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The TRADE Thread 2021

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Re: The TRADE Thread 2021 

Post#441 » by simonbampfield » Sat Aug 7, 2021 3:08 am

Where am I going wrong with this current squad? Kind of forget about most of the positions, but the 5 spot. Obviously there is a lot of time to go in the off-season, but let's keep rolling along with roster construction because from here it's largely going to be trades to get us into camp.

Fox/Mitchell/
Hali/Buddy/Davis/Ramsey
Barnes/James
Bagley/Harkless/Metu/Woodard
Holmes/Len/TT/Jones/Queta

There has to be a Bagley/Buddy trade coming. There isn't much behind Bagley though either, obviously that is why we have an interest in Siakam though. As it stands there it is 17 players. I would expect Queta to be in the G League and perhaps Woodard too.

Jones will obviously be waived?
For the bigs it still doesn't make sense to me signing Holmes, signing Len, trading for TT. They aren't going to waive/buy out TT after trading Wright for him. Obviously Len is staying put and Holmes is the starting 5.
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Re: The TRADE Thread 2021 

Post#442 » by OGSactownballer » Sat Aug 7, 2021 9:15 pm

Ramsey, Woodard and Queta are definite for the G league. All need a lot of developmental time with BJax before they are ready. That leaves one open spot but I still see not one but two trades to consolidate coming.
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Re: The TRADE Thread 2021 

Post#443 » by BoogieTime » Mon Aug 9, 2021 7:02 pm

Even Jason Anderson now commenting on our interest in Simmons and Siakman..

I think he's just parroting reports and/or us shopping that Hield/Bagley pupu negative platter

IMO we are interested in Simmons, to some degree. But Siakam is just a no. Dude's inefficient, three ball has left him and his defense has been slipping.
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Re: The TRADE Thread 2021 

Post#444 » by kb02 » Mon Aug 9, 2021 8:43 pm

BoogieTime wrote:Even Jason Anderson now commenting on our interest in Simmons and Siakman..

I think he's just parroting reports and/or us shopping that Hield/Bagley pupu negative platter

IMO we are interested in Simmons, to some degree. But Siakam is just a no. Dude's inefficient, three ball has left him and his defense has been slipping.


I think it's the FO trying to spin against the narrative that they are indecisive, haven't done much, or got played by the LAL.

First it was Carmichael Dave saying the Kings were being very aggressive and now Anderson saying the Kings are interested in both. I'm sure James Ham will be next to come out with something. Followed by Jason Jones.
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Re: The TRADE Thread 2021 

Post#445 » by BoogieTime » Mon Aug 9, 2021 8:48 pm

kb02 wrote:
BoogieTime wrote:Even Jason Anderson now commenting on our interest in Simmons and Siakman..

I think he's just parroting reports and/or us shopping that Hield/Bagley pupu negative platter

IMO we are interested in Simmons, to some degree. But Siakam is just a no. Dude's inefficient, three ball has left him and his defense has been slipping.


I think it's the FO trying to spin against the narrative that they are indecisive, haven't done much, or got played by the LAL.

First it was Carmichael Dave saying the Kings were being very aggressive and now Anderson saying the Kings are interested in both. I'm sure James Ham will be next to come out with something. Followed by Jason Jones.


IMO I think they really are aggressively shopping the Hield/Bagley pupu platter

Its just being considered by local reporters as a credible package, and/or taken by opposing front offices as leverage that Sacramento has interest in their players with the hopeful inference that we are offering our better players

But, I have no doubt McNair is doing all he can to move Buddy and Bagley, for separate reasons

But maybe being "aggressive" like that generates solid media
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Re: The TRADE Thread 2021 

Post#446 » by City of Trees » Tue Aug 10, 2021 4:41 am

Poor Raptors and Sixers fans thinking Fox is on the table. No you're not getting Fox lol.

I highly doubt Haliburton is on the table.

Mitchell could be but I hope he isn't.

James Ham continues to pound the table the Kings package is Bagley, Buddy, and picks.

If I was a betting man I'd side with Siakam staying in Toronto. That leaves Philly and their crap sandwich of a relationship with Simmons. Dude has to be dealt so if I'm Monte I hold the line. Negative chatter around their club will only grow the longer Philly waits.

Also on Simmons, Zach Lowe blasted Daryl Morey about asking for a Harden like return in Simmons because it was only last season Morey offered Simmons plus a gang of picks for Harden, thus setting Simmons value well below Harden

Brooklyn giving up several picks has significant less value than Sacramento giving up several picks.

Philly should take the Kings offer and be done with it. Or just take it so we can have Simmons
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Re: The TRADE Thread 2021 

Post#447 » by BoogieTime » Wed Aug 11, 2021 5:26 am

Read on Twitter


And that was the series that somehow erased the commodity that was Ben Simmons

IMO I think Morey knows Ben's worth, and he wont be attainable. I think they have to attempt to run it back, if they don't get a nice offer. Even if it means Doc Rivers apologizing or stepping down for that stupid comment about not knowing if Ben can be a championship guard. By the same token if they are forced to trade him, and we outbid, and somehow Fox and Haliburton (and assets) are still on this team, which Im not anticipating, I still wouldnt dig the fit between Simmons, Fox, and Haliburton. That would test the adage of can you have too much playmaking lol and spacing with Fox/Simmons/Holmes would be wonky

I appreciate these efforts, but like kb02 said, maybe there is an ulterior motive for these articles. Why would you put out that you are looking for stars to trade for? Does that help your bargaining power?

It will be interesting to see how this roster ends up being balanced between now and the start of camp. Are you still running Buddy out here with Fox/Hali/Mitchell/Davis/now Ramsey on contract looking playable in SL, and little wings. That may be why there is the Siakam talk, but I wonder who else is available? Can you keep Marvin when the community has turned on him?

Setting sights lower, I wonder who is available in the trade market
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Re: The TRADE Thread 2021 

Post#448 » by rpa » Wed Aug 11, 2021 6:12 am

BoogieTime wrote:
Read on Twitter


And that was the series that somehow erased the commodity that was Ben Simmons

IMO I think Morey knows Ben's worth, and he wont be attainable. I think they have to attempt to run it back, if they don't get a nice offer. Even if it means Doc Rivers apologizing or stepping down for that stupid comment about not knowing if Ben can be a championship guard. By the same token if they are forced to trade him, and we outbid, and somehow Fox and Haliburton (and assets) are still on this team, which Im not anticipating, I still wouldnt dig the fit between Simmons, Fox, and Haliburton. That would test the adage of can you have too much playmaking lol


I think the dig against Simmons isn't that he's a bad player--it's that he's a really good player that becomes a liability in the last 2 minutes of a game because:
a) He can't shoot at all (be it jumpers, free throws, whatever)
b) He's far less effective in the half court than in transition (and in the last 2 minutes you won't see any transition play in a close game)

So in the last 2 minutes what do you do? You can't play him off ball because defenders will sag way down. You can put the ball in his hands, but he's not a huge scoring threat--and if he does appear to be gaining an advantage the defense will just foul him.

Don't get me wrong, adding him to the Kings almost certainly makes them better, but I just don't see a package the Kings can offer where the fit maximizes Simmons. Consider:
1) You trade Fox for him straight up. That's great and all, but now you don't have any strong scoring threats. When you need a bucket who exactly do you go to?
2) You trade Hali for him. Even ignoring how value Haliburton is, the problem here is the salary matching. You need shooting around Simmons, but you'd giving up at least one of Hield or Barnes (maybe both) to match salaries. A lineup featuring Fox, Holmes, and Simmons is going to have problems with spacing.
3) You somehow trade Hield/Bagley/picks for him. Great, but now who's your lead ball handler? Whoever it is the other one is going to have to play offball (bad). What about Haliburton? He can get a bunch of touches with Fox and Simmons on the bench, but you're limiting his impact by taking him so far off the ball.
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Re: The TRADE Thread 2021 

Post#449 » by BoogieTime » Wed Aug 11, 2021 6:35 am

rpa wrote:
BoogieTime wrote:
Read on Twitter


And that was the series that somehow erased the commodity that was Ben Simmons

IMO I think Morey knows Ben's worth, and he wont be attainable. I think they have to attempt to run it back, if they don't get a nice offer. Even if it means Doc Rivers apologizing or stepping down for that stupid comment about not knowing if Ben can be a championship guard. By the same token if they are forced to trade him, and we outbid, and somehow Fox and Haliburton (and assets) are still on this team, which Im not anticipating, I still wouldnt dig the fit between Simmons, Fox, and Haliburton. That would test the adage of can you have too much playmaking lol


I think the dig against Simmons isn't that he's a bad player--it's that he's a really good player that becomes a liability in the last 2 minutes of a game because:
a) He can't shoot at all (be it jumpers, free throws, whatever)
b) He's far less effective in the half court than in transition (and in the last 2 minutes you won't see any transition play in a close game)

So in the last 2 minutes what do you do? You can't play him off ball because defenders will sag way down. You can put the ball in his hands, but he's not a huge scoring threat--and if he does appear to be gaining an advantage the defense will just foul him.

Don't get me wrong, adding him to the Kings almost certainly makes them better, but I just don't see a package the Kings can offer where the fit maximizes Simmons. Consider:
1) You trade Fox for him straight up. That's great and all, but now you don't have any strong scoring threats. When you need a bucket who exactly do you go to?
2) You trade Hali for him. Even ignoring how value Haliburton is, the problem here is the salary matching. You need shooting around Simmons, but you'd giving up at least one of Hield or Barnes (maybe both) to match salaries. A lineup featuring Fox, Holmes, and Simmons is going to have problems with spacing.
3) You somehow trade Hield/Bagley/picks for him. Great, but now who's your lead ball handler? Whoever it is the other one is going to have to play offball (bad). What about Haliburton? He can get a bunch of touches with Fox and Simmons on the bench, but you're limiting his impact by taking him so far off the ball.


I think he has been shooting free throws enough to keep defenses honest the last three years (over 61%) right? As for the scoring, you'd be starting Mitchell/Hali/Barnes/Simmons/Holmes, and it would seem that you could possibly be fine by committee. With Richaun's improvement is it feasible they all could be putting up around 15 or more ppg (unless you believe you need a strong offensive option at the point of attack in the half court, which I can respect)?

But you read my mind on the spacing, I added it to the post when you were replying. Fox/Simmons/Holmes spacing would be inappropriate. And you would literally need to mortgage at least 6 years of picks and swaps (swaps with a team that's now substantially better) to test that out by not giving anything of value. And I know a lot of Kings fans feel Buddy/Bagley are value, but I can only tell them what the trade/transactions board would tell them: Buddy is negative currently, and Marvin is neutral, and your paying picks to move them before paying the Simmons price (and I think Buddy is underutilized under Walton and can be a baller elsewhere, but that still doesn't change how the t/t board would answer you). Additionally it would need to be a three team deal, because the Sixers want to compete now, and that third team would need to have a star that they want to dump and rebuild and not want Simmons. I'm not seeing this option.

Additionally I'm a fan of Hali and Mitchell, to the point where I'd think twice about including them in a package which would be needed for Simmons, personally.

I guess that's where I am, lower on Fox than the average Kings fan. I find him talented, but exasperating at the same time. And higher on Simmons than the average Kings fan. And I think Mitchell/Hali can start and become a talented duo possibly as soon as next season. I still respect Fox's talent, and he's on par or better with Lillard offensively at his age, and think he can be one of the better PGs in the west. But, I need consistency and team impact starting next year
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Re: The TRADE Thread 2021 

Post#450 » by Tomjas » Wed Aug 11, 2021 9:22 am

Sixers fan here

Forget about Simmons for a minute

You guys have lots of good prospects

The NUMBER 1 priority for the Kings should be coaching

Nobody is queuing up to play for a guy that LeBron had sacked (and especially not Simmons)

Get the off court staff right and build from there
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Re: The TRADE Thread 2021 

Post#451 » by City of Trees » Wed Aug 11, 2021 2:41 pm

Tomjas wrote:Sixers fan here

Forget about Simmons for a minute

You guys have lots of good prospects

The NUMBER 1 priority for the Kings should be coaching

Nobody is queuing up to play for a guy that LeBron had sacked (and especially not Simmons)

Get the off court staff right and build from there
It appears Luke gets another year. We are trapped.
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Re: The TRADE Thread 2021 

Post#452 » by OGSactownballer » Wed Aug 11, 2021 9:21 pm

Tomjas wrote:Sixers fan here

Forget about Simmons for a minute

You guys have lots of good prospects

The NUMBER 1 priority for the Kings should be coaching

Nobody is queuing up to play for a guy that LeBron had sacked (and especially not Simmons)

Get the off court staff right and build from there


It’s coming.

The team didn’t make Doug Christie an Asst coach in a vacuum. They saw what Monty Williams did in PHX and if ever there was a totally compares me guy to Doug it’s certainly Monty.

My guess is at the slightest flop this year Luke is toast and Doug takes over.
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Re: The TRADE Thread 2021 

Post#453 » by OscarH » Wed Aug 11, 2021 9:55 pm

OGSactownballer wrote:
Tomjas wrote:Sixers fan here

Forget about Simmons for a minute

You guys have lots of good prospects

The NUMBER 1 priority for the Kings should be coaching

Nobody is queuing up to play for a guy that LeBron had sacked (and especially not Simmons)

Get the off court staff right and build from there


It’s coming.

The team didn’t make Doug Christie an Asst coach in a vacuum. They saw what Monty Williams did in PHX and if ever there was a totally compares me guy to Doug it’s certainly Monty.

My guess is at the slightest flop this year Luke is toast and Doug takes over.


Not so fast, everyone said that when Gentry got hired last year too.
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Re: The TRADE Thread 2021 

Post#454 » by rpa » Wed Aug 11, 2021 10:13 pm

Tomjas wrote:Sixers fan here

Forget about Simmons for a minute

You guys have lots of good prospects

The NUMBER 1 priority for the Kings should be coaching

Nobody is queuing up to play for a guy that LeBron had sacked (and especially not Simmons)

Get the off court staff right and build from there


Unfortunately the Kings don't want to pay him $11m to go away.
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Re: The TRADE Thread 2021 

Post#455 » by OGSactownballer » Thu Aug 12, 2021 3:41 am

rpa wrote:
Tomjas wrote:Sixers fan here

Forget about Simmons for a minute

You guys have lots of good prospects

The NUMBER 1 priority for the Kings should be coaching

Nobody is queuing up to play for a guy that LeBron had sacked (and especially not Simmons)

Get the off court staff right and build from there


Unfortunately the Kings don't want to pay him $11m to go away.


If they aren’t at least .500 and sniffing playoffs start the break, they won’t have much choice.
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Re: The TRADE Thread 2021 

Post#456 » by rpa » Thu Aug 12, 2021 3:44 am

OGSactownballer wrote:
rpa wrote:
Tomjas wrote:Sixers fan here

Forget about Simmons for a minute

You guys have lots of good prospects

The NUMBER 1 priority for the Kings should be coaching

Nobody is queuing up to play for a guy that LeBron had sacked (and especially not Simmons)

Get the off court staff right and build from there


Unfortunately the Kings don't want to pay him $11m to go away.


If they aren’t at least .500 and sniffing playoffs start the break, they won’t have much choice.


Sure, but at that point the season's half over and they only owe him 3/4 of that amount--under $10m is palatable, right?
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Re: The TRADE Thread 2021 

Post#457 » by OGSactownballer » Thu Aug 12, 2021 5:17 pm

rpa wrote:
OGSactownballer wrote:
rpa wrote:
Unfortunately the Kings don't want to pay him $11m to go away.


If they aren’t at least .500 and sniffing playoffs start the break, they won’t have much choice.


Sure, but at that point the season's half over and they only owe him 3/4 of that amount--under $10m is palatable, right?



Apparently so.

I’m wondering why the cheap out at this point by Vivek “Mr. big bucks I wanna win”.

Seriously dude! Put up or shut up. If you cannot understand from every source that you f’ed up with Valde and Walton and what is missing here is a completed reset, then sell the team to someone who knows how to be an owner and not interfere with the experts who MANAGE the team.
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Re: The TRADE Thread 2021 

Post#458 » by FarBeyondDriven » Fri Aug 13, 2021 3:44 am

I can't be the only one who likes the roster as is right? Everyone is in a rush to trade young guys who haven't had the opportunity to develop and I don't get it. We have three ball handlers already so I don't understand the infatuation with Simmons who needs the ball in his hands to be effective.
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Re: The TRADE Thread 2021 

Post#459 » by Silver Man » Fri Aug 13, 2021 5:34 pm

FarBeyondDriven wrote:I can't be the only one who likes the roster as is right? Everyone is in a rush to trade young guys who haven't had the opportunity to develop and I don't get it. We have three ball handlers already so I don't understand the infatuation with Simmons who needs the ball in his hands to be effective.


I don't think really anyone besides the front office is in a rush to trade the youth. I think the general consensus is to build around Haliburton, Fox, and now Mitchell (even if we all didnt like the pick).
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Re: The TRADE Thread 2021 

Post#460 » by BoogieTime » Fri Aug 13, 2021 6:44 pm

FarBeyondDriven wrote: We have three ball handlers already so I don't understand the infatuation with Simmons who needs the ball in his hands to be effective.

We wouldnt after the trade.

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