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Time to Rebuild Again

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Bosnian Diehard
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Time to Rebuild Again 

Post#1 » by Bosnian Diehard » Mon Aug 3, 2020 12:42 am

We have to rebuild again. Everyone but Fox should be on the table. Vlade and Luke have to be fired this off-season (doubt they will, though).

The resurgence from January-March was clearly fool’s gold, as was the entirety of last season (39-43 is solid for a rising team, but they finished on a downward trend after a very bad second half of the season).

I’ve been a diehard Kings fan literally my entire life, but if we keep the same team and management next season, I’ll be done following this team.
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Re: Time to Rebuild Again 

Post#2 » by BoogieTime » Mon Aug 3, 2020 1:01 am

100%

I might keep Richaun too

But next year we need a new GM (I don’t care if Luke hangs around to save the organization money as it will be draft pick time), and to get rid of the vets that will treadmill the team

We should be young with new direction and building through the draft, next year.
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Re: Time to Rebuild Again 

Post#3 » by KF10 » Mon Aug 3, 2020 1:05 am

- Nothing will change with Vlade in charge with the exec moves .
- Nothing will change with Walton in charge with the coaching.
- Vivek has been tame for the past couple of years but dude has the tendency to meddle with key decisions.

I know you can't get rid of Vivek (outside of a hostile takeover by the league or someone buys the team from him), so you need to get rid of both Vlade/Walton and pray that Vivek stays away from the decision making process.

Those two moves can greatly move the Kings to the right direction.

Let the new GM have a carte blanche for 3 years.

If he can build a winning product or an up and coming team, keep the GM. If not, start over again.

I can't believe Sam Hinkie is black listed from the NBA, while you have a doofus in Vlade in charge of an NBA team lol

Hinkie would be my #1 choice but that is not happening.

Who is the hottest GM available? And coach?

Nothing will change if we keep Vlade and Walton for next season. You have to get rid of BOTH guys. If you keep one of them, you are not fixing anything.

The players will definitely revolt if things stay the same. It's going to be a toxic situation by next season. If I had my way, I trade everyone to the highest bidder -- acquire as much assets: draft picks, cap flexibility, young players as I can.
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Re: Time to Rebuild Again 

Post#4 » by BoogieTime » Mon Aug 3, 2020 4:26 am

KF10 wrote:- Nothing will change with Vlade in charge with the exec moves .
- Nothing will change with Walton in charge with the coaching.
- Vivek has been tame for the past couple of years but dude has the tendency to meddle with key decisions.

I know you can't get rid of Vivek (outside of a hostile takeover by the league or someone buys the team from him), so you need to get rid of both Vlade/Walton and pray that Vivek stays away from the decision making process.

Those two moves can greatly move the Kings to the right direction.

Let the new GM have a carte blanche for 3 years.

If he can build a winning product or an up and coming team, keep the GM. If not, start over again.

I can't believe Sam Hinkie is black listed from the NBA, while you have a doofus in Vlade in charge of an NBA team lol

Hinkie would be my #1 choice but that is not happening.

Who is the hottest GM available? And coach?

Nothing will change if we keep Vlade and Walton for next season. You have to get rid of BOTH guys. If you keep one of them, you are not fixing anything.

The players will definitely revolt if things stay the same. It's going to be a toxic situation by next season. If I had my way, I trade everyone to the highest bidder -- acquire as much assets: draft picks, cap flexibility, young players as I can.


We have a small pocketed ownership that won’t be making much money from revenue. We’ll be lucky if they can afford the needed GM change. I’m not sure Paying two sets of coaches/front offices for three years is on the table. Nice to think about it though
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Re: Time to Rebuild Again 

Post#5 » by KF10 » Mon Aug 3, 2020 5:22 am

BoogieTime wrote:We have a small pocketed ownership that won’t be making much money from revenue. We’ll be lucky if they can afford the needed GM change. I’m not sure Paying two sets of coaches/front offices for three years is on the table. Nice to think about it though


Yeah, the chances of any major shake-up in both the front office and coaching is almost zero.

Vlade and Walton are absolutely terrible in their jobs. It makes me sick to think that they will most likely stick around until their contracts end.

I would kill to get Mike Malone or Dave Joerger back. But that ain't happening.

But anyways, what's next for the Kings?

I think it is safe to say that the Kings will not make the POs.

I predicted a 2-6 record before the first bubble game. Now, after watching them go 0-2, I don't see them do better than a 1-7 record.

I would try my best to trade Buddy, Barnes, and Bagley this offseason. Extract as much value you can from them. Offload the CoJo contract (2021-22 is partially guaranteed). Re-sign Bogi to an affordable deal.

Construct a team identity. Just go all in with the "tough-nosed defense, intensity basketball" Find players in the FA and in the draft that matches the team identity. Give me players that are hungry, plays tough D, high character, culture players.

Build around Fox. Surround this guy with shooters, high-motor players that play D and run.

Fox/____
Bogdan/____
____/____
____/____
Holmes/____ (or vice-versa)

This is the true spine of team.

Huge gaps in both SF & PF positions. Holmes at C is decent but if you can upgrade, do it. Back-up PG, SG and C are lacking.

I really hope Vlade is doing his HW with his draft picks. This team needs an infusion of new blood.

This current core of Kings players are flawed. Bad habits and attitudes are set in already. Did you see after the Orlando lost today? The Kings players were all smiles and didn't gave any $#@! about the L. They were buddy buddy with the Orlando players post game. That pissed me off the most today.

No one is off the table.
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Re: Time to Rebuild Again 

Post#6 » by blind prophet » Mon Aug 3, 2020 4:25 pm

Well the draft class this year is not considered a good one. So there's one problem. Also our pick position is not going to be great most likely.

But if we do it, should try to get picks in 21 & 22

Try to use Buddy for worse salary and a pick
Same with Barnes.

Holmes and Bjelica maybe move near the deadline for whatever we can get.

Bagley is not worth much, so keep and pray he does something.
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Re: Time to Rebuild Again 

Post#7 » by RipPizzaGuy » Mon Aug 3, 2020 6:59 pm

BoogieTime wrote:
KF10 wrote:- Nothing will change with Vlade in charge with the exec moves .
- Nothing will change with Walton in charge with the coaching.
- Vivek has been tame for the past couple of years but dude has the tendency to meddle with key decisions.

I know you can't get rid of Vivek (outside of a hostile takeover by the league or someone buys the team from him), so you need to get rid of both Vlade/Walton and pray that Vivek stays away from the decision making process.

Those two moves can greatly move the Kings to the right direction.

Let the new GM have a carte blanche for 3 years.

If he can build a winning product or an up and coming team, keep the GM. If not, start over again.

I can't believe Sam Hinkie is black listed from the NBA, while you have a doofus in Vlade in charge of an NBA team lol

Hinkie would be my #1 choice but that is not happening.

Who is the hottest GM available? And coach?

Nothing will change if we keep Vlade and Walton for next season. You have to get rid of BOTH guys. If you keep one of them, you are not fixing anything.

The players will definitely revolt if things stay the same. It's going to be a toxic situation by next season. If I had my way, I trade everyone to the highest bidder -- acquire as much assets: draft picks, cap flexibility, young players as I can.


We have a small pocketed ownership that won’t be making much money from revenue. We’ll be lucky if they can afford the needed GM change. I’m not sure Paying two sets of coaches/front offices for three years is on the table. Nice to think about it though


I kinda have a feeling this will be the case. We will go status quo. Try to get a Fox extension done, probably sign 1 or 2 vets that won't make a difference. I can see the big change being trading Buddy. Giving the team another year because they don't want to pay what it will cost for a real difference.

Its just plain as day that this team isn't good. I'm praying that Marvin Bagley eventually can stay healthy and be a difference maker, but it doesn't look great. He has little to no trade value, so trying to move him just makes zero sense.

Our team is really missing a real 1st option and a real 3rd option. We have way to many 4th/5th guys like Bogdan, Buddy, and Barnes. But they cast Buddy into a 2nd option role and he doesn't look good at all. I have no doubt that once he gets to a real team that can utilize him properly he will ball out. Its unfortunate that it won't happen here under these circumstances.

Its likely we will deal with this disaster for the next few years. Fox will sign some 3 year deal, and he won't even see the full thing out.

Crazy to think we passed on Luka because Fox was the ball handler. I defended it at the time partially. But realistically this team would be so good with both of them sharing the offense right now.
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Re: Time to Rebuild Again 

Post#8 » by KF10 » Mon Aug 3, 2020 9:05 pm

RipPizzaGuy wrote:I kinda have a feeling this will be the case. We will go status quo. Try to get a Fox extension done, probably sign 1 or 2 vets that won't make a difference. I can see the big change being trading Buddy. Giving the team another year because they don't want to pay what it will cost for a real difference.

Its just plain as day that this team isn't good. I'm praying that Marvin Bagley eventually can stay healthy and be a difference maker, but it doesn't look great. He has little to no trade value, so trying to move him just makes zero sense.

Our team is really missing a real 1st option and a real 3rd option. We have way to many 4th/5th guys like Bogdan, Buddy, and Barnes. But they cast Buddy into a 2nd option role and he doesn't look good at all. I have no doubt that once he gets to a real team that can utilize him properly he will ball out. Its unfortunate that it won't happen here under these circumstances.

Its likely we will deal with this disaster for the next few years. Fox will sign some 3 year deal, and he won't even see the full thing out.

Crazy to think we passed on Luka because Fox was the ball handler. I defended it at the time partially. But realistically this team would be so good with both of them sharing the offense right now.


Fox is like John Wall with brain cells. He is the only true, real piece on this team.

But Fox doesn't have the "top-dog alpha" mentality like Wall. I don't expect Fox to turn into a player that carries the team night in and night out. Fox is like CJ McCollum. An all-star level player. A real nice 2nd option. But the team is missing their Damian Lillard.

The idea of drafting Bagley is sometime in the future is to have him to be that stud face-up scorer that flies around the court, rebounds, and carries the general load. Have him as the 2-headed dragon with Fox and himself. Have the rest of the team filled with shooters and tough defenders.

The problem is that Bagley is made out of glass and his shooting isn't at par. He is predictable with his left hand. And defensively, he is pretty bad. He is a black hole and doesn't create with the ball. At this point, he is a very flawed player that relies on his sheer athleticism and overall springiness. He does have a knack for getting rebounds out of nowhere and does have one or two moves near the basket that looks fine.

I would be ecstatic as hell if he becomes 75% of a peak Chris Bosh. But as time passes, he is looking more and more like a combination of a Kenneth Faried and Randle weird hybrid. Not a terribly bad player but not an elite one either.

So, the top 2 young pieces: Fox (who is a better brain version of Wall but lacks his assertiveness) and Bagley (who is probably a Faried/Randle playing style player). Fox, even with his limitations, is pretty nice in my books. Bagley, on the other hand, is disappointing. We better wish and hope Bagley turns a new leaf and develops into a killer player. That non-Doncic pick has set this franchise back a good 10 years. Gotta mitigate the blow as much as you can.
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Re: Time to Rebuild Again 

Post#9 » by SacKingZZZ » Mon Aug 3, 2020 9:59 pm

Vlade better realize that Luke Walton is an anchor otherwise good luck hiring a new GM to clean up the mess left over.
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Re: Time to Rebuild Again 

Post#10 » by RipPizzaGuy » Mon Aug 3, 2020 10:07 pm

KF10 wrote:
RipPizzaGuy wrote:I kinda have a feeling this will be the case. We will go status quo. Try to get a Fox extension done, probably sign 1 or 2 vets that won't make a difference. I can see the big change being trading Buddy. Giving the team another year because they don't want to pay what it will cost for a real difference.

Its just plain as day that this team isn't good. I'm praying that Marvin Bagley eventually can stay healthy and be a difference maker, but it doesn't look great. He has little to no trade value, so trying to move him just makes zero sense.

Our team is really missing a real 1st option and a real 3rd option. We have way to many 4th/5th guys like Bogdan, Buddy, and Barnes. But they cast Buddy into a 2nd option role and he doesn't look good at all. I have no doubt that once he gets to a real team that can utilize him properly he will ball out. Its unfortunate that it won't happen here under these circumstances.

Its likely we will deal with this disaster for the next few years. Fox will sign some 3 year deal, and he won't even see the full thing out.

Crazy to think we passed on Luka because Fox was the ball handler. I defended it at the time partially. But realistically this team would be so good with both of them sharing the offense right now.


Fox is like John Wall with brain cells. He is the only true, real piece on this team.

But Fox doesn't have the "top-dog alpha" mentality like Wall. I don't expect Fox to turn into a player that carries the team night in and night out. Fox is like CJ McCollum. An all-star level player. A real nice 2nd option. But the team is missing their Damian Lillard.

The idea of drafting Bagley is sometime in the future is to have him to be that stud face-up scorer that flies around the court, rebounds, and carries the general load. Have him as the 2-headed dragon with Fox and himself. Have the rest of the team filled with shooters and tough defenders.

The problem is that Bagley is made out of glass and his shooting isn't at par. He is predictable with his left hand. And defensively, he is pretty bad. He is a black hole and doesn't create with the ball. At this point, he is a very flawed player that relies on his sheer athleticism and overall springiness. He does have a knack for getting rebounds out of nowhere and does have one or two moves near the basket that looks fine.

I would be ecstatic as hell if he becomes 75% of a peak Chris Bosh. But as time passes, he is looking more and more like a combination of a Kenneth Faried and Randle weird hybrid. Not a terribly bad player but not an elite one either.

So, the top 2 young pieces: Fox (who is a better brain version of Wall but lacks his assertiveness) and Bagley (who is probably a Faried/Randle playing style player). Fox, even with his limitations, is pretty nice in my books. Bagley, on the other hand, is disappointing. We better wish and hope Bagley turns a new leaf and develops into a killer player. That non-Doncic pick has set this franchise back a good 10 years. Gotta mitigate the blow as much as you can.


I'm with you on Fox. Exactly my thoughts. I think hes best suited for a role where he can average around 20-8. He can be your 2nd leading scorer, and theres times when you let him be that go to guy. Ideally you have another guy around him who is really that lead dog.

I have a super hard time judging Bagley. I try to erase what I saw this year just because I don't think hes ever had a chance. His rookie year he was bad, but towards the end you could see flashes. A worse defensive Chris Bosh was always the best comparison imo. The good news is from his rookie year he had the form and you could see how with growth his 3pt shot could become semi-consistent. Where as with a guy like Bosh he didn't really develop that until later in his career.

I'll try to hold judgement on him as a player until I see him on the court, but as you said he seems to be made of glass. Seems like one of those "what could have been" type of players. he does need to work on lessening that black hole mentality where the ball gets dumped into him and its obvious hes taking the shot. He risks falling into that Randle fit if that doesn't improve.
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Re: Time to Rebuild Again 

Post#11 » by KF10 » Mon Aug 3, 2020 10:32 pm

RipPizzaGuy wrote:
I'm with you on Fox. Exactly my thoughts. I think hes best suited for a role where he can average around 20-8. He can be your 2nd leading scorer, and theres times when you let him be that go to guy. Ideally you have another guy around him who is really that lead dog.

I have a super hard time judging Bagley. I try to erase what I saw this year just because I don't think hes ever had a chance. His rookie year he was bad, but towards the end you could see flashes. A worse defensive Chris Bosh was always the best comparison imo. The good news is from his rookie year he had the form and you could see how with growth his 3pt shot could become semi-consistent. Where as with a guy like Bosh he didn't really develop that until later in his career.

I'll try to hold judgement on him as a player until I see him on the court, but as you said he seems to be made of glass. Seems like one of those "what could have been" type of players. he does need to work on lessening that black hole mentality where the ball gets dumped into him and its obvious hes taking the shot. He risks falling into that Randle fit if that doesn't improve.


Yeah, Bagley had a disappointing rookie year but he did show enough flashes of potential that keeps the fans excited. But the moment he came into year 2, with absolutely NO change or improvement was inexcusable. He looked the same exact player from his rookie year. Same body and same game. At that moment, I mentally checked him off. IIRC he has missed more games in his first 2 seasons than Greg Oden did in his.

I have a very short leash with Bagley. The moment he comes back next season unprepared and not improved, you gotta cut him off asap. I hope to God that he watches films of Bosh and work on his weaknesses over the summer and fall.

Fox is already a 20-8 player already and looks like he can put up more numbers. But do we really need him to do that though? I would really like if he settles down anywhere from 18-22 PPG, 7-10 APG while playing aggressive and upping his physicality/motor aspect of his game. The Kings do need a legitimate superstar if they want to win. That is the whole point of basketball right? Fox likely tops out as a real nice 2nd option on a good team.

I always wondered if we can replicate the 04 Pistons plan. Where there is no real superstars but a collective of all star level players with great depth.

You need a DPOY level C and a stud defending wing. A stretch 4 and a reliable 2-guard.

What are the real life realistic examples that are available? Whiteside as the C? Bertans as the stretch 4? Crowder as the "stud" defending 3?

Fox
DeRozan
Crowder
Bertans
Whiteside

I'm just throwing out any ideas out there lol
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Re: Time to Rebuild Again 

Post#12 » by RipPizzaGuy » Mon Aug 3, 2020 11:05 pm

Kings are in a tough spot. I think we need to rebuild, without pushing the clock all the way back. If we want to have Fox be part of the future, we are going to need to put together a clear building plan towards the future.

My 2020-2021 offseason plan ----

Trade 1: Kings & Bucks

Kings out: Bjelica

Kings in: Ilyasova & Indiana 1st round pick

Why for Sac? Get a draft pick for Bjelica who has 1 year left on his contract. Also do good by him for choosing us.

------------------------------

Trade 2: Kings and Hawks

Kings out: Buddy Hield + Harrison Barnes + Indiana 1st round pick

Kings in: Deandre Hunter

Why for Kings? This might be an overpay, and Hunter didn't have a great 1st year. But it creates huge flexibility for us, looking around the league its hard to find a taker for Buddy or Barnes let alone both. This move along with the first sheds over 45 million off our payroll

Free Agency:

Resign Bogdan - 3/55 with the starting 2g role.

Resign Bazemore - 1 year 10 million.

Resign Fox - Max

With the additional 30 million of cap space do not sign any long term deals. Overpay 1 year deals to guys like Kris Dunn, Derrick Jones Jr, Alex Len, Caruso, and see if any of them do enough to stick around.

Draft: #11 Saddiq Bey
You can never have enough wings. 3&D player.

Fox / Joseph
Bogdan / Bazemore / Justin James
Hunter / Bay
Bagley / Jefferies
Holmes / Len

Core: Fox, Bogdan, Hunter, Bay, Bagley

This team isn't going to win a ton of games. The first year is about building the identity of the team that we never had. Play small, let Hunter and Bay get a ton of minutes. We only want vets like Bazemore/Holmes/Len who bring it defensively. This surely isn't the end product, but it gets us back to a flexible spot, with some youth that can grow with Fox.
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Re: Time to Rebuild Again 

Post#13 » by RipPizzaGuy » Mon Aug 3, 2020 11:14 pm

KF10 wrote:
RipPizzaGuy wrote:
I'm with you on Fox. Exactly my thoughts. I think hes best suited for a role where he can average around 20-8. He can be your 2nd leading scorer, and theres times when you let him be that go to guy. Ideally you have another guy around him who is really that lead dog.

I have a super hard time judging Bagley. I try to erase what I saw this year just because I don't think hes ever had a chance. His rookie year he was bad, but towards the end you could see flashes. A worse defensive Chris Bosh was always the best comparison imo. The good news is from his rookie year he had the form and you could see how with growth his 3pt shot could become semi-consistent. Where as with a guy like Bosh he didn't really develop that until later in his career.

I'll try to hold judgement on him as a player until I see him on the court, but as you said he seems to be made of glass. Seems like one of those "what could have been" type of players. he does need to work on lessening that black hole mentality where the ball gets dumped into him and its obvious hes taking the shot. He risks falling into that Randle fit if that doesn't improve.


Yeah, Bagley had a disappointing rookie year but he did show enough flashes of potential that keeps the fans excited. But the moment he came into year 2, with absolutely NO change or improvement was inexcusable. He looked the same exact player from his rookie year. Same body and same game. At that moment, I mentally checked him off. IIRC he has missed more games in his first 2 seasons than Greg Oden did in his.

I have a very short leash with Bagley. The moment he comes back next season unprepared and not improved, you gotta cut him off asap. I hope to God that he watches films of Bosh and work on his weaknesses over the summer and fall.

Fox is already a 20-8 player already and looks like he can put up more numbers. But do we really need him to do that though? I would really like if he settles down anywhere from 18-22 PPG, 7-10 APG while playing aggressive and upping his physicality/motor aspect of his game. The Kings do need a legitimate superstar if they want to win. That is the whole point of basketball right? Fox likely tops out as a real nice 2nd option on a good team.

I always wondered if we can replicate the 04 Pistons plan. Where there is no real superstars but a collective of all star level players with great depth.

You need a DPOY level C and a stud defending wing. A stretch 4 and a reliable 2-guard.

What are the real life realistic examples that are available? Whiteside as the C? Bertans as the stretch 4? Crowder as the "stud" defending 3?

Fox
DeRozan
Crowder
Bertans
Whiteside

I'm just throwing out any ideas out there lol


Yea, I'm not super unhappy with Fox's game. The point is where he is at seems perfect, it just needs that superstar next to him to have the team success.

Its funny. This is how grim our outlook is that you say "what if we could replicate the Pistons, we just need to fill out 4/5 positions" lol.

I put a long post above this where I breakdown what i'd try to do. This teams major struggle is defensively. While we don't have a superstar offensive player, we seem to be able to do it as a collective. Defensively, we struggle and every game make some average player like Aaron Gordon or Terrence Ross look like the 2nd coming of T-Mac. I get the Magic were on fire yesterday, but this isn't a new occurrence. Defensively we can't stop anyone.

That is really the change that needs to come. A nice defensive center (Myles Turner) would be awesome. But in today's NBA if you have below average defensive wings, then you better have James Harden on offense to combat it. We need to forge out an identity. We may not be the most talented team, but we struggle in all departments.

One thing that stuck out to me yesterday vs the Magic is the overall length of our team. We don't get in the passing lanes, we never cause teams to make mistakes, and we certainly don't capitalize on the ones we do. Id love to see us add length at literally every position.
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Re: Time to Rebuild Again 

Post#14 » by KF10 » Tue Aug 4, 2020 12:13 am

RipPizzaGuy wrote:
Yea, I'm not super unhappy with Fox's game. The point is where he is at seems perfect, it just needs that superstar next to him to have the team success.

Its funny. This is how grim our outlook is that you say "what if we could replicate the Pistons, we just need to fill out 4/5 positions" lol.

I put a long post above this where I breakdown what i'd try to do. This teams major struggle is defensively. While we don't have a superstar offensive player, we seem to be able to do it as a collective. Defensively, we struggle and every game make some average player like Aaron Gordon or Terrence Ross look like the 2nd coming of T-Mac. I get the Magic were on fire yesterday, but this isn't a new occurrence. Defensively we can't stop anyone.

That is really the change that needs to come. A nice defensive center (Myles Turner) would be awesome. But in today's NBA if you have below average defensive wings, then you better have James Harden on offense to combat it. We need to forge out an identity. We may not be the most talented team, but we struggle in all departments.

One thing that stuck out to me yesterday vs the Magic is the overall length of our team. We don't get in the passing lanes, we never cause teams to make mistakes, and we certainly don't capitalize on the ones we do. Id love to see us add length at literally every position.


Yup. Defense needs to get better. The way they defended the 3PT shot in that Orlando game was disgraceful. The Kings best defenders were Baze and Brewer. The two oldest guys on roster lol

But to be fair, Walton’s defensive schemes were putrid. No adjustments and the lack of recognition of his players getting abused on D due to matchups/switches.

I agree we need more length and size at very position.
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Re: Time to Rebuild Again 

Post#15 » by RipPizzaGuy » Tue Aug 4, 2020 12:26 am

KF10 wrote:
RipPizzaGuy wrote:
Yea, I'm not super unhappy with Fox's game. The point is where he is at seems perfect, it just needs that superstar next to him to have the team success.

Its funny. This is how grim our outlook is that you say "what if we could replicate the Pistons, we just need to fill out 4/5 positions" lol.

I put a long post above this where I breakdown what i'd try to do. This teams major struggle is defensively. While we don't have a superstar offensive player, we seem to be able to do it as a collective. Defensively, we struggle and every game make some average player like Aaron Gordon or Terrence Ross look like the 2nd coming of T-Mac. I get the Magic were on fire yesterday, but this isn't a new occurrence. Defensively we can't stop anyone.

That is really the change that needs to come. A nice defensive center (Myles Turner) would be awesome. But in today's NBA if you have below average defensive wings, then you better have James Harden on offense to combat it. We need to forge out an identity. We may not be the most talented team, but we struggle in all departments.

One thing that stuck out to me yesterday vs the Magic is the overall length of our team. We don't get in the passing lanes, we never cause teams to make mistakes, and we certainly don't capitalize on the ones we do. Id love to see us add length at literally every position.


Yup. Defense needs to get better. The way they defended the 3PT shot in that Orlando game was disgraceful. The Kings best defenders were Baze and Brewer. The two oldest guys on roster lol

But to be fair, Walton’s defensive schemes were putrid. No adjustments and the lack of recognition of his players getting abused on D due to matchups/switches.

I agree we need more length and size at very position.
Ya i wish it was the first time. I cant remember how many times I've been or watched a game where its like look Etwuan Moore dropped 25. Just an absolute disaster.

Its certainly partially on Walton. Bad scheme, bad game plan, lack of discipline. I cant believe we got bamboozled so badly with Walton. I personally wasn't a huge fan or Joerger, but man did we make a bad choice with Walton.

Messina shoulda been the guy. I heard he's a bit of a hard ass and I wonder if moving from Joerger to him scared vlade as more of the same. But damn this team needs a leader not a buddy. Idc if walton and buddy are laughing it up in practice. I haven't seen Buddy change his game or improve one bit over the season. As a coach I would say if you continue to make the same mistakes game in and game out we will be giving your minutes to Justin James. You have tremendous potential but you play like a chicken with your head cutoff.

If he refuses to change then bench him. At some point you need to make a statement.

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King Baller
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Re: Time to Rebuild Again 

Post#16 » by King Baller » Sat Aug 8, 2020 12:05 am

I'm right there with you guys since the Blow out by the Magic. Now this double digit loss to the Nets adds to it.

Vlade said he would step down if things don't work out and they have not. He needs to stand by his word and step down.

Walton needs a team like he coached for the Warriors when Kerr was out. He must be good at stroking super star egos.

The Kings need a Malone or Joerger type coach. We had them in Sactown but stupidly let them go.

The Kings scouting dept. needs some people who have picked winners. They need a GM who has a history of success. A coach with some fire and grit who knows his X's and O's. Kenny Atkinson is available as is Mark Jackson.
"I don't want to hear what he can't do. Tell me what the player can do to help us." Bill Walsh
BoogieTime
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Re: Time to Rebuild Again 

Post#17 » by BoogieTime » Sat Aug 8, 2020 12:14 am

King Baller wrote:I'm right there with you guys since the Blow out by the Magic. Now this double digit loss to the Nets adds to it.

Vlade said he would step down if things don't work out and they have not. He needs to stand by his word and step down.

Walton needs a team like he coached for the Warriors when Kerr was out. He must be good at stroking super star egos.

The Kings need a Malone or Joerger type coach. We had them in Sactown but stupidly let them go.

The Kings scouting dept. needs some people who have picked winners. They need a GM who has a history of success. A coach with some fire and grit who knows his X's and O's. Kenny Atkinson is available as is Mark Jackson.



Kings need to go young and rebuild again and het high picks, coaching isn’t crucial for now, just GM
nolang1
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Re: Time to Rebuild Again 

Post#18 » by nolang1 » Sat Aug 8, 2020 12:48 am

I saw a rumor that the Pacers were looking at letting go of Nate McMillan. If he’s free the Kings should really try to get him. I think he’s done a consistently great job with Indiana.
SmellingColors
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Re: Time to Rebuild Again 

Post#19 » by SmellingColors » Sat Aug 8, 2020 2:36 am

RipPizzaGuy wrote:
KF10 wrote:
RipPizzaGuy wrote:
Yea, I'm not super unhappy with Fox's game. The point is where he is at seems perfect, it just needs that superstar next to him to have the team success.

Its funny. This is how grim our outlook is that you say "what if we could replicate the Pistons, we just need to fill out 4/5 positions" lol.

I put a long post above this where I breakdown what i'd try to do. This teams major struggle is defensively. While we don't have a superstar offensive player, we seem to be able to do it as a collective. Defensively, we struggle and every game make some average player like Aaron Gordon or Terrence Ross look like the 2nd coming of T-Mac. I get the Magic were on fire yesterday, but this isn't a new occurrence. Defensively we can't stop anyone.

That is really the change that needs to come. A nice defensive center (Myles Turner) would be awesome. But in today's NBA if you have below average defensive wings, then you better have James Harden on offense to combat it. We need to forge out an identity. We may not be the most talented team, but we struggle in all departments.

One thing that stuck out to me yesterday vs the Magic is the overall length of our team. We don't get in the passing lanes, we never cause teams to make mistakes, and we certainly don't capitalize on the ones we do. Id love to see us add length at literally every position.


Yup. Defense needs to get better. The way they defended the 3PT shot in that Orlando game was disgraceful. The Kings best defenders were Baze and Brewer. The two oldest guys on roster lol

But to be fair, Walton’s defensive schemes were putrid. No adjustments and the lack of recognition of his players getting abused on D due to matchups/switches.

I agree we need more length and size at very position.
Ya i wish it was the first time. I cant remember how many times I've been or watched a game where its like look Etwuan Moore dropped 25. Just an absolute disaster.

Its certainly partially on Walton. Bad scheme, bad game plan, lack of discipline. I cant believe we got bamboozled so badly with Walton. I personally wasn't a huge fan or Joerger, but man did we make a bad choice with Walton.

Messina shoulda been the guy. I heard he's a bit of a hard ass and I wonder if moving from Joerger to him scared vlade as more of the same. But damn this team needs a leader not a buddy. Idc if walton and buddy are laughing it up in practice. I haven't seen Buddy change his game or improve one bit over the season. As a coach I would say if you continue to make the same mistakes game in and game out we will be giving your minutes to Justin James. You have tremendous potential but you play like a chicken with your head cutoff.

If he refuses to change then bench him. At some point you need to make a statement.

Sent from my SM-G988U1 using RealGM mobile app


Completely agree with the Messina bit especially. I had a feeling this was not going to work with Walton if for no other reason than Vlade interviewed absolutely nobody for the position despite the fact that our coaching position was the most coveted in the league for the first time ever. We're nowhere near that now even if we moved on from Luke.

I doubt Vlade and Luke get fired this off-season so I'd just say, if Vlade stays, he absolutely needs to hire a GM to take over that side and they need to heavily invest in scouting. But it seems like he thinks he knows more than his record proves so I doubt that will happen either.
King Baller
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Re: Time to Rebuild Again 

Post#20 » by King Baller » Sat Aug 8, 2020 3:48 pm

The thing that disappoints me the most in hindsight is that Ronald Burkle does not own the Kings. He made an offer to save the KIngs for Sacramento, however, a conflict of interest as a part-owner of Relativity Sport forced him to drop out.

Burkle co-owns the NHL Pittsburgh Penguins and they won the Stanley Cup a total of 5 times in 1991, 1992, 2009, 2016 and 2017. With this history of success with a pro sports franchise I think the Kings would be in a better place with Burkle as an owner.

Vivek was great to save the KIngs for Sacramento but lacks the experience to be a winner in the NBA IMO. His choices for GM and Coach have not worked out. He had two good Coaches in Malone and Joerger.

He allowed an inexperienced GM Pete D'Allessandro to fire Malone prematurely. Pete D. became known as the "Gerbil" to Kings Fans.

Vlade was allowed to Fire Joerger after the KIngs best season since 2006. Joerger had a Conflict with Kings assistant gm Brandon Williams. Williams was said to have stabbed Joerger in the back repeatedly. Also Williams was the primary force behind the Kings drafting Marvin Bagley over Luka Doncic.

Vlade when hired as KIngs GM offered to step down in two seasons if the KIngs were not in a better place. While KIngs Fans love Vlade as a former player it is time for him to step down as KIngs GM.
"I don't want to hear what he can't do. Tell me what the player can do to help us." Bill Walsh

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