Martin to Toronto + Salmons/Bargnani Trade

Test of Wills · Post #1 » by **Test of Wills** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 8:49 pm

I'm Raptor fan and we obviously need a wing but I just wanted to know if your GM Geoff Petrie has offered or even hesitated to put Kevin Martin on the block?

I know you guys gotta some wings in Salmons, Garcia, Martin.

What would reasonable price for any of them be?

Bargnani and Moon/Parker
For
Kenny Thomas, John Salmons and Francisco Garcia

[changed thread title to reflect what's been posted]

Post #2 » by **ICMTM** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 9:14 pm

That wouldn't be the deal. I don't think anyone is talking about moving Kevin Martin. And if you're talking trade for Martin with out including Jose Calderon in the conversation at a minimum, well conversation over.

I don't think the Kings are looking for either player you're proposing to move.

RIPskaterdude · Post #3 » by **RIPskaterdude** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 9:14 pm

Martin will not be moved unless a young star (Bosh comes to mind) is coming back to Sacramento...but unless something amazing is offered, he won't be traded. And the Kings aren't looking to trade Salmons AND Garcia. Most likely, only Salmons will be moved. The price for Salmons is good role player/expiring/1st.

SacKingZZZ · Post #4 » by **SacKingZZZ** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 9:25 pm

I have never heard a peep about Martin even being talked about in trades and if Petrie thinks as much of him as he did his boy Peja, he won't even be traded for LeBron James or Kobe Bryant. :wink:

No, seriously I haven't heard anything but I don't see it as impossible. The only way I see the Kings considering moving Martin is if there is a legit star big man coming back the other way or Salmons and Garcia really start working well together and we somehow start winning with them as the focal point. I just don't think we are there as a team yet.

As for the trade the Kings wouldn't even consider that one.

Post #5 » by **ICMTM** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 9:36 pm

I really think Martin, if traded, would be traded for a poing guard and not a big. We have two good bigs already, and we could get another one in the draft.

EventHorizon · Post #6 » by **EventHorizon** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 10:29 pm

I'd give you Calderon + Bargnani for Martin.

RIPskaterdude · Post #7 » by **RIPskaterdude** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 10:36 pm

^^ I hope you'd be throwing in a #1 draft pick with that, as well. Bargnani is a semi-bust, and Calderon is no where near his equal value right now. Martin may be injured, but when he's on, he's better than 95% of the guards in this league.

SacKingZZZ · Post #8 » by **SacKingZZZ** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 10:52 pm

ICMTM wrote:I really think Martin, if traded, would be traded for a poing guard and not a big. We have two good bigs already, and we could get another one in the draft.

Just by sheer numbers and odds I'd place it on a big man. We still don't have a "sure thing" big man, and there are far less "sure thing" PG's, and even less teams willing to part with the ones that are.

Smills91 · Post #9 » by **Smills91** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 11:11 pm

Rumor on hoopsworld(i know I know - but even a blind squirrel finds an acorn) is talking about Salmons for Bargnani/1st.

Smills91 · Post #10 » by **Smills91** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 11:14 pm

I'd offer up Martin/Thompson and Houston's 1st for an extended Chris Bosh.

Post #11 » by **pillwenney** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 11:15 pm

I wouldn't be opposed to trading Kevin, but not for anything on Toronto outside of Bosh. And that is of course unlikely.

Salmons may be a different story.

Downtown · Post #12 » by **Downtown** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 11:52 pm

Smills, I thought about Bosh as well. I also felt that Martin, Thompson, and your unprotected 2010 first round pick would be in the neighborhood, even though it's extremely unlikely Toronto would even entertain such an idea as trading Chris Bosh.

Martin becomes their top scorer, Thompson is their starting power forward, and we'll worry about the first round pick later. But it will never happen. Bosh is the only one that shows any heart on that team, although Calderon tries I suppose.

I posted on the Raptors board about Bargnani and Toronto's first rounder for Salmons. I have watched pretty much every Toronto game this season( I live in Vancouver, get Raptors TV, and don't have the regional blackouts that Toronto has). I mentioned that this deal would make Toronto better, and that Sacramento would only make this trade if the Brad Miller for Gerlad Wallace rumor came true.

Toronto fans are split on Bargnani. Some realize he is far, far from being on the level that a #1 overall pick should be, and others think that after the 3 or so years he's been in the league that he will come around to being an allstar.

Myself I'm inclined to thinking he is still going to get better but his ceiling is much lower than most Raptors fans want to believe. I mean just because he has a great outside shot means nothing really. Brian Cook for goodness sakes can do that. If you draft a 7 footer at #1 you hope he can at least play a tiny bit of post up game or bang inside. Bargnani can do neither. He really needs to do some heavy studying of Dirk Nowitski tapes. That's the kind of player he is, only far from being at that level.

Post #13 » by **KF10** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 1:03 am

Trading Kevin Martin is an unrealistic thing to do. But I do believe he can be traded for a right price though. (Even though, it is like 99% unlikely) In this situation, outside of Bosh, there is NO combination of players that can land Martin.

SacKingZZZ · Post #14 » by **SacKingZZZ** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 1:29 am

Smills91 wrote:Rumor on hoopsworld(i know I know - but even a blind squirrel finds an acorn) is talking about Salmons for Bargnani/1st.

Depending on the protection on the pick I'd do that. If it's unprotected I'd do that instantly. Maybe even if it's lotto protected. I'd wouldn't mind getting Bargnani at all. Unfortunately it's hoopsworld so 99% it's made up crap. :lol:

Post #15 » by **ICMTM** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 1:43 am

Toronto almost signed Salmons so they've been interested for a while. I don't know about Bargnani? I see at best a Donte Greene type player in him, and we just traded for Donte Greene.

Smills91 · Post #16 » by **Smills91** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 5:14 am

Downtown wrote:Smills, I thought about Bosh as well. I also felt that Martin, Thompson, and your unprotected 2010 first round pick would be in the neighborhood, even though it's extremely unlikely Toronto would even entertain such an idea as trading Chris Bosh.

Martin becomes their top scorer, Thompson is their starting power forward, and we'll worry about the first round pick later. But it will never happen. Bosh is the only one that shows any heart on that team, although Calderon tries I suppose.

I posted on the Raptors board about Bargnani and Toronto's first rounder for Salmons. I have watched pretty much every Toronto game this season( I live in Vancouver, get Raptors TV, and don't have the regional blackouts that Toronto has). I mentioned that this deal would make Toronto better, and that Sacramento would only make this trade if the Brad Miller for Gerlad Wallace rumor came true.

Toronto fans are split on Bargnani. Some realize he is far, far from being on the level that a #1 overall pick should be, and others think that after the 3 or so years he's been in the league that he will come around to being an allstar.

Myself I'm inclined to thinking he is still going to get better but his ceiling is much lower than most Raptors fans want to believe. I mean just because he has a great outside shot means nothing really. Brian Cook for goodness sakes can do that. If you draft a 7 footer at #1 you hope he can at least play a tiny bit of post up game or bang inside. Bargnani can do neither. He really needs to do some heavy studying of Dirk Nowitski tapes. That's the kind of player he is, only far from being at that level.

No reasonable GM is going to give up an unprotected 1st round pick during a rebuild, even if that nets a star player, because if there's one thing in the NBA, there are ZERO gaurantees. Houston's pick, Jason Thompson who looks to be a top 5 player from his draft class AND our overall best player is quite the price to pay. There's no way you're getting an unprotected 1st in that deal as well.

If you wanted an unprotected first THAT in and of itself is the value you seek and you'd like getting salary filler like Kenny Thomas/Mikki Moore etc.

So you can take your pick: Martin/Thompson/Houston 1st

OR

Thomas/Moore/unprotected 2010 pick

But you're not getting your cake and eating it too.

Gold Chain · Post #17 » by **Gold Chain** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 6:21 pm

I think Bargnani would be a nice piece for the Kings to build with.

Downtown · Post #18 » by **Downtown** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 9:58 pm

Realistically there's a 1% at best chance of Toronto trading Chris Bosh so it's back to Salmons for Bargnani and whatever else it takes. Toronto fans are having the same debate. I would say it's evenly split about Bargnani and their first round pick for Salmons. Rightfully so they feel there should be some protection on the pick. But top 8 is about as far as I would go if I were Petrie.

There is no evidence that Andreas Bargnani is going to become a key contributor for Sacramento while we all know what John Salmons is capable of. That pick is to level the playing field so there has to be a value limit on any protection.

I also feel that Bargnani doesn't make sense unless there is another deal in the works with Miller and/or Moore for perimiter help to offset the loss of Salmons. Two seperate deals or Barganani and Joey Graham plus the pick for Salmons and Moore? Please resist any talk of Jason Kapono though.

sh00n · Post #19 » by **sh00n** » Wed Dec 24, 2008 1:51 am

Smills91 wrote:I'd offer up Martin/Thompson and Houston's 1st for an extended Chris Bosh.

Come on, man. . . honestly?

Smills91 · Post #20 » by **Smills91** » Wed Dec 24, 2008 3:49 am

sh00n wrote:
Smills91 wrote:I'd offer up Martin/Thompson and Houston's 1st for an extended Chris Bosh.

Come on, man. . . honestly?

Honestly? Really? you think Bosh can net more than a 25 year near all-star SG, a top 5 PF replacement from the 2008 draft class and another 1st round pick, oh and of course Mikki Moore(essentially an expiring) would need to be included to match salaries.

If you think that, you're nuts. Name me the last time an all-star player was dealt for that much VALUE with zero GARBAGE back...just once in the past 20 years.