Sac/Mia

KM44 · Post #1 » by **KM44** » Thu May 29, 2008 11:48 pm

I already ran this past Miami fans and they seem to like it.

Kings trade: Artest, Miller, Williams

Miami trade: Marion & second round pick, not second pick

our lineup looks like:

Beno/Augustine?
Martin/Garcia/Douby
Salmons/Garcia
Marion/Abdur-Rahim/Love?
Hawes/Moore

I understand that we lose some talent, but we get practically a late 1st along with possibly the most athletic big in the league. This is a great long-term trade, as it gives garcia and hawes a ton more time along with having 4 draft picks (3 2nds which we could transform into a late first). thoughts?

longfellow44 · Post #2 » by **longfellow44** » Fri May 30, 2008 1:34 am

Wow you screwed the Kings pretty badly. Artest is about equal to marion and then you add Miller purely for contractual purposes come on the guy has very positive value right now, and to top it all off you give them Shelden Williams.

Thats it you should be banned as a Kings fan. :banghead:

Cruel_Ruin · Post #3 » by **Cruel_Ruin** » Fri May 30, 2008 1:43 am

We should have no interest in Marion

SacTown Kings · Post #4 » by **SacTown Kings** » Fri May 30, 2008 2:26 am

See my response in the SAC/Cha thread.

KM44 · Post #5 » by **KM44** » Fri May 30, 2008 3:47 am

wow, I'm fairly surprised by the reaction. and sorry about posting it in the cha/sac thread, my b. anyways, miller seems like he is a positive asset, but he is getting old and his contract is way to big for being a mediocer starting center. as for artest, I think that we put waaaay too much value on him, its true that im very anti-artest, but really, marion is so much better than artest. The williams point is true, i dont think that would be fair, but miami liked it. Williams would be taken out though.

So what im sensing is that marion, a guy who averaged almost 11 boards with miami and 16 points while being a number 2 option is better than miller and artest, guys who will take our franchise absolutely nowhere? It just doesn't make any sense. then the first pick of the second round could be utilized in many ways to help our team next year.

BMiller52 · Post #6 » by **BMiller52** » Fri May 30, 2008 3:58 am

Marion's not better than Artest. Hell he's not even as good as Artest.

longfellow44 · Post #7 » by **longfellow44** » Fri May 30, 2008 4:35 am

Yes look at what Marion averaged in Miami as the Number two option leading Miami to the worst record in the league. The heat also had Wade who may not have played much but come on Marion helped the team to a 15 win finish.

While Artest played as the number one option on a 38 win team in the West where wins were a little harder to get. Artest averaged 20pts 5.8rbs
3.5 ast and 2.3 stls. how are those numbers not better.

Miller isn't just a middle of the pack C. He's the best passing big still in the league he's a top 10 C. And he averaged a near double double. He has very very positive value. He may be older with a big contract but his game isn't dependent on his athleticism it's based on IQ and skill which don't leave a player as they get older.

Shelden williams was the core piece to the bibby trade. You don't just throw that in as a bonus. He may not have produced like everyone wanted but he's still got potential that if he gets in shape over the summer he could be a very solid contributor.

Artest>Marion
Miller>>>>>>>nothing
Shelden>>>2nd rounder

KM44 · Post #8 » by **KM44** » Fri May 30, 2008 5:03 am

well this is all about perspective. I feel like artest in only 57 games would not have the same numbers if he played in 82. and there is no way he is the #1, martin is the #1. as for the record, marion only played with the heat for a little while, you need to look at him as a sun. marion is much better, i would consider him as one of the top 6 or 7 SF in the league, artest is like top 15. as for miller, its true that he can be good, but right now, his trade value could not be higher, and if he gets injured again, everyone will be furious that we didnt get rid of him while we could, the same goes for artest. if you want to see how people are going to do in the future, look at their past. could you immagine what we could have gotten if we traded webber when he was still worth something!? it would have been epic, so this would be a trade that the kings would have to do, marion is too good and this years draft talent is too good

Post #9 » by **pillwenney** » Fri May 30, 2008 7:48 am

KM44 wrote:well this is all about perspective. I feel like artest in only 57 games would not have the same numbers if he played in 82. and there is no way he is the #1, martin is the #1. as for the record, marion only played with the heat for a little while, you need to look at him as a sun. marion is much better, i would consider him as one of the top 6 or 7 SF in the league, artest is like top 15. as for miller, its true that he can be good, but right now, his trade value could not be higher, and if he gets injured again, everyone will be furious that we didnt get rid of him while we could, the same goes for artest. if you want to see how people are going to do in the future, look at their past. could you immagine what we could have gotten if we traded webber when he was still worth something!? it would have been epic, so this would be a trade that the kings would have to do, marion is too good and this years draft talent is too good

No he's not. Ron averages more shot attempts and the only reason that Kevin is even close to him in shot attempts is that he finds other ways to get shots--but Kevin really doesn't have very many plays called for him at all. The fact that he still scores like he does is pretty much what makes him so special, but Ron really is still the #1 option as far as going to him.

As for the rest, we have already argued this, and frankly I think most would agree that your opinion on Artest is basically based off of pretty much nothing but blind hatred. It's one thing to say that you think Marion is better than Ron (I certainly wouldn't agree, but there's at least an argument there) but to act like it's not close is absurd.

And using the Webber situation as a comparison is also absurd. The only reason that Chris's value was just so low was because he still had a massive contract. Miller and especially Ron don't compare here.

Ballings7 · Post #10 » by **Ballings7** » Fri May 30, 2008 9:37 am

Marion is not a "big".

He's a SF that can play PF at times, and a SF that played PF primariliy in a small-ball, running, unconvential system.

While not really related to us, ultimately, that route was more of a negative than positive past the 1st round of the playoffs because of the size and team quality differential that comes deeper in the playoffs.

Still shows up at times in the regular season too, just not as much and isn't as magnified.

On the trade? Definitely don't like it, and not happening.

VeeJay24 · Post #11 » by **VeeJay24** » Fri May 30, 2008 10:29 am

I originally offered this trade but a differen version......Miller/Artest for Marion/Cook

The reason I like it is we get rid of Miller and his contract and we get Marion and lose his contract at the end of the season.

I am just in the opinion that Artest need to be moved and basically the team needs a complete overhaul. An overhaul that has already started.

So if we can get a big expiring contract like Marion's or a player like Howard from Dallas. Artest needs to be traded since this team will not be a championship contender in the near future.

Besides I think Artest doesn't really fit what Theus wants to do. Artests excells in the half court and basically needs the ball to succeed. Theus wants an uptempo offense with crisp ball movement. Sure the Kings miss his defense but hopefully the Kings can replace that.

If you trade him along with Miller to Miami. 1. You get rid of Miller's deal. 2. You eliminate losing Artest next year and getting nothing in return. 3. You get a big expiring deal.

BMiller52 · Post #12 » by **BMiller52** » Fri May 30, 2008 11:09 am

VeeJay24 wrote:I originally offered this trade but a differen version......Miller/Artest for Marion/Cook

The reason I like it is we get rid of Miller and his contract and we get Marion and lose his contract at the end of the season.

I am just in the opinion that Artest need to be moved and basically the team needs a complete overhaul. An overhaul that has already started.

So if we can get a big expiring contract like Marion's or a player like Howard from Dallas. Artest needs to be traded since this team will not be a championship contender in the near future.

Besides I think Artest doesn't really fit what Theus wants to do. Artests excells in the half court and basically needs the ball to succeed. Theus wants an uptempo offense with crisp ball movement. Sure the Kings miss his defense but hopefully the Kings can replace that.

If you trade him along with Miller to Miami. 1. You get rid of Miller's deal. 2. You eliminate losing Artest next year and getting nothing in return. 3. You get a big expiring deal.

THeus said at the end of the season he wanted Ron to stay and we need more tough grind it out players like him? Were you listening?

As for KM44 dude, you brought up that Marion scored in Phoenix. WOW REALLY? Because it's not like he was playing with a top 5 PG and a system with tons of shots or anything :roll:

Smills91 · Post #13 » by **Smills91** » Fri May 30, 2008 12:29 pm

Make it the 2nd pick in the draft and the Kings do it.

KM44 · Post #14 » by **KM44** » Sat May 31, 2008 1:05 am

Thank you veejay for at least a little support. So, there were a few shots here, let me respond. First of all, Ron artest might take more shots, but he misses MUCH more. Kevin martin is a much better offensive player, and he should be the #1 option. But hes not, because we have ron artest. This trade is, as veejay said, a way to dump two guys, one who's contract will come back to haunt us, the other who will probably leave because the kings arent any good, for a great "big" (and im soooo sorry that he plays the 3 more than the 4, its not worth a post to complain about it though) who has a big contract that we could either let go, or extend at a cheaper price if he wants it. And no one is talking about the pick thats thrown in to make this trade worth doing! It is practically a late first, which could be used to get a solid talent, or we could pair it with one or both of our second rounders to get another solid first rounder. This makes a lot of sense, and im sorry that I care about what my team does, and standing pat and waiting is not going to make our team better. They will NEVER be a contender with artest as the #1 and miller as the starting center, so whats the point of waiting until they have no value at all?

Post #15 » by **Wolfay** » Sat May 31, 2008 2:16 am

Somebody needs to go to summer school *cough*KM44*cough* to keep their mind sharp!

Ballings7 · Post #16 » by **Ballings7** » Sat May 31, 2008 5:11 am

Ron Artest is a better overall player than Marion.

Marion's a better rebounder and athlete.

Marion is an all-star hustle player, Artest is a legit all-star-caliber two-way player.

BMiller52 · Post #17 » by **BMiller52** » Sat May 31, 2008 9:09 am

KM44 wrote:Thank you veejay for at least a little support. So, there were a few shots here, let me respond. First of all, Ron artest might take more shots, but he misses MUCH more. Kevin martin is a much better offensive player, and he should be the #1 option. But hes not, because we have ron artest. This trade is, as veejay said, a way to dump two guys, one who's contract will come back to haunt us, the other who will probably leave because the kings arent any good, for a great "big" (and im soooo sorry that he plays the 3 more than the 4, its not worth a post to complain about it though) who has a big contract that we could either let go, or extend at a cheaper price if he wants it. And no one is talking about the pick thats thrown in to make this trade worth doing! It is practically a late first, which could be used to get a solid talent, or we could pair it with one or both of our second rounders to get another solid first rounder. This makes a lot of sense, and im sorry that I care about what my team does, and standing pat and waiting is not going to make our team better. They will NEVER be a contender with artest as the #1 and miller as the starting center, so whats the point of waiting until they have no value at all?

Oh please save the (Please Use More Appropriate Word) "Kevin Martin is being held hostage by the evil Ron Artest and is not allowed to shootz teh ballz!!11111!!!!". Kevin has already said he wants Ron to stay.

Nobody said we had to keep Ron or stand pat. What we're saying is YOUR TRADE SUCKS and we're telling you why. You make this garbage argument about how by the time we're good again Ron and Brad will be old well so is Marion because he's practically the same god damn age and I think a year older than Ron. So basically we trade 2 vets for 1 vet who's worth half of that and we don't get back any young players, WHICH IS WHAT YOU SHOULD WANT if you trade Ron and/or Brad.

Another part of your argument how we get back an allstar PF was destroyed when it was brought up Marion plays SF the majority of the time even though you call him a "great big". You've contradicted THAT statement plenty of times before saying how Marion is a better SMALL FORWARD than Ron, but when that doesn't fit your argument you call him a big and forget about it.

Your argument has more large holes than a house of prostitutes and we can do this all day if you want or you can just agmit you're wrong now

Post #18 » by **ICMTM** » Sat May 31, 2008 2:25 pm

If we could leave the whore houses out of the conversation...

Unless the #2 pick is involved Miami and Sacramento don't make great trading partners.

KM44 · Post #19 » by **KM44** » Sat May 31, 2008 6:38 pm

Once again, it is optional to keep marion or not. It is true that hes about the same age as artest, but his contract is much bigger, meaning space could get cleared up immidiately, OR we could resign him for less money. And I wouldnt have put this trade up if i thought it would be a bad trade, this trade makes sense in a long-term sense. But, if you guys truely despise it, we can drop it

Post #20 » by **ICMTM** » Sun Jun 1, 2008 11:33 pm

Our cap situation isn't bad so using money as a basis in trades isn't enticing.

Also I've said in other threads Miami would deal if Rose isn't available to them. Even the wiretap has Miami shopping for a PG, so I just don't think the the Heat and Michael Beasley are a great fit for each other.

Being that it looks like the Heat want a point guard this would have to be a three team deal. The more I look at this the more I don't think Sac and Mia are good trade partners.