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2021 College Basketball / Draft THREAD

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Re: 2021 College Basketball / Draft THREAD 

Post#101 » by SmellingColors » Thu Jul 22, 2021 6:07 pm

The intrigue of Wagner is that he's decent to good at almost everything and he has size at the 3-4 spot. The intrigue of Moody is his length, 3-D capability, with the opportunity to expand his offensive game. The intrigue of Jalen Johnson is his defensive upside, ability in transition, and his shooting percentages albeit on small sample sizes. The intrigue of Zaire Williams is his length and potential all-around offensive ability at a position of need. The intrigue of Josh Giddey is his elite passing ability and size. The intrigue of Usman Garuba is his elite defense already and that he really just needs to be competent on offense to be a steal of the draft. The intrigue of Keon Johnson is his athleticism, defensive upside, and his slashing. The intrigue of Kai Jones is his motor, athleticism, and potential as a rim protector and 3-pt shooter.

There are a few guys I would be really suspicious it we took (both Johnson's), there are a few that I think would be interesting but would need a lot of development (Williams, Jones), there are some safer selections that may be able to impact as a rookie with maybe lower ceilings (Moody, Wagner), and then there are some that have an elite skill but major holes elsewhere that have to have a specific roster around them to be successful (Giddey, Garuba).

I honestly could understand the justification for just about any of those picks.
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Re: 2021 College Basketball / Draft THREAD 

Post#102 » by BoogieTime » Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:25 pm

Despite the fact that we publicly have not spoken with Wagner, or even worked him out, there is a part of me that is preparing for the smoke to come to fruition. The rumors, the consensus mocks, and even Barnes posting a picture of him playing with Wagner on social media. I wouldn't hate the pick if we are forgoing ceiling and looking for complimentary players. I'd personally prefer him to some of the other role players Ive watched in our range. I haven't seen all the prospects in our range. A player like Jalen Johnson is more boom/bust, where Wagner's floor IMO looks fairly solid.

There is something unappealing about taking the role player with the solid floor to the impetuous fan, but I guess GMs have to be pragmatic as well at times.

Im just getting that energy that there is something to the smoke
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Re: 2021 College Basketball / Draft THREAD 

Post#103 » by codydaze » Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:31 pm

I'm not really thrilled with either one of them but it was between Wagner and Moody, I'd rather go with Wagner. I think he's going to be fine defensively and would fit in our offense much better.

My guy is Trey Murphy though all the way. Crossing fingers we trade down and pick him up along with a guy like Garuba or JT Thor.
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Re: 2021 College Basketball / Draft THREAD 

Post#104 » by basketballRob » Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:00 pm

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Re: 2021 College Basketball / Draft THREAD 

Post#105 » by SmellingColors » Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:53 pm

codydaze wrote:I'm not really thrilled with either one of them but it was between Wagner and Moody, I'd rather go with Wagner. I think he's going to be fine defensively and would fit in our offense much better.

My guy is Trey Murphy though all the way. Crossing fingers we trade down and pick him up along with a guy like Garuba or JT Thor.


This is where I've landed too almost by process of elimination. We need defense, height, and length. Moody is long, but he's 6'6" in shoes which is below average for a 3 and I think he might be better as a 2. Wagner is 6'9"-6'10" and I think moves decent enough to guard 3's and with a little time in the gym, can guard 4's. He also looks like he could fit as a spot up shooter and run some pick and rolls if need be.

I'm not interested in Keon Johnson or Kai Jones, Zaire could be a steal but he'll take too long to develop imo and could easily bust, Giddey is too redundant in a 2 point guard lineup, Sengun is a 5 without the height to match and will be a huge defensive liability, and Jalen Johnson is too much of a risk imo although if his college stats are for real could be really good. I just don't buy it.

I haven't looked at Trey Murphy or JT Thor much yet but I've seen some buzz for both of them. Garuba would be a serious upgrade defensively and allow for a lot of versatile defensive lineups. If he can manage to hit spot up 3's at league average, he'd be huge for us.
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Re: 2021 College Basketball / Draft THREAD 

Post#106 » by City of Trees » Thu Jul 22, 2021 11:04 pm

Apparently I need to check out Trey Murphy
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Re: 2021 College Basketball / Draft THREAD 

Post#107 » by BoogieTime » Thu Jul 22, 2021 11:47 pm

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Yes, and if the rumors of the promise we may have given him were true, so far he hasn't worked out for a team drafting above us, just New Orleans behind us (I believe)
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Re: 2021 College Basketball / Draft THREAD 

Post#108 » by City of Trees » Fri Jul 23, 2021 1:31 am

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Yes, and if the rumors of the promise we may have given him were true, so far he hasn't worked out for a team drafting above us, just New Orleans behind us (I believe)
Let me read between the lines here...Monte sends HB to workout Franz and report back with his opinion.

Dammit.

Wait what promise?
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Re: 2021 College Basketball / Draft THREAD 

Post#109 » by BoogieTime » Fri Jul 23, 2021 2:25 am

City of Trees wrote:
BoogieTime wrote:
basketballRob wrote:
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Yes, and if the rumors of the promise we may have given him were true, so far he hasn't worked out for a team drafting above us, just New Orleans behind us (I believe)
Let me read between the lines here...Monte sends HB to workout Franz and report back with his opinion.

Dammit.

Wait what promise?


Just rumors and random internet reporting on twitter, nothing substantiated. It's just suspicious to me. I think that's why he is widely mocked to us, that it made the rounds to the reporters
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Re: 2021 College Basketball / Draft THREAD 

Post#110 » by City of Trees » Fri Jul 23, 2021 4:42 am

Add Center to the Kings needs with Holmes most likely out the door. Garuba can play both PF/C and guard the perimeter.

If Moody is gone I'll be pounding the table for UG.
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Re: 2021 College Basketball / Draft THREAD 

Post#111 » by rpa » Fri Jul 23, 2021 5:07 am

Few things I'll say here:

- Steals has generally been a pretty good filter for guys who become good wing defenders and who don't (idea being that steals are about awareness as much as physical attributes and players need that awareness to do well in the team aspect of defense). 2 guys being touted as 3&D players (Moody and Murphy) are pretty bad on steals. Point being: I don't trust Moody as a future 3&D guy. That he's also undersized for a 3 should eliminate him.

- I'm lukewarm on Franz, but I think he's an interesting prospect to say the least. His FT% points to being a good shooter in the NBA and his steal rate is decent--pointing to an OK defender. I don't love the fact that his PER40 numbers (with the exception of assists) are nearly unchanged from his freshman to sophomore year. I don't he's going to be a bust, but his ceiling is somewhere around "OK role player".

Assuming none of the top 6 drops (the usual 5 plus Barnes) my remaining favorite is Ziare. Great BBIQ, great height for the wing, high FT% points to being able to develop an outside shot. Ziaire is a great "of course he made it" candidate this year. History of success combined with an outlier of a year from an off-court perspective. Had last season not been destroyed by COVID I think he goes top 5. Reminds me a lot of Jaylen Brown in that they're both high IQ players who came to non-traditional basketball schools in the bay area and didn't look so great.
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Re: 2021 College Basketball / Draft THREAD 

Post#112 » by jazanetti » Fri Jul 23, 2021 9:37 am

City of Trees wrote:Add Center to the Kings needs with Holmes most likely out the door. Garuba can play both PF/C and guard the perimeter.

If Moody is gone I'll be pounding the table for UG.
I really don't think Garuba can defend against NBA centers. May be in 3-5 years, but not now.

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Re: 2021 College Basketball / Draft THREAD 

Post#113 » by SmellingColors » Sat Jul 24, 2021 12:42 am

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Re: 2021 College Basketball / Draft THREAD 

Post#114 » by BoogieTime » Sat Jul 24, 2021 6:32 am

And they took Kai Jones out to dinner, are we supposed to read any intent into that? Seems a nudge beyond a workout.

They are doing their due diligence, and if Franz has some type of wink they are setting up an elaborate disguise by meeting all these prospects and not Wagner at all
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Re: 2021 College Basketball / Draft THREAD 

Post#115 » by City of Trees » Tue Jul 27, 2021 6:28 pm

BoogieTime wrote:
City of Trees wrote:
BoogieTime wrote:

Yes, and if the rumors of the promise we may have given him were true, so far he hasn't worked out for a team drafting above us, just New Orleans behind us (I believe)
Let me read between the lines here...Monte sends HB to workout Franz and report back with his opinion.

Dammit.

Wait what promise?


Just rumors and random internet reporting on twitter, nothing substantiated. It's just suspicious to me. I think that's why he is widely mocked to us, that it made the rounds to the reporters
Heard about the promise on The Lowe Post today. He called Sacramento's soft promise to Franz the worst kept secret in the NBA. He also says Franz has grown to 6'11. Well that changes a lot. 6'11 is huge. I'll need to go back and look at him with the bigger size in mind.

Lowe also believes Memphis is trying to leapfrog Sac to draft Franz.
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Re: 2021 College Basketball / Draft THREAD 

Post#116 » by BoogieTime » Tue Jul 27, 2021 7:42 pm

City of Trees wrote:
BoogieTime wrote:
City of Trees wrote:Let me read between the lines here...Monte sends HB to workout Franz and report back with his opinion.

Dammit.

Wait what promise?


Just rumors and random internet reporting on twitter, nothing substantiated. It's just suspicious to me. I think that's why he is widely mocked to us, that it made the rounds to the reporters
Heard about the promise on The Lowe Post today. He called Sacramento's soft promise to Franz the worst kept secret in the NBA. He also says Franz has grown to 6'11. Well that changes a lot. 6'11 is huge. I'll need to go back and look at him with the bigger size in mind.

Lowe also believes Memphis is trying to leapfrog Sac to draft Franz.


Yes. It makes draft night pretty anticlimactic when you have a fairly good idea of what will happen. Don't know how much I will even tune in (unless Memphis does succeed in trading up)
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Re: 2021 College Basketball / Draft THREAD 

Post#117 » by codydaze » Tue Jul 27, 2021 11:43 pm

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I think we will trade down and take my guy. Hopefully we pick up an additional late first as well, pray Garuba falls or take a guy like JT Thor.
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Re: 2021 College Basketball / Draft THREAD 

Post#118 » by rpa » Wed Jul 28, 2021 12:37 am

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Barf. Murphy's likely trajectory is 2nd or 3rd player off the bench. He's definitely not a starting caliber player. At 9 you need to be drafting a starter. If the Kings were picking, say, 20th then sure Murphy makes sense.
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Re: 2021 College Basketball / Draft THREAD 

Post#119 » by OGSactownballer » Wed Jul 28, 2021 12:42 am

rpa wrote:Few things I'll say here:

- Steals has generally been a pretty good filter for guys who become good wing defenders and who don't (idea being that steals are about awareness as much as physical attributes and players need that awareness to do well in the team aspect of defense). 2 guys being touted as 3&D players (Moody and Murphy) are pretty bad on steals. Point being: I don't trust Moody as a future 3&D guy. That he's also undersized for a 3 should eliminate him.

- I'm lukewarm on Franz, but I think he's an interesting prospect to say the least. His FT% points to being a good shooter in the NBA and his steal rate is decent--pointing to an OK defender. I don't love the fact that his PER40 numbers (with the exception of assists) are nearly unchanged from his freshman to sophomore year. I don't he's going to be a bust, but his ceiling is somewhere around "OK role player".

Assuming none of the top 6 drops (the usual 5 plus Barnes) my remaining favorite is Ziare. Great BBIQ, great height for the wing, high FT% points to being able to develop an outside shot. Ziaire is a great "of course he made it" candidate this year. History of success combined with an outlier of a year from an off-court perspective. Had last season not been destroyed by COVID I think he goes top 5. Reminds me a lot of Jaylen Brown in that they're both high IQ players who came to non-traditional basketball schools in the bay area and didn't look so great.


Great assessment as always.

And it leads me to something I have been thinking abiut this draft all along.

After the pretty clear top six (somebody will drop and somebody will move up like always) there is a run from 7 - 22 that really starts to be about feel, fits and needs but not a single one of this group doesn’t have some moderate to serious question marks/holes in their game.

I have a sense that this is a great draft to either trade up for a specific target (either 3 for Mobley or 6 for Barnes), or just trade down four to seven spots for some significant additional assets.
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Re: 2021 College Basketball / Draft THREAD 

Post#120 » by rpa » Wed Jul 28, 2021 12:50 am

OGSactownballer wrote:Great assessment as always.

And it leads me to something I have been thinking abiut this draft all along.

After the pretty clear top six (somebody will drop and somebody will move up like always) there is a run from 7 - 22 that really starts to be about feel, fits and needs but not a single one of this group doesn’t have some moderate to serious question marks/holes in their game.

I have a sense that this is a great draft to either trade up for a specific target (either 3 for Mobley or 6 for Barnes), or just trade down four to seven spots for some significant additional assets.


To be honest, I actually think that run starts at the 5th pick. Cade, Mobley, and the Jalens are clearly superior prospects to everyone in this draft. I'd go so far as to say there's an entire empty tier between the 4 of them and everyone else. Even the guys at the top of that next tier (Barnes and Kuminga) are hugely flawed.

I do agree about fit, feel, and needs, though. Had the Kings not picked Haliburton last year I'd be all aboard the Giddey train. Hell, there's part of me that thinks the Kings should pick him and play him as part of a 3-headed monster of ball handlers (bad idea, I know). But since we got Hali (yay) it appears we're more focused on wings. Makes sense--we've really only got 1 capable wing on the roster right now and it's arguably the most broadly valuable position in the game.

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