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Draft Thread - Kings move up to #4

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Who to Draft? or Trade the Pick

Trade the Pick
22
35%
Draft Murray
15
24%
Draft Ivey
11
18%
Draft Sharpe
14
23%
 
Total votes: 62

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Re: Draft Thread - Kings move up to #4 

Post#21 » by LightTheBeam » Wed May 18, 2022 4:08 am

SAKURABA216 wrote:Pistons fan here that has been living in the Bay for a while now. I would love to trade Jerami Grant to you guys for a package of Holmes and #4. I've seen proposals that included Davion as well but that seems a tad greedy lol. You guys would get your "Big 3" and we could draft Ivey and Sharpe or Keegan Murray.
Maybe something like

4 + Holmes + Holiday + 37

For

Grant + 5

But no way in hell am I trading #4 for Grant. Hes not that guy.

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Re: Draft Thread - Kings move up to #4 

Post#22 » by City of Trees » Wed May 18, 2022 4:21 am

RipPizzaGuy wrote:
SAKURABA216 wrote:Pistons fan here that has been living in the Bay for a while now. I would love to trade Jerami Grant to you guys for a package of Holmes and #4. I've seen proposals that included Davion as well but that seems a tad greedy lol. You guys would get your "Big 3" and we could draft Ivey and Sharpe or Keegan Murray.
Maybe something like

4 + Holmes + Holiday + 37

For

Grant + 5

But no way in hell am I trading #4 for Grant. Hes not that guy.

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I just don't want Grant. Don't want to pay him, and I don't want to give up assets on a rental (which is what I'd want if they did trade for him)
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Re: Draft Thread - Kings move up to #4 

Post#23 » by City of Trees » Wed May 18, 2022 4:23 am

codydaze wrote:
BobbyJackson wrote:i want ivey. just think taking best player available is the only move at 4, and i have ivey as the 3rd best player in this draft.


I'm not as high on Ivey, especially his fit with our roster. High usage and not a natural playmaker seems like the wrong move for us and I don't believe in his jumper either. I would much rather take the upside of Shaedon. He's got a silky jumpshot and is an explosive athlete, I think he would fit in great with Fox and Sabonis.
See, this is why Monte and his team need to explore moving Fox. It's worth it. If Ivey or whoever checks boxes Fox doesn't then you look to the market to see what Fox can bring back.

#4 can lead to a huge shift in this roster and I'm here for it.
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Re: Draft Thread - Kings move up to #4 

Post#24 » by SAKURABA216 » Wed May 18, 2022 4:23 am

RipPizzaGuy wrote:
SAKURABA216 wrote:Pistons fan here that has been living in the Bay for a while now. I would love to trade Jerami Grant to you guys for a package of Holmes and #4. I've seen proposals that included Davion as well but that seems a tad greedy lol. You guys would get your "Big 3" and we could draft Ivey and Sharpe or Keegan Murray.
Maybe something like

4 + Holmes + Holiday + 37

For

Grant + 5

But no way in hell am I trading #4 for Grant. Hes not that guy.

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Lol my rationale for the trade was that it would be worth moving up to #4 to get Ivey, but he might be there anyways. I think you are severely undervaluing Grant, but I think he is worth way more than moving up just one spot from 4 to 5.
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Re: Draft Thread - Kings move up to #4 

Post#25 » by LightTheBeam » Wed May 18, 2022 4:38 am

SAKURABA216 wrote:
RipPizzaGuy wrote:
SAKURABA216 wrote:Pistons fan here that has been living in the Bay for a while now. I would love to trade Jerami Grant to you guys for a package of Holmes and #4. I've seen proposals that included Davion as well but that seems a tad greedy lol. You guys would get your "Big 3" and we could draft Ivey and Sharpe or Keegan Murray.
Maybe something like

4 + Holmes + Holiday + 37

For

Grant + 5

But no way in hell am I trading #4 for Grant. Hes not that guy.

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Lol my rationale for the trade was that it would be worth moving up to #4 to get Ivey, but he might be there anyways. I think you are severely undervaluing Grant, but I think he is worth way more than moving up just one spot from 4 to 5.
Maybe. I have his value as a pick in the 15-22 range depending on the other teams need and willingness to trade for him.

I have the move from 4 -> 5 being worth a future 1st, Holmes being worth a pick in the 20-30 range, and Holiday being worth a decent 2nd + us including #37. So I think there's a good amount of value there.

In no world is any team straight up trading 4 for him. Hes a role player. Nice guy to have, but on a good team he's your 4th maybe 5th best player (What he was on the nuggets/thunder). He hasn't really improved, his volume went up and his efficiency tanked. Same guy just in a spot he shouldn't be.

I think Holmes and Grant are much closer in value than Grant and pick #4.

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Re: Draft Thread - Kings move up to #4 

Post#26 » by SAKURABA216 » Wed May 18, 2022 4:45 am

City of Trees wrote:
codydaze wrote:
BobbyJackson wrote:i want ivey. just think taking best player available is the only move at 4, and i have ivey as the 3rd best player in this draft.


I'm not as high on Ivey, especially his fit with our roster. High usage and not a natural playmaker seems like the wrong move for us and I don't believe in his jumper either. I would much rather take the upside of Shaedon. He's got a silky jumpshot and is an explosive athlete, I think he would fit in great with Fox and Sabonis.
See, this is why Monte and his team need to explore moving Fox. It's worth it. If Ivey or whoever checks boxes Fox doesn't then you look to the market to see what Fox can bring back.

#4 can lead to a huge shift in this roster and I'm here for it.


I get what you mean, but the Kings FO seems like they would rather try to compete now with Fox and Sabonis. Otherwise they wouldn't have traded Haliburton who is a better backcourt mate to Fox than Ivey would be and is possibly a better building block than Fox.

You are probably right though and I wouldn't be shocked at all if the Kings drafted Ivey and the Pistons picked Sharp afterwards. The Kings have a history of picking the player the Pistons desperately want a pick or 2 earlier in the draft. I still remember when you guys drafted Cousins at #5 and we had to settle on freaking Greg Monroe at #7. A few years later you snatched up Ben McLemore at #7 and we ended up with KCP at #8. :(
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Re: Draft Thread - Kings move up to #4 

Post#27 » by LightTheBeam » Wed May 18, 2022 4:45 am

City of Trees wrote:
codydaze wrote:
BobbyJackson wrote:i want ivey. just think taking best player available is the only move at 4, and i have ivey as the 3rd best player in this draft.


I'm not as high on Ivey, especially his fit with our roster. High usage and not a natural playmaker seems like the wrong move for us and I don't believe in his jumper either. I would much rather take the upside of Shaedon. He's got a silky jumpshot and is an explosive athlete, I think he would fit in great with Fox and Sabonis.
See, this is why Monte and his team need to explore moving Fox. It's worth it. If Ivey or whoever checks boxes Fox doesn't then you look to the market to see what Fox can bring back.

#4 can lead to a huge shift in this roster and I'm here for it.
The problem is what are we getting for Fox? And what does that signal to sabonis? In a world we never made the Sabonis trade and still have Hali I'm all for it.

Trade Fox for the best package you can get, possibly trade mitchell. And restart with Ivey-Haliburton.

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Re: Draft Thread - Kings move up to #4 

Post#28 » by LightTheBeam » Wed May 18, 2022 4:48 am

City of Trees wrote:I just don't want Grant. Don't want to pay him, and I don't want to give up assets on a rental (which is what I'd want if they did trade for him)


I personally agree with you. I'm just saying that if Monte identifies Grant as a target, that's the kind of move I'd be okay with. In the sense that Detroit wants ivey and we plan to grab Sharpe.

Fox - Sharpe - Barnes - Grant - Sabonis.

There are worse outcomes, but this definitely isn't my first choice either.



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Re: Draft Thread - Kings move up to #4 

Post#29 » by SAKURABA216 » Wed May 18, 2022 4:52 am

RipPizzaGuy wrote:
SAKURABA216 wrote:
RipPizzaGuy wrote:Maybe something like

4 + Holmes + Holiday + 37

For

Grant + 5

But no way in hell am I trading #4 for Grant. Hes not that guy.

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Lol my rationale for the trade was that it would be worth moving up to #4 to get Ivey, but he might be there anyways. I think you are severely undervaluing Grant, but I think he is worth way more than moving up just one spot from 4 to 5.
Maybe. I have his value as a pick in the 15-22 range depending on the other teams need and willingness to trade for him.

I have the move from 4 -> 5 being worth a future 1st, Holmes being worth a pick in the 20-30 range, and Holiday being worth a decent 2nd + us including #37. So I think there's a good amount of value there.

In no world is any team straight up trading 4 for him. Hes a role player. Nice guy to have, but on a good team he's your 4th maybe 5th best player (What he was on the nuggets/thunder). He hasn't really improved, his volume went up and his efficiency tanked. Same guy just in a spot he shouldn't be.

I think Holmes and Grant are much closer in value than Grant and pick #4.

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Yeah, we may just be bad trade partners. I wouldn't be surprised if we were able to get the Portland pick at #7 plus other pieces for Grant without giving up our pick.
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Re: Draft Thread - Kings move up to #4 

Post#30 » by rpa » Wed May 18, 2022 4:58 am

Paolo, Chet, and Smith are going 1, 2, 3 in some order or another. There's a big gap between those 3 and everyone else (I happen to think there's also a pretty sizable gap between 1/2 and 3, but that's another story). There may be an interesting question of paying future draft capital to move up (#4 + top 4 protected 2023 for #3 or #2?).

My take on the next handful:
- Ivey: No thanks. Ivey's weak playmaking (3.9 assists per 40) means he's a either a SG or a combo guard. Problem is his shooting is suspect. 26% as a frosh turned into 36% last year, but there's a catch: he looked great early in the season, but shot like dog **** starting in conference play. November, December, January he shot 43%, 47%, and 42% from 3pt range, respectively. February and March? 18%, 33%. The Kings need off ball spacers around Fox and Sabonis.

- Griffin: I was pretty clear in the other thread. Hard no. Shooting looks great, but the defense is super questionable. Gives me scary McLemore vibes with his utter lack of anything else beyond shooting.

- Murray: I think he's a target if you move back, but I wouldn't take him at 4. Way too old (almost 22 at draft time) really cuts down the potential and if he's that old I'd want to see him dominating. I thought he was pretty good on offense (not a great playmaker) and just so-so on defense. I see his ceiling as decent role player so that lack of defense makes me say no.

The 2 guys I'd look at (and probably take 1 or the other):

1) Sharpe. Fluid, athletic, and good shooter. Ranked #1 in next year's freshman class, but reclassified. Past rankings have been overall solid in the past: viewtopic.php?p=97715700#p97715700. I think he's got superstar potential and given the historical rankings his floor is probably "decent player"

2) Eason. He's a bit on the older side (not Keegan Murray old, though), but I think the difference I see between him and Murray is 2 fold:
a) He was dominant defensively
b) His characteristics point to elite role player as a floor (elite defense + already a good shooter)


In the end I'd probably gamble on high end talent and take Sharpe. Eason will probably be better sooner, but IMO you take BPA this high. Sharpe is clear BPA.
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Re: Draft Thread - Kings move up to #4 

Post#31 » by LightTheBeam » Wed May 18, 2022 5:19 am

SAKURABA216 wrote:
RipPizzaGuy wrote:
SAKURABA216 wrote:

Lol my rationale for the trade was that it would be worth moving up to #4 to get Ivey, but he might be there anyways. I think you are severely undervaluing Grant, but I think he is worth way more than moving up just one spot from 4 to 5.
Maybe. I have his value as a pick in the 15-22 range depending on the other teams need and willingness to trade for him.

I have the move from 4 -> 5 being worth a future 1st, Holmes being worth a pick in the 20-30 range, and Holiday being worth a decent 2nd + us including #37. So I think there's a good amount of value there.

In no world is any team straight up trading 4 for him. Hes a role player. Nice guy to have, but on a good team he's your 4th maybe 5th best player (What he was on the nuggets/thunder). He hasn't really improved, his volume went up and his efficiency tanked. Same guy just in a spot he shouldn't be.

I think Holmes and Grant are much closer in value than Grant and pick #4.

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Yeah, we may just be bad trade partners. I wouldn't be surprised if we were able to get the Portland pick at #7 plus other pieces for Grant without giving up our pick.
I will be beyond shocked if the Pistons get any lotto pick straight up for Grant. Again I just don't see any argument for him being worth that. Trying to think of recent trades involving Picks for win now players. The 2 that come to mind were Ray Allen to Celtics for #5, and George Hill to the pacers for #15. I'm not even sure Grant has the value Hill had at that time, 24 year old 6th man for the #1 seed spurs who was stuck behind Tony Parker.

That said, if there's a team who could make that sort of panic move it would be the Blazers. I still think they'd ask for Bey + Grant for #7 + Bledsoe. But we will see what happens.

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Re: Draft Thread - Kings move up to #4 

Post#32 » by City of Trees » Wed May 18, 2022 5:22 am

RipPizzaGuy wrote:The problem is what are we getting for Fox?

Exactly why I believe Monte and his staff need to make answering that question a priority before draft night. Jaden Ivey will be sitting right there for the taking. He gives you a lot of what Fox does, he's 4 years younger and a hell of a lot cheaper. Oh and by the way he's a SG so now Monte can maximize last year's pick and get better in the back court.
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Re: Draft Thread - Kings move up to #4 

Post#33 » by LightTheBeam » Wed May 18, 2022 5:28 am

City of Trees wrote:
RipPizzaGuy wrote:The problem is what are we getting for Fox?

Exactly why I believe Monte and his staff need to make answering that question a priority before draft night. Jaden Ivey will be sitting right there for the taking. He gives you a lot of what Fox does, he's 4 years younger and a hell of a lot cheaper. Oh and by the way he's a SG so now Monte can maximize last year's pick and get better in the back court.
Well in reality I don't think any player should be off-limits (sorry Sabonis), so I have no problem with taking feelers. I'd just be very hesitant to trade Fox and what that signals to Sabonis.

Again in a world where Fox is coming off a solid season and guys like Siakam are available, sure. I just don't think we live there.

More likely is teams like Detroit sniffing around with guys like Jerami grant. Puke

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Re: Draft Thread - Kings move up to #4 

Post#34 » by City of Trees » Wed May 18, 2022 5:31 am

RipPizzaGuy wrote:
City of Trees wrote:
RipPizzaGuy wrote:The problem is what are we getting for Fox?

Exactly why I believe Monte and his staff need to make answering that question a priority before draft night. Jaden Ivey will be sitting right there for the taking. He gives you a lot of what Fox does, he's 4 years younger and a hell of a lot cheaper. Oh and by the way he's a SG so now Monte can maximize last year's pick and get better in the back court.
Well in reality I don't think any player should be off-limits (sorry Sabonis), so I have no problem with taking feelers. I'd just be very hesitant to trade Fox and what that signals to Sabonis.

Again in a world where Fox is coming off a solid season and guys like Siakam are available, sure. I just don't think we live there.

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My thing is I believe Sabonis will be happy if Monte puts together a winning roster. Build this thing right and we don't have a problem here.

As for Fox's value, I'm with you I have no clue what he could bring. I really like the idea of adding OG + some additional asset
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Re: Draft Thread - Kings move up to #4 

Post#35 » by LightTheBeam » Wed May 18, 2022 5:39 am

City of Trees wrote:
RipPizzaGuy wrote:
City of Trees wrote:Exactly why I believe Monte and his staff need to make answering that question a priority before draft night. Jaden Ivey will be sitting right there for the taking. He gives you a lot of what Fox does, he's 4 years younger and a hell of a lot cheaper. Oh and by the way he's a SG so now Monte can maximize last year's pick and get better in the back court.
Well in reality I don't think any player should be off-limits (sorry Sabonis), so I have no problem with taking feelers. I'd just be very hesitant to trade Fox and what that signals to Sabonis.

Again in a world where Fox is coming off a solid season and guys like Siakam are available, sure. I just don't think we live there.

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My thing is I believe Sabonis will be happy if Monte puts together a winning roster. Build this thing right and we don't have a problem here.

As for Fox's value, I'm with you I have no clue what he could bring. I really like the idea of adding OG + some additional asset
If that deal you posted on t&t was available I'd be fine with it. I think his value is probably higher than what outsiders believe, but I don't think it's what I'd want it to be.

The reality is if Monte thinks ivey is the BPA he will take him and figure it out later. That could mean moving either Fox or mitchell. He could take the first half of the season to figure that out and put ourselves in a similar situation to last year. Even assuming we do nothing else but resign DDV and sign an MLE player. Suddenly mid season you have a decent amount of matching salary with Davion for the next Sabonis move. fox/ivey could end up working fine.

Lots of possibilities, and I'll support the BPA if that's the route Monte goes.

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Re: Draft Thread - Kings move up to #4 

Post#36 » by LightTheBeam » Wed May 18, 2022 5:40 am

rpa wrote:Paolo, Chet, and Smith are going 1, 2, 3 in some order or another. There's a big gap between those 3 and everyone else (I happen to think there's also a pretty sizable gap between 1/2 and 3, but that's another story). There may be an interesting question of paying future draft capital to move up (#4 + top 4 protected 2023 for #3 or #2?).

My take on the next handful:
- Ivey: No thanks. Ivey's weak playmaking (3.9 assists per 40) means he's a either a SG or a combo guard. Problem is his shooting is suspect. 26% as a frosh turned into 36% last year, but there's a catch: he looked great early in the season, but shot like dog **** starting in conference play. November, December, January he shot 43%, 47%, and 42% from 3pt range, respectively. February and March? 18%, 33%. The Kings need off ball spacers around Fox and Sabonis.

- Griffin: I was pretty clear in the other thread. Hard no. Shooting looks great, but the defense is super questionable. Gives me scary McLemore vibes with his utter lack of anything else beyond shooting.

- Murray: I think he's a target if you move back, but I wouldn't take him at 4. Way too old (almost 22 at draft time) really cuts down the potential and if he's that old I'd want to see him dominating. I thought he was pretty good on offense (not a great playmaker) and just so-so on defense. I see his ceiling as decent role player so that lack of defense makes me say no.

The 2 guys I'd look at (and probably take 1 or the other):

1) Sharpe. Fluid, athletic, and good shooter. Ranked #1 in next year's freshman class, but reclassified. Past rankings have been overall solid in the past: viewtopic.php?p=97715700#p97715700. I think he's got superstar potential and given the historical rankings his floor is probably "decent player"

2) Eason. He's a bit on the older side (not Keegan Murray old, though), but I think the difference I see between him and Murray is 2 fold:
a) He was dominant defensively
b) His characteristics point to elite role player as a floor (elite defense + already a good shooter)


In the end I'd probably gamble on high end talent and take Sharpe. Eason will probably be better sooner, but IMO you take BPA this high. Sharpe is clear BPA.
I'm a little nervous that Sharpe could go top 3, and Banchero could fall to 4.

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Re: Draft Thread - Kings move up to #4 

Post#37 » by KF10 » Wed May 18, 2022 6:05 am

City of Trees wrote:
KF10 wrote:I don't think moving up in the draft changes much. The Kings are still in this "win-now" mentality. I bet they will trade the pick for an all star caliber player or close to it + pieces.
Moving up makes it a lot easier to trade the pick.


Yup.

Monte must be feeling the hot seat due to his own contract/extension situation. The FO has given a directive to win now since last season. Hired Brown (not exactly a rebuild coach). I will be shocked if the pick wasn’t discussed in trade talks.

Everyone on this team is on the table + pick.

Monte will need to put on his big boy cap and start making moves soon.
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Re: Draft Thread - Kings move up to #4 

Post#38 » by City of Trees » Wed May 18, 2022 6:19 am

KF10 wrote:
City of Trees wrote:
KF10 wrote:I don't think moving up in the draft changes much. The Kings are still in this "win-now" mentality. I bet they will trade the pick for an all star caliber player or close to it + pieces.
Moving up makes it a lot easier to trade the pick.


Yup.

Monte must be feeling the hot seat due to his own contract/extension situation. The FO has given a directive to win now since last season. Hired Brown (not exactly a rebuild coach). I will be shocked if the pick wasn’t discussed in trade talks.

Everyone on this team is on the table + pick.

Monte will need to put on his big boy cap and start making moves soon.
We discussed John Collins months ago so might as well revisit what such a trade would look like:

4 / Barnes for Collins /16


Thoughts?
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Re: Draft Thread - Kings move up to #4 

Post#39 » by KF10 » Wed May 18, 2022 6:37 am

City of Trees wrote:
KF10 wrote:
City of Trees wrote:Moving up makes it a lot easier to trade the pick.


Yup.

Monte must be feeling the hot seat due to his own contract/extension situation. The FO has given a directive to win now since last season. Hired Brown (not exactly a rebuild coach). I will be shocked if the pick wasn’t discussed in trade talks.

Everyone on this team is on the table + pick.

Monte will need to put on his big boy cap and start making moves soon.
We discussed John Collins months ago so might as well revisit what such a trade would look like:

4 / Barnes for Collins /16


Thoughts?


I can be wrong but I don’t think Collins is worth #4
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Re: Draft Thread - Kings move up to #4 

Post#40 » by BoogieTime » Wed May 18, 2022 6:51 am

SAKURABA216 wrote:
RipPizzaGuy wrote:
SAKURABA216 wrote:

Lol my rationale for the trade was that it would be worth moving up to #4 to get Ivey, but he might be there anyways. I think you are severely undervaluing Grant, but I think he is worth way more than moving up just one spot from 4 to 5.
Maybe. I have his value as a pick in the 15-22 range depending on the other teams need and willingness to trade for him.

I have the move from 4 -> 5 being worth a future 1st, Holmes being worth a pick in the 20-30 range, and Holiday being worth a decent 2nd + us including #37. So I think there's a good amount of value there.

In no world is any team straight up trading 4 for him. Hes a role player. Nice guy to have, but on a good team he's your 4th maybe 5th best player (What he was on the nuggets/thunder). He hasn't really improved, his volume went up and his efficiency tanked. Same guy just in a spot he shouldn't be.

I think Holmes and Grant are much closer in value than Grant and pick #4.

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Yeah, we may just be bad trade partners. I wouldn't be surprised if we were able to get the Portland pick at #7 plus other pieces for Grant without giving up our pick.


I think your overvaluing an expiring Grant

For instance many Kings fans don't think he is better than Harrison Barnes, but about the same level of player and contract. We wouldnt expect 7 for Barnes

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