How good is Artest?

KM44 · Post #1 » by **KM44** » Fri May 9, 2008 2:03 am

I had a nice long argument with some friends about where artest is ranked as a SF in the NBA. Some said top 5, I said top 15. Where would you rank him.

Here's my analysis: Artest is a guy with a bad reputation for being nuts, but he is solid on the court. He is good defensively when it comes to quick hands for blocks and steals, but is WAY overrated on his perimeter defense. Offensively, he's a medicre shooter with a tendancy to try to do to much. He is one of the best drivers in the league for his size and he can be clutch. He is a pretty good leader as well. So I would say that he is maybe the 12th best in the league, thoughts?

PaKwAn · Post #2 » by **PaKwAn** » Fri May 9, 2008 2:44 am

I dont know where i would rank him but he is one of the best two way players in the league and if i where to rank him it would be changing due to the fact that ron if he puts his mind into it would definitely be a better player. But as you see in his game this season when the offensive minded ron takes over it definitely makes his game and the team play ugly (ex:when against kobe) but when he concentrates on his D first the game comes easy to him without forcing anything (ex: against roy) So if a well concentrated ron is playing then he sure is one of the best sf's in the game but if the opposite of it happens then goodluck in watching that type of ron jack shots up...

sackings916 · Post #3 » by **sackings916** » Fri May 9, 2008 3:55 am

KM44 wrote:I had a nice long argument with some friends about where artest is ranked as a SF in the NBA. Some said top 5, I said top 15. Where would you rank him.

Here's my analysis: Artest is a guy with a bad reputation for being nuts, but he is solid on the court. He is good defensively when it comes to quick hands for blocks and steals, but is WAY overrated on his perimeter defense. Offensively, he's a medicre shooter with a tendancy to try to do to much. He is one of the best drivers in the league for his size and he can be clutch. He is a pretty good leader as well. So I would say that he is maybe the 12th best in the league, thoughts?

Artest has been a completely different player on offense for the last 2 seasons( or 1.5 seasons, ever since they changed back to the original basketballs)

You have him at 12 so who are the 11 small forwards that are better than him? Honestly outside of LeBron and Melo there are no small forwards head and shoulders better than Artest, and that includes Butler and Pierce. Offensively Artest is an efficient 20 points a night, he's very efficient at the 3 at 38%, and is a better defender than any SF in the league. I have him 3rd, MAYBE 4th but I think Pierce has regressed a little.

Artest's reputation and overblown bad shot selection are really unfounded IMO, and are just the opinions of people who dont know any better and haven't been paying attention to Artest for the last 2 years.
1.LBJ
2.Melo
3.Artest
4.Pierce
5.Butler

RoyalCourtJestr · Post #4 » by **RoyalCourtJestr** » Fri May 9, 2008 4:38 am

I will say that Ron is a top 5 SF. I don't like his shot selection at times, but he is a top defender with top offense skills, and i know I underrate him, so.

Cruel_Ruin · Post #5 » by **Cruel_Ruin** » Fri May 9, 2008 4:52 am

1. LBJ
2. Pierce
3. Melo
4. Butler
5. Artest

Post #6 » by **ICMTM** » Fri May 9, 2008 5:19 am

I think Artest is better than Melo. Melo can score, but does he change the game like Artest does? I know that's up for debate, but Ron can change the game at either end of the floor.

I think best player all to often gets confused with best scorer. When Artest learns (and I think he's turning the corner on this anyway) how to get others involved he will be great!

BMiller52 · Post #7 » by **BMiller52** » Fri May 9, 2008 5:37 am

Artest is top 5 no question. Maybe top 3. He's right below LeBron and right there with Melo, Pierce, and TMac.

Post #8 » by **pillwenney** » Fri May 9, 2008 6:14 am

Yeah, right now, I really would say he might be better than Melo. LBJ is obviously 1st. After that, it's really debatable. But nobody should underrate Butler. The guy was absolutely studly this year.

Crimson King · Post #9 » by **Crimson King** » Fri May 9, 2008 7:52 am

Better than Artest:
LeBron James
Paul Pierce
Caron Butler
Shawn Marion
Carmelo Anthony

About the same level:
Richard Jefferson
Tayshaun Prince
Gerald Wallace
Hedo Turkoglu
Lamar Odom
Josh Howard

Could be better than Artest, but right now aren't:
Luol Deng
Danny Granger
Marvin Williams
Rudy Gay

SacKingZZZ · Post #10 » by **SacKingZZZ** » Fri May 9, 2008 8:07 am

Talent for talent I don't think Butler can touch Ron.

I remember people saying that all around he may be one of the best, and that if this was a one on one league he would beat just about anybody and everybody. I didn't get it until I really got to see him play and it may be true. With his combination of strength, hand eye coordination, and skill I can't see any one player being able to both stop him and score on him effectively. Put a big guy on him, he'll take him outside. Put a small guy on him and he'll bash him into the ground. Put him on anybody and he'll just take the ball away.

That being said, this is a team sport and he isn't that same player in this environment. But, stick him and just about any other guy on the streets in 1 on 1, I'm picking Ron 10 times out of 10.

_SRV_ · Post #11 » by **_SRV_** » Fri May 9, 2008 11:59 am

Top 5, LBJ and Pierce are clearly ahead and he's in the same mold with Butler and Melo, no other SF is better unless you consider McGrady SF.

Smills91 · Post #12 » by **Smills91** » Fri May 9, 2008 12:12 pm

Ron's top 3 at Sf.

KM44 · Post #13 » by **KM44** » Fri May 9, 2008 3:04 pm

well I would have to agree with zar, his post saying that LBJ, Melo, Butler, Tmac and marion are better. I would also have to go with pierce, Jefferson, Prince, Odom, Howard, and Deng above Artest. I do not think that any other team in the NBA would put Artest in the top five.

Post #14 » by **ICMTM** » Fri May 9, 2008 6:07 pm

zar wrote:Better than Artest:
LeBron James
Paul Pierce
Caron Butler
Shawn Marion
Carmelo Anthony

About the same level:
Richard Jefferson
Tayshaun Prince
Gerald Wallace
Hedo Turkoglu
Lamar Odom
Josh Howard

Could be better than Artest, but right now aren't:
Luol Deng
Danny Granger
Marvin Williams
Rudy Gay

I don't know what the resolution on your tv set is like, but I've seen these guys play in person SEVERAL times, and other than Josh Howard on his best night none are in the same class as Ron. Hedo, Wallace, and Richardson...please! Watch a game in person and you can see how Ron's speed, power, and balance are matched by only Lebron James (which I still don't think he's as strong, but is quicker). Seriously once Artest learns how to include people (for his own good AND for the good of others) he's going to be hard to stop. He already gets doubles in the post.

sackings916 · Post #15 » by **sackings916** » Fri May 9, 2008 7:14 pm

well I would have to agree with zar, his post saying that LBJ, Melo, Butler, Tmac and marion are better. I would also have to go with pierce, Jefferson, Prince, Odom, Howard, and Deng above Artest. I do not think that any other team in the NBA would put Artest in the top five.

Thats ridiculous. Those guys arent even close to doing what Artest does on the court. Jefferson,Pierce,Butler are arguable, but Artest had a better year than they did last season. Marion is one of the most overrated players in the league, he's not better than Artest. Marion needs shots created for him, while Artest can create shots for himself and others. Tmac is a SG also.

Cruel_Ruin · Post #16 » by **Cruel_Ruin** » Fri May 9, 2008 7:15 pm

I don't think Ron is better than Melo, he's not on that level. Butler it's debateable, but I'd take Caron. Ron is definitely better than Marion, Hedo, Wallace and Jefferson.

Post #17 » by **ICMTM** » Fri May 9, 2008 8:03 pm

Offensively Ron is not, but factor in the the impact Artest has on both ends of the floor, and the matador D Anthony plays is where you have the debate. I'm making my assessment on overall impact on a game and not athletic ability or scoring ability.

Post #18 » by **pillwenney** » Fri May 9, 2008 8:26 pm

Yeah, looking at the lists, I think I'd place him maybe like tied for 3rd with Butler...maybe 4th. But I'd say Lebron is the only person that is really clearly ahead of anyone.

Another thing with Melo is that when you look at his stats, you have to remember that the Nuggets play at an absolutely frenetic pace, which inflates Melo's stats. Not saying that he's not a step above Ron with scoring--he is, but the rebounding disparity isn't nearly as big as it looks. Right now, I think I would definitely go with Ron.

Smills91 · Post #19 » by **Smills91** » Sat May 10, 2008 12:08 am

ICMTM wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

I don't know what the resolution on your tv set is like, but I've seen these guys play in person SEVERAL times, and other than Josh Howard on his best night none are in the same class as Ron. Hedo, Wallace, and Richardson...please! Watch a game in person and you can see how Ron's speed, power, and balance are matched by only Lebron James (which I still don't think he's as strong, but is quicker). Seriously once Artest learns how to include people (for his own good AND for the good of others) he's going to be hard to stop. He already gets doubles in the post.

QFT

KM44 · Post #20 » by **KM44** » Sat May 10, 2008 2:58 am

well it is evident that we have some differing opinions, and I am okay with that. I really don't understand why i hate artest so much, but i just feel like he is a selfish, overstepping, overrated player that we place soooo much relience on. That is why we suck so badly right now, we think that artest is top 5 or 3 SF in the league. i will concede top 10, but no way is he top 5.

The way that this argument started was that I said that I would take a trade with toronto that sent artest there for Ford, Grahm and their first. They said he was top 5 and the rest is history.