RealGM

Posted: **Mon May 12, 2008 7:21 am**

Trade 1:
Kings trade:
Kenny Thomas
2008 1st round pick

Sonics trade:
Nick Collison
Damien Wilkins
Johan Petro

Trade 2:
Kings trade:
John Salmons
Mikke Moore

Raptors trade:
TJ Ford
Baston
filler

*Regarding Ford's BYC status, if anyone knows the specifics and can get a deal to work please post it.

New Kings lineup:
Brad Miller/Spencer Hawes/Petro
Nick Collison/Shelden Williams/SAR
Ron Artest/Damien Wilkins/Baston
Kevin Martin/Garcia/Douby
TJ Ford/Douby

Why for the Kings:
The 1st trade does sacrifice our lottery pick and rebuilding, but I dont think we are that far from competing. The Kings 2 biggest weaknesses last season were rebounding and assists. Kings were near the bottom in both categories. And despite that and all the injuries we were still almost .500 in the West and had some nice wins against elite teams. Nick Collison is in the mold of a Jeff Foster/David Lee in that he is a big man who plays with high energy and creates a lot of possessions for there teams with their rebounding and hustle. If there is one thing the Kings lack its a big man who rebounds at a high rate and hustles. Ford, when healthy is a playmaker who will rack up the assists. IMO he fits in nicely and would be great for Kmart. We would still need good production from our bench and Williams and Douby will have to step up and contribute off the bench. Also our rebuilding isn't completely gone, as we can still add a big FA in 2010 and add to the core of Hawes/Martin/Artest/Ford/Collison

Posted: **Mon May 12, 2008 8:42 am**

The Seattle trade is a very bad idea.

I'm not sold on any of the guys Sacramento would be getting and it makes more sense for the Kings to wait a year where Kenny Thomas would have positive value as an expiring.

Posted: **Mon May 12, 2008 9:41 am**

Bac2Basics wrote:The Seattle trade is a very bad idea.

I'm not sold on any of the guys Sacramento would be getting and it makes more sense for the Kings to wait a year where Kenny Thomas would have positive value as an expiring.

You're underrating Nick Collison. He's a double double guy who rebounds at a high rate and plays with a lot of energy. He can also hit the mid range jumper and finish around the rim. If we got Arthur or Speights or Love at 12 and they turned into Collison I'd take that, but there's no guarantee they may be busts. By taking Collison we know what we're getting instead of taking a gamble with the 12th pick.

Posted: **Mon May 12, 2008 12:07 pm**

Collison is a HACK.

Posted: **Mon May 12, 2008 12:20 pm**

Collison is a very useful role player, he's worth 12th pick.

Posted: **Mon May 12, 2008 2:39 pm**

Bac2Basics wrote:The Seattle trade is a very bad idea.

I'm not sold on any of the guys Sacramento would be getting and it makes more sense for the Kings to wait a year where Kenny Thomas would have positive value as an expiring.

Wilkins is the only questionable guy in that group. Collison is a very good PF off the bench and Petro is a beast. Now I would argue about these 2 trades getting the Kings to the playoffs. Sure, the team would be better and would have a shot at the 7th/8th seed. But the goal is not to get to the 7th/8th seed, the goal is to win a championship.

Overall, though, I would be thrilled if we could dump KT and get Petro in return. Too bad that's unrealistic.

Posted: **Mon May 12, 2008 3:34 pm**

both trades are terrible

plain & simple !

Posted: **Mon May 12, 2008 4:20 pm**

Yeah, we can do the second one without the first one and thats about our chances of getting in anyways. Collison is good but I'd rather have some more youth and he's got a long term deal thats kinda ugly.

And while i'm thrilled to dump K9, he's expiering in two now, and I'm not to enthralled on Petro.

Posted: **Mon May 12, 2008 4:42 pm**

KingInExile wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Wilkins is the only questionable guy in that group. Collison is a very good PF off the bench and Petro is a beast. Now I would argue about these 2 trades getting the Kings to the playoffs. Sure, the team would be better and would have a shot at the 7th/8th seed. But the goal is not to get to the 7th/8th seed, the goal is to win a championship.

Overall, though, I would be thrilled if we could dump KT and get Petro in return. Too bad that's unrealistic.

Posted: **Mon May 12, 2008 4:55 pm**

KingInExile wrote:But the goal is not to get to the 7th/8th seed, the goal is to win a championship.

EXACTLY EXACTLY EXACTLY EXACTLY EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Any rebuilding plan that has us in the playoffs within 2 years should automatically be ignored.

A championship team has to be perfect, and we are far from it. The west is extremely tough and will take 50+ games to make it into the playoffs.

We shouldn't even think about the playoffs, until at least 3 years from now, but instead, we need to be thinking about how to build our "perfect" team.

Our PG, SG, SF, PF, C, bench scorer, our bench 3 point shooter, rebounder, clutch shooter, lockdown defender, all these things must be fullfilled, or at least we need to have some plan on fulfilling them.

Teams that went and traded for players to get them into the playoffs, or just added some quick pieces that have talent and skill in hopes of turning their team great...
Denver, Phoenix, Cleveland, Dallas, Houston, New York

None of these teams, will ever win a championship in the near future.

Playoffs for the next few years shouldn't even be thought about. Focus on improving the team, finding perfect pieces, and slowly get into the playoffs not instantly. I'd rather take another, 4 years, and ease into the playoffs, by winning 5 games more each year, than taking a quick bump. (Unless if that quick bump is Duncan or Oden of course)

Posted: **Mon May 12, 2008 5:03 pm**

Lightning Strike wrote:Yeah, we can do the second one without the first one and thats about our chances of getting in anyways. Collison is good but I'd rather have some more youth and he's got a long term deal thats kinda ugly.

And while i'm thrilled to dump K9, he's expiering in two now, and I'm not to enthralled on Petro.

Have you even seen him play? A lot of you guys have been screaming for length and athleticism inside...that's what Petro brings. He's still young and developing and that development showed good progress last year. He would be a very good compliment next to Spencer.

Posted: **Mon May 12, 2008 5:43 pm**

Everyone wanted David Lee for Artest, Collison averages more rebounds than Lee and plays less minutes. Lee is probably slightly better offensively, but Collison better defensively and thats what the Kings need. Collison would be ideal off the bench behind an elite PF and C but he's a borderline starter just like Lee,Foster, or Bass.

But the goal is not to get to the 7th/8th seed, the goal is to win a championship.

Thats a good point, but when you look at our situation as a whole, what options do we really have? Our best option is to wait until our money comes off the books and sign a big FA, and let our younger players develop.which these 2 trades dont interfere with. Until then, is there really a difference with our late lotto pick and Philly's 16 or Toronto's 17? We should aim for the playoffs until we add our FA in 2010. Collison and Artest are in the 27/28 y/o range and still have 5 years or so in their primes. Kmart and Hawes will have developed some by then, and I think we'd be a very solid team and a playoff team in the west until we do sign someone and we can make the jump to an elite team. Becoming an elite team is a process, we're not just going to stockpile young talent and become a great team, at some point we're going to have to move some of the young talent for established players who can produce now. Making the playoffs in the West even as a low seed would be a huge achievement for this team, then we can go from there and set another goal.

The 12th pick is really 50/50 in getting a productive player, and the pick is really getting overrated here. Our savior won't be this year
s draft pick. Getting an all star with that pick is a long shot. I dont know if Seattle does it with Petro, maybe replace him with Sene.

Posted: **Mon May 12, 2008 6:47 pm**

KingInExile wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Have you even seen him play? A lot of you guys have been screaming for length and athleticism inside...that's what Petro brings. He's still young and developing and that development showed good progress last year. He would be a very good compliment next to Spencer.

I've seen him play. He'd be a nice pick up, but I'm not to happy with giving up a #12 overall and taking Collison's contract to get him. Doesn't Collison get like 18 mil over the next 3 years?

Posted: **Mon May 12, 2008 8:01 pm**

Also, factor in what it would mean for the sonics

You'd very well could be looking at a future of

D. Rose
K. Durant
J. Green
K. Love
S. Sene

While our future becomes
B. Udrih
K. Martin
F. Garcia
S. Williams
S. Hawes

noooo thankyou

Posted: **Mon May 12, 2008 8:17 pm**

sackings916 wrote:Everyone wanted David Lee for Artest, Collison averages more rebounds than Lee and plays less minutes. Lee is probably slightly better offensively, but Collison better defensively and thats what the Kings need. Collison would be ideal off the bench behind an elite PF and C but he's a borderline starter just like Lee,Foster, or Bass.

But the goal is not to get to the 7th/8th seed, the goal is to win a championship.

Thats a good point, but when you look at our situation as a whole, what options do we really have? Our best option is to wait until our money comes off the books and sign a big FA, and let our younger players develop.which these 2 trades dont interfere with. Until then, is there really a difference with our late lotto pick and Philly's 16 or Toronto's 17? We should aim for the playoffs until we add our FA in 2010. Collison and Artest are in the 27/28 y/o range and still have 5 years or so in their primes. Kmart and Hawes will have developed some by then, and I think we'd be a very solid team and a playoff team in the west until we do sign someone and we can make the jump to an elite team. Becoming an elite team is a process, we're not just going to stockpile young talent and become a great team, at some point we're going to have to move some of the young talent for established players who can produce now. Making the playoffs in the West even as a low seed would be a huge achievement for this team, then we can go from there and set another goal.

The 12th pick is really 50/50 in getting a productive player, and the pick is really getting overrated here. Our savior won't be this year
s draft pick. Getting an all star with that pick is a long shot. I dont know if Seattle does it with Petro, maybe replace him with Sene.

I have nothing against remaining competitive while rebuilding, but the focus should not be just doing well enough to make the playoffs. The focus needs to be the long term. A deal like the Seattle deal would be something to consider since it brings in a good, young player (Petro). But that would be the only reason I consider it, not because is may or may not get the team to the playoffs.

Lightning Strike wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

I've seen him play. He'd be a nice pick up, but I'm not to happy with giving up a #12 overall and taking Collison's contract to get him. Doesn't Collison get like 18 mil over the next 3 years?

First off, Collison's would not be the main player I would be interested in the deal; I would do it to get Petro. But when you look at it, the swap of KT for Collison is enticing. Yes, Collison has 3 years left at over $19M...but how is that so much worse than the $17.5M Kenny's being paid over the next 2. At least Collison would make a contribution; KT is worthless.

Posted: **Mon May 12, 2008 8:19 pm**

The difference comes down to how Collison is viewed. I think he's a borderline starter who's just as good if not better than David Lee..seems like everyone else looks at him like a scrub or bench player at best.

Posted: **Mon May 12, 2008 8:41 pm**

deNIEd wrote:
KingInExile wrote:But the goal is not to get to the 7th/8th seed, the goal is to win a championship.

EXACTLY EXACTLY EXACTLY EXACTLY EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Any rebuilding plan that has us in the playoffs within 2 years should automatically be ignored.

A championship team has to be perfect, and we are far from it. The west is extremely tough and will take 50+ games to make it into the playoffs.

We shouldn't even think about the playoffs, until at least 3 years from now, but instead, we need to be thinking about how to build our "perfect" team.

Our PG, SG, SF, PF, C, bench scorer, our bench 3 point shooter, rebounder, clutch shooter, lockdown defender, all these things must be fullfilled, or at least we need to have some plan on fulfilling them.

Teams that went and traded for players to get them into the playoffs, or just added some quick pieces that have talent and skill in hopes of turning their team great...
Denver, Phoenix, Cleveland, Dallas, Houston, New York

None of these teams, will ever win a championship in the near future.

Playoffs for the next few years shouldn't even be thought about. Focus on improving the team, finding perfect pieces, and slowly get into the playoffs not instantly. I'd rather take another, 4 years, and ease into the playoffs, by winning 5 games more each year, than taking a quick bump. (Unless if that quick bump is Duncan or Oden of course)

Thats the WORST thing the Kings can do. How many times has that worked for teams in the past? Like i said before at some point the Kings will have to move some of their younger talent/picks/prospects for ESTABLLISHED players because law of averages say all of our young players will NOT pan out which the Kings cannot afford. Our assets are limited as is so if 1 or 2 of our draft picks turn out to be busts that would be a huge hit for our franchise. If we could get Nick Collison(who was picked at #12) for our pick this year I'd take it at this point.

Posted: **Mon May 12, 2008 9:18 pm**

KingInExile wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

First off, Collison's would not be the main player I would be interested in the deal; I would do it to get Petro. But when you look at it, the swap of KT for Collison is enticing. Yes, Collison has 3 years left at over $19M...but how is that so much worse than the $17.5M Kenny's being paid over the next 2. At least Collison would make a contribution; KT is worthless.

Well, it all depends. Is Collison's contribution worth the extra year in contract? Kenny suddenly HAS value as a big EXP.

Still I agree, Collison >>>>>>> Kenny. But is the gamble on Petro worth the pick (which is a gamble in itself)? Would Petro go around 12th anyways?

Posted: **Mon May 12, 2008 10:32 pm**

sackings916 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Thats the WORST thing the Kings can do. How many times has that worked for teams in the past? Like i said before at some point the Kings will have to move some of their younger talent/picks/prospects for ESTABLLISHED players because law of averages say all of our young players will NOT pan out which the Kings cannot afford. Our assets are limited as is so if 1 or 2 of our draft picks turn out to be busts that would be a huge hit for our franchise. If we could get Nick Collison(who was picked at #12) for our pick this year I'd take it at this point.

Collison isn't an "established" player.

Yes, we will have to consolidate talent at some point, except that point isn't now.

We have barely any younger talent or picks.
We have
4 players on the downside of their prime (Miller, Moore, Shareef, Thomas)
2 players in the middle of their prime (Artest, Salmons)
2 players entering their prime (Martin, Garcia)
2 young players (Hawes, Sheldon)
Douby has shown nothing, and doesn't matter at all.
Udrih has yet to be resigned.

We've been out of the playoffs for 2 years, it takes far longer than that to bounce back.

Where does your team get us?
Ford/Martin/Artest/Collison/Miller will barely make it into the playoffs. If they do, it's a near sweep in the first round.
You honestly believe that team has any sort of a shot against the Hornets, Lakers, Spurs?!!!
You gotta be kidding me.

Only thing a half assed effort like that will accomplish, is waste the potential of Martin. That team that you have, would possibly make it into the playoffs, hover around 7th-10th seed for 3-4 years, until Miller can no longer play. Artest no longer the same player. Martin will be mad at the team going no where, and most likely leave after this contract. And we end up worse than we are currently.

A complete joke

Posted: **Mon May 12, 2008 11:40 pm**

deNIEd wrote:
Collison isn't an "established" player.

Its safe to say he's a double double guy. He was 9.8 pts and 9.5 reb and 0.8 blks last year in only 28 mins, something like 9 and 8 the year before in limited minutes.

Yes, we will have to consolidate talent at some point, except that point isn't now.

Why isnt it and why not the 12th pick? Collison was picked 12th in a deep Idraft(03). He's pretty young at 27 and he has around 5 years of his prime left.

We've been out of the playoffs for 2 years, it takes far longer than that to bounce back.

But we've been mediocre for a while. Probably about 4 or 5 years

Where does your team get us?
Ford/Martin/Artest/Collison/Miller will barely make it into the playoffs. If they do, it's a near sweep in the first round.
You honestly believe that team has any sort of a shot against the Hornets, Lakers, Spurs?!!!
You gotta be kidding me.

I dont think that team is an elite team at all, but its a good base. Thats a pretty solid team IMO. And im banking on the younger players we already have developing and becoming better players (Martin and Hawes as stars,Williams and Douby as good bench players). Then we can add our FA in 2010 and really make a push to be an elite team.

Only thing a half assed effort like that will accomplish, is waste the potential of Martin. That team that you have, would possibly make it into the playoffs, hover around 7th-10th seed for 3-4 years, until Miller can no longer play. Artest no longer the same player. Martin will be mad at the team going no where, and most likely leave after this contract. And we end up worse than we are currently.

A complete joke

That scenario is twisted. Why would you want to be a low lotto team and build around late lotto picks who may or may not be good pros when you can move one of those late lotto picks for a sure double double guy who's still young, make the playoffs and compete, gain the experience and toughness necessary to win just at the cost of moving a few spots down.Thats all the trades do.That team develops, adds an all star level talent in 2010, makes a few more trades and becomes a contender. When Miller declines Hawes will take over. And Artest will be about 30-31 in 3 or 4 years, still in his prime at playing at a high level.

RealGM

2 trades that get the Kings in the playoffs next season

2 trades that get the Kings in the playoffs next season

trade