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Ben Simmons as a 4/5 with Fox and Haliburton?

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Re: Ben Simmons as a 4/5 with Fox and Haliburton? 

Post#61 » by codydaze » Tue Jul 20, 2021 3:40 pm

PhillyNj wrote:
codydaze wrote:
Lovetron Joe wrote:Appear to be Buddy, Haliburton, Bagley, 9th pick for Ben, 28th. Money works. Sixers route Hield to Toronto for Lowry (S&T). Money works all around.

Kings keep Fox.


Yeah there's no chance Haliburton is part of that deal. If that's what Philly demands then the deal falls through. I'm not a fan of putting Simmons next to Fox and Hali anyway so I'd be fine with it.

Seriously the kings haven’t made the playoffs in 15 years and a rookie is off the table..
I’d rethink that.


A rookie that makes our team better on a cheaper and controlled contract for the next 7-8 years. Fox and Hali fit like a glove together in the backcourt and I hate the idea of Fox and Simmons together so, no, I would not trade Haliburton for Simmons. My offer is Buddy, Bagley plus picks and that's the extent of it.
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Re: Ben Simmons as a 4/5 with Fox and Haliburton? 

Post#62 » by BoogieTime » Tue Jul 20, 2021 11:42 pm

According to the latest report we, the heat/sixers/rockets/knicks are the hottest on Lillard's trail

Since it makes no timeline sense to give up major pieces for a 32 year old Dame who wants to play for a winner, Id have to think we as well as maybe the Rockets are in this as third team trade partners

I think this may be another link to being on Simmons trail; wanting to facilitate him being traded for Lillard should Portland not want Simmons
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Re: Ben Simmons as a 4/5 with Fox and Haliburton? 

Post#63 » by City of Trees » Wed Jul 21, 2021 5:41 am

BoogieTime wrote:According to the latest report we, the heat/sixers/rockets/knicks are the hottest on Lillard's trail

Since it makes no timeline sense to give up major pieces for a 32 year old Dame who wants to play for a winner, Id have to think we as well as maybe the Rockets are in this as third team trade partners

I think this may be another link to being on Simmons trail; wanting to facilitate him being traded for Lillard should Portland not want Simmons
Correction: Dame turned 31 years old just five days ago.
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Re: Ben Simmons as a 4/5 with Fox and Haliburton? 

Post#64 » by BoogieTime » Fri Jul 23, 2021 8:42 pm

According to Sixers beat writer Kyle Neubeck


"Internally, team sources view a lot of the reported offers floated around the league as transparent attempts to lower Simmons' trade value below where it actually is. The Sixers are uninterested in packages returning multiple role players and picks in exchange for Simmons, according to a source familiar with the situation. As one specific example, a source told PhillyVoice the Sixers would not even entertain a discussion with the Sacramento Kings save for the inclusion of guard De'Aaron Fox in a potential deal, which they view simply as a starting point for talks. "



As I said, Ben is a sizable talent and no one is getting him for spare parts. He will remain in Philly if that is the case

While this paragraph is likely an attempt to overemphasize the Sixers position, it does reflect that the deal would likely be Fox or Hali (assets with Hali) if Simmons dawns Kings purple.

It also IMO signifies our interest in Simmons. That we are being called out as a specific source in the talks.

It could be two teams dancing around trying to find a middle ground that could result in Simmons/Fox, or it could not be. At this minute we can take Monte's word that Fox is highly unlikely, but then he'd say that anyways to maintain strength in negotiations and not ruffle Fox's feathers by puclicly including him in deals.

I think, at this juncture, they are even in terms of value, but I like Simmons talent. Most likely the King wont offer Fox.
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Re: Ben Simmons as a 4/5 with Fox and Haliburton? 

Post#65 » by SactoKingsFan » Mon Jul 26, 2021 1:17 am

They shouldn't offer Fox. He's developed/ improved quite a bit even without being in a great situation. Simmons has all the physical gifts but doesn't seem to have any confidence in his shooting. That's a pretty big deal. Fox has no confidence issue and actually wants to be the franchise cornerstone for the Kings.

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Re: Ben Simmons as a 4/5 with Fox and Haliburton? 

Post#66 » by OGSactownballer » Wed Jul 28, 2021 12:31 am

I still maintain that it’s mostly bluff and bluster by a Philly.

They really pissed Simmons off - especially since he basically carried the team every time Joel took a sabbatical for a hangnail in his usual and customary regular season style.

Philly is not getting an all star in return. A potential one maybe (not Fox who would be automatic in the east and is just jammed behind guys in the West) but a tier down slightly younger guy. Something like Wiseman with picks is more realistic to this type of movement.

Wall/Westbrook was the first technically straight up deal like that I’ve seen and it really wasn’t because Wall was a huge question mark risk coming off two years of career threatening injury.

It just doesn’t happen and especially when your star is burned and devalued this much.
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Re: Ben Simmons as a 4/5 with Fox and Haliburton? 

Post#67 » by rpa » Wed Jul 28, 2021 12:56 am

OGSactownballer wrote:Wall/Westbrook was the first technically straight up deal like that I’ve seen


I think this is the part that can't be stressed enough.

You never see "star for star" trades. You see "star for picks/young players" or "role player for role player" (for fit purposes). Philly (or maybe just their fans) seem to think they can take Simmons and either make a lateral-ish trade (Fox) or add a few just OK assets and upgrade him to a superstar (Dame), but...
- The Kings are more than happy with Fox and have no incentive to swap him for Simmons
- If the Blazers trade Dame they're in rebuild mode whether they like it or not--and Ben Simmons isn't the asset you want for rebuilding.

IMO Philly's best shot is to trade Simmons for a rebuilding-ish package of young players and picks and then try to combine that with their existing OK assets when a superstar does come available. For example, Simmons to the Warriors for 7/14/Wiseman and then hope Beal or Dame become available mid-season. Then take whoever you drafted at 7/14 along with Wiseman, some future picks, and whatever else you can spare and make a Godfather offer.
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Re: Ben Simmons as a 4/5 with Fox and Haliburton? 

Post#68 » by OGSactownballer » Wed Jul 28, 2021 8:33 pm

rpa wrote:
OGSactownballer wrote:Wall/Westbrook was the first technically straight up deal like that I’ve seen


I think this is the part that can't be stressed enough.

You never see "star for star" trades. You see "star for picks/young players" or "role player for role player" (for fit purposes). Philly (or maybe just their fans) seem to think they can take Simmons and either make a lateral-ish trade (Fox) or add a few just OK assets and upgrade him to a superstar (Dame), but...
- The Kings are more than happy with Fox and have no incentive to swap him for Simmons
- If the Blazers trade Dame they're in rebuild mode whether they like it or not--and Ben Simmons isn't the asset you want for rebuilding.

IMO Philly's best shot is to trade Simmons for a rebuilding-ish package of young players and picks and then try to combine that with their existing OK assets when a superstar does come available. For example, Simmons to the Warriors for 7/14/Wiseman and then hope Beal or Dame become available mid-season. Then take whoever you drafted at 7/14 along with Wiseman, some future picks, and whatever else you can spare and make a Godfather offer.


You get it.

I seriously challenge anyone to come up with any other “star for star” straight up trade where both guys were actually at full value prime of their career.
It just doesn’t happen. And realistically if Philly is choosing Joel over Ben then the thing that Morey has to do is find the pieces that fit around Joel and allow him to recognize his ability to either carry them to a title (like Giannis just did for MIL) or fail trying in the Finals which is close enough for HOF lock.

What comes back in those deals doesn’t always look all shiny but that’s because it’s the working pieces of a title contender.

Their problem is that they also way overpaid Harris in a light FA year and now that is coming around. He is not an all star or a viable #2 like Middleton. They need to get off that deal too.
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Re: Ben Simmons as a 4/5 with Fox and Haliburton? 

Post#69 » by rpa » Wed Jul 28, 2021 9:12 pm

OGSactownballer wrote:Their problem is that they also way overpaid Harris in a light FA year and now that is coming around. He is not an all star or a viable #2 like Middleton. They need to get off that deal too.


Yeah, IMO Harris is the core problem there on a bunch of levels. The two key ones being fit (not a true floor spacer) and cost (nearly $40m which could be better used on perimeter players).

Simmons' FT% and ability to be in there in crunch time is definitely an issue, but if you replace Tobias with a competent perimeter player (eg Lowry) they're a much better team.
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Re: Ben Simmons as a 4/5 with Fox and Haliburton? 

Post#70 » by OGSactownballer » Wed Jul 28, 2021 10:45 pm

rpa wrote:
OGSactownballer wrote:Their problem is that they also way overpaid Harris in a light FA year and now that is coming around. He is not an all star or a viable #2 like Middleton. They need to get off that deal too.


Yeah, IMO Harris is the core problem there on a bunch of levels. The two key ones being fit (not a true floor spacer) and cost (nearly $40m which could be better used on perimeter players).

Simmons' FT% and ability to be in there in crunch time is definitely an issue, but if you replace Tobias with a competent perimeter player (eg Lowry) they're a much better team.


I said this when they signed him to that ridiculous deal.

He is not a true all star, rather a very good number 4/5 starter - just like Barnes.

He is absolutely an NBA starter in a good team.

But $40 million salaries are for guys like Chris Paul if you want to be able to move them. He is literally unmovable to any team that wants to really complete - unless you are talking where Houston/OKC are now (base of rebuild) and those guys already have more picks than they can ever use based on roster spaces.

I am just so very grateful that we backed off (remember there was talk of interest and throwing a max at him) and stayed clear of that.
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Re: Ben Simmons as a 4/5 with Fox and Haliburton? 

Post#71 » by BoogieTime » Thu Jul 29, 2021 9:44 pm

Given the deals Morey is publically offering, I’ll take him at his reported word that he wanted Fox to “start” with.

No meaningful talks with that position
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Re: Ben Simmons as a 4/5 with Fox and Haliburton? 

Post#72 » by KingFox » Thu Aug 5, 2021 12:13 pm

Trading Fox would be nuts when Fox is literally better than him already. No!
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Re: Ben Simmons as a 4/5 with Fox and Haliburton? 

Post#73 » by KingFox » Thu Aug 5, 2021 12:14 pm

I'll take a fearless player like Fox over Simmons any day. You think we "choked" big moments in the past? At least Peja and the old gang actually took the shots. Watching Simmons just stand there while we play 4 on 5 doesn't sound very exciting to me
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Re: Ben Simmons as a 4/5 with Fox and Haliburton? 

Post#74 » by NotMyKawhi » Thu Aug 5, 2021 4:38 pm

Pascal is better for you than Simmons imo
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Re: Ben Simmons as a 4/5 with Fox and Haliburton? 

Post#75 » by PhillyNj » Mon Aug 9, 2021 12:12 am

NotMyKawhi wrote:Pascal is better for you than Simmons imo

Pascal would be cheaper to acquire, but Simmons is a much better player.
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Re: Ben Simmons as a 4/5 with Fox and Haliburton? 

Post#76 » by NotMyKawhi » Mon Aug 9, 2021 5:09 am

PhillyNj wrote:
NotMyKawhi wrote:Pascal is better for you than Simmons imo

Pascal would be cheaper to acquire, but Simmons is a much better player.



look at the guy w philly in his name coming in and saying this lol

Morey is that you. Lemme guess? Lowry, Pascal FVV, OG, 4 and multiple future 1st for Simmons?
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Re: Ben Simmons as a 4/5 with Fox and Haliburton? 

Post#77 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Wed Aug 25, 2021 9:32 pm

RipPizzaGuy wrote:
kb02 wrote:
sackings916 wrote:Thoughts? We can probably put together a package for him. Does Fox/Haliburton in the backcourt with Simmons and 2 shooters work?


Think it would take Fox, which I'm okay with. Fox for Simmons + 28. Then let Hali be the point guard. Use #9 on BPA (hopefully a big wing with skills--Jalen Johnson?) and #28/#39 on someone like Ayo Donsumu, Herb Jones, Jared Butler, and/or Tre Mann. Kings would be in the play offs next year.



No shot am I moving Fox for Simmons. Not even in the discussion.
I have no idea why realgm brought me here on this date to this particular post. As of today I would rate Simmons higher
After the Wizards GM really went and did it by having an imaginative, strong, draft day. I totally feel this as well;

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