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WARNING, here is another of my what if posts:)

While reading the sports section in the Bee (Modesto) this morning I was basking in the 2 and 1 road trip. I started looking at the standings and wondering when the Kings could reach .500. Wow 5 games under .500, Hhmmnnn, I look at the upcoming schedule. Yes the Kings need to go on a run. Then I see Utah on the schedule twice at 3 games out and at 9. The Kings need to beat Utah. Utah is in front of the Kings in the play off run. I counted up the number of games against Western Conference teams that are in front of the Kings, the total is 21. The games that really catch my eye are the 2 against Utah, 3 vs Portland, 3 vs Houston, 1 vs Denver and 2 against the W's. At 10 games or more above .500 are Phoenix, Lakers, Dallas, Hornets, Spurs, catching those 5 seems far out of reach unless they lose a star to injury.

My point is that not only is getting to .500 possible, so is making the playoffs. .500 just involves winning X number of games. But the playoffs means beating the teams ahead of the Kings and winning the ones against the teams out of the race.

Yes I know this is all just conjecture, but hey, I am a Fan:)

Oh by the way, The Lakers are on the schedule 4 times. With Bynum out if Kobe goes in the paint he should earn it at the line. Our wings should use the Phil style of D where they bang bodies with Kobe all the time, coming up the court Phil has them ride the guy. The Bulls made a living doing it and so do the Lakers, especially Kobe. So body up fellas.

KB

We go 4-0 vs. the Lakers and this was an EXTREMELY successful season for these guys.

we have favorable Schedule the next few games but we shouldn't take them for granted, anyway hopefully we can extend the wining streak.

Go Kings!

.500 ball won't get us into the playoffs. we need to be .600+ this year to get in...something that we are too far behind to achieve

Meaning we would have to be
32-11 the rest of the way on

.744 ball

yeah right

^ wow you must really want to tank.
btw after we traded for artset we won 26 out of 36 games, so yes we can do it again.

a-rod wrote:^ wow you must really want to tank.
btw after we traded for artset we won 26 out of 36 games, so yes we can do it again.

I want us to rebuild.

Keeping Artest/Bibby/Miller does nothing for our team, it'll only make us worse and worse to a point where Martin leaves after his current contract or worse wants a trade.

The idea that the majority of fans can't remenber 2 months ago, or look 2 months in the future frustrates me. Every single person here on this board was willing to trade Miller/Bibby/Artest during the summer if there was a good trade. It was pretty much a consensus that the team needed to rebuild. However, i'm not for trading to trade, there has to be a point and purpose. At the time, none of our players had any value at all, so it was smart to wait until they did have value which is now. Artest/Bibby/Miller have the highest value they will ever have as long as they are a King. However, now, people don't want to trade them and make a run for the playoffs?

What for? We make the playoffs what then. We miss the lottery, get another player like Douby and miss another draft with great talent. Miller/Bibby/Artest gets another year older. With Artest either a) he walks away and we get nothing b) a sign and trade happens, where instead of getting possibly .90 cents to the dollar now, we get .30 cents to the dollar. or c) he resigns, and we have no cap space whatsoever for another few years. Then what happens after Artest is dealth with? We still won't have a PF or a legit PG. Don't tell me Udrih is a pg that can lead us to a ring. The teams that want either Bibby or Miller dwindle down again, and perhaps with Bibby disapear completley, unless tehy want him as an expiring. So overall after the summer, what happens to our team? we don't get another free agents due to cap space, we get a rookie that doesn't really matter much. Overall, we stay the same. Young players get better, Old players get worse.

And another year continues...and then another...and another...

**** that.
Either a) win NOW or b) rebuild.
If we want to win now, trade Salmons, Garcia, Douby, and KEVIN MARTIN.
If we can get a Gasol for Martin, and we want to win now, then do it today. Martin won't help us win as much as Gasol will if we want to compete with duncan, kg, dirk and nash.

If we don't want that...
then trade Bibby, Milller, Artest. They serve us no purpose and only hurt the team by winning games. Trade them now, don't keep a mix of youth and vets.

As of now, our team's future is horrible, because the Maloofs/Petrie has no committed to either winning or rebuilding. A team can't be both. Or at least our team can't, because of the limited talent. Say we have a Duncan or a KG we can be doing both, but we don't.

Pick one or the other and commit to it.
The longer we stall, the longer we suck.

I'm starting to think that Geoff will look to trade for a franchise player. You have to be lucky to get one in the draft anyway. This draft for instance, has maybe two or three guys that really look like they could be close to franchise players (Beasley, Rose and maybe Jordan), and tanking to try to get one or the other is of course silly.

In short, I trust that Geoff knows what he's doing, and I trust that something big will eventually happen. It may not be for a couple of years, but it doesn't need to be.

I am ready to rebuild

But I am not ready to tank and I am not ready to give Miller. Bibby, Artest away

The young players that are being offered aren't players I see as the future of our franchise.

I am willing to wait til the offseason to trade Bibby when he is a huge expiring contract

I would like to a trade Artest before the deadline along with Kenny Thomas. I would keep Artest otherwise

Miller i could care less we hang on to him or move him at the moment because he is our best most consistent big

Artest93 wrote:I am ready to rebuild

But I am not ready to tank and I am not ready to give Miller. Bibby, Artest away

The young players that are being offered aren't players I see as the future of our franchise.

I am willing to wait til the offseason to trade Bibby when he is a huge expiring contract

I would like to a trade Artest before the deadline along with Kenny Thomas. I would keep Artest otherwise

Miller i could care less we hang on to him or move him at the moment because he is our best most consistent big

Good players values are actually usually hurt by being expiring contracts because they are seen as rentals. Because if a team is trading for Mike for his services, they are looking to compete now, which means that an expiring contract doesn't really help them.

mitchweber wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



Good players values are actually usually hurt by being expiring contracts because they are seen as rentals. Because if a team is trading for Mike for his services, they are looking to compete now, which means that an expiring contract doesn't really help them.

Not when the value of the expiring contract is less than what he is going to sign his next deal.

He's not ever going to get 14.5 million a year

He won't be a rental because he will be easily signable in the offseason

mitchweber wrote:I'm starting to think that Geoff will look to trade for a franchise player. You have to be lucky to get one in the draft anyway. This draft for instance, has maybe two or three guys that really look like they could be close to franchise players (Beasley, Rose and maybe Jordan), and tanking to try to get one or the other is of course silly.

In short, I trust that Geoff knows what he's doing, and I trust that something big will eventually happen. It may not be for a couple of years, but it doesn't need to be.

I hope you are right Mitch. The Kings have a good squad with lots of good players. If Petrie can trade a couple for a "franchise player" that would be great. I agree that the draft is a crap shoot.

KB

deNIEd wrote:.500 ball won't get us into the playoffs. we need to be .600+ this year to get in...something that we are too far behind to achieve

Meaning we would have to be
32-11 the rest of the way on

.744 ball

yeah right

You are correct, if the teams ahead if the Kings stay on their current pace. But since the Kings play so many of them, if the Kings win the games against the teams within their reach its almost like TWO wins.

Things would need to align in the Kings favor, but DAMNIT isn't it about time

KB

King Baller wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



I hope you are right Mitch. The Kings have a good squad with lots of good players. If Petrie can trade a couple for a "franchise player" that would be great. I agree that the draft is a crap shoot.

KB

It's not a crap shoot really. The last 4 or 5 teams that won a championship have all been lead by a top 3 pick:

89-90 Pistons: Isiah Thomas
Bulls: Jordan(3rd pick)
Rockets: Olajuwon
Lakers: Snaq
2004 Pistons: Billups
Spurs: Duncan

You might pick a bust, but the odds of getting a franchise player in the top 3 picks is WAY higher than anywhere else.

We don't have the trade chips to get a #1 guy either. Unless you say Martin but then we won't have the pieces to put around the guy we get so he can win. He won't have another #1 or #2 guy who can take pressure off him.

Nobody is trading a franchise player for Bibby+Artest, and we might not have Ron as a trade chip after this season anyway. No franchise players are going up on the market in the next 5 weeks before the deadline. The ones that could, like Kidd, are all too old for us. That Ritchmond/Webber deal is a once in a GM's career type of deal IMO.

The scary thing is that this team, schedule wise, looks to be a legit contender to be .500 ball pretty quick. We have some very beatable opponents coming up. Good or bad? Well, depends on what you think the benefits are one way or the other and how the man in charge interprets run up into the middle ranks of mediocrity.

BMiller52 wrote:

King Baller wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



I hope you are right Mitch. The Kings have a good squad with lots of good players. If Petrie can trade a couple for a "franchise player" that would be great. I agree that the draft is a crap shoot.

KB

It's not a crap shoot really. The last 4 or 5 teams that won a championship have all been lead by a top 3 pick:
89-90 Pistons: Isiah Thomas
Bulls: Jordan(3rd pick)
Rockets: Olajuwon
Lakers: Snaq
2004 Pistons: Billups
Spurs: Duncan

You might pick a bust, but the odds of getting a franchise player in the top 3 picks is WAY higher than anywhere else.

We don't have the trade chips to get a #1 guy either. Unless you say Martin but then we won't have the pieces to put around the guy we get so he can win. He won't have another #1 or #2 guy who can take pressure off him.

Nobody is trading a franchise player for Bibby+Artest, and we might not have Ron as a trade chip after this season anyway. No franchise players are going up on the market in the next 5 weeks before the deadline. The ones that could, like Kidd, are all too old for us. That Ritchmond/Webber deal is a once in a GM's career type of deal IMO.

I guess that's good for us then! We have a couple in Reef and Bibby.

SacKingZZZ wrote:The scary thing is that this team, schedule wise, looks to be a legit contender to be .500 ball pretty quick. We have some very beatable opponents coming up. Good or bad? Well, depends on what you think the benefits are one way or the other and how the man in charge interprets run up into the middle ranks of mediocrity.

The only thing I really like about getting to .500 is that if we become a decent team it'll really increase Mike/Ron's trade value.

Lets further what BMiller just said

2007
Spurs - Duncan (1)
Cavs - Lebron (1)

2006
Heat - Shaq (1) Wade (5)
Mavs - Dirk (9)

2005
Spurs - Duncan (1)
Pistons - Billups (3), Rasheed (4), Rip (7)

2004
Pistons - Billups (3), Rasheed (4), Rip (7)
Lakers - Shaq (1), Kobe (13)

2003
Spurs - Duncan (1), Robinson (1)
Nets - Kenyon Martin (1), Kidd (2), Richard Jeff (13)

2002
Lakers - Shaq (1), Kobe (13)
Nets - Kenyon Martin (1), Kidd (2), Kieth Van Horn (2) Richard Jeff (13)

2001
Lakers - Shaq (1), Kobe (13)
Sixers - AI (1), Dikembe Mutombo (4)

2000
Lakers - Shaq (1), Kobe (13)
Pacers - Rik Smits (2), Reggie Miller (11), Austin Croshere (12) Jalen Rose (13)

1999
Spurs - Duncan (1), Robinson (1)
NYK - Ewing (1), Larry Johnson (1), Camby (2), Allan Houston (11)

1998
Chicao - Jordan (3), Pippen (5), Luc Longley (7), Ron Harper (8)
Utah - Malone (13), Stockton (16)


The last 12 teams that have been in the finals
7 have a number 1 pick
One had Jordan
One had Malone and Stockton
One had Reggie
One had one of the best team defense's ever
One had one of the richest owners ever


DO NOT TELL ME THE DRAFT IS NOT IMPORTANT
and that
YOU CAN BUILD A TEAM WITHOUT THE DRAFT, because you
CAN'T

Remenber, we had Webber who was a number 1 pick

BMiller52 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



The only thing I really like about getting to .500 is that if we become a decent team it'll really increase Mike/Ron's trade value.

I don't know if I would agree with that. Like I have said time and time again, Ron and Mike have a certain number of suitors. They don't have realistic chances at landing on any team at any time. The ones that are interested know what we want, and we know what they can give. Now if one of the bunch ups the ante at the deadline then maybe they win the sweepstakes.

Now the one thing a decent run may do is create the illusion that Mike and Ron are integral to our success and therefor it would be harder to pry them away from us. I think that's what Petrie may be doing. Players certainly have no value if they don't hold any for the team they are currently on. Still, we either have to come down to the other teams level or they come up to ours to get a deal done. Maybe even meet somewhere in the middle.

Correction--you can't build a team without players that were high draft picks. A good chunk of the guys you just mentioned were acquired via trade, and a good chunk of them were not producing like lottery picks.

But of course you also need the draft. But that doesn't mean you should rely on it. Superstars aren't enough. You need all time greats if you're looking for superstars. Do we really think that anybody from this draft will be an all time great? I don't think so. So I think it might also be fair to say that it would be a good idea to not create a losing atmosphere (or to word it better, an atmosphere where the goal is always to be the best team possible) for our young guys just so that we can get a guy who might be a better player.

I think if anything it's more about timing. There are plenty of "great" players. Arguably every team in the league has one or one somewhere near there at their respective position. Now being able to put the pieces around them is another huge part.

Good point Mitch, I think the best players typically and obviously are drafted higher for a reason, but they don't always have to be acquired by a given team only through the draft. Very rarely does a player stay in one city his whole career getting someone like that through trade is possible too.