What do the Kings Management Expect to get for Artest...

[Piranha]

First off, let me preface my post by stating I apologize for creating yet another Ron Artest trade thread. After reading through the dozens that already exist, I'm still a bit unclear on what the regular posters on your board think management would accept to trade Ron.

Before I post some scenarios and have some people hopefully address them... I want to clarify something. Ron can (and likely will) opt out of his contract at the end of the year, regardless of if (or who) gets traded to. Is that statement accurate?

Finally... trade scenarios. I don't think teams are going to offer the Kings promising young players for Ron, especially if he is just a rent a player like I believe in my above statement

I don't think the Kings are going to accept a high $ long term contract for Artest either since the talent that would likely accompany the contract would be nowhere near worthwhile. If you believe I'm wrong on either of those, let me know...

Ok... the scenarios...

Which of these do the Kings do?

1. Artest for all expirings and a mid 1st round pick.
2. Artest for all expirings and a late 1st round pick.
3. Artest for part expirings, part 2-3 year salary (average player for the salary), and a mid-late 1st rounder.

Do you think someone offers more for him than any of the above scenarios?

Would the Kings still trade him if the most they could get was one of the 3 above scenarios?

Again... sorry for cluttering up the board with another thread about him.

[Piranha]

And this is what brought me here...

I'm a casual observer of the Pistons board here. I really think Ron could be the piece that gets us over the top this year to win a championship. Many think there's no way in hell Ron will ever become a Piston because of what happened with the brawl... but I'm not so sure of that.

Would a package of expirings (Murray, Brezec, and Herrmann) + a late 1st round pick be enough?

I highly doubt the Pistons would break up their current starting 5 or trade away young prospects and contributors (Amir, Stuckey, Maxiell) in any realistic deal before the trade deadline.

However... from a Piston perspective... I don't see why they don't make the deal proposed above.

What do you think?

[Smills91]

How would we know? Why don't you go ask the Kings management yourself.

[Piranha]

Nice response

Should I rephrase the question to What do you think the Kings Management expect to get for Artest?

Again... looking at some other threads... I can't imagine a rebuilding team wanting Artest. The guy is extremely talented, but also a headcase. He has publicly expressed that he doesn't want to be part of a rebuilding situation too.

I also can't imagine a playoff caliber team trading away any major pieces for Artest. Everyone knows that if he stays on the Kings until the end of the year, he'll opt out and the Kings get nothing this summer.

I really didn't come here to instigate anything. I think the situation sucks from a Kings perspective. I don't see there being any way you get fair value for him.

[rpa]

Would a package of expirings (Murray, Brezec, and Herrmann) + a late 1st round pick be enough?

No. The expiring contracts don't do the Kings any good since Artest is an expiring himself (the Kings save exactly 0 dollars) so it makes the trade Artest for a late 1st. That's god awful value

[Piranha]

I agree.

The one trade I saw on the trade board that made any sense at all for both teams was the Dallas trade where you unload the Kenny Thomas contract and get expirings (and possibly a pick) in return.

There just aren't many teams with bad expiring contracts that would be willing to take on a bad longer term (Kenny's isn't very long... only 1 year right) contract that would send them over the luxury tax in the future.

Of course... Cuban doesn't really care about the luxury tax.

[chriswebb86]

First, Ron Ron can opt out this year, but if he does the team will have his Bird Rights. Because of this, that team will have an upper hand to resign him and if for some reason they dont, they will be able to get value through a sign and trade. While this lowers Artest's value slighty, I think too many posters on realgm freak out about giving young talent up because he can opt out. When they forget they still have the upper hand to resign him.

Second, Exp and a late 1st round pick to me is not of much value to the Kings. If thats all we can we would be better off holding onto him and using him in a sign and trade this summer. So, something of value needs to be added for the Kings to make a move. Something that I really like is a Barns, POB, and 1st from the Warriors. So something along those lines I think would get a trade done. So if you guys were willing to give up Amir I think a deal could be done really quickly, but I understand why you guys wouldnt want to move him. Another option for the Kings is to move Artest and K9 together. If this can be done, I think the Kings would be willing to take less value back.

[Piranha]

cwebb:

Thanks for your response.

First... while the team that acquires Artest would have his Bird Rights, that team would also have to be fairly certain that Ron Ron wants to stay there. Sure... they could always (potentially) match an offer made by a different team this summer when he opts out, but an unhappy Ron Ron is a destructive Ron Ron.

Second... isn't your proposed deal essentially the same as mine? Both of those Warriors are expiring. The Warriors pick will likely be around 10 slots earlier than the Pistons, so I understand the preference from that perspective. You'd also have the Bird Rights of those Warrior players, but neither has proven much at the NBA level. This probably sounds silly to most that haven't seen him play... but if you go and look at what Herrmann did with the Bobcats at the end of last season when he got playing time.... he has more potential than either Pietrus or POB imo.

[Piranha]

I do agree that dumping a bad contract along with Artest is probably the best way to go, assuming you can find a team that...

a. Has enough expiring salary coming back to make it work.

AND

b. Is in a winning situation that Ron Ron would want to go to.

Dallas seems to be the best fit based on a quick look at all the suitors.

[Smills91]

SOrry, I;ve just been frustrated by beung unindated by the "you'll only get half value at best for Ron Artest" type threads we see on these boards. IDIOTS.

[Bac2Basics]

I'd say there are 4 things that play factors in an Artest trade

First, is the moving of Kenny Thomas, I think that the attachment of KT to an Artest trade makes alot of sense for Sacramento. The combined contracts aren't so big as to make a realistic deal impossible.

Beyond that I think Sacramento expects to get at least 2 of the following three things

-- At least one first round pick
-- A player that has the potential to be in the long term plans of the Sacramento organization (this player would have to be either a PG or a post player as the Kings have good depth in the wing positions already)
-- Predominiately if not entirely expiring contracts.

[BMiller52]

I'd say there are 4 things that play factors in an Artest trade

First, is the moving of Kenny Thomas, I think that the attachment of KT to an Artest trade makes alot of sense for Sacramento. The combined contracts aren't so big as to make a realistic deal impossible.

Beyond that I think Sacramento expects to get at least 2 of the following three things

-- At least one first round pick
-- A player that has the potential to be in the long term plans of the Sacramento organization (this player would have to be either a PG or a post player as the Kings have good depth in the wing positions already)
-- Predominiately if not entirely expiring contracts.

We're not getting rid of KT in an Artest trade an expecting to come out with 15 million in expiring contracts, a pick, and a good young player. That's not reasonable. We probably have to choose 1 of the 3. If we want KT gone we'll have to buy him out.

[Bac2Basics]

-= original quote snipped =-
We're not getting rid of KT in an Artest trade an expecting to come out with 15 million in expiring contracts, a pick, and a good young player. That's not reasonable. We probably have to choose 1 of the 3. If we want KT gone we'll have to buy him out.

That may have been true before the Gasol & Shaq deals, but the rules have clearly changed as far as what teams are willing to do.

[BMiller52]

-= original quote snipped =-



That may have been true before the Gasol & Shaq deals, but the rules have clearly changed as far as what teams are willing to do.

All Memphis got for Gasol was Kwame, a PG prospect, and 2 late picks dude... Artest probably has LESS value.

[Smills91]

-= original quote snipped =-



All Memphis got for Gasol was Kwame, a PG prospect, and 2 late picks dude... Artest probably has LESS value.

And shaq probably had less value than that and he netted Shawn Marion

[chriswebb86]

cwebb:

Thanks for your response.

First... while the team that acquires Artest would have his Bird Rights, that team would also have to be fairly certain that Ron Ron wants to stay there. Sure... they could always (potentially) match an offer made by a different team this summer when he opts out, but an unhappy Ron Ron is a destructive Ron Ron.

Second... isn't your proposed deal essentially the same as mine? Both of those Warriors are expiring. The Warriors pick will likely be around 10 slots earlier than the Pistons, so I understand the preference from that perspective. You'd also have the Bird Rights of those Warrior players, but neither has proven much at the NBA level. This probably sounds silly to most that haven't seen him play... but if you go and look at what Herrmann did with the Bobcats at the end of last season when he got playing time.... he has more potential than either Pietrus or POB imo.

Yeah I understand what you are saying. Ron has made it known that he wants to play for a contender. Because I really only see contenders going after him I dont think him not wanting to play there is as big.

Well, IMO POB needs to get playing time before we can state that he is a bust. Because this I would love to let him get playing time here and see where it goes. I think he has a shoot at being a really solid big man and because that I think the Warriors deal is slight better then yours because of that an also because of the pick being 10 mid teens to early 20's.

[BMiller52]

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And shaq probably had less value than that and he netted Shawn Marion

True, you just never know with trades though. GMs around the league value players differently than their colleagues(however the hell you spell it).

[SacTown Kings]

First off, let me preface my post by stating I apologize for creating yet another Ron Artest trade thread. After reading through the dozens that already exist, I'm still a bit unclear on what the regular posters on your board think management would accept to trade Ron.

Before I post some scenarios and have some people hopefully address them... I want to clarify something. Ron can (and likely will) opt out of his contract at the end of the year, regardless of if (or who) gets traded to. Is that statement accurate?

Finally... trade scenarios. I don't think teams are going to offer the Kings promising young players for Ron, especially if he is just a rent a player like I believe in my above statement

I don't think the Kings are going to accept a high $ long term contract for Artest either since the talent that would likely accompany the contract would be nowhere near worthwhile. If you believe I'm wrong on either of those, let me know...

Ok... the scenarios...

The way I see it :

1) Kings want to dump Kenny with Artest

2) If nobody takes on Kenny then Kings will hold out for a young player WITH potential, some expirings and a 1st (probably will take a late 1st).

3) If neither of these happen then I am sure Petrie will just hold onto Ron and either he walks and we get nothing (which isn't bad since he is not in our long term plans and it does shed some salary), or Petrie uses him in a sign and trade, which is more likely to happen. This is because none of the teams that Ron wants or want him can flat out sign him unless Ron takes the MLE. And even if he says he will take the MLE I wont believe it until it happens. Players always say it isn't about the money but for 99% of them it always does end up being about the money. This is Ron's last big payday, he ain't taking the MLE.

I think if teams could get Ron for less than what I posted then it would of been done by now. If I am not mistaken Petrie has already shot down Cle, Mia, and a Maggette trade. So it appears teams have to give us more value than those trades.

[pillwenney]

And this is what brought me here...

I'm a casual observer of the Pistons board here. I really think Ron could be the piece that gets us over the top this year to win a championship. Many think there's no way in hell Ron will ever become a Piston because of what happened with the brawl... but I'm not so sure of that.

Would a package of expirings (Murray, Brezec, and Herrmann) + a late 1st round pick be enough?

I highly doubt the Pistons would break up their current starting 5 or trade away young prospects and contributors (Amir, Stuckey, Maxiell) in any realistic deal before the trade deadline.

However... from a Piston perspective... I don't see why they don't make the deal proposed above.

What do you think?

This is the key right here. The Pistons could feel this way. So could Orlando, Toronto, Denver, Houston, Dallas, San Antonio, GS, and possibly more teams. This is why I think we'll get good value for Ron--especially if a western team acquires Kidd. The ante has been upped. If teams want to legitimately contend this year, they will need to upgrade their roster. If they offer us a weak package--big deal. We don't need a late 1st or a marginal prospect. But for a lot of teams if they want to contend this year, Artest might be their only option.

And I'll say it again and again. Ron is not a rental. If we trade him to a good team, the chances are very good that he'll be happy enough to not bolt elsewhere to get much less money.

[Bac2Basics]

-= original quote snipped =-
This is the key right here. The Pistons could feel this way. So could Orlando, Toronto, Denver, Houston, Dallas, San Antonio, GS, and possibly more teams. This is why I think we'll get good value for Ron--especially if a western team acquires Kidd. The ante has been upped. If teams want to legitimately contend this year, they will need to upgrade their roster. If they offer us a weak package--big deal. We don't need a late 1st or a marginal prospect. But for a lot of teams if they want to contend this year, Artest might be their only option.

And I'll say it again and again. Ron is not a rental. If we trade him to a good team, the chances are very good that he'll be happy enough to not bolt elsewhere to get much less money.

QFT