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Starting this thread with the disclaimer that this is NOT a thread to bash Bagley and let's also keep Luka out of it.

What I would like to see is some discussion on his game and how you feel about him moving forward.

In a very small sample size of 5 games, Bagley is averaging 13.2 pts and 7.2 rebounds on .446/.333/.667 splits.

What I have seen from him in the time since he has been back is that he needs a lot of work on the defensive side of the ball. Our team defense was really good while he was out and was a big reason we were able to remain competitive but so far he has looked completely lost. He's disrupted our rotations and lost his man far too often. I'll give the offense some time so he can get reps and develop some more chemistry with the guys but defense is a different story and I think his biggest problem right now.

He needs to slow down on offense and pay more attention on defense. We are noticeably worse defensively when he's in for Holmes. When Holmes is in and we get beat on the perimeter, he's right there to clog the paint. When Bagley is in, those become uncontested layups.

I really think we need to try some lineups with Holmes/Bagley or Giles/Bagley. I was also encouraged to see him and Fox working a two-man game against Charlotte and hope to see more of that as we move forward.

This is going to take time and we need to have patience. He's young and getting integrated back from injury makes it even more difficult.

His current inability to play non-detrimental bench minutes is both disheartening and threatening to our playoff birth, currently. Its throwing the age old developing vrs winning argument to the forefront.

I think we all welcomed Bagley back as a player that would assume Deadman and Giles minutes, and be better than them. The issue is that he may be affecting the team worse than them because the team is allotting him double their minutes. Im whole heartedly on the side of that he should be earning his minutes. He should play back up big minutes, that would extend if he was holding his own. He can develop that way too, with all the off court tutelage etc. But most of all, we have Buddy/Bogi/Barnes/Cojo/Holmes etc in their primes, busting tail to get this last playoff seed. It cant be fair to them, or IMO the majority of fans to not watch optimal rotations for a borderline playoff team that could hinge on winning/losing. But it doesnt look like that argument is going to win with the FO, who partially fired Joerger over this, and Luke who still has a lengthy contract and/or is pressured by said FO. I guess having a Wiseman ticket come the offseason isnt so bad, but its just annoying for me to see this as someone who wants to win.

BoogieTime wrote:His current inability to play non-detrimental bench minutes is both disheartening and threatening to our playoff birth, currently. Its throwing the age old developing vrs winning argument to the forefront.

I think we all welcomed Bagley back as a player that would assume Deadman and Giles minutes, and be better than them. The issue is that he may be affecting the team worse than them because the team is allotting him double their minutes. Im whole heartedly on the side of that he should be earning his minutes. He should play back up big minutes, that would extend if he was holding his own. He can develop that way too, with all the off court tutelage etc. But most of all, we have Buddy/Bogi/Barnes/Cojo/Holmes etc in their primes, busting tail to get this last playoff seed. It cant be fair to them, or IMO the majority of fans to not watch optimal rotations for a borderline playoff team that could hinge on winning/losing. But it doesnt look like that argument is going to win with the FO, who partially fired Joerger over this, and Luke who still has a lengthy contract and/or is pressured by said FO. I guess having a Wiseman ticket come the offseason isnt so bad, but its just annoying for me to see this as someone who wants to win.

Not so sure this is the issue, he hasn't even played 25 minutes in a game since he's been back. Fox played 29 minutes in his first game back from a worse injury where he was expected to be out 2-3 weeks longer than he ended up being.

What I would like to see him earn, however, is his place in the offense. When he gets the ball, he rarely passes out somewhere and will force up a shot. He needs to let the offense come to him and keep the flow of the offense moving.

codydaze wrote:

BoogieTime wrote:His current inability to play non-detrimental bench minutes is both disheartening and threatening to our playoff birth, currently. Its throwing the age old developing vrs winning argument to the forefront.

I think we all welcomed Bagley back as a player that would assume Deadman and Giles minutes, and be better than them. The issue is that he may be affecting the team worse than them because the team is allotting him double their minutes. Im whole heartedly on the side of that he should be earning his minutes. He should play back up big minutes, that would extend if he was holding his own. He can develop that way too, with all the off court tutelage etc. But most of all, we have Buddy/Bogi/Barnes/Cojo/Holmes etc in their primes, busting tail to get this last playoff seed. It cant be fair to them, or IMO the majority of fans to not watch optimal rotations for a borderline playoff team that could hinge on winning/losing. But it doesnt look like that argument is going to win with the FO, who partially fired Joerger over this, and Luke who still has a lengthy contract and/or is pressured by said FO. I guess having a Wiseman ticket come the offseason isnt so bad, but its just annoying for me to see this as someone who wants to win.

Not so sure this is the issue, he hasn't even played 25 minutes in a game since he's been back. Fox played 29 minutes in his first game back from a worse injury where he was expected to be out 2-3 weeks longer than he ended up being.

What I would like to see him earn, however, is his place in the offense. When he gets the ball, he rarely passes out somewhere and will force up a shot. He needs to let the offense come to him and keep the flow of the offense moving.

If that -19 he posted last night was 10 minutes less and was halved, we win.

It’s still a lot of potential negative minutes on a borderline team that needs all hands on deck

Team was at its best when it’s best bigs were playing and there was a short rotation

I’d prefer him playing a backup role that expanded if he was passable

He's still raw. He possesses very good athletic tools at his disposal. His rebounding tenacity and general motor are great. That being said, it's hard to pin-point what he can do well when it comes down to general scoring. Is he a face-up, drive by guy? Interior scorer? Stretch 4/5? He runs the floor very well for dunk opportunities. I feel he is still experimenting stage and trying on things what works for him. Unfortunately, probably to a detriment to the team success at this stage, imo.

At this point, he is a glorified garbage scorer who can finish plays near the rim. I really like what I saw in the second half of last season from him. I wanted to see another jump from that version of Bagley but unfortunately he has been out for a period of time. He needs to shake the rust off and continue improving on his play from the previous season. I really do think he needs to establish 2 types of jump shot: inside the 3PT line (big man mid jump shot ala Bosh, KG, Duncan) and a 3PT shot: (similar to KAT) to take his game several levels up.

His defense is still very naive (save one or two specific attributes i.e. man-to-man, shot blocking), but I do think it really comes down to game experience and getting the proper coaching for it.

He looks physically over matched at times, and is a poor rim defender.
Unfair to him, but he will be viewed as the guy we passed on Doncic to get.
That decision now looks a major head scratcher right now.

KF10 wrote:
His defense is still very naive (save one or two specific attributes i.e. man-to-man, shot blocking), but I do think it really comes down to game experience and getting the proper coaching for it.

I hope it comes down to court time. You never can tell with BBIQ.... He does have a motor, that is on his side, and that is where my hopes are he can clean a lot of this up, but how much you can teach game feel always makes me a tad uneasy

Still, with that motor and athleticism I’m going to hope for the best, as those are good and important attributes

He will be fine.
Think about being a 20yo that is constantly hearing his name linked with Luka, he has a good summer, gets injured and the other guy blows up.
It looks to me like he wants to dominate scoring the ball and he is making the mistake of forcing too much.
He has the confidence that he can lead a team, but he doesn't have the skillset at this stage.
Other than the obvious things, he needs to work on his outside shot, once that develops he will be fantastic.
If he can show improvement on that and finish the season somewhere around 36-37% on 4 attempts per game he is well on the way. But to get there he has to have that mindset of taking outside shots.

Am I the only one who thinks he's the same verision from last season? Watching games I can't point out what he worked on in the summer which wasnt the case with Fox last season...all it took was 1 summer league game to see there was growth.

I'll remain optimistic with Bagley but I'm not blind. Year two leap Fox >>> Bagley

City of Trees wrote:Am I the only one who thinks he's the same verision from last season? Watching games I can't point out what he worked on in the summer which wasnt the case with Fox last season...all it took was 1 summer league game to see there was growth.

I'll remain optimistic with Bagley but I'm not blind. Year two leap Fox >>> Bagley

The biggest thing I see with Bagley is that his defensive game has a loooong way to go. His defensive IQ is basically non-existent, he kills our rotations and leaves everybody else hanging out to dry. He'll get a nice weak side block every once in a while but in one-on-one situations and in help defense, he's pretty bad.

Definitely agree that he looks like exactly the same player as he was last year.

codydaze wrote:

City of Trees wrote:Am I the only one who thinks he's the same verision from last season? Watching games I can't point out what he worked on in the summer which wasnt the case with Fox last season...all it took was 1 summer league game to see there was growth.

I'll remain optimistic with Bagley but I'm not blind. Year two leap Fox >>> Bagley

The biggest thing I see with Bagley is that his defensive game has a loooong way to go. His defensive IQ is basically non-existent, he kills our rotations and leaves everybody else hanging out to dry. He'll get a nice weak side block every once in a while but in one-on-one situations and in help defense, he's pretty bad.

Definitely agree that he looks like exactly the same player as he was last year.

And, you hope defensive IQ is correctable with repetition, or if some players are just a McLemore dumb, indefinitely.

It’s a serious question, and there is only one way to find out

I used to be annoyed that he was costing us games, now that I’m back on tank train, I don’t mind him getting the run as much. It’s just annoying, that your second year, building block, is a human tank

This thought process about Bagley's potential is frightening. The idea that you would compare Bagley to someone like Giannis is, in my opinion, a complete misrepresentation of Bagley's current and potential skill set. Bagley's upside to me is a more athletic Sabonis. Not a point-4 that is an anchor/distributor for the team on both offense and defense. Bagley has not shown that he can stay in front of just about anyone and his defensive rating bears that out. He has a net rating of -15 right now. The eye test shows him switching to smaller players and getting destroyed. He also has tunnel vision on offense which doesn't suggest a distributor role either. I sincerely hope Luke and the FO are blowing smoke here and not honestly suggesting Bagley will be good enough to play 1-5.

https://www.sacbee.com/sports/nba/sacramento-kings/article238667793.html

Super team just super young.

Marvin Bagley III's dad tweeted (and deleted) he wants the Kings to trade his son

City of Trees wrote:Am I the only one who thinks he's the same verision from last season? Watching games I can't point out what he worked on in the summer which wasnt the case with Fox last season...all it took was 1 summer league game to see there was growth.

I'll remain optimistic with Bagley but I'm not blind. Year two leap Fox >>> Bagley

One year later and sadly this still rings true.

Nice get it done.

City of Trees wrote:

City of Trees wrote:Am I the only one who thinks he's the same verision from last season? Watching games I can't point out what he worked on in the summer which wasnt the case with Fox last season...all it took was 1 summer league game to see there was growth.

I'll remain optimistic with Bagley but I'm not blind. Year two leap Fox >>> Bagley

One year later and sadly this still rings true.

Yep he had multiple possessions today where he should have used his right hand. But 3 years in he is still very left hand dominant. He should have improved in that area by now. The lack of improvement is very disconcerting as is his lack of maturity getting away from his dad.

BoogieTime wrote:

codydaze wrote:

City of Trees wrote:Am I the only one who thinks he's the same verision from last season? Watching games I can't point out what he worked on in the summer which wasnt the case with Fox last season...all it took was 1 summer league game to see there was growth.

I'll remain optimistic with Bagley but I'm not blind. Year two leap Fox >>> Bagley

The biggest thing I see with Bagley is that his defensive game has a loooong way to go. His defensive IQ is basically non-existent, he kills our rotations and leaves everybody else hanging out to dry. He'll get a nice weak side block every once in a while but in one-on-one situations and in help defense, he's pretty bad.

Definitely agree that he looks like exactly the same player as he was last year.

And, you hope defensive IQ is correctable with repetition, or if some players are just a McLemore dumb, indefinitely.

It’s a serious question, and there is only one way to find out

I used to be annoyed that he was costing us games, now that I’m back on tank train, I don’t mind him getting the run as much. It’s just annoying, that your second year, building block, is a human tank

I agree but think for the first half you want to showcase, Barnes, CoJo and Bjelicia for trades. Once the first half of the season ends, I would hope the Kings have a steady diet of Bagley, Haliburton, Guy and Woodard.