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Re: Harrison Barnes declines $25.1m player option.

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:48 pm
by KF10
SacKingZZZ wrote:Those are more like 2/3's at best. Barnes is a legit 3/4. There were some potential options the draft but Vlade opted not to go that direction.


The thing about Barnes is that despite him shooting ~41% from distance and scoring at a ~58% TS, he is a net-zero to slight positive player at best from all the data I've seen. To me, if you are going to reward a player a huge contract, said player should be solidly a positive player within their position. I would rather use the money elsewhere if I was Vlade, imo. If we re-sign Barnes @ $20m-$22m, you gotta start him and I don't think he moves the needle enough to elevate the team no matter how much he "fits" with Fox and friends.

That being said, re-signing Barnes won't be the end of the world. I admit that it's going to be slim pickings for a 3/4 or 2/3 if the Kings let Barnes go and expect to appropriately replace him, imo. But I did a bit of research and these are (realistic) players that can be had at a cheaper price and can either fully replace Barnes production or close to it:

Marcus Morris
Al-Farouq Aminu
Kelly Oubre Jr.
Danny Green

I would target those players first before handing out Barnes his huge contract, imo.

Re: Harrison Barnes declines $25.1m player option.

Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:00 am
by simonbampfield
KF10 wrote:
SacKingZZZ wrote:Those are more like 2/3's at best. Barnes is a legit 3/4. There were some potential options the draft but Vlade opted not to go that direction.


The thing about Barnes is that despite him shooting ~41% from distance and scoring at a ~58% TS, he is a net-zero to slight positive player at best from all the data I've seen. To me, if you are going to reward a player a huge contract, said player should be solidly a positive player within their position. I would rather use the money elsewhere if I was Vlade, imo. If we re-sign Barnes @ $20m-$22m, you gotta start him and I don't think he moves the needle enough to elevate the team no matter how much he "fits" with Fox and friends.

That being said, re-signing Barnes won't be the end of the world. I admit that it's going to be slim pickings for a 3/4 or 2/3 if the Kings let Barnes go and expect to appropriately replace him, imo. But I did a bit of research and these are (realistic) players that can be had at a cheaper price and can either fully replace Barnes production or close to it:

Marcus Morris
Al-Farouq Aminu
Kelly Oubre Jr.
Danny Green

I would target those players first before handing out Barnes his huge contract, imo.

I think that is completely reasonable too.
Oubre is one that has always intrigued me. Can he lower his usage and be an efficient contributor while making a difference on D? I don't know about that, but if you give him a big contract and hand him the starting SF position I don't think it's going to be a big mistake in that his value will always be there as a scoring wing (his negatives seem to be wanting more shots). Whether he fits in with Marvin, Fox, Buddy I'm not sure. He is the type of player I would love to see here and be really committed to making a difference on the defensive end first and getting a lot of his buckets in transition and spot up 3s which he still needs to improve on.

Re: Harrison Barnes declines $25.1m player option.

Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 6:43 am
by bleeds_purple
KF10 wrote:
SacKingZZZ wrote:Those are more like 2/3's at best. Barnes is a legit 3/4. There were some potential options the draft but Vlade opted not to go that direction.


The thing about Barnes is that despite him shooting ~41% from distance and scoring at a ~58% TS, he is a net-zero to slight positive player at best from all the data I've seen. To me, if you are going to reward a player a huge contract, said player should be solidly a positive player within their position. I would rather use the money elsewhere if I was Vlade, imo. If we re-sign Barnes @ $20m-$22m, you gotta start him and I don't think he moves the needle enough to elevate the team no matter how much he "fits" with Fox and friends.

That being said, re-signing Barnes won't be the end of the world. I admit that it's going to be slim pickings for a 3/4 or 2/3 if the Kings let Barnes go and expect to appropriately replace him, imo. But I did a bit of research and these are (realistic) players that can be had at a cheaper price and can either fully replace Barnes production or close to it:

Marcus Morris
Al-Farouq Aminu
Kelly Oubre Jr.
Danny Green

I would target those players first before handing out Barnes his huge contract, imo.


Morris is a 4; Green is a 2; Aminu barely gives you half the production of Barnes, is a below-average shooter, is a bench-quality player, and is honestly more of a 4; Oubre is a RFA who is gonna end up making close to what Barnes makes if not the same and is not as good as him nor as high character.

All that being said, why wouldn't we resign Barnes and go after these guys? Why is it either/or? You got $62M. ~20 to Barnes; ~20 to Oubrey/Morris; ~15 on a C; ~7 on a backup PG.

Re: Harrison Barnes declines $25.1m player option.

Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 11:14 pm
by dckingsfan
No to Oubre - pleeeeease

Re: Harrison Barnes declines $25.1m player option.

Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 1:24 am
by BoogieTime
dckingsfan wrote:No to Oubre - pleeeeease

I agree.

Re: Harrison Barnes declines $25.1m player option.

Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 3:59 pm
by Kings2016
https://www.sacbee.com/sports/nba/sacramento-kings/article231952173.html
Good Article on the Kings -Cauley Stein situation.

Re: Harrison Barnes declines $25.1m player option.

Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 4:25 pm
by codydaze
BoogieTime wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:No to Oubre - pleeeeease

I agree.


I third this. I'm not sure how you can be against giving Barnes 20 million but then turn around and give Oubre 20 million. Neither of them are that caliber of player, I want to stay away from Oubre completely.

Re: Harrison Barnes declines $25.1m player option.

Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 4:48 pm
by kalenclayton
Kings2016 wrote:https://www.sacbee.com/sports/nba/sacramento-kings/article231952173.html
Good Article on the Kings -Cauley Stein situation.

I like the number that Anderson said the Kings want Willie at. <$10 million is fine for me, especially in a bench role.

Re: Harrison Barnes declines $25.1m player option.

Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 8:05 pm
by bleeds_purple
codydaze wrote:
BoogieTime wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:No to Oubre - pleeeeease

I agree.


I third this. I'm not sure how you can be against giving Barnes 20 million but then turn around and give Oubre 20 million. Neither of them are that caliber of player, I want to stay away from Oubre completely.


4th :lol: something about him I don't trust.

Re: Harrison Barnes declines $25.1m player option.

Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 10:05 pm
by KF10
bleeds_purple wrote:
Morris is a 4; Green is a 2; Aminu barely gives you half the production of Barnes, is a below-average shooter, is a bench-quality player, and is honestly more of a 4; Oubre is a RFA who is gonna end up making close to what Barnes makes if not the same and is not as good as him nor as high character.

All that being said, why wouldn't we resign Barnes and go after these guys? Why is it either/or? You got $62M. ~20 to Barnes; ~20 to Oubrey/Morris; ~15 on a C; ~7 on a backup PG.


Morris is a 3/4 hybrid -- which I admit, he's more of a 4. Green is a 2/3 hybrid -- which I admit again, he's more of a 2. Aminu is a real solid glue guy. He may not be better than Barnes but he will cost vastly less than him. Aminu is a cheap option. I was simply throwing out (realistic) options nothing concrete. Out of the list, I like Oubre probably the most.

I looked at Oubre's numbers and other than shooting from distance, Barnes' and Oubre's stats (especially the advanced stats) are very, very similar. Oubre made a big step in his development and looked like a real player to keep an eye on. Fits with the timeline. I wouldn't mind bidding on him.

Re-signing Barnes @ ~$20m will leave the Kings ~$40m of space left (assuming the Kings renounce/waive the appropriate players i.e. Willie, Yogi, Mason, etc). Your scenario works. I would actually prefer that myself unless a guy like Horford becomes a real possibility for the Kings.

Re: Harrison Barnes declines $25.1m player option.

Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 10:08 pm
by KF10
simonbampfield wrote:I think that is completely reasonable too.
Oubre is one that has always intrigued me. Can he lower his usage and be an efficient contributor while making a difference on D? I don't know about that, but if you give him a big contract and hand him the starting SF position I don't think it's going to be a big mistake in that his value will always be there as a scoring wing (his negatives seem to be wanting more shots). Whether he fits in with Marvin, Fox, Buddy I'm not sure. He is the type of player I would love to see here and be really committed to making a difference on the defensive end first and getting a lot of his buckets in transition and spot up 3s which he still needs to improve on.


Time and time again, over the past last season, I was pulling my hair constantly when all of Fox, Buddy, Bogs were shooting duds and we had to scrape and grind with the inefficient offense. The lulls of the lack of scoring really killed the game for the Kings multiple of times. Adding an additional scorer like Oubre would be something I would consider. He fits with the Kings' timeline and showed good promise last season.

Re: Harrison Barnes declines $25.1m player option.

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 3:22 pm
by OhioKingsFan
If the Kings were to have up to another $20M to spend on a wing (after retaining Barnes, if I understand this thread correctly), I'd explore a lot of other options before committing to Oubre at that price.

Re: Harrison Barnes declines $25.1m player option.

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 4:47 pm
by OGSactownballer
KF10 wrote:
bleeds_purple wrote:
Morris is a 4; Green is a 2; Aminu barely gives you half the production of Barnes, is a below-average shooter, is a bench-quality player, and is honestly more of a 4; Oubre is a RFA who is gonna end up making close to what Barnes makes if not the same and is not as good as him nor as high character.

All that being said, why wouldn't we resign Barnes and go after these guys? Why is it either/or? You got $62M. ~20 to Barnes; ~20 to Oubrey/Morris; ~15 on a C; ~7 on a backup PG.


Morris is a 3/4 hybrid -- which I admit, he's more of a 4. Green is a 2/3 hybrid -- which I admit again, he's more of a 2. Aminu is a real solid glue guy. He may not be better than Barnes but he will cost vastly less than him. Aminu is a cheap option. I was simply throwing out (realistic) options nothing concrete. Out of the list, I like Oubre probably the most.

I looked at Oubre's numbers and other than shooting from distance, Barnes' and Oubre's stats (especially the advanced stats) are very, very similar. Oubre made a big step in his development and looked like a real player to keep an eye on. Fits with the timeline. I wouldn't mind bidding on him.

Re-signing Barnes @ ~$20m will leave the Kings ~$40m of space left (assuming the Kings renounce/waive the appropriate players i.e. Willie, Yogi, Mason, etc). Your scenario works. I would actually prefer that myself unless a guy like Horford becomes a real possibility for the Kings.


Funny thing I made this point on the main boards about Oubre being a better investment at the same price as Barnes because he is four years younger and has virtually the same numbers. I was slammed and they claim that’s not true.

But the actual numbers look like that.

Re: Harrison Barnes declines $25.1m player option.

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 5:23 pm
by codydaze
Don’t love the price. I just hope Horford comes as well.

Read on Twitter

Re: Harrison Barnes declines $25.1m player option. [Update: Kings plan to offer extension in 4/90 range. Pg. 5]

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 5:30 pm
by BoogieTime
Of course not an acceptable amount whatsoever... I continue not to support the FO. Is there anyone remotely challenging us on those terms?

Though Barnes is a solid player and there weren’t going to be better wing options soon most likely

Re: Harrison Barnes declines $25.1m player option.

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 5:42 pm
by Silver Man
codydaze wrote:Don’t love the price. I just hope Horford comes as well.

Read on Twitter


This is awful...even for Vlade.

Re: Harrison Barnes declines $25.1m player option. [Update: Kings plan to offer extension in 4/90 range. Pg. 4]

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 5:42 pm
by KF10
So that’s roughly $22m/yr. I kind of figured the Kings going to offer him anywhere from $20m-$22m per year on a 3 or 4 year deal. It’s something I didn’t want to see tho. It sounds like we are bidding against ourselves. Hmm. Which other team would offer Barnes the same amount of money and length like the Kings really?

So, that’s going to cut into the cap space down to ~$40m (assuming they renounce guys like Willie and waive guys like Yogi and Mason).

I actually can live with Barnes making that as long as we don’t do something more stupid that decreases our cap space any further like retaining Willie at any price. I don’t care what some would say, I want Willie and his low motor away from this team. I won’t take Willie if he was free.

Re: Harrison Barnes declines $25.1m player option. [Update: Kings plan to offer extension in 4/90 range. Pg. 4]

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 6:05 pm
by OGSactownballer
I don’t like that at all.

If it was a three year deal maybe. But that’s more than Barnes is worth.

If we are getting into that price range there are other far better options out there to bid on.

And I agree that we are bidding against ourselves with a “here here we’ll give you whatever you want please just stay” offer that he's it getting anywhere else.

We are acting like the desperate guy who is trying to get the girl to stay even though she’s really nothing special. It’s not a good look.

Re: Harrison Barnes declines $25.1m player option. [Update: Kings plan to offer extension in 4/90 range. Pg. 4]

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 6:05 pm
by codydaze
Did anyone truly believe we could have re-signed Barnes for a deal in the 4/60 range? I assumed the deal was going to be 4/80, 4/88 isn't the worst thing that could happen, at least it's not 4/100. I would put money on Barnes getting a 4/100 offer from someone if he had tested the market.

It also leaves us with about 35-40 million in cap space to chase a guy like Horford as well as Beverly. I get it's easy and in vogue to trash Vlade but I honestly don't believe this is a terrible move even though I'm not thrilled with the price tag.

Re: Harrison Barnes declines $25.1m player option. [Update: Kings plan to offer extension in 4/90 range. Pg. 4]

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 6:09 pm
by City of Trees
I was hoping it would be 3yrs/$54M which was $18M per year. $22M is a reasonable Kings tax I suppose.

Hey you never know, maybe the 4th year will be a partial guarantee? Seems like our FO does that in most contracts.