Luke Walton Discussion Thread

[bleeds_purple]

I was going to make a new post for this but I didn't want to pile on more negativity.

At this point I'm firmly of the belief that Walton is the biggest to blame for this disaster of a season:

1. Doesn't hold players accountable and instead gives in to their worst tendencies. A good coach is going to rein in his players in; instead it seems like Walton a "player's coach" just gives them free rein to do whatever they want. The worst example of this is Buddy Hield who is being put into a position to fail by Walton who has him handling the ball and trying to be a player maker. That's simply not his game. I would go as far as to say Walton is well on the path to destroying Buddy's career. Buddy is becoming a collection of bad habits and desperately needs a coach to set him straight. You can see the frustration grow each game as he continues to rack up bad performances.

2. Terrible rotations. Whether its running multiple point guards at once (one of them being Cojo so negating any speed/shooting advantage you would hope to achieve with such a lineup); playing no centers when we're getting killed on the inside; refusing to play Harry/Marvin together despite them showing incredible chemistry last year; overplaying Ariza who is largely washed up instead of promising rookie Justin James, safe to say his rotations are awful.

3. Overall gameplan is a disaster. Walton inherited the fastest paced team in the league. What did he do? Turn us into the slowest pace team in the league. It was only after the season was virtually over that we saw any semblance of pace. The worst part is, when Fox and Bagley went down we became even slower which set us up for disaster when they returned. Anyone with half a brain would know if your two young guys go down (who thrive in fast pace) and you implement a system diametrically opposed to their strengths you are going to have severe problems integrating them within the team. That's exactly what happened here.

In other words, Walton has failed at every aspect of coaching.

Now what we're seeing is incredibly high BBIQ Fox, who usually likes to play a winning brand of basketball by getting his teammates involved, has finally said "**** it" and is trying to will his team to victory. I commend Fox for his efforts but he is going to be so beaten up by the end of the year playing like this.

Creating a new thread for this since I think it's worth its own - codydaze

[codydaze]

I was going to make a new post for this but I didn't want to pile on more negativity.

At this point I'm firmly of the belief that Walton is the biggest to blame for this disaster of a season:

1. Doesn't hold players accountable and instead gives in to their worst tendencies. A good coach is going to rein in his players in; instead it seems like Walton a "player's coach" just gives them free rein to do whatever they want. The worst example of this is Buddy Hield who is being put into a position to fail by Walton who has him handling the ball and trying to be a player maker. That's simply not his game. I would go as far as to say Walton is well on the path to destroying Buddy's career. Buddy is becoming a collection of bad habits and desperately needs a coach to set him straight. You can see the frustration grow each game as he continues to rack up bad performances.

I'd agree here that Buddy needs to be doing less ball handling and more moving off the ball to create catch and shoot opportunities.

You can see it in the numbers:
- Last year, 32.5% of his shots came in catch & shoot situations. Down to 29.8% this year.
- Last year, 41% of his shots came from dribble pull ups. Up to 48.3% this year.
- Last year, he had the ball in his hand 2.44 seconds per touch with 1.75 dribbles per touch and that up to 3.41 seconds and 2.85 dribbles, respectively. This has caused his efficiency to drop a bit, he was averaging .370 points per touch last year which has dropped to .342 so far this year.

2. Terrible rotations. Whether its running multiple point guards at once (one of them being Cojo so negating any speed/shooting advantage you would hope to achieve with such a lineup); playing no centers when we're getting killed on the inside; refusing to play Harry/Marvin together despite them showing incredible chemistry last year; overplaying Ariza who is largely washed up instead of promising rookie Justin James, safe to say his rotations are awful.

Here is where I agree less. It's difficult to get a grasp of rotations when you have different guys out with different injuries every game, there's just no consistency so you need to tinker lineups to find what works. I do agree that Justin James should be getting more run however.

If you look at the two man combination of CoJo/Fox though, it's one of our best in terms of +/-. They're our 11th best 2 man combination at +16 on the year and they've played 130 minutes together so it's a pretty good sample size. I'm sure we'll see Giles/Bagley some point soon with Holmes being out, but Bagley has been injured so much there just hasn't been a whole lot of opportunity for them to play together.

3. Overall gameplan is a disaster. Walton inherited the fastest paced team in the league. What did he do? Turn us into the slowest pace team in the league. It was only after the season was virtually over that we saw any semblance of pace. The worst part is, when Fox and Bagley went down we became even slower which set us up for disaster when they returned. Anyone with half a brain would know if your two young guys go down (who thrive in fast pace) and you implement a system diametrically opposed to their strengths you are going to have severe problems integrating them within the team. That's exactly what happened here.

In other words, Walton has failed at every aspect of coaching.

Now what we're seeing is incredibly high BBIQ Fox, who usually likes to play a winning brand of basketball by getting his teammates involved, has finally said "**** it" and is trying to will his team to victory. I commend Fox for his efforts but he is going to be so beaten up by the end of the year playing like this.

Walton isn't a perfect coach, he's got some faults but so far I feel he's about on par with what Joerger was for us. He's also had a ton of injuries to deal with, Fox/Bogdan/Bagley have been available in the same game only three times this year, that's not Walton's fault. I get that we want to be good now and patience is wearing thin but you've got to give Walton some more time before judging what he can or can't do with this team in my opinion.

[Duke4life831]

Has Walton come out and talked about why you guys play at such a slow pace? You guys thrived last year at getting up and down the court (makes sense when you have guys like Fox, Bagley and Hield). You would think this team would be coached like the Pels and basically say no matter the situation, make or miss, when you get the ball push it as fast as you can. You would think the game plan would be to play to the strengths of your young players, to at the minimum at least see if they're worth continuing to build around them or move them.

I was a defender of the Walton hiring, but it really looks like Walton has no clue what he is doing out there.

[codydaze]

I think it's worth having a separate thread for the topic.

Let's have some constructive discussion and not do too much bashing here.

[codydaze]

Has Walton come out and talked about why you guys play at such a slow pace? You guys thrived last year at getting up and down the court (makes sense when you have guys like Fox, Bagley and Hield). You would think this team would be coached like the Pels and basically say no matter the situation, make or miss, when you get the ball push it as fast as you can. You would think the game plan would be to play to the strengths of your young players, to at the minimum at least see if they're worth continuing to build around them or move them.

I was a defender of the Walton hiring, but it really looks like Walton has no clue what he is doing out there.

I think that a big part of it was the Fox/Bagley were out so long. Our season's pace is low because of that long stretch without them and that's when we were actually performing well because it suited the unit we had out there. I might be off a bit on the numbers but the last 7 or so games I believe we're second in pace and that happened to coincide with Fox coming back. Not that Fox/Bagley are back together (fingers crossed it stays that way), I expect the pace to start to pick up as it already has.

The biggest thing with Walton that's been mentioned above is his utilization of Buddy. He's had the ball in his hands so much more this year and he is just not suited for it all, he has no handle and makes boneheaded mistakes all the time. He needs to be moving without the ball and getting more catch and shoot looks.

[SacKingZZZ]

I thought because of how good Walton was early the concerns about his garbage rotations wouldn't travel from LA but they have. They were tight early in the season and now they've blown up into mass substitutions that make the team worse. That period of time between the lineup getting in and settling back into the flow routinely finds them down double digits before he even calls a timeout. This has been costing them games for weeks now.

[Duke4life831]

Has Walton come out and talked about why you guys play at such a slow pace? You guys thrived last year at getting up and down the court (makes sense when you have guys like Fox, Bagley and Hield). You would think this team would be coached like the Pels and basically say no matter the situation, make or miss, when you get the ball push it as fast as you can. You would think the game plan would be to play to the strengths of your young players, to at the minimum at least see if they're worth continuing to build around them or move them.

I was a defender of the Walton hiring, but it really looks like Walton has no clue what he is doing out there.

I think that a big part of it was the Fox/Bagley were out so long. Our season's pace is low because of that long stretch without them and that's when we were actually performing well because it suited the unit we had out there. I might be off a bit on the numbers but the last 7 or so games I believe we're second in pace and that happened to coincide with Fox coming back. Not that Fox/Bagley are back together (fingers crossed it stays that way), I expect the pace to start to pick up as it already has.

The biggest thing with Walton that's been mentioned above is his utilization of Buddy. He's had the ball in his hands so much more this year and he is just not suited for it all, he has no handle and makes boneheaded mistakes all the time. He needs to be moving without the ball and getting more catch and shoot looks.

Ya. It seems like Buddy has almost been put in the Bodgan role from last year. He does dribble it almost twice as much per touch this year compared to last year. His frequency for being the PnR ball handler also jumped from 16% last year to 26% this year (while doing it at a horrible 36th percentile). His shots assisted on rate has taken a significant drop as well (50% to 39% on 2s and 84% to 69% on 3s). I am sure some of this is influenced because of the time without Fox, but ya even with Fox back I have noticed this as well.

The more I watch Walton, it definitely looks like he doesn't really know what he's doing with this roster. I also know there hasn't been much time to try it out, but I am surprised that he hasn't really tried the Bagley/Giles combo much (if at all) this year. Those two together last year played well off of each other and I believe had a + On/Off together. But with Bagley's rough start and again only 11 games, I dont hold Walton too much on this part, just something that I noticed.

[codydaze]

Has Walton come out and talked about why you guys play at such a slow pace? You guys thrived last year at getting up and down the court (makes sense when you have guys like Fox, Bagley and Hield). You would think this team would be coached like the Pels and basically say no matter the situation, make or miss, when you get the ball push it as fast as you can. You would think the game plan would be to play to the strengths of your young players, to at the minimum at least see if they're worth continuing to build around them or move them.

I was a defender of the Walton hiring, but it really looks like Walton has no clue what he is doing out there.

I think that a big part of it was the Fox/Bagley were out so long. Our season's pace is low because of that long stretch without them and that's when we were actually performing well because it suited the unit we had out there. I might be off a bit on the numbers but the last 7 or so games I believe we're second in pace and that happened to coincide with Fox coming back. Not that Fox/Bagley are back together (fingers crossed it stays that way), I expect the pace to start to pick up as it already has.

The biggest thing with Walton that's been mentioned above is his utilization of Buddy. He's had the ball in his hands so much more this year and he is just not suited for it all, he has no handle and makes boneheaded mistakes all the time. He needs to be moving without the ball and getting more catch and shoot looks.

Ya. It seems like Buddy has almost been put in the Bodgan role from last year. He does dribble it almost twice as much per touch this year compared to last year. His frequency for being the PnR ball handler also jumped from 16% last year to 26% this year (while doing it at a horrible 36th percentile). His shots assisted on rate has taken a significant drop as well (50% to 39% on 2s and 84% to 69% on 3s). I am sure some of this is influenced because of the time without Fox, but ya even with Fox back I have noticed this as well.

The more I watch Walton, it definitely looks like he doesn't really know what he's doing with this roster. I also know there hasn't been much time to try it out, but I am surprised that he hasn't really tried the Bagley/Giles combo much (if at all) this year. Those two together last year played well off of each other and I believe had a + On/Off together. But with Bagley's rough start and again only 11 games, I dont hold Walton too much on this part, just something that I noticed.

I agree the injuries to Fox and Bogdan have definitely made it to where Buddy sort of has no other option to have the ball in his hands. Another factor is that Yogi was basically our backup point last year and he's a guy that can handle the ball and create some offense but Cory isn't really that type of PG. He's more of a game manager, defensive guy so last year we went from Fox/Bogi/Yogi all being guys who can create to this year having a lot of time missed between Fox/Bogi and then Joseph being the backup point leading Buddy into more of a creator role.

I don't think Walton has been great this year but I don't think he's been as terrible as some are saying either. He's about on par with what Joerger was doing the first year he had Fox in my opinion. There were just as many people calling for Joerger's head when he was here and it's sort of funny to me now we look back on him so fondly. I think Walton at least deserves a stretch where he's got a healthy squad for a decent amount of time before we really start to pick him apart as a coach.

And yes, yes, yes to playing Bagley/Giles together as well. That needs to happen.

[bleeds_purple]

@cody

You have a fair point regarding injuries disrupting things but that does not excuse terrible lineups. We saw again today matching up Bagley on Gobert and Buddy on Bojan was a disaster. Bagley is our worst pick and roll defending big by far. He got destroyed in the pick and roll all game. Buddy is one of our worst overall defenders. Common sense says to put him on O'Neale. Instead Bojan torched him all night. Your result: blow out loss.

I would actually buy more into looking at +/- if the product on the floor actually looked decent at any time. Right now, those stats mean nothing to me. What means a lot is the fact that we play ISO ball on offense and have terrible defense night in and night out.

Joerger was mercurial and make some off-the-wall ballsy decisions that cost us at least half a dozen games last season but he at least geared the team towards its strengths. Walton may as well not even be there. This team just plays like its a pick up game. Not once have I see Walton call a timeout and chew out one of the players for being a bone head. What it looks like to me is he is fully willing to let them do whatever they want. That's a recipe for disaster. Especially with a young team.

Trading for Tolliver plus what we've seen on the court signifies to me we've decided Bagley is a 5. I don't see it personally. He can't anchor a defense.

[BoogieTime]

Personally I think the team has quit on him.

I think there is a countdown to Igor replacing him. I’m not necessarily a fan of that, as it will probably preserve Vlade. But, Vlade, if he’s still calling the shots, might have an itchy finger, that will get itchier as the losses accumulate with this schedule

[bleeds_purple]

https://old.reddit.com/r/kings/comments/eqtzpe/here_are_my_observations_after_sitting_court_side/

This was enlightening and confirms a lot of my suspicions.

[kalenclayton]

https://old.reddit.com/r/kings/comments/eqtzpe/here_are_my_observations_after_sitting_court_side/

This was enlightening and confirms a lot of my suspicions.

I think it’s pretty ridiculous that these guys aren’t getting fired up. Like, realize that if your coach isn’t going to do anything for you, do it yourself. Maybe they are just trying to prove a point. Regardless, you guys are just going to get humiliated if you don’t come out with fire. That’s exactly what happened.

[SmellingColors]

Personally I think the team has quit on him.

I think there is a countdown to Igor replacing him. I’m not necessarily a fan of that, as it will probably preserve Vlade. But, Vlade, if he’s still calling the shots, might have an itchy finger, that will get itchier as the losses accumulate with this schedule

In my opinion, when Vlade went out and talked about how close Luke and he are, how Luke is an extension of him on the court and everything, he tied himself to Luke's fate. I know it doesn't work that literally most times, but if they fire Luke, Vlade needs to be gone. I still can't believe he hired Luke without interviewing anyone.

[KF10]

Luke is a yes guy to the FO and a players coach.

One of the worst combination traits in a head coach you can conjure up.

Dude should have never been hired in the first place.

Warriors and Lakers fans were telling the truth, this guy sucks so bad.

[WuTang_OG]

There was a stretch for a while u guys were playing well. I think it was earlier in the year when you beat Boston and played Toronto on the road (even tho u lost, u played well)

[bleeds_purple]

There was a stretch for a while u guys were playing well. I think it was earlier in the year when you beat Boston and played Toronto on the road (even tho u lost, u played well)

That wasn't really sustainable. We were playing well as a team but at a snail's' pace and with a collection of role players. That playstyle is diametrically opposed to our two most talented players' strengths. It was a foolish decision to even have the team play like that in the first place and we are seeing the results now that Fox and Bagley are reintegrated and the entire playstyle needing to be changed mid-season.