Now what Happens?

[VeeJay24]

Everyone is so down on this team leave it alone and let what happens happen jeez. I mean seriously did anyone think last years team was close to a 38 win team? No not many people thought they would win that many so we go out and get a rebounder in thompson and a young pg to play behind beno and your still not happy. We all want the same thing which is a parade but we gotta be patient and let them team play ron is ron simple as that he will put 100% into every game and he will be playing for a contract ron has made it very clear that he loves Sacramento and wants to be here but we dont want him and he doesn't wanna leave but hes being forced out.

Whatever you said......but I think no one is cheering for a 20 win team and no one is cheering for a competitive team that wins 38 or 40 games and misses the playoffs every year that gets to pick at the bottom of the lottery.

If there are teams out there willing to give you what you ask for to get Ron then he has to go. Make no mistake about it this team will not make the playoffs whether Ron is here or not so if you can get yourself an expiring contract and a nice young guy with some potential and or an extra 1st rd. draft pick, I say do it!!!!!

[KF10]

When this team is healthy, is this a playoff-level team? We know we faced numerous injuries with our players and had an effect on our wins column. I do believe that this team CAN be playoff-bound if this team is healthy significantly throughout the season. And a year of experience under Theus and other variables could make this team a true sleeper in the West.

[VeeJay24]

When this team is healthy, is this a playoff-level team? We know we faced numerous injuries with our players and had an effect on our wins column. I do believe that this team CAN be playoff-bound if this team is healthy significantly throughout the season. And a year of experience under Theus and other variables could make this team a true sleeper in the West.

I guess anything is possible but come on you don't really believe that do you?

[KingInExile]

When this team is healthy, is this a playoff-level team? We know we faced numerous injuries with our players and had an effect on our wins column. I do believe that this team CAN be playoff-bound if this team is healthy significantly throughout the season. And a year of experience under Theus and other variables could make this team a true sleeper in the West.

A lot of "ifs" there...but regardless, the goal is not to be a "playoff team". The goal is to be a title contender. This team does not currently have the pieces to be a title contender.

[KF10]

I guess anything is possible but come on you don't really believe that do you?

Yeah, anything is possible. But I don't know. One part of me says "This team has a chance at the playoffs, when this team is healthy" The another part says "You're crazy. This team has no shot and should rebuild" Im always on the fence on this issue. It could go either way IMO.

A lot of "ifs" there...but regardless, the goal is not to be a "playoff team". The goal is to be a title contender. This team does not currently have the pieces to be a title contender.

Yeah, there is alot of "IFs" but making to the playoffs should be considered. True, EVERY team in this league has the same goal, winning the title. But there is one winner but there is 16 teams that has a chance to win it and the last 14 doesn't. But yeah, you are right, the plan should be building this team to contend the title. But making to the playoffs is still a good feat knowing that people sees us as a lottery team. I don't know. Like I said to VJ, Im on the fence on this issue.

[KingInExile]

If we can make the playoffs, I say fine...that's gravy for this team. But the ultimate goal for this season should not be to make the playoffs. The goal should be to build a contending team and to try to win as many games as possible. As I said, if we win enough to make the playoffs, that's cool with me (I'm also cool with being in late lotto range as well). I basically just want a team that puts up a competitive effort every night while Petrie continues to search for the right pieces.

[KF10]

If we can make the playoffs, I say fine...that's gravy for this team. But the ultimate goal for this season should not be to make the playoffs. The goal should be to build a contending team and to try to win as many games as possible. As I said, if we win enough to make the playoffs, that's cool with me (I'm also cool with being in late lotto range as well). I basically just want a team that puts up a competitive effort every night while Petrie continues to search for the right pieces.

Yeah, I agree 100%.

[SacKingZZZ]

If we can make the playoffs, I say fine...that's gravy for this team. But the ultimate goal for this season should not be to make the playoffs. The goal should be to build a contending team and to try to win as many games as possible. As I said, if we win enough to make the playoffs, that's cool with me (I'm also cool with being in late lotto range as well). I basically just want a team that puts up a competitive effort every night while Petrie continues to search for the right pieces.

Well sure, but my gripe has always been why give the minutes to a player you DON'T INTEND TO KEEP. Why build a team around a player that most likely won't be here in at most a year? Especially when you're building a team away from said player, not even remotely "around" him. If we make the 8th seed on the back of Ron Artest, Brad Miller, etc, then all are gone in 1-2 years, what did that really get us? It's like giving all those minutes to Corliss when we had Justin Williams on the bench who we honestly never, ever got a proper look at. Sure, we had experience with the Big Nasty but how is that helping us now? I have a hard time getting behind a team knowing that it will most likely look drastically different in a rather short period of time.

There's that but then you get into the value thing too. Ron could have just walked away this year and regrets that he didn't. He's said exactly that. I don't blame him either. This situation sucks just as much for him as it does anybody else. We have had serious questions about direction the last couple of YEARS! That is too dang long. Bite the bullet already, time is running out. Time to utilize the pieces we have for the "future" now.

[KingInExile]

Sure, let's sit Artest and Miller and give all of their minutes to young guys. What do you think that does to their trade value? They have maximum trade value when they are on the floor producing at their highest possible level every night. Sure we could sit them and take whatever scraps other teams are willing to give (and believe me, scraps are all that will be offered if there is any hint that the Kings are just looking to dump "useless" players). Or we can play them, showcase their abilities and shop them for a the best deal that we can get. But I guess none of that would occur to you since it doesn't fit into the mode of "fire-sale the old guys so we can watch teh yung doods".

And as for the Justin Williams talk, get over it. He had plenty of chances to show what he could do for the team over the parts of the 2 years he was on the roster and he didn't capitalize on those chances. He was not going to fit in with this team because he was 1-dimensional; he did not have the ability to consistently contribute on both ends of the floor.

[Ballings7]

If we made the playoffs with Ron/Brad/Salmons (he shouldn't be excluded, regardless of how much his passion is indicated for winning (more subtle or more than that) ), the younger players who play enough would still get valuable experience. Partially together, and individually for the future. Like Kevin did in 06.

[SacKingZZZ]

Sure, let's sit Artest and Miller and give all of their minutes to young guys. What do you think that does to their trade value? They have maximum trade value when they are on the floor producing at their highest possible level every night. Sure we could sit them and take whatever scraps other teams are willing to give (and believe me, scraps are all that will be offered if there is any hint that the Kings are just looking to dump "useless" players). Or we can play them, showcase their abilities and shop them for a the best deal that we can get. But I guess none of that would occur to you since it doesn't fit into the mode of "fire-sale the old guys so we can watch teh yung doods".

And as for the Justin Williams talk, get over it. He had plenty of chances to show what he could do for the team over the parts of the 2 years he was on the roster and he didn't capitalize on those chances. He was not going to fit in with this team because he was 1-dimensional; he did not have the ability to consistently contribute on both ends of the floor.

If they don't have reasonable trade value after the season both just had, then they ARE NOT going to have it EVER again.

It's not about "getting over it" with Williams, it's just a clear example of what kind of state of self imposed limbo this franchise is in. And....last I recall Justin did do something that we apparently sited as one of our biggest foes last year ->He rebounded the ball<-. Sure, on a team trying to claw it's way to an 8th seed showcase he may not fit. Although I would argue that statement as well (heck even Artest mentioned he needed to get some time because of the skillset he did bring now, and he is the kind of player I'd rather have around a guy like Artest should we choose to go that route) but on a team that would help him develop his skill and give him opportunities to succeed within his own time frame, well, that's a different story isn't it?

It's all just a waste of time in my eyes. Moving an inch at a time, when you can very well just as easily move a mile. I get the argument. Hell, I was one of the people giving the same one... TWO YEARS AGO! I think it's been more than enough time and there are just too many young players on the team that need development now. Two years ago the rebuild side of the discussion wasn't as valid, but as we've accumulated more and more young talent it's hit the point of overflow. The direction is rather clear and obvious by now just from a numbers standpoint alone.

[SacKingZZZ]

If we made the playoffs with Ron/Brad/Salmons (he shouldn't be excluded, regardless of how much his passion is indicated for winning (more subtle or more than that) ), the younger players who play enough would still get valuable experience. Partially together, and individually for the future. Like Kevin did in 06.

He should be excluded though for other reasons. Like the fact that he isn't nearly as effective as part of the current lineup should it remain unchanged.

[OGSactownballer]

I have to say as just strictly a fan that even though the whole Memphis fire-sale thing sucks, it does get things moving somewhat. We are wasting valuable playing years of guys' careers while we hang between "win now" and "tank it for the future". I also agree that it seems that for some reason this team and it's coaches - even when given a useful one-dimensional player who fills a need - always fall back to laying a very "white" or "Euro" style of ball. I really pin that to the same as the type of guys Petrie always drafts. Skill guys, yes, but never the truly hard-ass NBA put-it-in-your-face types that get the hype and attention and RESPECT around the league. Ron is an exception, but he is known for being crazy more than his toughness. It gets really old sometimes how we see our team get pretty much manhandled night in and night out and keep saying (all Kings fans) that we need some bangers and tougher players, yet we keep getting nothing but "good citizens".

Just once I'd like to see a guy who just wants to do a Ben Wallace or a Utah/San Antonio (pick your guy on their rosters) manuver and just go out and kick some a** for 40 minutes a night to get his team the "W". Screw being a good citizen and screw the WASP idiots in Sacramento who want a winning team but only if they are nice guys. Check 2002 - nice guys get their ass handed to them in game 7 on their own floor. Nasty guys go to the finals.

[VeeJay24]

Sure, let's sit Artest and Miller and give all of their minutes to young guys. What do you think that does to their trade value? They have maximum trade value when they are on the floor producing at their highest possible level every night. Sure we could sit them and take whatever scraps other teams are willing to give (and believe me, scraps are all that will be offered if there is any hint that the Kings are just looking to dump "useless" players). Or we can play them, showcase their abilities and shop them for a the best deal that we can get. But I guess none of that would occur to you since it doesn't fit into the mode of "fire-sale the old guys so we can watch teh yung doods".

And as for the Justin Williams talk, get over it. He had plenty of chances to show what he could do for the team over the parts of the 2 years he was on the roster and he didn't capitalize on those chances. He was not going to fit in with this team because he was 1-dimensional; he did not have the ability to consistently contribute on both ends of the floor.

I hear what you're saying KIE and you're right if they're here they need to play but that's just it they don't need to be here. I understand Petrie was trying to rebuild and stay competitive that was a reality 2 years ago, it's no longer possible. You have teams like Utah & NO who have rebuilt themselves and are standing on the cusp of contending. Even the Lakers to a certain extent have rebuilt themselves and gone to a finals. Portland has rebuilt itself and now just have to make it happen on the court. Seattle is just about half way there, if not half way certainly ahead of the KIngs. We are wasting valuable time not being sure what we want to be at this point. We don't have to hide what other teams already know. They know the Kings have no use for Artest, Miller or Salmons so there is nothing to hide.

The time is now.......Petrie has to stop looking for the perfect deal, tell the teams what you need in return and take the best offer. If he hasn't called the Clippers then something is wrong of course none of us know if he has or not. My point is move Artest & Miller already, set a date that you want to be finish and leave no doubt and put this team on a true rebuilding course.

Let's stop the smoke & mirrors this is not a playoff team.

[KingInExile]

Sure, let's sit Artest and Miller and give all of their minutes to young guys. What do you think that does to their trade value? They have maximum trade value when they are on the floor producing at their highest possible level every night. Sure we could sit them and take whatever scraps other teams are willing to give (and believe me, scraps are all that will be offered if there is any hint that the Kings are just looking to dump "useless" players). Or we can play them, showcase their abilities and shop them for a the best deal that we can get. But I guess none of that would occur to you since it doesn't fit into the mode of "fire-sale the old guys so we can watch teh yung doods".

And as for the Justin Williams talk, get over it. He had plenty of chances to show what he could do for the team over the parts of the 2 years he was on the roster and he didn't capitalize on those chances. He was not going to fit in with this team because he was 1-dimensional; he did not have the ability to consistently contribute on both ends of the floor.

I hear what you're saying KIE and you're right if they're here they need to play but that's just it they don't need to be here. I understand Petrie was trying to rebuild and stay competitive that was a reality 2 years ago, it's no longer possible. You have teams like Utah & NO who have rebuilt themselves and are standing on the cusp of contending. Even the Lakers to a certain extent have rebuilt themselves and gone to a finals. Portland has rebuilt itself and now just have to make it happen on the court. Seattle is just about half way there, if not half way certainly ahead of the KIngs. We are wasting valuable time not being sure what we want to be at this point. We don't have to hide what other teams already know. They know the Kings have no use for Artest, Miller or Salmons so there is nothing to hide.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that they need to be here (or that they even will be in November). Petrie's first priority this summer is to move Artest; second priority is Miller. I think there's a high likelihood that Artest will be gone this summer to a contending team willing to give up skilled, young prospects and draft picks (hopefully they will take KT as well). Miller will be the harder one to move, though, because he still has a sizable contract and he ended the season with some minor injury concerns...he may be here until the deadline. As I said, I'm not advocating keeping them around. I just want the best deal possible for them in a trade and you won't get a good deal for them by sitting them on the bench (if they happen to still be here when the season starts).

The time is now.......Petrie has to stop looking for the perfect deal, tell the teams what you need in return and take the best offer. If he hasn't called the Clippers then something is wrong of course none of us know if he has or not. My point is move Artest & Miller already, set a date that you want to be finish and leave no doubt and put this team on a true rebuilding course.

Let's stop the smoke & mirrors this is not a playoff team.

The trouble with setting a deadline date to move these guys and deciding to compromise on deals just for the sake of moving them is that the team could end up in a worse long-term position than they are in with them on the roster. I would rather hold onto Artest for the season and let him expire and walk next summer than take back a redundant role player with a long-term contract. After this next season Miller turns into a $12M expiring deal; that could be an attractive piece in a deal next summer. Like you said, none of us really know what he's discussed and what he really wants back for Miller and Artest. I just think it's a mistake, though, to not keep options open and enter into the summer with the mindset of "we just need to move these guys".

[Ballings7]

He should be excluded though for other reasons. Like the fact that he isn't nearly as effective as part of the current lineup should it remain unchanged.

And still conflicts with Garcia and Douby.

Ron will be gone at the latest after this season, anyway. I'll be happy for him.

[pillwenney]

The trouble with setting a deadline date to move these guys and deciding to compromise on deals just for the sake of moving them is that the team could end up in a worse long-term position than they are in with them on the roster. I would rather hold onto Artest for the season and let him expire and walk next summer than take back a redundant role player with a long-term contract. After this next season Miller turns into a $12M expiring deal; that could be an attractive piece in a deal next summer. Like you said, none of us really know what he's discussed and what he really wants back for Miller and Artest. I just think it's a mistake, though, to not keep options open and enter into the summer with the mindset of "we just need to move these guys".

This is what I've really been trying to harp on for a while. It's not about the fact that Geoff wants to waste time or anything. It's about the whether or not doing a deal is really beneficial to us. And no, citing our potential draft position if we trade away vets isn't an example of what "beneficial" means.

I mean, everyone here remembers the trade deadline, right? IIRC every last poster here was glad that we didn't trade Brad or Ron because of the value we were (or weren't, I guess) going to get in return. Everyone agreed that the best available deals weren't worth it. But now, all of the sudden Geoff is slow and careless about rebuilding because he hasn't made any deals? What the hell is that?

I think one of the most important things to emphasize here is that a guy doesn't have value to us just because he's young. I'm 20, but that doesn't mean, I'd be able to help the Kings. So when Geoff passes up a deal of expirings and a random young player who some here thinks has "like totally sick!" potential in return for Ron, remember that we're looking for specific guys that specifically fit into what we're trying to do. Value is all relative.

As for Brad, well, not many teams will have ample expirings and a willingness to move them for Brad in the first place. That's probably why Orlando demanded Cisco at the deadline, which was of course, ridiculous. So if that deal isn't available, something else shouldn't be forced just because "we have to have these guys moved by this time".

Lastly, let's not forget that no rebuilding team just gets rid of all veterans. Even Portland has guys like Pryzbilla and Blake. Veterans can be quite important to teams in a rebuilding situation.

[Smills91]

The trouble with setting a deadline date to move these guys and deciding to compromise on deals just for the sake of moving them is that the team could end up in a worse long-term position than they are in with them on the roster. I would rather hold onto Artest for the season and let him expire and walk next summer than take back a redundant role player with a long-term contract. After this next season Miller turns into a $12M expiring deal; that could be an attractive piece in a deal next summer. Like you said, none of us really know what he's discussed and what he really wants back for Miller and Artest. I just think it's a mistake, though, to not keep options open and enter into the summer with the mindset of "we just need to move these guys".

This is what I've really been trying to harp on for a while. It's not about the fact that Geoff wants to waste time or anything. It's about the whether or not doing a deal is really beneficial to us. And no, citing our potential draft position if we trade away vets isn't an example of what "beneficial" means.

I mean, everyone here remembers the trade deadline, right? IIRC every last poster here was glad that we didn't trade Brad or Ron because of the value we were (or weren't, I guess) going to get in return. Everyone agreed that the best available deals weren't worth it. But now, all of the sudden Geoff is slow and careless about rebuilding because he hasn't made any deals? What the hell is that?

I think one of the most important things to emphasize here is that a guy doesn't have value to us just because he's young. I'm 20, but that doesn't mean, I'd be able to help the Kings. So when Geoff passes up a deal of expirings and a random young player who some here thinks has "like totally sick!" potential in return for Ron, remember that we're looking for specific guys that specifically fit into what we're trying to do. Value is all relative.

As for Brad, well, not many teams will have ample expirings and a willingness to move them for Brad in the first place. That's probably why Orlando demanded Cisco at the deadline, which was of course, ridiculous. So if that deal isn't available, something else shouldn't be forced just because "we have to have these guys moved by this time".

Lastly, let's not forget that no rebuilding team just gets rid of all veterans. Even Portland has guys like Pryzbilla and Blake. Veterans can be quite important to teams in a rebuilding situation.

AMEN!

[KF10]

AMEN!

+1

[King Baller]

I'm pretty happy with the way GP is handling the off season. 3 solid picks in the Draft. The coaches, scouts and GP all wanted Jason Thompson. Ron and Beno are back under contract. Trades should be possible because a couple of the teams will be left off of the free agent musical chairs game thats going on right now. Brand can't sign with the Clips, W's and Philly. Maggette can only sign one place. So teams might be interested in Ron, John, Mikki, Douby or Brad. If SAR can play he might draw some interest too. If GP can improve the squad he will.

Remember the injuries last year? Thats why the Kings started so poorly. Beno, Hawes and Cisco should be significantly improved with playing time under their belts and a full training camp. K Mart should add a move and a little more muscle. Douby should be ready for a break out year. Salmons is Playing lots of ball in Philly I bet. I hope to see more from Sheldon Williams, I hope he is training hard. The older veterans, Brad, Ron, Moore, Salmons, SAR and KT all know time is running out and should come in well conditioned.

Theus and the rest of the coaching staff have been through it once now and know what to expect.

Overall I give the Kings organization a B so far this off season.

KB