Raptors Fan Here..

[Live Free]

hey guys the raps are in desperate need for a wing who can rebound, score, and bring instant toughness.. and first name that pops up is Artest. So i just wanna know if he's really matured with the time he spent with the kings and would you guys like to see him go?

[Smills91]

hey guys the raps are in desperate need for a wing who can rebound, score, and bring instant toughness.. and first name that pops up is Artest. So i just wanna know if he's really matured with the time he spent with the kings and would you guys like to see him go?

I can understand the trade Artest sentiment, but I'd RATHER keep him unless the value is too good to pass up. If it's something like an injury prone TJ Ford for Artest swap, I'd pass. If it included a 1st round pick and prospect then I'd consider it. But overall, Ron makes the Kings a legitimate threat to win on any given night, without him we're always destined to lose at this point.

[KM44]

I would LOVE to see artest go. I really feel like it is way too crowded at the SF position, and Artest doens't fit into what we need. It would probably take a TJ or Calderon/Grahm and a pick (1st would require us to give something up, or just a straight up second). That would probably get done. I would do it in a heartbeat, but Theus likes him, so who knows

[Smills91]

I would LOVE to see artest go. I really feel like it is way too crowded at the SF position, and Artest doens't fit into what we need. It would probably take a TJ or Calderon/Grahm and a pick (1st would require us to give something up, or just a straight up second). That would probably get done. I would do it in a heartbeat, but Theus likes him, so who knows

You my friend are WAY off. WAYYYYYY off.

[Vlade4life]

hey guys the raps are in desperate need for a wing who can rebound, score, and bring instant toughness.. and first name that pops up is Artest. So i just wanna know if he's really matured with the time he spent with the kings and would you guys like to see him go?

I can only speak for myself, but I'd love to see him go. He's been on better behavior in the last year, but he's still the same person; he still does pretty much whatever he feels like on the court and thinks he's Kobe Bryant or something. I'd take a package with the 17th pick.

[BMiller52]

-= original quote snipped =-



I can understand the trade Artest sentiment, but I'd RATHER keep him unless the value is too good to pass up. If it's something like an injury prone TJ Ford for Artest swap, I'd pass. If it included a 1st round pick and prospect then I'd consider it. But overall, Ron makes the Kings a legitimate threat to win on any given night, without him we're always destined to lose at this point.

Co-signed.

[longfellow44]

I would like to trade him for Ford and the #17th pick because I want to complete the rebuild for the kings. Artest has matured a lot here but is still not the smartest person when he's on his own. He's a great locker room guy and will win you a ton of games and he's great for young developing players he's been key in really helping Garcia develop over the last 2 years.

The only thing that keeps Artests value as low as Ford and #17 is how people percieve him in the League. Most people still see him as just a trouble maker with tons of baggage but he's really improved a lot on that here.

[KingInExile]

I would be interested in Artest for Bosh. Other than that...there would have to be some other damn good incentives for me to move him in a deal with Toronto.

[Ballings7]

I'll keep Ron Artest over TJ Ford, thank you

And yeah, he has become better overall since the trade, if you've payed attention enough, it's noticable and consistent.

[sackings916]

A deal centered around Artest and Calderon would be good for both teams IMO.

[Smills91]

A deal centered around Artest and Calderon would be good for both teams IMO.

:nod: add 09 pick w.jose and we got a deal IMO

[Bac2Basics]

I think a Ford+ deal could get Artest, the question is what the + should be.

#17 should definitely work.

A Kenny Thomas for an expiring would also be a popular option in my opinion.

I can see the Kings adding some combination of Quincy Douby and/or 2nd round pick depending on the quality of the +.

[rpa]

The problem with trading Artest for Ford (or even Calderon for that matter) is that it really ends up a trade of:

Artest & Udrih for Ford or Calderon (and sweetener I'd assume).

I think it's highly doubtful that Udrih resigns here if he doesn't think he's going to get the majority of the minutes at PG. Just look at how poorly he played off the bench (though, there could be another reason for that since it seems like to big of a coincidence that Salmons was the exact same way). If we drafted a PG at 12 I could see him staying since the chance that we immediately thrust a late lotto pick into the starting lineup is really outside the realm of reality.

Anyways, while I'm not a huge fan of Beno I think people need to take into account that trading for a vet PG means we're giving up on Beno in 1 way or another and he's an asset with a decent amount of value.

However, with all that said, I think that Kings SHOULD definitely trade Artest. 2 very simple reasons why:

#1: Buy low, sell high. The Kings bought when Artest's value was in the gutter. It's unlikely that Artest's value gets any higher than this summer (assuming he doesn't opt out). A team has him for an entire year, he's been problem-free for over a year now, and he's playing great basketball. This isn't the time to get greedy and think "wow Artest is playing great, he could be our savior". This is the time to think "wow, Artest's value is high, let's trade him for some good rebuilding pieces"
#2: If there's anything (and I do mean ANYTHING) that Petrie has proven in his time here it's that he can draft swingmen as good or better than anyone in the league. This is the guy who pulled Martin with a late 1st, Garcia with a mid-late 1st, Turkoglu with a mid 1st, & Peja with a late lottery pick. Other than Abdul-Wahad he's done great on drafting swingmen from just about every draft position. I'd trade Artest and have faith in Petrie to pull another good SG/SF out of the draft.

[sackings916]

-= original quote snipped =-

add 09 pick w.jose and we got a deal IMO

Ehh..i think Jose is fair value for Artest. Remember while Artest may be the better play PGs generally hold more value, and Calderon is a young PG who can shoot efficiently and more importantly he's a pass first, playmaking PG who makes very little mistakes. His defense is a concern though.

If we did a straight up Artest for Calderon(SnT) trade this summer you could probably say we have 3/5 future starters with Calderon/Kmart/Hawes locked up.

Miller/Hawes
Moore/Williams/SAR
Salmons/Garcia
Martin/Garcia
Calderon/Douby

Another variation to the trade could be something like Artest/Garcia/Thomas for Calderon and expiring contracts of Parker and Garbajosa.

I think Calderon would improve Kmart and make things easier for him as well. And Calderon/Kmart/Salmons/Moore/Miller is a pretty good offensive team, not that good defensively though.

[pillwenney]

The problem with trading Artest for Ford (or even Calderon for that matter) is that it really ends up a trade of:

Artest & Udrih for Ford or Calderon (and sweetener I'd assume).

I think it's highly doubtful that Udrih resigns here if he doesn't think he's going to get the majority of the minutes at PG. Just look at how poorly he played off the bench (though, there could be another reason for that since it seems like to big of a coincidence that Salmons was the exact same way). If we drafted a PG at 12 I could see him staying since the chance that we immediately thrust a late lotto pick into the starting lineup is really outside the realm of reality.

Anyways, while I'm not a huge fan of Beno I think people need to take into account that trading for a vet PG means we're giving up on Beno in 1 way or another and he's an asset with a decent amount of value.



However, with all that said, I think that Kings SHOULD definitely trade Artest. 2 very simple reasons why:

#1: Buy low, sell high. The Kings bought when Artest's value was in the gutter. It's unlikely that Artest's value gets any higher than this summer (assuming he doesn't opt out). A team has him for an entire year, he's been problem-free for over a year now, and he's playing great basketball. This isn't the time to get greedy and think "wow Artest is playing great, he could be our savior". This is the time to think "wow, Artest's value is high, let's trade him for some good rebuilding pieces"
#2: If there's anything (and I do mean ANYTHING) that Petrie has proven in his time here it's that he can draft swingmen as good or better than anyone in the league. This is the guy who pulled Martin with a late 1st, Garcia with a mid-late 1st, Turkoglu with a mid 1st, & Peja with a late lottery pick. Other than Abdul-Wahad he's done great on drafting swingmen from just about every draft position. I'd trade Artest and have faith in Petrie to pull another good SG/SF out of the draft.

You definitely bring up some good points. A couple of things to consider:

1) There's a real risk that we'll lose Beno anyway. He's not worth more than the MLE (fortunately since nobody could offer more than that anyway), and the FA market won't exactly be hopping this year, so any team that needs a PG may potentially go after him.

2) I don't know about anybody else here, but I don't really remember Beno playing particularly poorly off the bench.

3) I just think it's never right to say that we should "definitely trade" anybody. When you approach with that attitude, you usually don't get fair value unless you run into a dumb GM.

[Smills91]

The problem with trading Artest for Ford (or even Calderon for that matter) is that it really ends up a trade of:

Artest & Udrih for Ford or Calderon (and sweetener I'd assume).

I think it's highly doubtful that Udrih resigns here if he doesn't think he's going to get the majority of the minutes at PG. Just look at how poorly he played off the bench (though, there could be another reason for that since it seems like to big of a coincidence that Salmons was the exact same way). If we drafted a PG at 12 I could see him staying since the chance that we immediately thrust a late lotto pick into the starting lineup is really outside the realm of reality.

Anyways, while I'm not a huge fan of Beno I think people need to take into account that trading for a vet PG means we're giving up on Beno in 1 way or another and he's an asset with a decent amount of value.

However, with all that said, I think that Kings SHOULD definitely trade Artest. 2 very simple reasons why:

#1: Buy low, sell high. The Kings bought when Artest's value was in the gutter. It's unlikely that Artest's value gets any higher than this summer (assuming he doesn't opt out). A team has him for an entire year, he's been problem-free for over a year now, and he's playing great basketball. This isn't the time to get greedy and think "wow Artest is playing great, he could be our savior". This is the time to think "wow, Artest's value is high, let's trade him for some good rebuilding pieces"
#2: If there's anything (and I do mean ANYTHING) that Petrie has proven in his time here it's that he can draft swingmen as good or better than anyone in the league. This is the guy who pulled Martin with a late 1st, Garcia with a mid-late 1st, Turkoglu with a mid 1st, & Peja with a late lottery pick. Other than Abdul-Wahad he's done great on drafting swingmen from just about every draft position. I'd trade Artest and have faith in Petrie to pull another good SG/SF out of the draft.

Ehhh...for instance a Jose SnT + 09 first basically delays trading Ron. We re-sign Beno FIRST and then move Ron for Calderon shortly thereafter. It's a business and Beno knows that. So I don't see moving Ron as moving Beno as well, unless it happens on draft night. And as is, if no trades are made, Petrie's taking a PG in the draft. Is Beno not going to re-sign if we draft a PG? I doubt it. I think if the money's right, he'll re-sign because he can still be the starting PG even if we add depth to that position.

So now the dilemma is, who do you trade Ron for? you don't want to go for a PG, that leaves PF/C types. I don't see many worth moving Ron for honestly.

[RoyalCourtJestr]

Resigned Jose + Raptors 09 1st for Artest + Douby works for me. Does Toronto have a 08 1st?

[rpa]

1) There's a real risk that we'll lose Beno anyway. He's not worth more than the MLE (fortunately since nobody could offer more than that anyway), and the FA market won't exactly be hopping this year, so any team that needs a PG may potentially go after him.

I think Beno's going to stay w/ the Kings if he's going to be the starter but I also think that if he was going to leave it would be for more money (but no team out there will offer him a contract bigger than the MLE) AND to be the starter elsewhere. I there there are a few teams that he could go [and be the starting PG] but a number of them have young PGs they're trying to develop (e.g. Foye @ Minnesota).

2) I don't know about anybody else here, but I don't really remember Beno playing particularly poorly off the bench.

As a starter: 14.4/5/3.5 (47%/40%/86%) in 35mpg
Off the bench: 7.1/1.8/2.7 (39%/30%/80%) in 20mpg

His numbers fell dramatically across the board (except rebounds)

3) I just think it's never right to say that we should "definitely trade" anybody. When you approach with that attitude, you usually don't get fair value unless you run into a dumb GM.

True but my point is that the Kings should be actively looking to trade Artest as opposed to thinking that he's going to be here longterm &/or be the player (along w/ Martin) that they want to build a team around.

[rpa]

Ehhh...for instance a Jose SnT + 09 first basically delays trading Ron. We re-sign Beno FIRST and then move Ron for Calderon shortly thereafter. It's a business and Beno knows that. So I don't see moving Ron as moving Beno as well, unless it happens on draft night. And as is, if no trades are made, Petrie's taking a PG in the draft. Is Beno not going to re-sign if we draft a PG? I doubt it. I think if the money's right, he'll re-sign because he can still be the starting PG even if we add depth to that position.

Could do that but I think that may make resigning Beno a waste of money. I think he's going to want some kind of word that he'll be our starting PG next year when he resigns and then making a move for Calderon (or Ford) could make him pout. Most likely case is he plays just as badly as he did off the bench last year and we're stuck with a young PG on an MLE contract that has little value.

So now the dilemma is, who do you trade Ron for? you don't want to go for a PG, that leaves PF/C types. I don't see many worth moving Ron for honestly.

Well, there aren't really any young, talented but troubled players out there that the Kings could move Artest for (like a Webber type of trade) so I think the Kings should attempt to use Artest for 1 of 2 things (maybe both in the best case scenario):
1) Procure draft picks with the expectation that Petrie can pull a good big man or a good PG (in this way we put a guy BEHIND Beno to develop his skills)
2) Use Artest as a way to rid ourselves of the longterm contracts of Kenny Thomas & Shareef with the expectation that we may be able to sign a young, talented PF.

[dozencousins]

Personally i cant see artest being dealt to toronto !
That said if we were doing a deal with toronto i would deal artest and k9
for the 17th pick , nesterovich (expiring) and a solid filler or additional expiring this would get k9 off the books a year early and more cap flexible !

If that did not work my theory on artest is this based only if the kings organization is trying to deal him now and only based on that !

My Theory is this : the celtics traded there # 1 draft pick to seatlle so they could get ray allen though i dont see boston winning the title this year they got allen and later got garnett for the soul purpose of winning the title now !

If petrie were inclined we could offer artest & our later pick to say the heat if they got the 1 or 2 pick getting us rose or beasly as an example if they had wade,marion and artest and got a couple of solid role players that may put them back on top again who know's !
The same scenerio could apply to other teams that may value artest more than their pick !

Finally if we got the 12th pick as it may very well happen and no trades were able to be made for us to move up i would seriously consider trading it to a team who basically sucks right now for their 1st pick next year hoping that pick can turn into a top 1-3 pick !
The logic in that is simply this we are going to have alot more cap money allowing a great chance to sign 1 or 2 elite free agents unless we are lucky enough to trade off k9 & reef early ! we will have a greater chance for greater success with a player who we can land with a top 1-3 pick giving us a greater chance at winning title much sooner !
I doubt if we got the 12 pick that there is any 1 player who will make us far better that would be available !

Kings 4 Life !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!