty much a non factor on this team.

I am cherry picking a bit - but I strongly agreed with the rest of your post - and this part too actually. I think Vlade is also a Positive for the season.

But... I don't think the trade deadline moves helped us. Barnes for Shumpert really didn't get it done. And I don't love Barnes as the starting SF next year (I could easily be wrong - Barnes, make me eat shoe leather).

Of course you never know what was available so speculation is generally unhelpful... but I think he should have just stayed put. Just curious, is that your opinion too or did you think we should brought in someone different for Shump and Jackson?
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Re: Biggest positive takeaway/biggest disappointment 

Post#35 » by BoogieTime » Mon Mar 25, 2019 1:21 am

SactoKingsFan wrote:
Willie - Hasn't had a breakout season but that was probably unrealistic expectation. Still think WCS has been better than how he's talked about. We had fans getting excited about adding a clearly worse big just to make a change.


There is no clearly worse. He’s a joke. But we’ve been there before
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Re: Biggest positive takeaway/biggest disappointment 

Post#36 » by SacKingZZZ » Mon Mar 25, 2019 1:23 am

dckingsfan wrote:
SactoKingsFan wrote:Neutral:
Barnes - Has been fine so far and fills a need but doesn't really move the needle.

Negatives:
Trading Shumpert - Thought this might be a mistake when it went down and it was. Shump made a positive impact on and off the court. Would have been happy to have him back on a reasonable contract. Burks is pretty much a non factor on this team.

I am cherry picking a bit - but I strongly agreed with the rest of your post - and this part too actually. I think Vlade is also a Positive for the season.

But... I don't think the trade deadline moves helped us. Barnes for Shumpert really didn't get it done. And I don't love Barnes as the starting SF next year (I could easily be wrong - Barnes, make me eat shoe leather).

Of course you never know what was available so speculation is generally unhelpful... but I think he should have just stayed put. Just curious, is that your opinion too or did you think we should brought in someone different for Shump and Jackson?



He already should be. He's playing great defense and now up to around 15 and 6 on good percentages for the year and 18 and 6 in the last 10 games on great percentages while not destroying the Kings offense in the process. He's a perfect fit. Getting Barnes was a coup. He's overpaid but the Kings can absorb that next year and still get something done in FA.

Shump was good for the team but don't think for one second that this isn't anything more than the Kings system getting janked up lately and the Kings inability to adjust late in games. With the way things have gone I think the Kings could have totally fallen apart without Barnes' production had they left things as is. It was already starting to happen prior to the deadline anyway with Bogdan and Buddy starting to wear down.
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Re: Biggest positive takeaway/biggest disappointment 

Post#37 » by SactoKingsFan » Mon Mar 25, 2019 1:31 am

dckingsfan wrote:
SactoKingsFan wrote:Neutral:
Barnes - Has been fine so far and fills a need but doesn't really move the needle.

Negatives:
Trading Shumpert - Thought this might be a mistake when it went down and it was. Shump made a positive impact on and off the court. Would have been happy to have him back on a reasonable contract. Burks is pretty much a non factor on this team.

I am cherry picking a bit - but I strongly agreed with the rest of your post - and this part too actually. I think Vlade is also a Positive for the season.

But... I don't think the trade deadline moves helped us. Barnes for Shumpert really didn't get it done. And I don't love Barnes as the starting SF next year (I could easily be wrong - Barnes, make me eat shoe leather).

Of course you never know what was available so speculation is generally unhelpful... but I think he should have just stayed put. Just curious, is that your opinion too or did you think we should brought in someone different for Shump and Jackson?
Vlade has been a positive. His fingerprints are all over the improvements this season.

Wasn't crazy about the Barnes addition either. However, he has picked up his play lately and provides some flexibility on both ends. Not sure I'd want to sign Barnes to a long term contract.

I also would have stayed put at the trade deadline unless a more significant trade like Otto Porter could have been made without giving much up.

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Re: Biggest positive takeaway/biggest disappointment 

Post#38 » by dckingsfan » Mon Mar 25, 2019 1:23 pm

SacKingZZZ wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:
SactoKingsFan wrote:Neutral:
Barnes - Has been fine so far and fills a need but doesn't really move the needle.

Negatives:
Trading Shumpert - Thought this might be a mistake when it went down and it was. Shump made a positive impact on and off the court. Would have been happy to have him back on a reasonable contract. Burks is pretty much a non factor on this team.

I am cherry picking a bit - but I strongly agreed with the rest of your post - and this part too actually. I think Vlade is also a Positive for the season.

But... I don't think the trade deadline moves helped us. Barnes for Shumpert really didn't get it done. And I don't love Barnes as the starting SF next year (I could easily be wrong - Barnes, make me eat shoe leather).

Of course you never know what was available so speculation is generally unhelpful... but I think he should have just stayed put. Just curious, is that your opinion too or did you think we should brought in someone different for Shump and Jackson?



He already should be. He's playing great defense and now up to around 15 and 6 on good percentages for the year and 18 and 6 in the last 10 games on great percentages while not destroying the Kings offense in the process. He's a perfect fit. Getting Barnes was a coup. He's overpaid but the Kings can absorb that next year and still get something done in FA.

Shump was good for the team but don't think for one second that this isn't anything more than the Kings system getting janked up lately and the Kings inability to adjust late in games. With the way things have gone I think the Kings could have totally fallen apart without Barnes' production had they left things as is. It was already starting to happen prior to the deadline anyway with Bogdan and Buddy starting to wear down.

29-26 and are now 36-37. So 7-11 since he joined the team. I think that is because teammates had to get used to playing with him and it felt like he was pressing early on.

His February weren't very good. And that was that.

But you are right, his March splits look very solid. TSS .670; A/TO ratio of nearly 2; nice D. But, he only pulls in 5 defensive boards in his 35 min/gm.

So, I would argue that he really didn't solve the issue that the Kings have namely defensive rebounding - we are ranked 29th out of 30 teams in terms of total defensive rebounds and 26th in terms of DRB%. Therefore I would rather have done nothing and waited for free agency.

But I respect your opinion - which I think is that Barnes will be a solid starting SF next year and we can go after a defensive rebounding big in the off-season?
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Re: Biggest positive takeaway/biggest disappointment 

Post#39 » by SacKingZZZ » Mon Mar 25, 2019 10:00 pm

dckingsfan wrote:
SacKingZZZ wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:I am cherry picking a bit - but I strongly agreed with the rest of your post - and this part too actually. I think Vlade is also a Positive for the season.

But... I don't think the trade deadline moves helped us. Barnes for Shumpert really didn't get it done. And I don't love Barnes as the starting SF next year (I could easily be wrong - Barnes, make me eat shoe leather).

Of course you never know what was available so speculation is generally unhelpful... but I think he should have just stayed put. Just curious, is that your opinion too or did you think we should brought in someone different for Shump and Jackson?



He already should be. He's playing great defense and now up to around 15 and 6 on good percentages for the year and 18 and 6 in the last 10 games on great percentages while not destroying the Kings offense in the process. He's a perfect fit. Getting Barnes was a coup. He's overpaid but the Kings can absorb that next year and still get something done in FA.

Shump was good for the team but don't think for one second that this isn't anything more than the Kings system getting janked up lately and the Kings inability to adjust late in games. With the way things have gone I think the Kings could have totally fallen apart without Barnes' production had they left things as is. It was already starting to happen prior to the deadline anyway with Bogdan and Buddy starting to wear down.

29-26 and are now 36-37. So 7-11 since he joined the team. I think that is because teammates had to get used to playing with him and it felt like he was pressing early on.

His February weren't very good. And that was that.

But you are right, his March splits look very solid. TSS .670; A/TO ratio of nearly 2; nice D. But, he only pulls in 5 defensive boards in his 35 min/gm.

So, I would argue that he really didn't solve the issue that the Kings have namely defensive rebounding - we are ranked 29th out of 30 teams in terms of total defensive rebounds and 26th in terms of DRB%. Therefore I would rather have done nothing and waited for free agency.

But I respect your opinion - which I think is that Barnes will be a solid starting SF next year and we can go after a defensive rebounding big in the off-season?


The rebounding has more to do with the big men as you mention and getting a rebounding big would help but before you get a rebound you must first get stops. Even as is the Kings are middle of the road in overall rebound percentage and are in the upper half in RPG. They are 9th in offensive boards and in the middle in defensive boards so it's not terrible but teams do score more on put backs than they should. The bigger issue should be defensive stops. Since Barnes has come aboard the Kings defensive rating standing has gone way up and his individual ability to lock down two or three positions has certainly been a part of that. They were 18th in defensive rating prior to the deadline and now they are 9th. Other than that, you can't really expect anything more from Barnes. Also the Bagley injury and schedule surely had some say in their record as well.
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Re: Biggest positive takeaway/biggest disappointment 

Post#40 » by dckingsfan » Mon Mar 25, 2019 11:47 pm

SacKingZZZ wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:
SacKingZZZ wrote:

He already should be. He's playing great defense and now up to around 15 and 6 on good percentages for the year and 18 and 6 in the last 10 games on great percentages while not destroying the Kings offense in the process. He's a perfect fit. Getting Barnes was a coup. He's overpaid but the Kings can absorb that next year and still get something done in FA.

Shump was good for the team but don't think for one second that this isn't anything more than the Kings system getting janked up lately and the Kings inability to adjust late in games. With the way things have gone I think the Kings could have totally fallen apart without Barnes' production had they left things as is. It was already starting to happen prior to the deadline anyway with Bogdan and Buddy starting to wear down.

29-26 and are now 36-37. So 7-11 since he joined the team. I think that is because teammates had to get used to playing with him and it felt like he was pressing early on.

His February weren't very good. And that was that.

But you are right, his March splits look very solid. TSS .670; A/TO ratio of nearly 2; nice D. But, he only pulls in 5 defensive boards in his 35 min/gm.

So, I would argue that he really didn't solve the issue that the Kings have namely defensive rebounding - we are ranked 29th out of 30 teams in terms of total defensive rebounds and 26th in terms of DRB%. Therefore I would rather have done nothing and waited for free agency.

But I respect your opinion - which I think is that Barnes will be a solid starting SF next year and we can go after a defensive rebounding big in the off-season?


The rebounding has more to do with the big men as you mention and getting a rebounding big would help but before you get a rebound you must first get stops. Even as is the Kings are middle of the road in overall rebound percentage and are in the upper half in RPG. They are 9th in offensive boards and in the middle in defensive boards so it's not terrible but teams do score more on put backs than they should. The bigger issue should be defensive stops. Since Barnes has come aboard the Kings defensive rating standing has gone way up and his individual ability to lock down two or three positions has certainly been a part of that. They were 18th in defensive rating prior to the deadline and now they are 9th. Other than that, you can't really expect anything more from Barnes. Also the Bagley injury and schedule surely had some say in their record as well.

Where did you get the stats on DRtg? The only one I have used is basketball-reference - I think they still have the Kings with rated at 16th at 110.2.

Also, haven't we been really good at forcing TO perspective and reasonably decent with respect to eFG%? Wouldn't the eFG% be really good if it weren't for the putbacks?

And individually speaking, it seems like Barnes DRtg and DBPM point a different direction?

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