kb02 wrote: SmellingColors wrote:
Simmons is more talented than Fox and has a higher upside. Harder to find Simmons athletic profile than Fox’s. Simmons warts on the biggest stage is depressing his value.
Fox’s scoring is a product of his pace, but he’s inefficient offensively and plays zero defense at the pace that he sets. And for all of his physical gifts, he doesn’t make others better at a rate that you’d expect. It is part average passing skills and part mindset.
Every team that played the Kings last year, they had their best offensive games. At a minimum, 20% (1/5 players on the floor) of that falls on Fox though i say much more. The game that he sets, it hasnt worked and it won’t until he slows his game down. Itll happen in three years, but id trade him for Simmons and build the team around Hali ansd Simmons. I think Hali will be the better play in two years. He’s the only untouchable on the Kings.
It's honestly feels like you didn't watch Fox much last year. Yeah he's fast, but he's become incredibly dynamic with how he moves. He's not just sprinting the whole game. He's not just a fast break scorer. He's a legit weapon in the half court, scores nearly at will at the rim and has a really good floater/mid range game. He was below average from 3 and shot badly from the line, but if he can start hitting the 3 at a more efficient clip and improve his FT%, he will be a legit 3-level scorer. Something that I think is definitely possible given his improvement every year.
Hali is going to be a great NBA player, but I see Fox/Hali as more complimentary pieces than needing one or the other. Fox is a go-to scorer, Hali is more of a glue guy. You need both.
As for defense, he needs to lock in more on that end, he takes a lot of possessions off. But when he's locked in he can be really pesky. He's shown flashes. He's not Jrue Holiday, but he's not DLo either. The Kings were the worst defense in the NBA last year. Everyone deserves some blame for that, Fox included, but to say that it can't work with Fox for that reason is disingenuous imo.
I tortured myself last year watching probably 50 Kings games, so your feeling is off. Notice how everything you said about Fox was his scoring ability and notice how I didn’t mention that at all in my post? We’re watching different things. And, yea, no player sprints all game. But the way he plays, the pace, he needs specific types if dudes to play with him. He needs to slow his game down, become more efficient offensively and play defense the way he’s capable of.
I would trade him for Simmons. Now, if we can get Simmons without trading Fox or Hali, that would be ideal. I would even give up 3 firsts for Simmons since two of those firsts (plus #9) would be picks in the 20s.
You said his scoring is a product of pace and that he's inefficient so I talked about his half-court scoring ability...? Not sure how those aren't related.
Fox is definitely among the best transition players, but in the half court he's improved a ton since his rookie year in using change of pace and getting to different go-to moves to get to the rim, to a floater, mid range shot, or to set up others that have nothing to do with playing quickly.
Ironically, Simmons is known for being great in transition, but is nearly anemic in the half-court. And yet Fox averages more points in transition a game, has a lower turnover percentage in transition, and averages more PPP in transition. So really Ben's only benefit for the Kings is his defense, which he is obviously great at, but I don't buy that that's enough.
Obviously Fox needs specific players around him to maximize his abilities (everybody does), but I'd argue the guy that couldn't make it work with an MVP finalist, couldn't stay on the court in a pivotal playoff series due to his weaknesses, hasn't significantly improved in any specific area besides maybe defense since entering the league, may be shooting with the wrong hand, and may have been playing the wrong position this whole time...needs a far more specific set of players around him than Fox.
This team needs talent so I'd gamble on Simmons, but not by giving up Fox.