With the trade deadline approaching...

[BMiller52]

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PF is definitely a concern, but based on what we'd be able to trade for, I'd say our best bet is probably the draft.

Yeah, I heard that Tyrus Thomas is on the trading block though. Or if we could get David Lee? But we need a decent PF 1st before we think about the playoffs IMO.

[Bac2Basics]

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Yeah, I heard that Tyrus Thomas is on the trading block though. Or if we could get David Lee? But we need a decent PF 1st before we think about the playoffs IMO.

I'm not sold on T. Thomas for some reason, but he just doesn't seem like the long term solution that one would hope for.

My take on David Lee is that he's as good or better than anything we have now, but I don't see him as a long term high level starter, I would view him at his best as a 6th man of the year canditate, but not much more than that. I think there's a decent shot he could be gotten with the MLE when his contract expires.

As far as the playoffs, I'm actually very much in favor of us not making the playoffs for the next year or two because I think it's the only way we guarantee the rebuilding we need, rather than this halfway kind of thing that we've been looking at lately. Otherwise we keep ending up with the 7 or 8 spot in the west and 1st round playoff exits.

[Smills91]

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That would actually be about the worst move that the Kings could make.

Sacramento needs to move multiple big contracts

Not for the pure **** available they don't.

[Bac2Basics]

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Not for the pure **** available they don't.

There's got to be better deals out there than the LBJ4MVP23 nonsense that we've been seeing.
Petrie's smart enough to make it happen.

[SacKingZZZ]

[quote="Smills91"]Keep the team together, make the play-offs, re-sign Ron in the offseason, draft a PG in the draft(in the 15-20 range - Darren Collison anyone? there is a plethera of talented PG's in this draft and Petrie can snag a VERY good one whether he has the 1st pick or the 20th pick), Build on this season for next season and watch our players value sky-rocket as they make some noise in the playoffs.[/quote]




By my count I'd say 14 more in the L column and we are out of the playoff race, sorry I really hope Geoff Petrie does the exact opposite of this.

[SacKingZZZ]

We don't need to move multiple big contracts! Not yet at least, we do need to salvage some value for Ron Artest though. I am telling you, he is our one chance to clear some salary off the books. Garcia ain't gonna get it done. Salmons ain't gonna get it done, nor should we move either of them to dump salary.

If we keep things as is and re-sign Ben AND Ron, we will be somewhere in the neighborhood of 10 million over the tax! Playing to do anything great this year is completely (Please Use More Appropriate Word). We've prolonged things long enough. We don't need to blow up the team but we need to see that we can get a nice kickstart at the deadline. Bibby/Miller/etc. can wait, the big name impending FA can't.

[master_niz]

With the deadline approaching, both artest and beno should be the priorities when petrie seeks potential trade partners. Both are impending free agents and i am not sure if they fit into the teams long term plans.

Artest is seeking a contract befitting his talent and with both garcia and salmons growing into a more pronounced role, i dont believe a financial commitment needs to be made that limits are ability to fill other needs; while at the same time adds to the talent at the wing position that is currently already sufficient. My only concern with Artest is whether the kings can find a trade partner; cause looking at the potential playoff teams many teams already have a committment (either because of talent or their contract) to a small forward.

When Beno signed with the kings he was looking for an opportunity and the kings were looking for a pg. I would say both parties have benefitted from each other, and now I think it is time they both cash in. Beno can go to a team that is interested in him long term (the kings are still looking for the starting pg of the future, when they have that, then they can think about his back up). And the kings can potentially receive a late first, which they can turn into any number of things.

Miller, Salmons, and Bibby, i believe will retain their value into the offseason so trading them now isnt a neccessity as it is with beno and artest. (Im not sure of its just me, and I know i havent posted in a while, but does my post reads like a 7th grade essay? anyway...)

[_SRV_]

Beno won't bring anything in a trade, Artest is a game changer that you'll need either cap space or bird rights to sign, we don't have Beno's rights (he won't get more than the MLE anyway), so it's pretty pointless to trade him.

[master_niz]

Beno won't bring anything in a trade, Artest is a game changer that you'll need either cap space or bird rights to sign, we don't have Beno's rights (he won't get more than the MLE anyway), so it's pretty pointless to trade him.

If Beno doesnt bring any interest, then trading him would be pointless, i agree with that. I am only assumming (and maybe incorrectly), that with all the "buzz" around damon stoudamire (and i dont think anyone would disagree that at the least beno and damon are at least comparable in terms of talent and impact to a team) that the kings may be able to gain further return on what has already when an excellent signing.

[KingInExile]

Beno won't bring anything in a trade, Artest is a game changer that you'll need either cap space or bird rights to sign, we don't have Beno's rights (he won't get more than the MLE anyway), so it's pretty pointless to trade him.

If Beno doesnt bring any interest, then trading him would be pointless, i agree with that. I am only assumming (and maybe incorrectly), that with all the "buzz" around damon stoudamire (and i dont think anyone would disagree that at the least beno and damon are at least comparable in terms of talent and impact to a team) that the kings may be able to gain further return on what has already when an excellent signing.

You've lost me here...can you clarify what you're trying to say?

Beno is not going to be a key part in any trade before the deadline. His contract is too small to get equal talent back and it's unlikely that Petrie would just throw him in as filler unless unless the Kings are getting back something really good (Petrie has liked Beno for quite a while). Any GM interested in him would more than likely just wait until the summer and try to sign him (most likely bidding against Petrie). I could see Beno as filler in a deal moving Artest IF the Kings were getting back a top-tier talent AND the other GM had an interest in Beno. But that seems very unlikely.

[master_niz]

Beno is not going to be a key part in any trade before the deadline. His contract is too small to get equal talent back and it's unlikely that Petrie would just throw him in as filler unless unless the Kings are getting back something really good (Petrie has liked Beno for quite a while). Any GM interested in him would more than likely just wait until the summer and try to sign him (most likely bidding against Petrie). I could see Beno as filler in a deal moving Artest IF the Kings were getting back a top-tier talent AND the other GM had an interest in Beno. But that seems very unlikely.

What i was attempting to justify was that beno may be of interest to a contender whom is looking for a backup point. There "looks" to be several teams interested in Damon Stoudamire, even to the extent of trading for him, and i would say that beno is at the very least comparable in talent and impact to a team. As well i wouldnt think that with beno's contract the way it is that the kings would or could expect fair value, however at the very least i believe the kings could acquire a 2nd rounder (i would think that a late 1st rounder may be possible).

I think our contention is where we place beno in terms of the kings long term plan. While im a huge fan of beno and what he brings i dont see him as an integral part of the kings future (but i think im digressing). Anyway, maybe its only me, but there always seems to be small trades that occur at the deadline, and i think beno is the kind of talent that could truly benefit a contender. So...i would hope that we could at least agree that if a contender was interested, petrie would be able to put aside his personal feelings, and weigh the different scenarios; and if there is nothing there, then this is just a mute point.

[KingInExile]

You have to remember that Beno was traded by the ultimate "contender", the defending champs, to the worst team in the league for a 2nd round pick...then he was cut by the T-wolves. The only teams to give him a look after the T-wolves cut him were the Clippers and the Kings. "Contenders" who are in need of a PG (Miami, Cleavland, Denver) didn't even give him a look. Many of those contenders you speak of had a chance and passed. Beno has been decent the first half of the season, but I don't think he has been so good that those contenders have suddenly changed their minds about him and would now be climbing all over themselves to offer Petrie fair return value.

As for the comparison with Damon Stoudamire, the teams that may be looking at him are not looking to trade for him...they would be looking to sign him to a minimum contract if/once the Grizzlies buy him out. They can get him without giving up anything. So I don't see why they would be interested in trading a pick for Beno. Although Beno may not be the PG of the future for the Kings, he certainly has a lot more value to the team than a late pick or a hand-me-down scrub with a minimum contract.

[Ballings7]

Well said ^... Beno wasn't even a 2nd round pick.

[master_niz]

Based on what beno has shown (and maybe i am overblowing his contributions) with the kings, i feel he has, at the very least, established himself as a capable back up point guard. Now whether 30 teams or one team had interest in him before, i tend to believe that the nba is a "what have you done for me lately" kind of culture; thereby i would assume that the number of teams that would be interested in today has grown from the day he was released.

Now, im not saying beno is the kind of talent that teams are climbing over themselves to bring in. Rather, teams that are in need of a backup point guard, either because of need or injury (i.e. atlanta), would at least consider acquiring the services of beno. And in the event he were to be traded, i dont believe the kings would receive the same talent level. I would think that the kings would only receive a player with "potential" talent (i.e. a young player who the team is down on but has potential or a draft pick).

My comparison with Damon Stoudamire lies with the "buzz" around his trade rumors (i believe with toronto). Now i do understand that he may be bought out and that then he would be a free agent. And yes, in that scenario he would be more attractive then beno. But the "buzz" around the possibility that there were team(s) interested in trading for him, tells me that there could be (not saying there are or that several teams would be climbing over themselves) a market for him. And in that scerario im sure geoff would be able to put his personal feelings about beno aside and at least consider all possibilities.

As for beno's value...whether or not he is worth a late round first or second, im not sure its relevant. Im of the opinion that the kings need to rebuild, and i personally believe another pick would be more important then the "possibility" of retaining beno (which we would have whether we kept him or not).

reports that the griz have rec'd offers for damon

Edit: fixed link

[KingInExile]

Based on what beno has shown (and maybe i am overblowing his contributions) with the kings, i feel he has, at the very least, established himself as a capable back up point guard. Now whether 30 teams or one team had interest in him before, i tend to believe that the nba is a "what have you done for me lately" kind of culture; thereby i would assume that the number of teams that would be interested in today has grown from the day he was released.

I believe he has established himself as a capable back-up PG and even as a competent starting PG. I don't think his abilities are in question.

Now, im not saying beno is the kind of talent that teams are climbing over themselves to bring in. Rather, teams that are in need of a backup point guard, either because of need or injury (i.e. atlanta), would at least consider acquiring the services of beno. And in the event he were to be traded, i dont believe the kings would receive the same talent level. I would think that the kings would only receive a player with "potential" talent (i.e. a young player who the team is down on but has potential or a draft pick).

Then why would we want to trade him? Moving him would leave the Kings without a true back-up point guard and could potentially leave the team without any PG if Bibby is moved. The Kings have a need for his services; he contributes to the team and plays a valuable role. So why would Petrie even consider giving him up if he was not going to get something of equal value back? Beno is already a player with potential who has proven he can be a valuable contribution to the team. Why should we take a step backwards by giving him up for "unproven potential" or even worse a draft pick?

My comparison with Damon Stoudamire lies with the "buzz" around his trade rumors (i believe with toronto). Now i do understand that he may be bought out and that then he would be a free agent. And yes, in that scenario he would be more attractive then beno. But the "buzz" around the possibility that there were team(s) interested in trading for him, tells me that there could be (not saying there are or that several teams would be climbing over themselves) a market for him. And in that scerario im sure geoff would be able to put his personal feelings about beno aside and at least consider all possibilities.

Yes, there are reports that the Grizzlies have discussed the potential to trade Stoudamire to some of the teams who would be interested in him, but there is no indication that those talks have been particularly productive. It is basically the Grizzlies making a last-ditch effort to get something in return for him. If I were a GM for one of the teams interested, I would not be all that eager to enter into a trade that would have $9M in salary over the next 2 years coming back when I knew there was a potential that I could just sign him for a minimum contract.

As for beno's value...whether or not he is worth a late round first or second, im not sure its relevant. Im of the opinion that the kings need to rebuild, and i personally believe another pick would be more important then the "possibility" of retaining beno (which we would have whether we kept him or not).

reports that the griz have rec'd offers for damon

Edit: fixed link

I disagree. Beno is a young player who is still improving. He has far more value than an unproven pick. Yes, the Kings need to rebuild. But you don't rebuild by trading away young talent with proven potential for late picks that have proven nothing in the NBA.

[master_niz]

Then why would we want to trade him? Moving him would leave the Kings without a true back-up point guard and could potentially leave the team without any PG if Bibby is moved. The Kings have a need for his services; he contributes to the team and plays a valuable role. So why would Petrie even consider giving him up if he was not going to get something of equal value back? Beno is already a player with potential who has proven he can be a valuable contribution to the team. Why should we take a step backwards by giving him up for "unproven potential" or even worse a draft pick?

I guess for me, id rather have a draft pick, the financial flexibility of not having a back up pg secured to a multi year contract, and a better draft choice (because we would be without his valuable contibutions) then keep him and, maybe, secure him to a multi year contract. I personally dont see this scenario as a step backwards.

Yes, there are reports that the Grizzlies have discussed the potential to trade Stoudamire to some of the teams who would be interested in him, but there is no indication that those talks have been particularly productive. It is basically the Grizzlies making a last-ditch effort to get something in return for him. If I were a GM for one of the teams interested, I would not be all that eager to enter into a trade that would have $9M in salary over the next 2 years coming back when I knew there was a potential that I could just sign him for a minimum contract.

And there havent been reports that state the trade discussions concerning damon havent been productive. Actually on the contrary, the griz were actually seeking additional compensation for damon (which i guess contends that maybe the offers for damon were weak, but with beno's contract i dont see the kings being proposed the same offers). In fact, i would assume that beno's contract actually helps in facilitating trade discussions. And since the article names several teams (though im not sure the validity of the article) i would assume that there is a market for back up pgs.

I disagree. Beno is a young player who is still improving. He has far more value than an unproven pick. Yes, the Kings need to rebuild. But you don't rebuild by trading away young talent with proven potential for late picks that have proven nothing in the NBA.

I guess our contention lies where we see beno's "proven potential." My projection (and maybe im way off) is that beno could be a really solid backup pg. And at this stage of the kings' "rebuild," i dont see "backup pg" as a priority. I would rather see beno's spot go to a player, who while he may not be proven, has a higher ceiling.

There are several ideas about how best the kings can rebuild, the same way there are several perspectives on beno. My take is that beno has been great and has really saved the kings this season, but, he is not someone that teams will be climbing over themselves this offseason to sign (including the kings). To me the kings priority should be identifying a new core to build around, and if that means taking a flyer on a young guy who has not proved anything, then im all for it.

[KingInExile]

Then why would we want to trade him? Moving him would leave the Kings without a true back-up point guard and could potentially leave the team without any PG if Bibby is moved. The Kings have a need for his services; he contributes to the team and plays a valuable role. So why would Petrie even consider giving him up if he was not going to get something of equal value back? Beno is already a player with potential who has proven he can be a valuable contribution to the team. Why should we take a step backwards by giving him up for "unproven potential" or even worse a draft pick?

I guess for me, id rather have a draft pick, the financial flexibility of not having a back up pg secured to a multi year contract, and a better draft choice (because we would be without his valuable contibutions) then keep him and, maybe, secure him to a multi year contract. I personally dont see this scenario as a step backwards.

You don't get "financial flexibility" by giving up a guy who is signed for less than $1M for this year for a young "prospect" talent who would likely have a multi-year deal at a much high salary or by taking back a pick which has salary obligations attached. The team already has financial flexibility with Beno and they have a guy who is filling a valuable role.

Yes, there are reports that the Grizzlies have discussed the potential to trade Stoudamire to some of the teams who would be interested in him, but there is no indication that those talks have been particularly productive. It is basically the Grizzlies making a last-ditch effort to get something in return for him. If I were a GM for one of the teams interested, I would not be all that eager to enter into a trade that would have $9M in salary over the next 2 years coming back when I knew there was a potential that I could just sign him for a minimum contract.

And there havent been reports that state the trade discussions concerning damon havent been productive. Actually on the contrary, the griz were actually seeking additional compensation for damon (which i guess contends that maybe the offers for damon were weak, but with beno's contract i dont see the kings being proposed the same offers). In fact, i would assume that beno's contract actually helps in facilitating trade discussions. And since the article names several teams (though im not sure the validity of the article) i would assume that there is a market for back up pgs.

You will likely want to revise your stance after reading this: Sources: Stoudamire, Grizzlies agree on buyout terms

I disagree. Beno is a young player who is still improving. He has far more value than an unproven pick. Yes, the Kings need to rebuild. But you don't rebuild by trading away young talent with proven potential for late picks that have proven nothing in the NBA.

I guess our contention lies where we see beno's "proven potential." My projection (and maybe im way off) is that beno could be a really solid backup pg. And at this stage of the kings' "rebuild," i dont see "backup pg" as a priority. I would rather see beno's spot go to a player, who while he may not be proven, has a higher ceiling.

There are several ideas about how best the kings can rebuild, the same way there are several perspectives on beno. My take is that beno has been great and has really saved the kings this season, but, he is not someone that teams will be climbing over themselves this offseason to sign (including the kings). To me the kings priority should be identifying a new core to build around, and if that means taking a flyer on a young guy who has not proved anything, then im all for it.

If you think the Kings won't pursue resigning him this summer, then you obviously don't appreciate Petire's opinion of him.

[Bibbinator]

I want people who want Artest/Bibby gone to be gone.. lol

[pillwenney]

I would say that 97% of 2nd round picks will never be as good as Beno.

Anyway, if we're going to rebuild, I'll at least try to come up with some original deals.

Bibby
Kenny

for

Cook
Arroyo
Garrity
Dooling
Evans
1st

(Arroyo, Garrity and Evans could be returned.)

Orlando
Bibby\Nelson\Arroyo
Bogans\Redick
Turkoglu\Evans
Lewis\Thomas\Augustine
Howard\Foyle\(Battie)


Rockets trade
Battier
Snyder
Francis
08 1st

Rockets get
Artest
SAR

Roster
Alston\James\Brooks
MgGrady\Head
Artest\Wells\Novak
Hayes\Scola\Landry
Yao\Mutombo\(SAR)

Denver trades
Chucky Atkins (could be waived and returned)
Von Wafer
Mike Wilks
08 1st

Denver gets
Shane Battier

Roster
Iverson\Carter\Atkins
Battier\Smith\Diawara
Anthony\Kleiza
Nene\Najera
Camby\Martin\Hunter

Kings trade
Ron Artest
SAR

for

Francis
Snyder
Atkins
Wafer
Wilks
08 1st from Houston
08 1st from Denver

(many could and would have to be waived from both trades)

Lineup
Udrih\Francis\Dooling
Martin\Douby\
Salmons\Garcia\Snyder
Moore\J. Williams\Cook
Miller\Hawes

Total salary next year: About $51million committed to 15 players (all the ones seen above except Dooling and Snyder, plus the 4 draft picks). Especially if we consolidate those picks, we could get our PF and PG of the future potentially, and then later in the year we could trade away our vets and basically be set for the future.

[ICMTM]

IMO Orlando could really use Kenny Thomas