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Biggest positive takeaway/biggest disappointment

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Re: Biggest positive takeaway/biggest disappointment  

Post#41 » by City of Trees » Tue Mar 26, 2019 1:10 am

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Re: Biggest positive takeaway/biggest disappointment 

Post#42 » by SacKingZZZ » Tue Mar 26, 2019 11:30 pm

dckingsfan wrote:
SacKingZZZ wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:29-26 and are now 36-37. So 7-11 since he joined the team. I think that is because teammates had to get used to playing with him and it felt like he was pressing early on.

His February weren't very good. And that was that.

But you are right, his March splits look very solid. TSS .670; A/TO ratio of nearly 2; nice D. But, he only pulls in 5 defensive boards in his 35 min/gm.

So, I would argue that he really didn't solve the issue that the Kings have namely defensive rebounding - we are ranked 29th out of 30 teams in terms of total defensive rebounds and 26th in terms of DRB%. Therefore I would rather have done nothing and waited for free agency.

But I respect your opinion - which I think is that Barnes will be a solid starting SF next year and we can go after a defensive rebounding big in the off-season?


The rebounding has more to do with the big men as you mention and getting a rebounding big would help but before you get a rebound you must first get stops. Even as is the Kings are middle of the road in overall rebound percentage and are in the upper half in RPG. They are 9th in offensive boards and in the middle in defensive boards so it's not terrible but teams do score more on put backs than they should. The bigger issue should be defensive stops. Since Barnes has come aboard the Kings defensive rating standing has gone way up and his individual ability to lock down two or three positions has certainly been a part of that. They were 18th in defensive rating prior to the deadline and now they are 9th. Other than that, you can't really expect anything more from Barnes. Also the Bagley injury and schedule surely had some say in their record as well.

Where did you get the stats on DRtg? The only one I have used is basketball-reference - I think they still have the Kings with rated at 16th at 110.2.

Also, haven't we been really good at forcing TO perspective and reasonably decent with respect to eFG%? Wouldn't the eFG% be really good if it weren't for the putbacks?

And individually speaking, it seems like Barnes DRtg and DBPM point a different direction?


NBA's website and I was talking about the standing relative to the rest of the league right now. Personally, I'm not a huge fan of advanced stats and with the way Joerger flip flops his lineups around it's even hard to gauge true impact stats but with Barnes the eyes can tell you he can D up.
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Re: Biggest positive takeaway/biggest disappointment 

Post#43 » by simonbampfield » Wed Mar 27, 2019 2:30 am

SacKingZZZ wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:
SacKingZZZ wrote:
The rebounding has more to do with the big men as you mention and getting a rebounding big would help but before you get a rebound you must first get stops. Even as is the Kings are middle of the road in overall rebound percentage and are in the upper half in RPG. They are 9th in offensive boards and in the middle in defensive boards so it's not terrible but teams do score more on put backs than they should. The bigger issue should be defensive stops. Since Barnes has come aboard the Kings defensive rating standing has gone way up and his individual ability to lock down two or three positions has certainly been a part of that. They were 18th in defensive rating prior to the deadline and now they are 9th. Other than that, you can't really expect anything more from Barnes. Also the Bagley injury and schedule surely had some say in their record as well.

Where did you get the stats on DRtg? The only one I have used is basketball-reference - I think they still have the Kings with rated at 16th at 110.2.

Also, haven't we been really good at forcing TO perspective and reasonably decent with respect to eFG%? Wouldn't the eFG% be really good if it weren't for the putbacks?

And individually speaking, it seems like Barnes DRtg and DBPM point a different direction?


NBA's website and I was talking about the standing relative to the rest of the league right now. Personally, I'm not a huge fan of advanced stats and with the way Joerger flip flops his lineups around it's even hard to gauge true impact stats but with Barnes the eyes can tell you he can D up.


Yes he can. He has fitted into his role better than what I thought he would. The challenge now will be to maintain that.

It's funny how Dallas fans wanted to do anything to get Barnes off the roster, however now I am seeing more people bring up the fact Barnes and Jordan are gone as reasons why Luka's D has dropped.
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Re: Biggest positive takeaway/biggest disappointment  

Post#44 » by shi-woo » Wed Mar 27, 2019 7:39 pm

Glad to see Sac fans appreciating Barnes. He's not a super star, but I think Vlade made a great move in bringing him in.

You guys don't have a pick this year, so the growth of Buddy, Fox, and Bagley is instrumental to future success. They are all coming around nicely, and having a versatile veteran who played 4th banana on arguably the greatest team of this generation, is going to be nice. He won't be asked to do too much out of his skillset, and is a stand up guy.

If you guys can add a solid veteran at center than I'd be thrilled if I was a Kings fan.

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Re: Biggest positive takeaway/biggest disappointment 

Post#45 » by dckingsfan » Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:09 pm

shi-woo wrote:Glad to see Sac fans appreciating Barnes. He's not a super star, but I think Vlade made a great move in bringing him in.

You guys don't have a pick this year, so the growth of Buddy, Fox, and Bagley is instrumental to future success. They are all coming around nicely, and having a versatile veteran who played 4th banana on arguably the greatest team of this generation, is going to be nice. He won't be asked to do too much out of his skillset, and is a stand up guy.

If you guys can add a solid veteran at center than I'd be thrilled if I was a Kings fan.

This - and don't forget that Bogs and Giles could take a step too. But yes, yes, yes to a C.
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Re: Biggest positive takeaway/biggest disappointment 

Post#46 » by RipPizzaGuy » Thu Mar 28, 2019 1:52 am

SacKingZZZ wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:
SactoKingsFan wrote:Neutral:
Barnes - Has been fine so far and fills a need but doesn't really move the needle.

Negatives:
Trading Shumpert - Thought this might be a mistake when it went down and it was. Shump made a positive impact on and off the court. Would have been happy to have him back on a reasonable contract. Burks is pretty much a non factor on this team.

I am cherry picking a bit - but I strongly agreed with the rest of your post - and this part too actually. I think Vlade is also a Positive for the season.

But... I don't think the trade deadline moves helped us. Barnes for Shumpert really didn't get it done. And I don't love Barnes as the starting SF next year (I could easily be wrong - Barnes, make me eat shoe leather).

Of course you never know what was available so speculation is generally unhelpful... but I think he should have just stayed put. Just curious, is that your opinion too or did you think we should brought in someone different for Shump and Jackson?



He already should be. He's playing great defense and now up to around 15 and 6 on good percentages for the year and 18 and 6 in the last 10 games on great percentages while not destroying the Kings offense in the process. He's a perfect fit. Getting Barnes was a coup. He's overpaid but the Kings can absorb that next year and still get something done in FA.

Shump was good for the team but don't think for one second that this isn't anything more than the Kings system getting janked up lately and the Kings inability to adjust late in games. With the way things have gone I think the Kings could have totally fallen apart without Barnes' production had they left things as is. It was already starting to happen prior to the deadline anyway with Bogdan and Buddy starting to wear down.
Ya I'm absolutely shocked people arent satisfied with barnes. He got off to a rocky start but that's to be expected changing young teams at the deadline and completely changing his role.

I love barnes and was a big skeptic. He fits our team needs like a charm. For us to be great, fox/bagley are the catalysts. Buddy has to be the #2 scorer and do so efficiently and more consistently. Barnes plays his role to a T, great defender, can post up, can shoot 3s, switches well between the 3 and 4 spots. Love that addition, especially for the insanely low price.

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Re: Biggest positive takeaway/biggest disappointment 

Post#47 » by dckingsfan » Thu Mar 28, 2019 1:30 pm

RipPizzaGuy wrote:
SacKingZZZ wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:I am cherry picking a bit - but I strongly agreed with the rest of your post - and this part too actually. I think Vlade is also a Positive for the season.

But... I don't think the trade deadline moves helped us. Barnes for Shumpert really didn't get it done. And I don't love Barnes as the starting SF next year (I could easily be wrong - Barnes, make me eat shoe leather).

Of course you never know what was available so speculation is generally unhelpful... but I think he should have just stayed put. Just curious, is that your opinion too or did you think we should brought in someone different for Shump and Jackson?

He already should be. He's playing great defense and now up to around 15 and 6 on good percentages for the year and 18 and 6 in the last 10 games on great percentages while not destroying the Kings offense in the process. He's a perfect fit. Getting Barnes was a coup. He's overpaid but the Kings can absorb that next year and still get something done in FA.

Shump was good for the team but don't think for one second that this isn't anything more than the Kings system getting janked up lately and the Kings inability to adjust late in games. With the way things have gone I think the Kings could have totally fallen apart without Barnes' production had they left things as is. It was already starting to happen prior to the deadline anyway with Bogdan and Buddy starting to wear down.
Ya I'm absolutely shocked people arent satisfied with barnes. He got off to a rocky start but that's to be expected changing young teams at the deadline and completely changing his role.

I love barnes and was a big skeptic. He fits our team needs like a charm. For us to be great, fox/bagley are the catalysts. Buddy has to be the #2 scorer and do so efficiently and more consistently. Barnes plays his role to a T, great defender, can post up, can shoot 3s, switches well between the 3 and 4 spots. Love that addition, especially for the insanely low price.

I think the point made in previous posts was that the trades didn't get us into the playoffs. That immediately after the trades in February - we didn't play so well and that was that.

Having said that and as poorly as Barnes played in February, he is playing really well in March.

Also, I wouldn't call him inexpensive. And I would still argue that our number one priority is a big that can rebound and stretch the floor. Having said that - if he keeps playing like he has in March - then we get to do a happy dance.
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Re: Biggest positive takeaway/biggest disappointment 

Post#48 » by RipPizzaGuy » Thu Mar 28, 2019 7:56 pm

dckingsfan wrote:
RipPizzaGuy wrote:
SacKingZZZ wrote:He already should be. He's playing great defense and now up to around 15 and 6 on good percentages for the year and 18 and 6 in the last 10 games on great percentages while not destroying the Kings offense in the process. He's a perfect fit. Getting Barnes was a coup. He's overpaid but the Kings can absorb that next year and still get something done in FA.

Shump was good for the team but don't think for one second that this isn't anything more than the Kings system getting janked up lately and the Kings inability to adjust late in games. With the way things have gone I think the Kings could have totally fallen apart without Barnes' production had they left things as is. It was already starting to happen prior to the deadline anyway with Bogdan and Buddy starting to wear down.
Ya I'm absolutely shocked people arent satisfied with barnes. He got off to a rocky start but that's to be expected changing young teams at the deadline and completely changing his role.

I love barnes and was a big skeptic. He fits our team needs like a charm. For us to be great, fox/bagley are the catalysts. Buddy has to be the #2 scorer and do so efficiently and more consistently. Barnes plays his role to a T, great defender, can post up, can shoot 3s, switches well between the 3 and 4 spots. Love that addition, especially for the insanely low price.

I think the point made in previous posts was that the trades didn't get us into the playoffs. That immediately after the trades in February - we didn't play so well and that was that.

Having said that and as poorly as Barnes played in February, he is playing really well in March.

Also, I wouldn't call him inexpensive. And I would still argue that our number one priority is a big that can rebound and stretch the floor. Having said that - if he keeps playing like he has in March - then we get to do a happy dance.


The thing is I watched all those games. We had a brutal schedule. I don't think Shump changes very many of those games. Its not like were missing the playoffs by a game or 2, were missing by 6 games. We couldn't have predicted that the Clippers would go 16-4 from the deadline. OR that the Spurs would be one of the hottest teams in the NBA.

I said pre-deadline multiple times that Center was a bigger need than SF and that our defense was really hurting because we had no rim protection. It is what it is, I'm assuming Vlade didn't have a good cheap option available.

Also what i'm saying by inexpensive is we really gave nothing to get him. Jackson was nice, but he wasnt really a core piece. Barnes is a significant upgrade
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Re: Biggest positive takeaway/biggest disappointment 

Post#49 » by pillwenney » Thu Mar 28, 2019 11:03 pm

There's definitely a good chance we still miss the playoffs without the Shump trade, but I do think we would have generally been better off if we had kept him (and still made the Barnes trade--I don't get why people mistakenly link these together).

It hasn't happened much this year, but there were a couple of times during our losses where our spirits looked temporarily broken, or like our confidence was shaken a little. In a close game, a short stretch of that can make a big difference. Maybe having Shump around gets Buddy out of his slumps more recently, or keeps Willie feeling energized. Who knows, really. What I do know is Burks hasn't done **** for us, Shump helped us, and he's not starting in Houston anyway, which means the supposed reason for the trade was ill-founded and dumb.
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Re: Biggest positive takeaway/biggest disappointment 

Post#50 » by RipPizzaGuy » Thu Mar 28, 2019 11:10 pm

pillwenney wrote:There's definitely a good chance we still miss the playoffs without the Shump trade, but I do think we would have generally been better off if we had kept him (and still made the Barnes trade--I don't get why people mistakenly link these together).

It hasn't happened much this year, but there were a couple of times during our losses where our spirits looked temporarily broken, or like our confidence was shaken a little. In a close game, a short stretch of that can make a big difference. Maybe having Shump around gets Buddy out of his slumps more recently, or keeps Willie feeling energized. Who knows, really. What I do know is Burks hasn't done **** for us, Shump helped us, and he's not starting in Houston anyway, which means the supposed reason for the trade was ill-founded and dumb.


This is true. I've said before, we could have made the Barnes trade and kept Shump. Like you said we likely still miss the playoffs but it would have been good for morale.

What made the least sense to me is when we took Bjelica out of the rotation and had Barnes at the 4. That really highlighted how both of them could have played together and our defense would have improved even more.
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Re: Biggest positive takeaway/biggest disappointment 

Post#51 » by bleeds_purple » Thu Mar 28, 2019 11:16 pm

pillwenney wrote:There's definitely a good chance we still miss the playoffs without the Shump trade, but I do think we would have generally been better off if we had kept him (and still made the Barnes trade--I don't get why people mistakenly link these together).

It hasn't happened much this year, but there were a couple of times during our losses where our spirits looked temporarily broken, or like our confidence was shaken a little. In a close game, a short stretch of that can make a big difference. Maybe having Shump around gets Buddy out of his slumps more recently, or keeps Willie feeling energized. Who knows, really. What I do know is Burks hasn't done **** for us, Shump helped us, and he's not starting in Houston anyway, which means the supposed reason for the trade was ill-founded and dumb.


As much as I love the energy Shump brought let's not get carried away with his on court impact. He had a hot start and then quickly became almost unplayable. His shot selection was horrible. Take a look at his box-scores with Houston. Personally, I think Brewer is at worst a lateral replacement and arguably better than Shump. Again, I love the guy for what he brought to the team and I would honestly want to bring him back next year for chemistry reasons but he is a fringe rotation player at best.

Barnes has been amazing. I wouldn't even characterize him as starting poorly for us. Its pretty clear to me he came in with a "fit in" mentality and slowly became more aggressive and comfortable with his role. This just speaks to his professionalism if you ask me. He's exceeded my expectations. I never knew he was this good at defense.
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Re: Biggest positive takeaway/biggest disappointment 

Post#52 » by pillwenney » Thu Mar 28, 2019 11:29 pm

bleeds_purple wrote:
pillwenney wrote:There's definitely a good chance we still miss the playoffs without the Shump trade, but I do think we would have generally been better off if we had kept him (and still made the Barnes trade--I don't get why people mistakenly link these together).

It hasn't happened much this year, but there were a couple of times during our losses where our spirits looked temporarily broken, or like our confidence was shaken a little. In a close game, a short stretch of that can make a big difference. Maybe having Shump around gets Buddy out of his slumps more recently, or keeps Willie feeling energized. Who knows, really. What I do know is Burks hasn't done **** for us, Shump helped us, and he's not starting in Houston anyway, which means the supposed reason for the trade was ill-founded and dumb.


As much as I love the energy Shump brought let's not get carried away with his on court impact. He had a hot start and then quickly became almost unplayable. His shot selection was horrible. Take a look at his box-scores with Houston. Personally, I think Brewer is at worst a lateral replacement and arguably better than Shump. Again, I love the guy for what he brought to the team and I would honestly want to bring him back next year for chemistry reasons but he is a fringe rotation player at best.

Barnes has been amazing. I wouldn't even characterize him as starting poorly for us. Its pretty clear to me he came in with a "fit in" mentality and slowly became more aggressive and comfortable with his role. This just speaks to his professionalism if you ask me. He's exceeded my expectations. I never knew he was this good at defense.


I have no delusions about his on court impact, although I think he's a little better than Brewer over all. But I don't think his locker room impact can be overstated, and I think it hurt the team to lose him for that reason. Given what we got in return, I'd call it a pretty bad move.
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Re: Biggest positive takeaway/biggest disappointment 

Post#53 » by dckingsfan » Fri Mar 29, 2019 2:34 pm

bleeds_purple wrote:
pillwenney wrote:There's definitely a good chance we still miss the playoffs without the Shump trade, but I do think we would have generally been better off if we had kept him (and still made the Barnes trade--I don't get why people mistakenly link these together).

It hasn't happened much this year, but there were a couple of times during our losses where our spirits looked temporarily broken, or like our confidence was shaken a little. In a close game, a short stretch of that can make a big difference. Maybe having Shump around gets Buddy out of his slumps more recently, or keeps Willie feeling energized. Who knows, really. What I do know is Burks hasn't done **** for us, Shump helped us, and he's not starting in Houston anyway, which means the supposed reason for the trade was ill-founded and dumb.

As much as I love the energy Shump brought let's not get carried away with his on court impact. He had a hot start and then quickly became almost unplayable. His shot selection was horrible. Take a look at his box-scores with Houston. Personally, I think Brewer is at worst a lateral replacement and arguably better than Shump. Again, I love the guy for what he brought to the team and I would honestly want to bring him back next year for chemistry reasons but he is a fringe rotation player at best.

Barnes has been amazing. I wouldn't even characterize him as starting poorly for us. Its pretty clear to me he came in with a "fit in" mentality and slowly became more aggressive and comfortable with his role. This just speaks to his professionalism if you ask me. He's exceeded my expectations. I never knew he was this good at defense.

Agreed with all that - but no - Barnes did start poorly and it took time for the team to adjust. The question was - should we have stood pat at the trade deadline? Should we have just made the Barnes move? I think it is fine to question both moves for this season.
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Re: Biggest positive takeaway/biggest disappointment 

Post#54 » by SacKingZZZ » Fri Mar 29, 2019 8:58 pm

dckingsfan wrote:
bleeds_purple wrote:
pillwenney wrote:There's definitely a good chance we still miss the playoffs without the Shump trade, but I do think we would have generally been better off if we had kept him (and still made the Barnes trade--I don't get why people mistakenly link these together).

It hasn't happened much this year, but there were a couple of times during our losses where our spirits looked temporarily broken, or like our confidence was shaken a little. In a close game, a short stretch of that can make a big difference. Maybe having Shump around gets Buddy out of his slumps more recently, or keeps Willie feeling energized. Who knows, really. What I do know is Burks hasn't done **** for us, Shump helped us, and he's not starting in Houston anyway, which means the supposed reason for the trade was ill-founded and dumb.

As much as I love the energy Shump brought let's not get carried away with his on court impact. He had a hot start and then quickly became almost unplayable. His shot selection was horrible. Take a look at his box-scores with Houston. Personally, I think Brewer is at worst a lateral replacement and arguably better than Shump. Again, I love the guy for what he brought to the team and I would honestly want to bring him back next year for chemistry reasons but he is a fringe rotation player at best.

Barnes has been amazing. I wouldn't even characterize him as starting poorly for us. Its pretty clear to me he came in with a "fit in" mentality and slowly became more aggressive and comfortable with his role. This just speaks to his professionalism if you ask me. He's exceeded my expectations. I never knew he was this good at defense.

Agreed with all that - but no - Barnes did start poorly and it took time for the team to adjust. The question was - should we have stood pat at the trade deadline? Should we have just made the Barnes move? I think it is fine to question both moves for this season.



Should the Kings have finally made a deal that potentially answers the question at combo F that has seemingly loomed over this team for the last few years? Easy yes from me.

As for moving Shumpert. He did end up with the team that was rumored to want him and vice versa for a while now. I think that might have been a gift for Shump as much as anything. The way Joerger has used Burks I think it had to have been since he's never really gotten any sort of chance to do what he does.
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Re: Biggest positive takeaway/biggest disappointment 

Post#55 » by pillwenney » Fri Mar 29, 2019 9:08 pm

I just can't believe that, with his relationship with the team this year, that any part of Shump was like, "Hell yeah, please trade me. That would be a gift to me." Maybe Vlade thought he was doing something nice, or even necessary, but I don't think he was that right, and certainly not enough to justify hurting the current team.

And like, of course Burks didn't work out, and of course he hasn't been able to show what he can do. He's essentially a worse Bogie. what use did we have for that?
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Re: Biggest positive takeaway/biggest disappointment 

Post#56 » by simonbampfield » Fri Mar 29, 2019 10:02 pm

pillwenney wrote:I just can't believe that, with his relationship with the team this year, that any part of Shump was like, "Hell yeah, please trade me. That would be a gift to me." Maybe Vlade thought he was doing something nice, or even necessary, but I don't think he was that right, and certainly not enough to justify hurting the current team.

And like, of course Burks didn't work out, and of course he hasn't been able to show what he can do. He's essentially a worse Bogie. what use did we have for that?


Agree absolutely with this. With how tight Shump was with this playing group, the opportunities he had, not only this season, but to grow with this group was far bigger than anything else.

I'm of the opinion Burks should have been given an opportunity to succeed which he hasn't. At least this last run to the end of the season why not just shut down Bogie? Heck I would have been tempted to just shut down Fox/Bogie/Bagley and tell them to get some rest and come back better next year. They would absolutely hate that, but it would be best for the long term.
Hand the team over to Hield/Giles for 7 games and give Burks and Ferrell an opportunity to play a bigger role. If anything the guys that have contracts for next year it might raise an eyebrow or two of other teams and raise their value.
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Re: Biggest positive takeaway/biggest disappointment 

Post#57 » by SacKingZZZ » Fri Mar 29, 2019 11:58 pm

pillwenney wrote:I just can't believe that, with his relationship with the team this year, that any part of Shump was like, "Hell yeah, please trade me. That would be a gift to me." Maybe Vlade thought he was doing something nice, or even necessary, but I don't think he was that right, and certainly not enough to justify hurting the current team.

And like, of course Burks didn't work out, and of course he hasn't been able to show what he can do. He's essentially a worse Bogie. what use did we have for that?


That didn't need to be the case, but I'm sure that at some point during Shumps tenure his future was discussed along with possible landing spots. Shump is a free agent this summer and after making the Barnes trade he would obviously have been in a position where his minutes and role were going to drastically decrease since he got most of his minutes from the SF position. Houston was the rumored team for too long for there not to be some sort of plan and with that came a guaranteed playoff push for him.

And Burks was never used in a way to get anything out of him in the first place. He was put in that classic role of wow us without having anything called for you or else and even if you do you get one F up. If given a full shot he might not have worked but his game log since coming to Sacramento looks like swiss cheese. He's never taken more than 4 shots in a game since coming here.
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Re: Biggest positive takeaway/biggest disappointment 

Post#58 » by SacKingZZZ » Sat Mar 30, 2019 12:02 am

simonbampfield wrote:
pillwenney wrote:I just can't believe that, with his relationship with the team this year, that any part of Shump was like, "Hell yeah, please trade me. That would be a gift to me." Maybe Vlade thought he was doing something nice, or even necessary, but I don't think he was that right, and certainly not enough to justify hurting the current team.

And like, of course Burks didn't work out, and of course he hasn't been able to show what he can do. He's essentially a worse Bogie. what use did we have for that?


Agree absolutely with this. With how tight Shump was with this playing group, the opportunities he had, not only this season, but to grow with this group was far bigger than anything else.

I'm of the opinion Burks should have been given an opportunity to succeed which he hasn't. At least this last run to the end of the season why not just shut down Bogie? Heck I would have been tempted to just shut down Fox/Bogie/Bagley and tell them to get some rest and come back better next year. They would absolutely hate that, but it would be best for the long term.
Hand the team over to Hield/Giles for 7 games and give Burks and Ferrell an opportunity to play a bigger role. If anything the guys that have contracts for next year it might raise an eyebrow or two of other teams and raise their value.


Where does he play after the Barnes pick up? If Shump went to some lotto team in a pick deal I'd question it, but he went to the exact team you would expect.
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Re: Biggest positive takeaway/biggest disappointment 

Post#59 » by pillwenney » Sat Mar 30, 2019 12:15 am

SacKingZZZ wrote:
pillwenney wrote:I just can't believe that, with his relationship with the team this year, that any part of Shump was like, "Hell yeah, please trade me. That would be a gift to me." Maybe Vlade thought he was doing something nice, or even necessary, but I don't think he was that right, and certainly not enough to justify hurting the current team.

And like, of course Burks didn't work out, and of course he hasn't been able to show what he can do. He's essentially a worse Bogie. what use did we have for that?


That didn't need to be the case, but I'm sure that at some point during Shumps tenure his future was discussed along with possible landing spots. Shump is a free agent this summer and after making the Barnes trade he would obviously have been in a position where his minutes and role were going to drastically decrease since he got most of his minutes from the SF position. Houston was the rumored team for too long for there not to be some sort of plan and with that came a guaranteed playoff push for him.

And Burks was never used in a way to get anything out of him in the first place. He was put in that classic role of wow us without having anything called for you or else and even if you do you get one F up. If given a full shot he might not have worked but his game log since coming to Sacramento looks like swiss cheese. He's never taken more than 4 shots in a game since coming here.


Shump is getting 18.7mpg in Houston. He'd be getting at least that here. Joerger liked playing him. Yes, his role would have decreased, just as it HAS decreased in Houston. That's about what his role should be. He's not a starting caliber player.

Houston wasn't even that damn far up on his in the standings at the time of the trade. I'm not saying he's not happy he was traded there. But he for damn sure wasn't asking out, and therefore it's kind of a weak favor. It's not worth hurting the team unless it's a real demand, and I don't buy that it was.

I agree about Burks. My point is that we shouldn't have traded for him, because we didn't need him at all.
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Re: Biggest positive takeaway/biggest disappointment 

Post#60 » by SacKingZZZ » Sat Mar 30, 2019 1:05 am

pillwenney wrote:
SacKingZZZ wrote:
pillwenney wrote:I just can't believe that, with his relationship with the team this year, that any part of Shump was like, "Hell yeah, please trade me. That would be a gift to me." Maybe Vlade thought he was doing something nice, or even necessary, but I don't think he was that right, and certainly not enough to justify hurting the current team.

And like, of course Burks didn't work out, and of course he hasn't been able to show what he can do. He's essentially a worse Bogie. what use did we have for that?


That didn't need to be the case, but I'm sure that at some point during Shumps tenure his future was discussed along with possible landing spots. Shump is a free agent this summer and after making the Barnes trade he would obviously have been in a position where his minutes and role were going to drastically decrease since he got most of his minutes from the SF position. Houston was the rumored team for too long for there not to be some sort of plan and with that came a guaranteed playoff push for him.

And Burks was never used in a way to get anything out of him in the first place. He was put in that classic role of wow us without having anything called for you or else and even if you do you get one F up. If given a full shot he might not have worked but his game log since coming to Sacramento looks like swiss cheese. He's never taken more than 4 shots in a game since coming here.


Shump is getting 18.7mpg in Houston. He'd be getting at least that here. Joerger liked playing him. Yes, his role would have decreased, just as it HAS decreased in Houston. That's about what his role should be. He's not a starting caliber player.

Houston wasn't even that damn far up on his in the standings at the time of the trade. I'm not saying he's not happy he was traded there. But he for damn sure wasn't asking out, and therefore it's kind of a weak favor. It's not worth hurting the team unless it's a real demand, and I don't buy that it was.

I agree about Burks. My point is that we shouldn't have traded for him, because we didn't need him at all.



But Shump is on a bonafide contender that might be playing all the way to the end. They struggled earlier in the year but they were never out of it by a long shot and injuries played a part there as well. And I agree, I don't think he asked out, but I think Vlade knew what the score was when it came to moving him. He wasn't in the long term plans and now he's on a team that might have the intent on keeping him long term. For someone like Shump being on a team that wants to retain him means a lot because that means he might not have to fight though the MLE gauntlet or grasp at a teams remaining cap space.

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