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Post#201 » by King Baller » Mon Feb 18, 2008 11:29 pm

Smills91 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

I'm not saying how they value him, I'm saying the way they're creating a roster space is by dumping Lue to a contender for a TPE/2nd rounder. That's all.

"Waiving" thomas is pointless, buying him out is near pointless...getting his contract off the books is what's needed and that can only be accomplished by trading him for an expirings OR having HIM exercise his ETO (fat chance).


You know there is one other option with KT. Give the man some playing time. Heck even start the guy. For all we know he might start playing better. At this point I don't see what the Kings have to lose.

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Post#202 » by dozencousins » Tue Feb 19, 2008 12:20 am

the point to not play kenny thomas is simple he has an early termination clause in his contract were he can opt out of this year though i dont think he will take it if he is that miserable not playing he may at least accept a buyout at the seasons end if we cant trade him !

at this point you play your youth and give them a hard look to see what they can do for us for next year not to mention anybody we keep from doing trades !
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Post#203 » by SadKingsFan » Tue Feb 19, 2008 3:59 am

Ugh, finally posting about this.

I love mike and i will definitely miss him but i just dont feel as sad as i did when our other beloved kings left. Obviously this deal gives us more financial flexibility and really helps us out in the upcoming draft as well so im pretty happy. Excited to see shelden willams as well. Thanks to everyone who posted info on his game because i didnt know much about him.
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Post#204 » by deNIEd » Tue Feb 19, 2008 4:31 am

Smills91 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

I'm not saying how they value him, I'm saying the way they're creating a roster space is by dumping Lue to a contender for a TPE/2nd rounder. That's all.

"Waiving" thomas is pointless, buying him out is near pointless...getting his contract off the books is what's needed and that can only be accomplished by trading him for an expirings OR having HIM exercise his ETO (fat chance).


Why?

I never truly understood buying out a player.
Say Thomas is making 8 mil, and our team salary is 60 mil. If we bought him out, we would still pay him the 8 mil, but our team salary would be 52 mil correct?
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Post#205 » by SactownHrtBrks8 » Tue Feb 19, 2008 4:33 am

deNIEd wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



Why?

I never truly understood buying out a player.
Say Thomas is making 8 mil, and our team salary is 60 mil. If we bought him out, we would still pay him the 8 mil, but our team salary would be 52 mil correct?


no buying someone out counts against your cap
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Post#206 » by pillwenney » Tue Feb 19, 2008 4:34 am

deNIEd wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



Why?

I never truly understood buying out a player.
Say Thomas is making 8 mil, and our team salary is 60 mil. If we bought him out, we would still pay him the 8 mil, but our team salary would be 52 mil correct?


No. The only benefit to buying a guy out is that the player will often agree to take a little less per year. But it still counts against one's cap just the same, only the contract then can't be traded. For an example look at Foyle in GS. Only don't expect a buyout that nice. Foyle was really easy on them.
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Post#207 » by ICMTM » Tue Feb 19, 2008 5:39 am

I was about to get rid of my tix to the game on Wednesday...
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Post#208 » by BMiller52 » Tue Feb 19, 2008 8:43 am

Smills91 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

I'm not saying how they value him, I'm saying the way they're creating a roster space is by dumping Lue to a contender for a TPE/2nd rounder. That's all.

"Waiving" thomas is pointless, buying him out is near pointless...getting his contract off the books is what's needed and that can only be accomplished by trading him for an expirings OR having HIM exercise his ETO (fat chance).


If you buy a guy out you DO get some cap space IIRC, what you actually paid them counts against your cap. From what I heard if we bought him out for half his contract, the length of the contract would still be the same, but that would count against our cap instead of the whole thing. I could be wrong but I don't think I am.
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Post#209 » by pillwenney » Tue Feb 19, 2008 9:31 am

BMiller52 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



If you buy a guy out you DO get some cap space IIRC, what you actually paid them counts against your cap. From what I heard if we bought him out for half his contract, the length of the contract would still be the same, but that would count against our cap instead of the whole thing. I could be wrong but I don't think I am.


The problem with that is that pretty much nobody gets bought out for half of their contract.
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Post#210 » by BMiller52 » Tue Feb 19, 2008 9:39 am

mitchweber wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



The problem with that is that pretty much nobody gets bought out for half of their contract.


I dunno I think Kenny might take like 3/5 or something. If we make his situation miserable enough and let him know he'll never get to play again if he stays, he just might go for it. Maybe we can get some type of exception for Shareef, cuz IMO his knees are shot and he's done. Both guys are irrelevant now especially(although they were before too) with Mikki and the arrival of SWill.
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Post#211 » by Smills91 » Tue Feb 19, 2008 6:37 pm

Just to put it into perspective BMiller, Chris Webber was bought out for a whopping 2 million dollars of the remaining 20+ million left on his 1.5 year deal. That's less than 10%. That's typical. You're kidding yourself if you think you'll gain any significant cap space. We're better off trying to package him with Ron, really.
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Post#212 » by ICMTM » Tue Feb 19, 2008 6:59 pm

Smills91 wrote:Just to put it into perspective BMiller, Chris Webber was bought out for a whopping 2 million dollars of the remaining 20+ million left on his 1.5 year deal. That's less than 10%. That's typical. You're kidding yourself if you think you'll gain any significant cap space. We're better off trying to package him with Ron, really.


We wouldn't be having this discussion if we would have kept Webber in the 1st place. Now I know some of you noobs are going to say how can you say that AFTER the fact...but can I get a witness here....I've had to refrain myself from repeating it.

If we kept Webber:

No Thomas
No SAR
No Moore

$20+ Million expiring this season.

I blame Peja Stojakovic.
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Post#213 » by Ballings7 » Tue Feb 19, 2008 8:06 pm

There should of been no Moore, anyway. Just play Kenny, Ron, Justin/Shelden at the four.

If another veteran PF/C was really needed, get somebody cheaper. And, if something like this comes up in the future, it should be handled better.

The Moore signing is especially strange because there was no set situation where KT or SAR (prior to season) were going to be moved.
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Post#214 » by deNIEd » Tue Feb 19, 2008 8:32 pm

mitchweber wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



No. The only benefit to buying a guy out is that the player will often agree to take a little less per year. But it still counts against one's cap just the same, only the contract then can't be traded. For an example look at Foyle in GS. Only don't expect a buyout that nice. Foyle was really easy on them.


Really?!!

Wow, buying out players is way overrated then
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Post#215 » by BMiller52 » Wed Feb 20, 2008 2:39 am

ICMTM wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



We wouldn't be having this discussion if we would have kept Webber in the 1st place. Now I know some of you noobs are going to say how can you say that AFTER the fact...but can I get a witness here....I've had to refrain myself from repeating it.

If we kept Webber:

No Thomas
No SAR
No Moore

$20+ Million expiring this season.

I blame Peja Stojakovic.


I've been saying this exact thing since Feb 2005. Peja screwed this team over BADLY. Too bad we didn't make the Ron trade when we had Webb. Keep Chris and no SAR+Moore=10 million off our cap, as well as his contract expiring this year so no KT=8 million more off the cap. Peja is still costing us 18 mill in cap space.

We also might have won a playoff series or 2 :-?
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Post#216 » by Twinkie defense » Wed Feb 20, 2008 11:01 am

bdgking wrote:i would give a team a 2nd round pick and thomas just to unload his sorry @ss and take on his salary and get nothing in return just to free the roster spot and save cap space !


It would certainly be nice for the Kings if they could package KT's bad contract with Artest or Miller. But with the luxury tax, teams are VERY hesitant to take on bad contracts these days. Sacramento might have to give up a lot more than Miller or Artest to move KT, and then, is it worth it?

Phoenix had to send two first round picks along with the other KT in order to get Seattle to take on his contract... and his contract was expiring (but granted Phoenix's first rounders are worth less to them than most teams' firsts are worth to those teams).

Players really have the hammer with guaranteed contracts... that money is GUARANTEED. Doesn't matter if they suck or blow out a knee in the first year of a multi-year contract and never play again.

So that's why teams buy players out. Sure they still have to pay millions, but if you have a guy whose contract is hard to move, you don't want him on the team, why keep him around as a malcontent when you can send him away, gain a roster spot, and save a few million in the bargain?

Kings want a fresh start next season. Not a lot of reason to keep KT around, and I still think it's very unlikely another team wants him, either. Might as well offer him a buyout, save a few million, and gain a roster spot. In fact if he were bought out already, you coulda kept Justin Williams.

There's a lot of incentive these days for teams to be really careful about the contracts they're handing out. Especially to their own free agents. Everyone's wary of the tax, teams are afraid to bid on other teams' free agents because their cap space gets held up for a week and the original team can then just match. And the team with a players rights can, instead of just giving in to an agent's demands, can say "either take this, or come back to us when/if you've got a better offer."
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Post#217 » by Smills91 » Wed Feb 20, 2008 12:22 pm

[quote="jrhester"][/quote]Buying out plays NOT in their expiring year is stupid. You lose the ability to trade that contract if the opportunity ever arises.

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