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NBA Free Agency / Trade Thread

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Re: NBA Free Agency / Trade Thread 

Post#141 » by BoogieTime » Tue Jun 11, 2019 5:31 pm

Call Me Geoff wrote:
SmellingColors wrote:I don't buy that teams will shy away from giving KD the max because of his injury if for no reason than because the Warriors have struggled in the Finals without him. I can see no situation in which he legitimately considers Sacramento, but I would love to be wrong.


A) KD is not a FA and he probably won’t be until 2020.

B) I can assure you he will never play for Sac. As much as I’d love to see that happen it won’t. Between agents, shoe companies and corporate endorsements it’s best for the league for KD to be in SF,LA,NY, DC or Chicago. That’s just the way it works.


A) eh, I think, given the circumstances, he will look for the years this summer and opt out personally. He can be a FA, let’s put it like that. I’m thinking he will want the security now before it’s understood how his recovery goes, but it’s arguable.

B) It’s now argumentative whether any of the top FA destinations will offer him the max. If your LA/NY for example, do you take a chance on that gruesome injury or just move on to the Butler/Harris/Middleton’s

C) This was just a fun thing to think about, I’m not serious about Kings pursuing him. We will have enough salary going forward to take that risk. But I think a team without serious salary the next 4 years might take that leap
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Re: NBA Free Agency / Trade Thread 

Post#142 » by bleeds_purple » Tue Jun 11, 2019 6:05 pm

nolang1 wrote:
kalenclayton wrote:
madskillz8 wrote:Considering Looney, I'd rather have Kings rely on Giles as a starter at 5, and sign/draft a cheaper 5 who can body up stronger players like Embiid. There are very limited number of such players, so what about giving Tacko Fall a chance if he slips to 40?

I'm all in for betting on Dedmon for 3/30+ though.

I’m all for the Kings giving Dedmon $30/3. That’s a good deal. I don’t want to spend a penny more though. That’s my max.

I agree 100% with the Looney thing as well. I don’t think he’s a needle-mover and he’s certainly not worth taking minutes away from Giles. When it comes to the 40th pick, I’m not a fan of Tacko. I don’t think he is an NBA player.


I don't know how you could classify Dedmon as a needle-mover, and if the choice is between two players who don't move the needle (and the subtext of someone being 'not a needle-mover' at least means they don't make the team worse) I'd go with the one who's younger and cheaper. Let's be real, Joel Embiid dominates players like Dedmon just as easily and it's not like the Kings are going to be matching up with the Sixers in the finals anytime soon. Looney does the little things like rebound (and by this I mean boxing out and hepling the team rebound rather than just trying to snatch a bunch of uncontested boards), move the ball, set good screens, and play defense, and he's proven that he can hang out there in the playoffs. It's not like the Kings need a huge offensive presence out of him, and if you want more of Giles or Bagley at the 5 then you probably should want someone like Looney who's competent, cheap, will be fine without too many minutes/touches, and will leave you with more money to spend on wings.


Dedmon shoots threes and he can move to the bench if, and hopefully when, Giles proves worthy to start.

On the other hand, Looney is hardly an upgrade over Koufos.
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Re: NBA Free Agency / Trade Thread 

Post#143 » by kalenclayton » Tue Jun 11, 2019 6:29 pm

nolang1 wrote:
kalenclayton wrote:
madskillz8 wrote:Considering Looney, I'd rather have Kings rely on Giles as a starter at 5, and sign/draft a cheaper 5 who can body up stronger players like Embiid. There are very limited number of such players, so what about giving Tacko Fall a chance if he slips to 40?

I'm all in for betting on Dedmon for 3/30+ though.

I’m all for the Kings giving Dedmon $30/3. That’s a good deal. I don’t want to spend a penny more though. That’s my max.

I agree 100% with the Looney thing as well. I don’t think he’s a needle-mover and he’s certainly not worth taking minutes away from Giles. When it comes to the 40th pick, I’m not a fan of Tacko. I don’t think he is an NBA player.


I don't know how you could classify Dedmon as a needle-mover, and if the choice is between two players who don't move the needle (and the subtext of someone being 'not a needle-mover' at least means they don't make the team worse) I'd go with the one who's younger and cheaper. Let's be real, Joel Embiid dominates players like Dedmon just as easily and it's not like the Kings are going to be matching up with the Sixers in the finals anytime soon. Looney does the little things like rebound (and by this I mean boxing out and hepling the team rebound rather than just trying to snatch a bunch of uncontested boards), move the ball, set good screens, and play defense, and he's proven that he can hang out there in the playoffs. It's not like the Kings need a huge offensive presence out of him, and if you want more of Giles or Bagley at the 5 then you probably should want someone like Looney who's competent, cheap, will be fine without too many minutes/touches, and will leave you with more money to spend on wings.

I never said Dedmon was a needle-mover. I said Looney wasn’t one. The two players are significantly different and they both have strengths and weaknesses. I’m not arguing that Looney is a bad player. He just doesn’t move the needle for the Kings. He has a duplicate skill set that the Kings have. He will take minutes away from Giles when he needs it most.

You also mention “Looney who's competent, cheap”, but you mentioned giving Looney $32 million over 4 years. That is not “cheap”. That is prominent backup money and we cannot afford to give that type of money to a player who doesn’t offer a skill set different from what the team already has. When I talked about Dedmon, I said the max would be ok with would be $30 million over 3 years. I would like him more at $16million over 2 years, but I understand it will take more to get him out of ATL. He is a pretty good rebounder and a decent rim protector. What makes him valuable is that he can also stretch the floor, be a good roll man, and make good decisions. He could start for a year or two before moving to the bench.

I understand that you like Looney. He does some things well, but he is very limited. It just so happens that his surrounding cast minimizes his deficiencies and maximizes his strengths. He will not have the same impact anywhere else.
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Re: NBA Free Agency / Trade Thread 

Post#144 » by nolang1 » Tue Jun 11, 2019 6:37 pm

bleeds_purple wrote:
nolang1 wrote:
kalenclayton wrote:I’m all for the Kings giving Dedmon $30/3. That’s a good deal. I don’t want to spend a penny more though. That’s my max.

I agree 100% with the Looney thing as well. I don’t think he’s a needle-mover and he’s certainly not worth taking minutes away from Giles. When it comes to the 40th pick, I’m not a fan of Tacko. I don’t think he is an NBA player.


I don't know how you could classify Dedmon as a needle-mover, and if the choice is between two players who don't move the needle (and the subtext of someone being 'not a needle-mover' at least means they don't make the team worse) I'd go with the one who's younger and cheaper. Let's be real, Joel Embiid dominates players like Dedmon just as easily and it's not like the Kings are going to be matching up with the Sixers in the finals anytime soon. Looney does the little things like rebound (and by this I mean boxing out and hepling the team rebound rather than just trying to snatch a bunch of uncontested boards), move the ball, set good screens, and play defense, and he's proven that he can hang out there in the playoffs. It's not like the Kings need a huge offensive presence out of him, and if you want more of Giles or Bagley at the 5 then you probably should want someone like Looney who's competent, cheap, will be fine without too many minutes/touches, and will leave you with more money to spend on wings.


Dedmon shoots threes and he can move to the bench if, and hopefully when, Giles proves worthy to start.

On the other hand, Looney is hardly an upgrade over Koufos.


Looney finishes and defends much better than Koufos and is only 23. Obviously Looney could move to the bench as well - this isn't 2008 anymore where paying someone $5-8 million a year means they're one of the main players on the team and have to start all the time.
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Re: NBA Free Agency / Trade Thread 

Post#145 » by dckingsfan » Tue Jun 11, 2019 7:13 pm

Good conversations on Dedmon vs. Looney. I wonder what Vlade is going to look for now. Will it be young talent or a specific piece he wants.

He seems to be doing due diligence in using the three 2nd round picks. But there is never going to be any transparency on who he wants in FA. Going to be fascinating.
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Re: NBA Free Agency / Trade Thread 

Post#146 » by City of Trees » Tue Jun 11, 2019 7:49 pm

KD is a great player but he'll be 32 years old coming off of the worst injury in sports. I'd stop and think for a moment.
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Re: NBA Free Agency / Trade Thread 

Post#147 » by kalenclayton » Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:32 pm

City of Trees wrote:KD is a great player but he'll be 32 years old coming off of the worst injury in sports. I'd stop and think for a moment.

I think worst case scenario is you have Dirk on your hands. KD’s athleticism is going to drop no matter what. As long as KD rehabs well and accepts that his game needs to change, then he can go into a role where he can play like all-star Dirk level. That is worth a max.
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Re: NBA Free Agency / Trade Thread 

Post#148 » by City of Trees » Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:34 pm

kalenclayton wrote:
City of Trees wrote:KD is a great player but he'll be 32 years old coming off of the worst injury in sports. I'd stop and think for a moment.

I think worst case scenario is you have Dirk on your hands. KD’s athleticism is going to drop no matter what. As long as KD rehabs well and accepts that his game needs to change, then he can go into a role where he can play like all-star Dirk level. That is worth a max.
Remember there are different level of Max's here. KD is eligible for the super max.
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Re: NBA Free Agency / Trade Thread 

Post#149 » by kalenclayton » Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:55 pm

City of Trees wrote:
kalenclayton wrote:
City of Trees wrote:KD is a great player but he'll be 32 years old coming off of the worst injury in sports. I'd stop and think for a moment.

I think worst case scenario is you have Dirk on your hands. KD’s athleticism is going to drop no matter what. As long as KD rehabs well and accepts that his game needs to change, then he can go into a role where he can play like all-star Dirk level. That is worth a max.
Remember there are different level of Max's here. KD is eligible for the super max.

Absolutely. I factored that in. Sure it sucks to lose the extra 5% of cap to Durant in this gamble, but I think it’s worth it if the team truly believes that they are regular contenders without Durant. Adding Durant puts them over the top (as expected) and it further entrenches them in the history books. I know that it will be incredibly expensive to keep them around (I heard $1.6 billion over the next 5 years), but if the owners are ok with paying that, do it.
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Re: NBA Free Agency / Trade Thread 

Post#150 » by OGSactownballer » Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:17 am

City of Trees wrote:
kalenclayton wrote:
City of Trees wrote:KD is a great player but he'll be 32 years old coming off of the worst injury in sports. I'd stop and think for a moment.

I think worst case scenario is you have Dirk on your hands. KD’s athleticism is going to drop no matter what. As long as KD rehabs well and accepts that his game needs to change, then he can go into a role where he can play like all-star Dirk level. That is worth a max.
Remember there are different level of Max's here. KD is eligible for the super max.


No actually he is not.

Only OKC (the team that drafted him) could have payed him that if he stayed. This argument already took place on the GB.

And honestly ANYONE who signs KD to a max is basically signing their own walking papers in about 1 1/2 - 2 years as a GM.

Remember Chris Webber guys? You take the athleticism away from a guy like that and you have a SHELL of the player he was. And Achilles ALWAYS does that. Even to young guys.

And you have to figure his mentality. It’s just like Webber. In his mind he’s still the best in ball. And he is going to want ball share like that when he really will be AT BEST a complimentary star on the floor scorer for whatever is left. He will also start to have other ancillary injury issues that stem from the body adjustments he makes because of the lack of lift and lateral and posterior movement.
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Re: NBA Free Agency / Trade Thread 

Post#151 » by OGSactownballer » Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:20 am

nolang1 wrote:
kalenclayton wrote:
nolang1 wrote:I'd definitely be fine with offering Kevon Looney 4 years, $32 million or something like that. I don't know what the market is for him, but there's got to be some price at which Golden State doesn't want to pay that much in repeater tax and would rather replace him with some minsal guy.

I would be livid if we paid him that much. He’s a $3-5 million / year player. I’m cool with a small overpay like $18/3 with TO for the 3rd year, but no bigger.


He's 23 years old and #29 in the league in RPM. Literally nobody older than him is ranked higher.


Hmmmmm.

Tristan Thomas anyone?

You don’t pay role players from top teams big bucks unless you want to create crazy cap anchors for your team.
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Re: NBA Free Agency / Trade Thread 

Post#152 » by nolang1 » Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:22 am

OGSactownballer wrote:
nolang1 wrote:
kalenclayton wrote:I would be livid if we paid him that much. He’s a $3-5 million / year player. I’m cool with a small overpay like $18/3 with TO for the 3rd year, but no bigger.


He's 23 years old and #29 in the league in RPM. Literally nobody older than him is ranked higher.


Hmmmmm.

Tristan Thomas anyone?

You don’t pay role players from top teams big bucks unless you want to create crazy cap anchors for your team.


LOL since when was $5-8 million big bucks? You realize Thompson was making over twice as much, right?
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Re: NBA Free Agency / Trade Thread 

Post#153 » by RipPizzaGuy » Thu Jun 13, 2019 5:23 am

I don't think Looney is the worst option we could go for. Hes still young and hes a pretty physical player. Its always hard to judge guys that come out of the GSW system, players tend to look a little different when they aren't surrounded by 4 all stars. That said he may be worth the risk if its cheap. I do think hes back in GS for something like 8per year though.

One option I don't hear around here ever is Taj Gibson. Hes a bit on the older side, but I think hes got another decent 2 years in him. Hes tough as nails, would be a great mentor, and he can step out to the mid-range pretty well. If he comes cheap, I really wouldn't mind him. Perfect guy to have in the locker room and help the team get to the playoffs.
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Re: NBA Free Agency / Trade Thread 

Post#154 » by kalenclayton » Thu Jun 13, 2019 5:52 am

RipPizzaGuy wrote:I don't think Looney is the worst option we could go for. Hes still young and hes a pretty physical player. Its always hard to judge guys that come out of the GSW system, players tend to look a little different when they aren't surrounded by 4 all stars. That said he may be worth the risk if its cheap. I do think hes back in GS for something like 8per year though.

One option I don't hear around here ever is Taj Gibson. Hes a bit on the older side, but I think hes got another decent 2 years in him. Hes tough as nails, would be a great mentor, and he can step out to the mid-range pretty well. If he comes cheap, I really wouldn't mind him. Perfect guy to have in the locker room and help the team get to the playoffs.

I agree with you 100%. I argued against signing Looney at $8 million per year, but I don’t think that he would be a bad addition per se. If you can get him for $4 million or cheaper, then it’s good value. I still get worried that he takes developmental minutes away from Giles and doesn’t offer much differentiation in terms of skill set. That being said, he would offer some decent insurance just in case Giles flames out.

Gibson would be a great addition. I think he would be a fantastic role model for Bagley and, more importantly, Giles. Harry could potentially be a very similar player to Gibson in his career (w/ better vision). I love the addition. I believe Gibson could start with Bagley and be a great fit.
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Re: NBA Free Agency / Trade Thread 

Post#155 » by becorz » Thu Jun 13, 2019 6:04 am

kalenclayton wrote:
RipPizzaGuy wrote:I don't think Looney is the worst option we could go for. Hes still young and hes a pretty physical player. Its always hard to judge guys that come out of the GSW system, players tend to look a little different when they aren't surrounded by 4 all stars. That said he may be worth the risk if its cheap. I do think hes back in GS for something like 8per year though.

One option I don't hear around here ever is Taj Gibson. Hes a bit on the older side, but I think hes got another decent 2 years in him. Hes tough as nails, would be a great mentor, and he can step out to the mid-range pretty well. If he comes cheap, I really wouldn't mind him. Perfect guy to have in the locker room and help the team get to the playoffs.

I agree with you 100%. I argued against signing Looney at $8 million per year, but I don’t think that he would be a bad addition per se. If you can get him for $4 million or cheaper, then it’s good value. I still get worried that he takes developmental minutes away from Giles and doesn’t offer much differentiation in terms of skill set. That being said, he would offer some decent insurance just in case Giles flames out.

Gibson would be a great addition. I think he would be a fantastic role model for Bagley and, more importantly, Giles. Harry could potentially be a very similar player to Gibson in his career (w/ better vision). I love the addition. I believe Gibson could start with Bagley and be a great fit.

I view Looney kind of like I would view a prime Amir Johnson. I wouldn't be mad he is on the team and I think he is useful, but I am going to want to upgrade that spot if I can. If they Kings signed Looney to a like 3/$12m contract, fine, I am ok with that. The money is so light that it fine. Since he is going to be a RFA, the Kings will have to sign him to a three year deal. If we are talking 3/$24, I am way out.

Taj is another guy who I wouldn't mind on the team, but we would be looking for another upgrade next year. If we strike out on everyone and bring him in on a big one year deal, I am in. But I would rather go after other players first.

I know everyone is focusing on centers, but I truly believe we are set at Center if we sign a third string center that can maybe play minutes if Bagley needs to play PF. I really do think this ends up with WCS on a one year deal. If we could sign WCS but also sign a small forward to play big minutes (with Barnes/Bagley), I would be thrilled. I just think Giles and Bagley are ultimately playing center most of the time, spending some time together on the court, similar to the way Sabonis/Turner have their minutes staggered in Indy.
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Re: NBA Free Agency / Trade Thread 

Post#156 » by Roddy B for 3 » Thu Jun 13, 2019 10:29 am

Would the Kings trade picks #40 + #47 + take on John Leur (expiering contract of 7.2million) in exchange for pick #17?

Its part of a three team deal I'm working on for anyone who I curious.
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Re: NBA Free Agency / Trade Thread 

Post#157 » by kalenclayton » Thu Jun 13, 2019 2:30 pm

Roddy B for 3 wrote:Would the Kings trade picks #40 + #47 + take on John Leur (expiering contract of 7.2million) in exchange for pick #17?

Its part of a three team deal I'm working on for anyone who I curious.

Yes that works. This is an easy way to jump in the 1st round and it’s good value.
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Re: NBA Free Agency / Trade Thread 

Post#158 » by Silver Man » Thu Jun 13, 2019 3:57 pm

Roddy B for 3 wrote:Would the Kings trade picks #40 + #47 + take on John Leur (expiering contract of 7.2million) in exchange for pick #17?

Its part of a three team deal I'm working on for anyone who I curious.


Absolutely.

This seems like the best way to jump into the first round without having to give up too much. Adding an expiring is never a bad thing for a team like us either.
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Re: NBA Free Agency / Trade Thread 

Post#159 » by SacKingZZZ » Thu Jun 13, 2019 6:52 pm

I don't think the Kings would do that to be honest. I think they are looking at using that space to go after a big name in free agency. Taking on a deal like that would push them out of the running financially.
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Re: NBA Free Agency / Trade Thread 

Post#160 » by BoogieTime » Thu Jun 13, 2019 7:14 pm

SacKingZZZ wrote:I don't think the Kings would do that to be honest. I think they are looking at using that space to go after a big name in free agency. Taking on a deal like that would push them out of the running financially.


I agree they wouldn’t

It also may be the fan of me to see a couple of diamonds potentially at 40/47, as opposed to just one selection at a non prime pick 17.

They are planning to hit FA hard by all indications

Actually I’d rather throw 7 mil at a young player who has already shown NBA flashes if they miss out on the big fish

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