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When the signing happened, it raised a lot of brows, the claim was that 11 a year is too much for 2nd option, that played at high level for a year and a half, basically the fact that it was the first non trivial signing of that draft class (and one of only 3 signings IIRC), put a lot of question marks around it.
Since then, Martin continued his good play in his 4th year, shooting % dropped, but he was absolutely amazing in going to the line (when combining his converting ratio I'd put him at top 3 in the league), and still one of the best scorers in terms of both volume and efficiency.
I wanted to wait until the Gordon situation in Chicago is resolved but it seems to be taking forever, and I don't think there will be more indications to this discussion than what we already have.
So, looking at the current signing rate for his draft class:
Emeka Okafor: He was bad (for a 2nd pick and 1st pick candidate) the 1st 2 years, but picked it up in the last 2 years, he's a 14/11 along with ~2 blocks and good percentages, he got 12 millions for 6 years, on the other side, he was injured in every year of his 1st 3 years, he isn't a focal point in offense, and a very bad FT shooter, his team failed to provide any threat on a PO spot even in a very weak competition in the middle spots of the east, I'd say he should've gotten something similar to Kevin because of the position he fills, which he did, only for more years.
Luol Deng: Like Kevin, he peaked in his 3rd year, and was of a very successful young core in Chicago, but his playing style have always been style of 2nd/3rd option (which is the main knock on Kevin), and despite that he didn't match Kevin neither in efficiency nor in volume, he is younger, but already 4 years vet, and his play in late game situations left something to be desired, stat wise: his last 2 years he was 18/6.5 player, with good defense, but not great, he's not a better player than Kevin, but he got a 12/year for 6 years which can be increased with incentives.
Monta Ellis: A freak athlete of a guard, very quick and lethatl in the fast break, but he's small, not a PG (we'll see about that this year, but he gave no indication of being one), he acheived very good stats (still not close to Kevin), next to a great PG, in a very fast paced team, his ceiling is very high, but so are the Q marks around him, if you account for potential a similar price tag should be justifiable, and he did get it.
Ben Gordon: With Deng (and even moreso) he provides the closest thing to Kevin from this FA class, great perimeter scorer with questionable defense, PG size and PG game, with Ray Allan and Steve Nash starting to fade, he possesses one of the best shooting form and accuracy between guards , but doesn't go to the line enough for a premier scorer, he's a worse player then Kevin Martin, but he's asking for more money and I don't see Chicago sttling with him for less than 10/year.
There is still also Igualdala who's asking from for 75/6, Biedrins who got same 54/6 with incentives that could get him to 63.
When the Kevin Martin signing was announced, my reaction was, it's good value, and I was satisfied with it, but wondered what was the gain from doing it now, and not wait till after the 4th year.
Looking at the troubles that Chicago went through in the negotiations, the Iggy and Josh Smith not-settled-yet negotiations, and what Deng/Okafor/Ellis got, my take, is that the signing was great, for the following season:
1. There is no FA from the 04 draft class (I'll lump Ellis there since he's a 2nd round of 05), that got less by waiting, keep in mind that Gordon and Deng actually lowered their stock and Deng still got more than Kevin.
2. The Kings saved themselves from a long negotiations and disgruntled player/agent, imagine handling greater demands from Kevin and full MLE request from Beno, when we're at the verge of LT, a 1 million more on Kevin's deal this year would've meant 1 million less room for play (the Houston trade might not be feasible) in Artest's trade or Beno's signing.

That was a long post, feel free to comment with your thoughts.

One more late somewhat nostalgic comment on this signing:
The Kevin Martin signing is the first major signing of the Kings in the post Webber/Divac era, the last major sigining deal done by Petrie was Brad Miller, and it belongs to the previous era of the team, and judging by the magnitude of contracts, I'm hoping Petrie has learned something from his experience, the Bibby/Miller and even Webber signing (given his history before the deal) had a lot of overpayment in them, especially Bibby.

Kevin Martin is a solid value at his contract but is one of if not the worst defensive SG in the NBA both man to man and team defense. He almost forces the Kings to build a team that can put 110+ a night because no defense with him playing 38-40 minutes a night is going to give up less then 105 or so a night.

JMillott wrote:Kevin Martin is a solid value at his contract but is one of if not the worst defensive SG in the NBA both man to man and team defense. He almost forces the Kings to build a team that can put 110+ a night because no defense with him playing 38-40 minutes a night is going to give up less then 105 or so a night.

Have you seen Martin played? Martin is an above average defender at best. He uses his length and quickness to harass his opponents. He plays the passing lanes pretty well. But to be honest, he is a inconsistent defender. At times he is a good defender (Did a great job locking down Ray Allen) and at times he looks like average. But then again, Martin has to carry the scoring load. He can't do it at both ends. Even though, he did at times throughout the season, he looked like a frkin superstar. So, NO, he isn't the worst defensive SG. Have you heard Redd?

Anything on the subject other than JMillot trying to be cute?

JMillott wrote:Kevin Martin is a solid value at his contract but is one of if not the worst defensive SG in the NBA both man to man and team defense. He almost forces the Kings to build a team that can put 110+ a night because no defense with him playing 38-40 minutes a night is going to give up less then 105 or so a night.

Tad bit overstated. Kevin said he wants to defend the best player on the other team from now on. We'll see how he does.

One thing I want to see from Kevin this year is leadership. He has been our best player but not our leader. Sure he never really had the chance because it was always about either Bibby or Artest but now he has his chance. Kevin might struggle a bit because it doesn't seem like it is his type of personality but has to make an effort to be the team leader.

In hindsight I agree it was a good deal. At the time of the extension we defended the 11 mil per by saying, what if Kevin Martin gets plays better this season, and then wants even more in the offseason? Well he did improve, and I think if we had waited until this offseason we might still be negotiating and he might have been asking for Igoudala type money. As you said it might have interfered with the Beno signing and any Artest trade negotiations. So it was good to sign him then, I would've liked to get a 6th year on there but 5 is fine.

It kind of reminds me of how we extended Peja before he became an all-star, except Peja's deal was even cheaper.

All of the signings from the 04 draft class I think are in the right salary range, except for the Deng signing IMO. Seems like a bit too much, but Bulls fans seem to approve and they probably understand the situation better than I do.

I was one to think that he was overpaid, but not by much. Ideally I would have liked him to get just 1-2 million less a year.

However, I really can't judge about what the NBA is going to do at all. The majority of players seem to be "overpaid" but everything is relative right? It just takes 1 (Please Use More Appropriate Word) team to offer a player X amount of money, and every other team will be forced to do so as well.

The trend just isn't good, starting line ups are costing about 40-50 million at least. Leaving only about 10-20 million for another 10 players. Making a good portion of the bench players go over seas.

I dunno.

Fola314 wrote:In hindsight I agree it was a good deal. At the time of the extension we defended the 11 mil per by saying, what if Kevin Martin gets plays better this season, and then wants even more in the offseason? Well he did improve, and I think if we had waited until this offseason we might still be negotiating and he might have been asking for Igoudala type money. As you said it might have interfered with the Beno signing and any Artest trade negotiations. So it was good to sign him then, I would've liked to get a 6th year on there but 5 is fine.

It kind of reminds me of how we extended Peja before he became an all-star, except Peja's deal was even cheaper.

All of the signings from the 04 draft class I think are in the right salary range, except for the Deng signing IMO. Seems like a bit too much, but Bulls fans seem to approve and they probably understand the situation better than I do.

Exactly and Kevin would most likely have commanded at last 2-3 million per year more had Petrie waited.

Even if you value on scoring alone (which is often the case in the NBA - ESPECIALLY with scoring guards), Kevin is a HUGE freakin' bargain.

Also so far as the historical signings vs. current, you cannot compare them. That team was a CHAMPIONSHIP CONTENDER, and the key players were paid proportionally just like any other contender does. The current players are or will be paid in their second contracts based on what THEY have earned as individuals, and therefore will command less money right now on a lotto-level team.

It's always best to get it done early rather than later. I still think he may be a tad overpaid but that's the price of doing business.

Overpaid by WHOSE standards? What are the five guys who scored more PPG than Kevin last year paid. Run that list off for me then remind me why he is overpaid.

VeeJay24 wrote:It's always best to get it done early rather than later. I still think he may be a tad overpaid but that's the price of doing business.

I think in this case you are judged by the company you keep. Last year Kevin was hanging around in Redd/Allen territory, who both make and have made significantly more than Kevin will.

JMillott wrote:Kevin Martin is a solid value at his contract but is one of if not the worst defensive SG in the NBA both man to man and team defense. He almost forces the Kings to build a team that can put 110+ a night because no defense with him playing 38-40 minutes a night is going to give up less then 105 or so a night.

This post reeks of ignorance. Martin while no Ron-Bill Artest, is at least a capable defender. He holds his own, he can definitely improve but to say he's the worst defender at SG when Jamal Crawford and multiple others are in the NBA is just pure ignorance.

Lol, Iggy.

So, how much do you think Francisco will be asking?

I mean, everyone in the league right now is just being disgustingly money hungry.

B. Davis, E. Okafor, E. Brand, L. Deng, Iggy, J. Smith, B. Gordon, A. Bynum....gross.

Depends on what he'll do this year, I see him next year going for 14/4/3 on average FG% and good 3P FG% in ~30 minutes which most probably will get him the MLE, he'll finish his contract at the age of almost 28, not exactly your average rookie age.

The thing that really irks me about the sudden increase in what teams are paying for some of these guys is that they really ARE overpaid. Look at that list. Now throw out all the numbers but one - how far have they gotten their respective teams? Only Baron off that list has TRULY put the team on his back and carried them - not only to the playoffs but to a series win. The rest have proven NOTHING but their ability to look good individually.

To add to OGS's post Martin's role now appears to be a lead role rather than a supporting one, so now isn't the time to ask is he worth the money. Now is the time to ask Kevin to prove his worth. He's already going to get the cash! Whether or not it's a good signing is going to be based purely on his FUTURE performances so comparing him to people who don't even play his position NOR have been proven commodities is pointless.

I for one have been REAL hesitant to say Martin is capable of being a leading star on a winning team, but we shall see! I really hope I'm wrong, but I still feel it's going to take more than Martin getting more touches to matter in the W column.

ICMTM wrote:To add to OGS's post Martin's role now appears to be a lead role rather than a supporting one, so now isn't the time to ask is he worth the money. Now is the time to ask Kevin to prove his worth. He's already going to get the cash! Whether or not it's a good signing is going to be based purely on his FUTURE performances so comparing him to people who don't even play his position NOR have been proven commodities is pointless.

I for one have been REAL hesitant to say Martin is capable of being a leading star on a winning team, but we shall see! I really hope I'm wrong, but I still feel it's going to take more than Martin getting more touches to matter in the W column.

I have said it before, I'll say it again, even if Kevin doesn't improve a lick over what he was last year (maybe even if he regresses a little) the contract is more than fair compared to the going rate of similar players.

Now if he improves upon where he was last year he'll be an absolute steal never making more than 13 million even in the peak year of his contract.

That's the benefit of paying someone early. Similar situation to Beno. I think if Beno stays where he was at last year as a starter, in the 13 ppg, 5 apg neighborhood his contract is pretty fair. If he takes ANY steps back as a player the contract will look horrible. If he improves ANY he'll be a steal as well. There's more give on the improvement side though, any regression from him and we have some problems.