The TRADE Thread 2021

[Topofthekey]

What do you guys think of this?


Kings in: Doug McDermott + Jeremy Lamb + 2RP

Pacers in: Harrison Barnes


Basically a salary dump with some upside for the Kings, while improving the Kings pick this year. Doug is a great bench piece and an expiring contract. He can either be flipped for another asset, or just allowed to expire. Lamb's contract is much shorter and smaller than Barnes', and once he returns (projected in mid to late January) and rehabilitates his value, he too can be flipped another small asset or just kept as a useful backup

Pacers need someone who can slide to the PF position when one of Sabonis or Turner sits, and Barnes checks that box for them. They've also just gotten out of the need to pay Oladipo, so they may be more open to taking on Barnes' contract. Barnes will make a decent starting SF for them until Warren returns

[kb02]

What do you guys think of this?


Kings in: Doug McDermott + Jeremy Lamb + 2RP

Pacers in: Harrison Barnes


Basically a salary dump with some upside for the Kings, while improving the Kings pick this year. Doug is a great bench piece and an expiring contract. He can either be flipped for another asset, or just allowed to expire. Lamb's contract is much shorter and smaller than Barnes', and once he returns (projected in mid to late January) and rehabilitates his value, he too can be flipped another small asset or just kept as a useful backup

Pacers need someone who can slide to the PF position when one of Sabonis or Turner sits, and Barnes checks that box for them. They've also just gotten out of the need to pay Oladipo, so they may be more open to taking on Barnes' contract. Barnes will make a decent starting SF for them until Warren returns

If the only incentive is to dump Barnes, it's an easy no for the Kings. He's playing extremely well this year on both sides of the court and his contract declines. The Kings have a ton of 2RPs, so that doesn't move the needle. Maybe add a first instead of a 2RP and the Kings consider. Something like the following:

McDeromtt + Lamb + 2021 1st (protected top 14; unprotected for 2022) for Barnes + 2021 Lakers 2nd round pick.

[Topofthekey]

What do you guys think of this?


Kings in: Doug McDermott + Jeremy Lamb + 2RP

Pacers in: Harrison Barnes


Basically a salary dump with some upside for the Kings, while improving the Kings pick this year. Doug is a great bench piece and an expiring contract. He can either be flipped for another asset, or just allowed to expire. Lamb's contract is much shorter and smaller than Barnes', and once he returns (projected in mid to late January) and rehabilitates his value, he too can be flipped another small asset or just kept as a useful backup

Pacers need someone who can slide to the PF position when one of Sabonis or Turner sits, and Barnes checks that box for them. They've also just gotten out of the need to pay Oladipo, so they may be more open to taking on Barnes' contract. Barnes will make a decent starting SF for them until Warren returns

If the only incentive is to dump Barnes, it's an easy no for the Kings. He's playing extremely well this year on both sides of the court and his contract declines. The Kings have a ton of 2RPs, so that doesn't move the needle. Maybe add a first instead of a 2RP and the Kings consider. Something like the following:

McDeromtt + Lamb + 2021 1st (protected top 14; unprotected for 2022) for Barnes + 2021 Lakers 2nd round pick.

I have Barnes ranging from neutral to slight negative trade value, depending on the team acquiring him

I thought that some small assets might be enough for him, but I can see why Kings would rather just keep him if the returns aren't super attractive

[blind prophet]

What do you guys think of this?


Kings in: Doug McDermott + Jeremy Lamb + 2RP

Pacers in: Harrison Barnes


Basically a salary dump with some upside for the Kings, while improving the Kings pick this year. Doug is a great bench piece and an expiring contract. He can either be flipped for another asset, or just allowed to expire. Lamb's contract is much shorter and smaller than Barnes', and once he returns (projected in mid to late January) and rehabilitates his value, he too can be flipped another small asset or just kept as a useful backup

Pacers need someone who can slide to the PF position when one of Sabonis or Turner sits, and Barnes checks that box for them. They've also just gotten out of the need to pay Oladipo, so they may be more open to taking on Barnes' contract. Barnes will make a decent starting SF for them until Warren returns

If the only incentive is to dump Barnes, it's an easy no for the Kings. He's playing extremely well this year on both sides of the court and his contract declines. The Kings have a ton of 2RPs, so that doesn't move the needle. Maybe add a first instead of a 2RP and the Kings consider. Something like the following:

McDeromtt + Lamb + 2021 1st (protected top 14; unprotected for 2022) for Barnes + 2021 Lakers 2nd round pick.

I have Barnes ranging from neutral to slight negative trade value, depending on the team acquiring him

I thought that some small assets might be enough for him, but I can see why Kings would rather just keep him if the returns aren't super attractive

I'm normally fair I believe with our contracts and being positive or neg value etc as far as what most teams will see. Been at it for a long time, see Jarl Thompandry etc.

But you may not see it now, maybe many don't outside the Kings fans.

But I'm fine with his salary right now. Don't want to dump it at all. Nice thing is with him able to play 3 or 4, and still not old yet, we can draft potentially bpa at the 3 or 4 and be happy with Barnes for awhile.

If you called me after the bubble but before the season started I'd of taken this deal.

[BoogieTime]

If the only incentive is to dump Barnes, it's an easy no for the Kings. He's playing extremely well this year on both sides of the court and his contract declines. The Kings have a ton of 2RPs, so that doesn't move the needle. Maybe add a first instead of a 2RP and the Kings consider. Something like the following:

McDeromtt + Lamb + 2021 1st (protected top 14; unprotected for 2022) for Barnes + 2021 Lakers 2nd round pick.

I have Barnes ranging from neutral to slight negative trade value, depending on the team acquiring him

I thought that some small assets might be enough for him, but I can see why Kings would rather just keep him if the returns aren't super attractive

I'm normally fair I believe with our contracts and being positive or neg value etc as far as what most teams will see. Been at it for a long time, see Jarl Thompandry etc.

But you may not see it now, maybe many don't outside the Kings fans.

But I'm fine with his salary right now. Don't want to dump it at all. Nice thing is with him able to play 3 or 4, and still not old yet, we can draft potentially bpa at the 3 or 4 and be happy with Barnes for awhile.

If you called me after the bubble but before the season started I'd of taken this deal.

I think OP was using my reasoning, which McNair may use in real life, to liquidate Barnes if need be.

If moved now, after a hot start, Barnes is probably a hair above positive. He may or may not return to his mean

I understand if some Kings fans would want more though as he’s been a force

[kb02]

What do you guys think of this?


Kings in: Doug McDermott + Jeremy Lamb + 2RP

Pacers in: Harrison Barnes


Basically a salary dump with some upside for the Kings, while improving the Kings pick this year. Doug is a great bench piece and an expiring contract. He can either be flipped for another asset, or just allowed to expire. Lamb's contract is much shorter and smaller than Barnes', and once he returns (projected in mid to late January) and rehabilitates his value, he too can be flipped another small asset or just kept as a useful backup

Pacers need someone who can slide to the PF position when one of Sabonis or Turner sits, and Barnes checks that box for them. They've also just gotten out of the need to pay Oladipo, so they may be more open to taking on Barnes' contract. Barnes will make a decent starting SF for them until Warren returns

If the only incentive is to dump Barnes, it's an easy no for the Kings. He's playing extremely well this year on both sides of the court and his contract declines. The Kings have a ton of 2RPs, so that doesn't move the needle. Maybe add a first instead of a 2RP and the Kings consider. Something like the following:

McDeromtt + Lamb + 2021 1st (protected top 14; unprotected for 2022) for Barnes + 2021 Lakers 2nd round pick.

I have Barnes ranging from neutral to slight negative trade value, depending on the team acquiring him

I thought that some small assets might be enough for him, but I can see why Kings would rather just keep him if the returns aren't super attractive

Barnes is the only player on the team that can legitimately guard the 6'7 to 6'9 wings in the league. Losing him would hurt, so he has a lot of value for that alone. Plus his play, on both sides the ball, and as documented here, has been very good this year: https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/barneha02.html

Barnes has basically played on par with Tobias Harris, who is making $20m or so more.

This isn't a specific comment directed at you (general, in nature), but I always scratch my head when folks offer a trade package for a player, get counter offerred, and then say the target player (Barnes, in this case) has neutral to negative value. If he has neutral or negative value, why offer a trade for him? By the simple fact that trades are being offerred for him (See Buddy in the T&T thread), he has positive value. Why would the Kings off load him for sideways or negative value?

[BoogieTime]

If the only incentive is to dump Barnes, it's an easy no for the Kings. He's playing extremely well this year on both sides of the court and his contract declines. The Kings have a ton of 2RPs, so that doesn't move the needle. Maybe add a first instead of a 2RP and the Kings consider. Something like the following:

McDeromtt + Lamb + 2021 1st (protected top 14; unprotected for 2022) for Barnes + 2021 Lakers 2nd round pick.

I have Barnes ranging from neutral to slight negative trade value, depending on the team acquiring him

I thought that some small assets might be enough for him, but I can see why Kings would rather just keep him if the returns aren't super attractive

Why would the Kings off load him for sideways or negative value?

Again,

Barnes as a variable could be +3 wins. Extrapolated over the season he could be the difference in many draft slots in a good draft this and possibly next year

Whether or not that’s positive is up to interpretation, but it could be argued he’s not on Fox/Hali’s timeline and it’s good to see what we have in Woodard

His value I agree is arguable

[codydaze]

I have Barnes ranging from neutral to slight negative trade value, depending on the team acquiring him

I thought that some small assets might be enough for him, but I can see why Kings would rather just keep him if the returns aren't super attractive

Why would the Kings off load him for sideways or negative value?

Again,

Barnes as a variable could be +3 wins. Extrapolated over the season he could be the difference in many draft slots in a good draft this and possibly next year

Whether or not that’s positive is up to interpretation, but it could be argued he’s not on Fox/Hali’s timeline and it’s good to see what we have in Woodard

His value I agree is arguable

I think the changes to the lottery system make the old way of tanking for better draft position a little less valuable. Yes, bottoming out still obviously gives you the most ping pong balls but the 6 and 7 team jumped into the top four last year so it's more of a crapshoot than it's been in the past.

[Topofthekey]

If the only incentive is to dump Barnes, it's an easy no for the Kings. He's playing extremely well this year on both sides of the court and his contract declines. The Kings have a ton of 2RPs, so that doesn't move the needle. Maybe add a first instead of a 2RP and the Kings consider. Something like the following:

McDeromtt + Lamb + 2021 1st (protected top 14; unprotected for 2022) for Barnes + 2021 Lakers 2nd round pick.

I have Barnes ranging from neutral to slight negative trade value, depending on the team acquiring him

I thought that some small assets might be enough for him, but I can see why Kings would rather just keep him if the returns aren't super attractive

Barnes is the only player on the team that can legitimately guard the 6'7 to 6'9 wings in the league. Losing him would hurt, so he has a lot of value for that alone. Plus his play, on both sides the ball, and as documented here, has been very good this year: https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/barneha02.html

Barnes has basically played on par with Tobias Harris, who is making $20m or so more.

This isn't a specific comment directed at you (general, in nature), but I always scratch my head when folks offer a trade package for a player, get counter offerred, and then say the target player (Barnes, in this case) has neutral to negative value. If he has neutral or negative value, why offer a trade for him? By the simple fact that trades are being offerred for him (See Buddy in the T&T thread), he has positive value. Why would the Kings off load him for sideways or negative value?

I understand what you're saying

The reason why I have him at neutral value for Pacers is because Pacers do have the need for a secondary PF, or someone who can slide in to that role when one of Turner or Sabonis sits, and Barnes checks that box

(Normally Warren would be that guy, but unfortunately he's out at the moment)

Paying someone about $20m just to be a backup PF is far from ideal, but Barnes is has been playing well enough to be a starter at SF, and essentially replace what Pacers lost in Warren, so that justifies his contract somewhat

But what do Pacers do with both Barnes and Warren once Warren returns though

There's going to be a glut, and one of them might need to be moved again. With Warren making half of what Barnes makes, it'll probably be Barnes being moved, so he's essentially a one year rental, unless Pacers are fine with paying someone $20m to come off the bench (not sure whether Barnes himself would accept a bench role too)

(Of course, there's also the possibility that Barnes plays so we'll that he outplays Warren for the starting job, but that doesn't sound very likely)

Normally, after considering all this, the logical conclusion is that Pacers shouldn't trade for Barnes

But I felt if the asking price isn't very high, then it may still be worth it

That was the whole thought process behind it, the reason I wondered whether some small assets would be enough

As I said I do understand if the Kings don't feel the need to move Barnes if the returns aren't sufficiently attractive

[BoogieTime]

Why would the Kings off load him for sideways or negative value?

Again,

Barnes as a variable could be +3 wins. Extrapolated over the season he could be the difference in many draft slots in a good draft this and possibly next year

Whether or not that’s positive is up to interpretation, but it could be argued he’s not on Fox/Hali’s timeline and it’s good to see what we have in Woodard

His value I agree is arguable

I think the changes to the lottery system make the old way of tanking for better draft position a little less valuable. Yes, bottoming out still obviously gives you the most ping pong balls but the 6 and 7 team jumped into the top four last year so it's more of a crapshoot than it's been in the past.

Yes, it’s not as automatic in previous years, still the odds are the odds.

It may be a philosophical thing, but I don’t like the notion of sitting in the middle. I’m kind of a rebuild or compete kind in of guy

Possibly there is still the notion that as a core this team can seriously compete for the playoffs this year, and it would hurt the chemistry to wave in the towel of a season. Games like tonight against the Clippers though I hope push McNair towards my thinking, that the team as constructed is the 9-13th draft odds, and not really where you want to be

[jmr07019]

Celtics fan here. A lot of us want Barnes in Boston. What about

Romeo Langford or Aaron Nesmith and Boston’s 2021 1st

We have a large TPE from Hayward so we don’t need to match salary. You guys would get a decent sized TPE of your own after the trade. Romeo and Aaron were both late lotto picks who haven’t shown much yet but are still under team control for a while. Perhaps I’m biased but it would seem that’s a much better deal than the Pacers one proposed.

[nolang1]

Celtics fan here. A lot of us want Barnes in Boston. What about

Romeo Langford or Aaron Nesmith and Boston’s 2021 1st

We have a large TPE from Hayward so we don’t need to match salary. You guys would get a decent sized TPE of your own after the trade. Romeo and Aaron were both late lotto picks who haven’t shown much yet but are still under team control for a while. Perhaps I’m biased but it would seem that’s a much better deal than the Pacers one proposed.

Yeah pretty much any Kings fan would jump on Nesmith and a 1st.

[City of Trees]

Celtics fan here. A lot of us want Barnes in Boston. What about

Romeo Langford or Aaron Nesmith and Boston’s 2021 1st

We have a large TPE from Hayward so we don’t need to match salary. You guys would get a decent sized TPE of your own after the trade. Romeo and Aaron were both late lotto picks who haven’t shown much yet but are still under team control for a while. Perhaps I’m biased but it would seem that’s a much better deal than the Pacers one proposed.

Yeah pretty much any Kings fan would jump on Nesmith and a 1st.

Agreed.

[JMAC3]

Celtics fan here. A lot of us want Barnes in Boston. What about

Romeo Langford or Aaron Nesmith and Boston’s 2021 1st

We have a large TPE from Hayward so we don’t need to match salary. You guys would get a decent sized TPE of your own after the trade. Romeo and Aaron were both late lotto picks who haven’t shown much yet but are still under team control for a while. Perhaps I’m biased but it would seem that’s a much better deal than the Pacers one proposed.

The TPE can't be used with another player. It would have to be TPE and 1st or Langford/Nesmith with a salary filler.

[kb02]

Again,

Barnes as a variable could be +3 wins. Extrapolated over the season he could be the difference in many draft slots in a good draft this and possibly next year

Whether or not that’s positive is up to interpretation, but it could be argued he’s not on Fox/Hali’s timeline and it’s good to see what we have in Woodard

His value I agree is arguable

I think the changes to the lottery system make the old way of tanking for better draft position a little less valuable. Yes, bottoming out still obviously gives you the most ping pong balls but the 6 and 7 team jumped into the top four last year so it's more of a crapshoot than it's been in the past.

Yes, it’s not as automatic in previous years, still the odds are the odds.

It may be a philosophical thing, but I don’t like the notion of sitting in the middle. I’m kind of a rebuild or compete kind in of guy

Possibly there is still the notion that as a core this team can seriously compete for the playoffs this year, and it would hurt the chemistry to wave in the towel of a season. Games like tonight against the Clippers though I hope push McNair towards my thinking, that the team as constructed is the 9-13th draft odds, and not really where you want to be

So I'm not a fan of treadmilling either. I'd rather the Kings tank and they are, but not this current type of sucking. Walton needs to go, the old vets need to be released and/or traded. The sooner Buddy is gone, the better.

But with respect to Barnes, I just don't think a sideways move is the right move. Mcdermott (plus Lamb eventually) likely makes the Kings slightly worse, but not significantly worse. While the Kings give up a player, who is producing more than fair value for his contract, is still in his prime, is arguably better off the court than on it, plays the most important position in the league, and has a contract that declines. Translation: I think the Kings can get more for him than a package that would be, at best, rated as neutral value.

[kb02]

Celtics fan here. A lot of us want Barnes in Boston. What about

Romeo Langford or Aaron Nesmith and Boston’s 2021 1st

We have a large TPE from Hayward so we don’t need to match salary. You guys would get a decent sized TPE of your own after the trade. Romeo and Aaron were both late lotto picks who haven’t shown much yet but are still under team control for a while. Perhaps I’m biased but it would seem that’s a much better deal than the Pacers one proposed.

Done for Nesmith and a 1st. Though, to be honest, I was higher on Nesmith before the season. He looks rather pedestrian to me right now.

I've watched a handful of Boston's games. Why is Teague playing at all? He was horrible yesterday and Pritchard is much better than him in all aspects of the game. Brown's shooting has turned elite and Tatum is pretty much unstoppable on offense. Those two are cornerstones.

[jmr07019]

Celtics fan here. A lot of us want Barnes in Boston. What about

Romeo Langford or Aaron Nesmith and Boston’s 2021 1st

We have a large TPE from Hayward so we don’t need to match salary. You guys would get a decent sized TPE of your own after the trade. Romeo and Aaron were both late lotto picks who haven’t shown much yet but are still under team control for a while. Perhaps I’m biased but it would seem that’s a much better deal than the Pacers one proposed.

Done for Nesmith and a 1st. Though, to be honest, I was higher on Nesmith before the season. He looks rather pedestrian to me right now.

I've watched a handful of Boston's games. Why is Teague playing at all? He was horrible yesterday and Pritchard is much better than him in all aspects of the game. Brown's shooting has turned elite and Tatum is pretty much unstoppable on offense. Those two are cornerstones.

I missed yesterdays game but every Boston fan has Pritchard above Teague except apparently Brad. I agree Nesmith has been disappointing to start the season but Brad needs to play the kid every game for better or for worse. Gotta see what he's got if it costs us a game or two whatever we will make the playoffs regardless.

[cl2117]

What about Whiteside? Doesn't feel like he has a chance at significant minutes with Holmes and Bagley in front of him.

Would you let him go for 2nds? Or as a throw in to a deal with Barnes?

[donkeylips]

yes for two 2nds

[cl2117]

yes for two 2nds

Sold.

SAC: Nesmith, 2nds, 20m TPE
BOS: Barnes, Whiteside

Feels like a win/win.