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Re: Harrison Barnes declines $25.1m player option. [Update: Kings plan to offer extension in 4/90 range. Pg. 4]

Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 1:48 am
by gundysmullet
benchmobbin02 wrote:
gundysmullet wrote:
OGSactownballer wrote:
A lot of the problem with the advanced stats is they do not account for misuse of the player.

Remember and say this to yourself a few times. Barnes was the starter for a championship and a 73-win team. The only reason he was displaced was because the team had the opportunity to sign Durant - the second best player in the world - who plays the same position.

Then he signed with Dallas who immediately tried to make him the number one option.

He’s not. That’s not his strength. And the advanced stats show it.

Then Joeger used him a LOT at the 4. Now I like him SITUATIONALLY at the 4 or 2 for small stretches with a specific matchup need. But ultimately he is NOT a 4 and again, the advanced stats tell the tale.

Let’s see what happens when he gets to play his natural position as the fourth or fifth offensive option the way he should be.

Yes, yes, yes. Harrison Barnes on a good team is fourth or fifth option. Fourth or fifth options are decent tile players they do not make $20 million a year. That is simply my point.


No, your point is YOU wouldn't pay a fourth option $20 mil a year. We get it.

Well yeah, I thought that was kind of self-explanatory from my original post.

Re: Harrison Barnes declines $25.1m player option. [Update: Kings plan to offer extension in 4/90 range. Pg. 4]

Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 2:03 am
by benchmobbin02
gundysmullet wrote:
benchmobbin02 wrote:
gundysmullet wrote:Yes, yes, yes. Harrison Barnes on a good team is fourth or fifth option. Fourth or fifth options are decent tile players they do not make $20 million a year. That is simply my point.


No, your point is YOU wouldn't pay a fourth option $20 mil a year. We get it.

Well yeah, I thought that was kind of self-explanatory from my original post.


I just didn't want you to be misunderstood. Because 4th or 5ht options do make 20mil a year. Just correcting you.

Re: Harrison Barnes declines $25.1m player option. [Update: Kings plan to offer extension in 4/90 range. Pg. 4]

Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 2:15 am
by simonbampfield
gundysmullet wrote:
OGSactownballer wrote:
City of Trees wrote:Kings starting Small Forwards over the years

2007: Ron Artest
2008: John Salmons/Francisco Garcia
2009: Donte Green/Omri Casspi
2010: Francisco Garcia/Omri Casspi
2011: John Salmons/Donte Green
2012: John Salmons/Travis Outlaw
2013: Rudy Gay
2014: Rudy Gay
2015: Rudy Gay
2016: Rudy Gay
2017: Garret Temple/Justin Jackson
2018: Shumpert/Barnes


Since 2008, outside of Rudy Gay the Kings have seen a lot of below average play from the SF position.

I can't speak for jeffjtk but what I think he meant by "legit" is unlike years past the Kings have a penciled in starter in Harrison Barnes.

28 games is a small sample size but the Kings saw enough where they feel confident moving forward. 3 point shooting, rebounding, ability to switch on defense, acceptance of a smaller role, and his professionalism are attractive to the Kings.

One of Vlade's close friends Doug Christie is always hanging around the team. He's shared stories on Barnes being a positive influence on the young players. Cited how Barnes does everything right in his preparation and treatment, ect. Some of the money factors in as the vet role not just on court production.

I'll agree with you his advanced stats are bad which is weird. The eye test says he makes an impact on both sides of the floor. I have no answer its really weird.


A lot of the problem with the advanced stats is they do not account for misuse of the player.

Remember and say this to yourself a few times. Barnes was the starter for a championship and a 73-win team. The only reason he was displaced was because the team had the opportunity to sign Durant - the second best player in the world - who plays the same position.

Then he signed with Dallas who immediately tried to make him the number one option.

He’s not. That’s not his strength. And the advanced stats show it.

Then Joeger used him a LOT at the 4. Now I like him SITUATIONALLY at the 4 or 2 for small stretches with a specific matchup need. But ultimately he is NOT a 4 and again, the advanced stats tell the tale.

Let’s see what happens when he gets to play his natural position as the fourth or fifth offensive option the way he should be.

Yes, yes, yes. Harrison Barnes on a good team is fourth or fifth option. Fourth or fifth options are decent tile players they do not make $20 million a year. That is simply my point.

I think with all things being equal you are correct. When you lay it out with advanced stats and go the Kings are signing him to 4/90!
However when you add everything up the Kings felt they could afford to overpay for the right fit.
Now if Luke comes out and we see Barnes playing the 4 a little too much then you are bang on, he simply isn’t worth it at all.
Right at this time I have to believe Walton will play him similar to how he was used at GS, except now he is a vet with a lot more experience. Granted we don’t have guys such as Steph, Klay etc, far from it, but he is going to be a great guy to have to teach Fox, Bagley, Buddy to become the leaders of the franchise with the aim to be a great team like the Warriors. These guys would do it and get there with or without HB that is true, but his championship experience with the Warriors will come in handy and while I don’t ever envisage HB being this star game changer, he just needs to be a + player. Until then people are going to be sceptical.
Nothing against Dallas but he simply didn’t have the roster around him like he does here. Let’s see if two things happen - 1) HB plays majority at the 3 with occasional small ball 4 and 2) his role is that of the #4 or #5 option.




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Re: Harrison Barnes declines $25.1m player option. [Update: Kings plan to offer extension in 4/90 range. Pg. 4]

Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 3:00 am
by gundysmullet
benchmobbin02 wrote:
gundysmullet wrote:
benchmobbin02 wrote:
No, your point is YOU wouldn't pay a fourth option $20 mil a year. We get it.

Well yeah, I thought that was kind of self-explanatory from my original post.


I just didn't want you to be misunderstood. Because 4th or 5ht options do make 20mil a year. Just correcting you.

Examples please?

Re: Harrison Barnes declines $25.1m player option. [Update: Kings plan to offer extension in 4/90 range. Pg. 4]

Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 3:01 am
by benchmobbin02
gundysmullet wrote:
benchmobbin02 wrote:
gundysmullet wrote:Well yeah, I thought that was kind of self-explanatory from my original post.


I just didn't want you to be misunderstood. Because 4th or 5ht options do make 20mil a year. Just correcting you.

Examples please?


Serge Ibaka

Re: Harrison Barnes declines $25.1m player option. [Update: Kings plan to offer extension in 4/90 range. Pg. 4]

Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 3:01 am
by benchmobbin02
gundysmullet wrote:
benchmobbin02 wrote:
gundysmullet wrote:Well yeah, I thought that was kind of self-explanatory from my original post.


I just didn't want you to be misunderstood. Because 4th or 5ht options do make 20mil a year. Just correcting you.

Examples please?


George Hill

Re: Harrison Barnes declines $25.1m player option. [Update: Kings plan to offer extension in 4/90 range. Pg. 4]

Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 3:02 am
by benchmobbin02
gundysmullet wrote:
benchmobbin02 wrote:
gundysmullet wrote:Well yeah, I thought that was kind of self-explanatory from my original post.


I just didn't want you to be misunderstood. Because 4th or 5ht options do make 20mil a year. Just correcting you.

Examples please?


DeAndre Jordan

Re: Harrison Barnes declines $25.1m player option. [Update: Kings plan to offer extension in 4/90 range. Pg. 4]

Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 3:04 am
by benchmobbin02
gundysmullet wrote:
benchmobbin02 wrote:
gundysmullet wrote:Well yeah, I thought that was kind of self-explanatory from my original post.


I just didn't want you to be misunderstood. Because 4th or 5ht options do make 20mil a year. Just correcting you.

Examples please?


Jabari Parker

Re: Harrison Barnes declines $25.1m player option. [Update: Kings plan to offer extension in 4/90 range. Pg. 4]

Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 3:07 am
by benchmobbin02
gundysmullet wrote:
benchmobbin02 wrote:
gundysmullet wrote:Well yeah, I thought that was kind of self-explanatory from my original post.


I just didn't want you to be misunderstood. Because 4th or 5ht options do make 20mil a year. Just correcting you.

Examples please?


Gary Harris is borderline as he, Millsap and Barton are all interchangeable as the 3-4-5 options

Re: Harrison Barnes declines $25.1m player option. [Update: Kings plan to offer extension in 4/90 range. Pg. 4]

Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 3:47 am
by gundysmullet
benchmobbin02 wrote:
gundysmullet wrote:
benchmobbin02 wrote:
I just didn't want you to be misunderstood. Because 4th or 5ht options do make 20mil a year. Just correcting you.

Examples please?


Gary Harris is borderline as he, Millsap and Barton are all interchangeable as the 3-4-5 options


Gary Harris isn't the 4th option on any team. And you gave me one example outta 32 teams.

Re: Harrison Barnes declines $25.1m player option. [Update: Kings plan to offer extension in 4/90 range. Pg. 4]

Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 4:59 am
by benchmobbin02
gundysmullet wrote:
benchmobbin02 wrote:
gundysmullet wrote:Examples please?


Gary Harris is borderline as he, Millsap and Barton are all interchangeable as the 3-4-5 options


Gary Harris isn't the 4th option on any team. And you gave me one example outta 32 teams.


Gary Harris is on one team, the Nuggets.

On the Nuggets, him and Millsap are neck and neck as to who the 3rd option is, with Barton close behind them. So if Millsap edges him out, that would make him the 4th option. It's not rocket science.

And I gave you 5 examples.

Re: Harrison Barnes declines $25.1m player option. [Update: Kings plan to offer extension in 4/90 range. Pg. 4]

Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 5:16 am
by gundysmullet
benchmobbin02 wrote:
gundysmullet wrote:
benchmobbin02 wrote:
Gary Harris is borderline as he, Millsap and Barton are all interchangeable as the 3-4-5 options


Gary Harris isn't the 4th option on any team. And you gave me one example outta 32 teams.


Gary Harris is on one team, the Nuggets.

On the Nuggets, him and Millsap are neck and neck as to who the 3rd option is, with Barton close behind them. So if Millsap edges him out, that would make him the 4th option. It's not rocket science.

And I gave you 5 examples.


My apologies, I didn't realize that you posted 5 separate examples and not in just 1 post.

Re: Harrison Barnes declines $25.1m player option. [Update: Kings plan to offer extension in 4/90 range. Pg. 4]

Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 5:48 pm
by bleeds_purple
There you go... Dwight Powell is getting 3/33. I hope once you guys start seeing the numbers this off-season you realize Barnes at 4/88 is not even really an overpay.

The cap has doubled in the last 5 years. Would people be complaining about 4/44 in 2015? I doubt it.

Re: Harrison Barnes declines $25.1m player option. [Update: Kings plan to offer extension in 4/90 range. Pg. 4]

Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 9:09 pm
by bibby1023
Read on Twitter


Looks like it was less money overall and it continuously declines. Great news

Re: Update: Harrison Barnes signs 4 yr $85M deal [Amick] (update #134)

Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 9:36 pm
by blind prophet
Rudy just got 2/32....

Makes Barnes contract seem less imposing.

Re: Update: Harrison Barnes signs 4 yr $85M deal [Amick] (update #134)

Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 9:37 pm
by codydaze
Salary will decline from 23.5 to 22-20.5-19. Taking up 14% of the cap in the fourth year not counting any major increase, very solid deal in my opinion. Compare that to Rozier's 3/58 and it looks preetty good.

Re: Update: Harrison Barnes signs 4 yr $85M deal [Amick] (update #134)

Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 10:15 pm
by simonbampfield
codydaze wrote:Salary will decline from 23.5 to 22-20.5-19. Taking up 14% of the cap in the fourth year not counting any major increase, very solid deal in my opinion. Compare that to Rozier's 3/58 and it looks preetty good.

This is really good news. Goes from an overpay to a solid deal.