Bulls & Kings Talking Trade

[Tommy Udo 6]

From Wiretap:

Bulls GM John Paxson has admitted that his team is looking to make some changes, but at this point nothing is imminent, the Chicago Tribune is reporting.

"We've had a lot of conversation, trying to find things that fit," Paxson told media before the game against the Clippers on Wednesday night. It's known the Bulls have had talks with the Kings, though it's unclear who on that roster interests the Bulls.



I think - as mentioned in another thread - that Bulls are interested in Thomas & one of your point guards, in addition to the obvious Miller.....

[Smills91]

From Wiretap:

Bulls GM John Paxson has admitted that his team is looking to make some changes, but at this point nothing is imminent, the Chicago Tribune is reporting.

"We've had a lot of conversation, trying to find things that fit," Paxson told media before the game against the Clippers on Wednesday night. It's known the Bulls have had talks with the Kings, though it's unclear who on that roster interests the Bulls.



I think - as mentioned in another thread - that Bulls are interested in Thomas & one of your point guards, in addition to the obvious Miller.....

As in Kenny Thomas?

IF so that means the Bulls are trying for salary dump, and I doubt there's enough value on the Bulls to justify that from the Kings POV.

Hence, no deal, STILL...

I'm sure talks around Miller - Noah swap are what's happening.

[Ballings7]

Noah would be sweet on this team for now and later...

He's an underrated passer and handler for a big guy, aside from being active, and a presence on defense and rebounding

I'd look foward to watching games more with a younger, more well-rounded big man group around (Hawes/Thompson/Noah, and maybe Shelden).. rather than mediocre, too flawed, and basically offensively-biased like we've had (not including Hawes/Thompson).

I still want to see what Shelden can do with consistent minutes, even if not here, then elsewhere.

[Smills91]

Noah would be sweet on this team for now and later...

He's an underrated passer and handler for a big guy, aside from being active, and a presence on defense and rebounding

I'd look foward to watching games more with a younger, more well-rounded big man group around... rather than mediocre, too flawed, and basically offensively-biased like we've had.

I still want to see what Shelden can do with consistent minutes, even if not here, then elsewhere.

Shelden's offense is BRUTAL. It's a thing that makes baby cries it's so hideous. His jumper is probably his best weapon and even that's average at best. His low-post moves make me want bury my head in the sand as I think, did he really just do that as he falls down. Defensively he's solid and that's what will give him a DEEP role on any roster. I can't believe how inept his offense is though.

[Tommy Udo 6]

Bulls desperately need front court help. Gooden, Gray, Tyrus Thomas & Noah have all been inconsistent. Bulls have done surprising well, based on Guard play - but the only games where Bulls have been blown out are against teams that are loaded at PF & C

Bulls also need a back up PG. Thabo has been so bad he's had at least 6 DNP-CDs in a row & Hinrich is injured. Rose is showing signs of wearing down. 40+ minutes every game is a lot for a 20 year old rookie used to a college schedule

Since Hinrich is injured & Deng is BYC, the only possible salary dumpee would be Nocioni - but he scored over 20 last night & is useful to the team. However, dumping is not necessary - if Bulls dont resign Gordon & Gooden, they will easily avoid Lux Tax next year.

I think interest in Kenny Thomas & Miller is due to necessity, not salary dumping....

[cdt3]

If you have ever played a lot of basketball, only playing at game speed a lot gets you sharper on your moves. If you do not get enough time you cannot get a feel for something in the game. I have been a high school baseball coach, some kids can just do it in practice then go directly in the game, some aren't as confident need to get a feel for it in real life. It's like the kid who you tell not to touch something because it is dangerous and others will have to touch it on their own. There are guys who are immdeiately confident like JT, then guys who take some time and experience to get better. Hawes and Shelden are like just a little less confident. I have no doubt Shelden could put up at least 15/10/2 blocks if he played starter ,minutes. If you watched the preseason we played 2 games against Portland and Shelden played big roles in both games and both games were very close. The TBlazers bigs are just so big and athletic for Miller/Moore/Hawes/JT. We also shot horribly in both games in season, they just pushed us around with really no Shelden involved in them. This was the reason Petrie got Shelden to begin with but Reggie wanted to run the triangle and wanted bigs to shoot and run which was why Shelden wasn't getting a lot of playtime. But with no rebounding you can't run. David West was unathletic and had no jumpshot when he was drafted and was a slow improvement. Guess who was the leading scorer on Deng's college team? Shelden, but yet you want to trade for Deng for scoring. Especially with the Kings as not a real FA destination you have to develop your talent. I still don't know why they don't move JT to SF, Shelden at PF, and Hawes at C. JT could lock down guys athletic SF and dominate big SF. I think it make us so versatile to give us enough beef to compete with all the big or depth for small frontlines. I don't know what this trade does for us we can unload Miller/Moore for cap relief down the road, and we can try Bobby Brown at the PG to see what he brings (he averaged Bibby like 20/5 in college). If he doesn't work out we can get who ever we want in the draft. I think Shelden's defense would help Hawes (Hawes is like Miller and gets owned occasionally by some players like Bynum and Oden) and JT, and their offensive strength would help Shelden. It will take a few years to develop but keep Donte also he could be a 6th man of the year for us. We just have a lot a talent they are just stuck behind Miller and Moore, and have not developed yet but we need to be on the same page. What offense is our new coach running?

[Bac2Basics]

I don't see the Kings & Bulls as good trading partners.
All the players that the Bulls would look to move are unlikely to be of interest to the Kings.

[SacTown Kings]

I don't see the Kings & Bulls as good trading partners.
All the players that the Bulls would look to move are unlikely to be of interest to the Kings.

I wouldn't mind having Noah or Tyrus as long as we are not taking back bad contracts/ruining our cap situation for 09 or 10.

[ICMTM]

Any mention of Luol Deng?

[Tommy Udo 6]

Any mention of Luol Deng?

he's BYC & thus very difficult to trade this season - but he's not untouchable. Doubtful Bulls will trade him this season

[Smills91]

Any mention of Luol Deng?

he's BYC & thus very difficult to trade this season - but he's not untouchable. Doubtful Bulls will trade him this season

ICMTM has a man-crush on Deng. I'm not nearly as high on him. I doubt the Kings(Petrie) are either.

The guys that interest the Kings, IMO are:

1) Derrick Rose - OBVIOUSLY, but I doubt the Kings could put together a reasonable package that would entice the Bulls.
2) Joakim Noah - would be a nice fit off the bench behind Hawes/Thompson
3) Tyrus Thomas - less desirable than Noah but a 'nicety'
4) Drew Gooden - Would be a nice short term fix, but is desirable due to his larger expiring contract.


After that it's a STEEP decline on the Bulls roster as far as the Kings are concerned. Anything past 2010 other than Rose is HIGHLY unlikely to happen.

Which leaves Hughes, Simmons, Gray, Gordon, Seolosha, Hunter as possible 'filler' contracts to make a deal here.

[Smills91]

I don't see the Kings & Bulls as good trading partners.
All the players that the Bulls would look to move are unlikely to be of interest to the Kings.

You say this EVERY time. And it's a straight COP OUT.

THe Bulls and Kings make GREAT trade partners because the Bulls have a need to improve their fornt court and they have young pieces.

[pillwenney]

Shelden's offense is BRUTAL. It's a thing that makes baby cries it's so hideous. His jumper is probably his best weapon and even that's average at best. His low-post moves make me want bury my head in the sand as I think, did he really just do that as he falls down. Defensively he's solid and that's what will give him a DEEP role on any roster. I can't believe how inept his offense is though.

Shelden doesn't have great offense, but that shouldn't be his role. Like, if you gave Jeff Foster the ball in isolation, it would also look hideous. But that's not his role, and Shelden should never be placed in that situation. Personally, I think he should just focus on being a mid-range jump-shooter. In the very little we've seen of him this year, his mid-range shot has looked fine (we haven't really seen enough to judge, but I'm sure the coaching staff has). I still maintain that he should look at Kurt Thomas as a model for the type of player he can be.

[SacKingZZZ]

Something around Noah sounds right. How about a deal centered around Gordon though? I know the Kings have had interest in the past and I still think he'd be a great PG for Petries system.


Kings trade:

John Salmons
Brad Miller
Mikki Moore
Bobby Brown
1st rounder from Houston

Bulls trade:

Ben Gordon
Joakim Noah
Larry Hughes

[SacKingZZZ]

Shelden's offense is BRUTAL. It's a thing that makes baby cries it's so hideous. His jumper is probably his best weapon and even that's average at best. His low-post moves make me want bury my head in the sand as I think, did he really just do that as he falls down. Defensively he's solid and that's what will give him a DEEP role on any roster. I can't believe how inept his offense is though.

Shelden doesn't have great offense, but that shouldn't be his role. Like, if you gave Jeff Foster the ball in isolation, it would also look hideous. But that's not his role, and Shelden should never be placed in that situation. Personally, I think he should just focus on being a mid-range jump-shooter. In the very little we've seen of him this year, his mid-range shot has looked fine (we haven't really seen enough to judge, but I'm sure the coaching staff has). I still maintain that he should look at Kurt Thomas as a model for the type of player he can be.

That could be a good idea. That is the type of role Shelden could fill for a team.

[AyyJude]

I'm not a big Noah fan, he is way over rated. I was glad the Bulls picked him instead of Spencer. Had Noah and Spencer been available I was afraid Petrie might have picked Noah instead of Spencer. I think Noah may be a cancer someday. Last year he got suspended by his own team mates. When was the last time team mates have suspended a player? Give Spencer a little more time and I think he'll be an all-Star player in about 3 yrs. Somebody send the Bulls a Christmas card thanking them for picking Noah instead of Spencer.

[pillwenney]

I'm not a big Noah fan, he is way over rated. I was glad the Bulls picked him instead of Spencer. Had Noah and Spencer been available I was afraid Petrie might have picked Noah instead of Spencer. I think Noah may be a cancer someday. Last year he got suspended by his own team mates. When was the last time team mates have suspended a player? Give Spencer a little more time and I think he'll be an all-Star player in about 3 yrs. Somebody send the Bulls a Christmas card thanking them for picking Noah instead of Spencer.

I don't expect Noah to be as good as Spencer either, but I'd still like him on this team.

[AyyJude]

If you have ever played a lot of basketball, only playing at game speed a lot gets you sharper on your moves. If you do not get enough time you cannot get a feel for something in the game. I have been a high school baseball coach, some kids can just do it in practice then go directly in the game, some aren't as confident need to get a feel for it in real life. It's like the kid who you tell not to touch something because it is dangerous and others will have to touch it on their own. There are guys who are immdeiately confident like JT, then guys who take some time and experience to get better. Hawes and Shelden are like just a little less confident. I have no doubt Shelden could put up at least 15/10/2 blocks if he played starter ,minutes. If you watched the preseason we played 2 games against Portland and Shelden played big roles in both games and both games were very close. The TBlazers bigs are just so big and athletic for Miller/Moore/Hawes/JT. We also shot horribly in both games in season, they just pushed us around with really no Shelden involved in them. This was the reason Petrie got Shelden to begin with but Reggie wanted to run the triangle and wanted bigs to shoot and run which was why Shelden wasn't getting a lot of playtime. But with no rebounding you can't run. David West was unathletic and had no jumpshot when he was drafted and was a slow improvement. Guess who was the leading scorer on Deng's college team? Shelden, but yet you want to trade for Deng for scoring. Especially with the Kings as not a real FA destination you have to develop your talent. I still don't know why they don't move JT to SF, Shelden at PF, and Hawes at C. JT could lock down guys athletic SF and dominate big SF. I think it make us so versatile to give us enough beef to compete with all the big or depth for small frontlines. I don't know what this trade does for us we can unload Miller/Moore for cap relief down the road, and we can try Bobby Brown at the PG to see what he brings (he averaged Bibby like 20/5 in college). If he doesn't work out we can get who ever we want in the draft. I think Shelden's defense would help Hawes (Hawes is like Miller and gets owned occasionally by some players like Bynum and Oden) and JT, and their offensive strength would help Shelden. It will take a few years to develop but keep Donte also he could be a 6th man of the year for us. We just have a lot a talent they are just stuck behind Miller and Moore, and have not developed yet but we need to be on the same page. What offense is our new coach running?

I'd like to see a little more Sheldon also. I think we haven't realy seen what this guy can do. The only problem is as long as Miller and Moore are in the picture he won't get much action. Against the Blazers I thought Sheldon should have been used more to guard Oden. In the pre-season or first game against the Blazers (can't remember what game) he guarded him straight up and did the best job guarding him. He can come in and lean on other teams BIGS and be a bruiser... and ever team needs a guy like that to come off the bench and do some dirty work. Sheldon can be this type of guy. But like I said will never know as long as Miller and Moore are in the picture.

[Downtown]

Being a Seattle fan I watched Kurt Thomas a fair bit. One of the main things that seperates him from Sheldon Williams is his smarts and the ability to read plays developing. For a guy who isn't the biggest at either power forward or center( Thomas is 6'9" and only 235-240lbs.) he holds his own. Positioning, footwork, and seeing things develop made him good. That same instinct made him a very good help defender as well.

Onto Williams. He seems slow, a little unsure of where he should be in relation to the motion of the other teams offence, and doesn't react to be a helper. I think Sheldon Williams absolute ceiling would be Kurt Thomas. But he does have those stretches where he loooks imposing so maybe it's just a matter of time and learning, but you would think that given the college program and coaching he came from he would already have those ingredients in place.

He's a bit of an enigma for sure.

[SacKingZZZ]

Being a Seattle fan I watched Kurt Thomas a fair bit. One of the main things that seperates him from Sheldon Williams is his smarts and the ability to read plays developing. For a guy who isn't the biggest at either power forward or center( Thomas is 6'9" and only 235-240lbs.) he holds his own. Positioning, footwork, and seeing things develop made him good. That same instinct made him a very good help defender as well.

Onto Williams. He seems slow, a little unsure of where he should be in relation to the motion of the other teams offence, and doesn't react to be a helper. I think Sheldon Williams absolute ceiling would be Kurt Thomas. But he does have those stretches where he loooks imposing so maybe it's just a matter of time and learning, but you would think that given the college program and coaching he came from he would already have those ingredients in place.

He's a bit of an enigma for sure.

I think a lot of it is attitude based. He seems to not be liking that mega important bench role we've laid out for him. He gets frustrated very easily and I think in a lot of ways he's kind of given up. When we traded for him he expected to get more than the 15 mpg he got in Atlanta his first year and he'll be extremely lucky if he gets anywhere close to that kind of time here. He did get rookie of the month near the end of his first year. He's shown he can can produce in a Kurt Thomas like manner per 48 as well. I think if he was to start playing 35 mpg with us tomorrow he'd end up at the end of the year getting you 10 ppg, 10 rpg, and 1 bpg. Kurt Thomas like numbers for sure, but of course, at present time we need a LOT more than that.