Kings/Nets Trade

[KM44]

I have alread introduced this to the nets board, and they seemed a bit skeptical, but I think that it should still be introduced to our thread.

Kings Trade Ron Artest, Douby & Williams for Sean Williams, Marcus Williams and Stromile Swift.

Kings look like

Udrich/Williams
Martin/Garcia
Salmons/Garcia
Williams/Moore
Miller(sober)/Hawes

This is quite the lineup if you ask me, and it gives us some options for both the present and the future when it comes to having flexibility to lose miller and the trifecta of old, useless PFs.

[_SRV_]

I really wouldn't do it, Douby and Shelden Williams are enough to net Sean Williams in my eyes, Artest for Swift on top of it is just absurd.

[KF10]

I really wouldn't do it, Douby and Shelden Williams are enough to net Sean Williams in my eyes, Artest for Swift on top of it is just absurd.

Not really. The Nets has a high view Sean Williams. And they should. He is a frkin defensive beast. He has great defensive instincts as a rookie. Just look at his stats (Blocks) it is very impressive! I like Sheldon/Douby but those two can't net Sean Williams.

But if Sheldon/Douby improves significantly during the summer, well yeah, they should net Williams.

[_SRV_]

I said "in my eyes" because I know he's getting hyped (like any athletic player with shot blocking ability) a lot on the board and Nets' fans (and few others) would disagree.
He's a 5.6/4.4 player with 1.5 blocks in 17.5 minutes, but he fouls 2.6 times in these minutes (that's a lot), nothing is impressive about these stats, Diop is as good of a shot blocker w/o the fouls, would you trade these guys for him? And on top of that, he is rumored to be a trouble maker.

[KF10]

I said "in my eyes" because I know he's getting hyped (like any athletic player with shot blocking ability) a lot on the board and Nets' fans (and few others) would disagree.
He's a 5.6/4.4 player with 1.5 blocks in 17.5 minutes, but he fouls 2.6 times in these minutes (that's a lot), nothing is impressive about these stats, Diop is as good of a shot blocker w/o the fouls, would you trade these guys for him? And on top of that, he is rumored to be a trouble maker.

Well, the fouls are obvious. He contest every shot in the paint. But yeah, that should be a concern. Also, he has some character issues but that was in college. But I don't remember that he caused any issues this year. When Sean starts (23.2 minutes) he averaged 7.8/6.2 and 1.9 blocks. And he is 22 years old compare to Diop who is 26 years old. Sean has good potential to be something in the NBA.

[_SRV_]

Blocks aren't relevant w/o the fouls, especially for a guy who isn't an anchor in the middle but a roamer, he's a good shot blocker and an athletic finisher, that's about it, he didn't show more than that, 2 recent 1st rounders for him are enough, SWilliams might be a bust for the 5th pick, but he's still a useful player in this league, and Douby is a local guy who they know very well.

[KF10]

Blocks aren't relevant w/o the fouls, especially for a guy who isn't an anchor in the middle but a roamer, he's a good shot blocker and an athletic finisher, that's about it, he didn't show more than that, 2 recent 1st rounders for him are enough, SWilliams might be a bust for the 5th pick, but he's still a useful player in this league, and Douby is a local guy who they know very well.

True, blocks aren't relevant due to foul. But he is still young to improve that aspect of his game. Again, he has good defensive instinct for a rookie. He shows enough upside to become a good/great defensive force. I wouldn't say he is a roamer. At times he can be but he can become a significant part of an anchor though. Not saying that he will anchor a team but he can complement a player very well that IS a defensive anchor.

[KM44]

I do see why you doubt if Sean Williams is worth what it seems, but he can really play basketball. He is an instinctive ball player who can build off of what he has now. He reminds me a lot of Amare, and if he can even get 3/4 as good, I will be happy. This trade, though, is not a Williams/Douby for Williams, its an Artest for Williams. The nets wouldn't do that straight up, so we had to throw in douby and shelden, then the nets even it out by giving us Marcus williams. So when you actually look at it, it's two first rounders per team, because both of the nets' williams were first rounders.

[Ballings7]

What a deal for New Jersey!

I pass on that.

[KM44]

Looking back, I would take out shelden. Or make NJ add a first rounder.

[_SRV_]

True, blocks aren't relevant due to foul. But he is still young to improve that aspect of his game. Again, he has good defensive instinct for a rookie. He shows enough upside to become a good/great defensive force. I wouldn't say he is a roamer. At times he can be but he can become a significant part of an anchor though. Not saying that he will anchor a team but he can complement a player very well that IS a defensive anchor.

That's exactly my point, he'll never be a defensive anchor, which makes his ability a nice to have and not vital, and quite frankly, he's not that good in other places, he has a lot of potential, but Douby has also, and Shelden has also, and a lot of other young players in this league.

[OGSactownballer]

Add the fact that in the west he is a bit undersized (at about 6'81/2") to hold the bigger (6'10"+) west PF's in a traditional manner. A guy with good timing can be a great weakside shotblocker as a rover - especially when he is young with springs in his legs. But he doesn't fit the way a guy with Jason Thompson's size does in a traditional lineup. He is only good on a running team that plays like NJ/PHX/WAS/DEN. That is why the 4 spot guys from those teams (except Amare) don't hold the value to other teams around the league that they do for their own squads.

The reality is that Douby alone, who showed similar promise as a specialized off the bench sixth man tweenerr scoring guard (in the mode of a Bobby Jackson) has about equal value as Sean Williiams as an off the bench rover defensive specialist. I would definitely not just throw in the other players because their just isn't any value there for us.

[KF10]

Yeah, he is better suited in a uptempo pace like PHX/GSW/DEN and etc. But it is good to have a player like him on the bench though. Think a Keon Clark-type of role. Which is very good, if a team wants to contend or wants a good young piece in a rebuilding phase. His role is ideal for our team nonetheless.

I disagree that Douby showed more than Sean in terms of potential and development. We have waited for Douby to become our 1/2. As we know, he will never be a 1. He doesn't have that PG mentality. He has been a semi-bust for 2 seasons now. But I will give him another season to prove that he can be that spark plug for us. I like Douby but if he can't show us that he can't produce in opportunities, he will be label as a bust and will be just a filler in trades. As of right now, Sean has shown he has a role and is producing as well. You guys are kinda selling Sean short.

[KM44]

Exactally, Sean has shown great development over the past year and douby has not. Once again, this trade is Artest for Sean, so douby isn't really that big of a deal in this trade. Heck, lets say it's just artest for sean and swift. NJ won't do that, so I threw in douby. They were still a bit iffy, so I added shelden and they put in Marcus Williams. We get two young players to fill spots of need in exchange for two guys who have potential, but so far have not shown anything.

[KF10]

Exactally, Sean has shown great development over the past year and douby has not. Once again, this trade is Artest for Sean, so douby isn't really that big of a deal in this trade. Heck, lets say it's just artest for sean and swift. NJ won't do that, so I threw in douby. They were still a bit iffy, so I added shelden and they put in Marcus Williams. We get two young players to fill spots of need in exchange for two guys who have potential, but so far have not shown anything.

Oh, Im arguing that we cannot get Sean just Douby and Williams IMO. But I'm not really willing to add Artest. So, the deal is a no go.

But I disagree that "Heck, lets say it's just artest for sean and swift. NJ won't do that" New Jersey would do the that deal. They need a SF (They trade Jefferson for Jianlian). I like Sean but not at the expense of Artest. The most I can go is Salmons or Garcia and sweetner for Sean/filler.

[KM44]

Ya, I have talked to NJ and they agree. This trade just won't happen. They are in the rebuilding process, and Artest is not a good part to add in that situation.

[KF10]

Ya, I have talked to NJ and they agree. This trade just won't happen. They are in the rebuilding process, and Artest is not a good part to add in that situation.

Yeah, they do not need Artest in a rebuilding process. If they add Artest, they can be playoff bound. Likely a .500 team. That's enough to make the playoffs in the East. But they are likely stay in rebuilding mode until they get the young nucleus of Harris/Jianlian/Lopez better and successful.

[OGSactownballer]

You throw a Garcia or a salmons in that mix, and it looks really nice for the Nets. I agree that I could see sending one of them for Sean, but the point of "two young prospects" I'm not on board with. I think that we pretty much have a consensus here that sean will have a nice career but is bench material for the most part. Now you talk about Marcus Williams, but NJ was adamant about picking up Devin Harris in the Kidd trade. That could have been the opportunity to open up minutes for Marcus, but instead they chose an established young point. I'm not sure (because of this) if the potential value is really there - especially since NJ fans are perfectly willing to throw him in to make the deal go.

Makes me nervous.