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Hello Kings fans. Merge if you wish, but I thought it might be useful to you to have a thread that describes the two Bulls players that you just traded for. Hope you like it.


Nocioni is pretty ruthless. He's hard, but not dirty, a bit like how I like my sex. He's aggressive and passionate, and really wants to win, even when he doesn't achieve it. He's also a good shooter, and he has this little fallaway shot in the lane from about 12 feet that he hits literally every time. He plays decent man to man defense, with occasional spurts of genius, and his flop (like it or not) works like a charm. He can play some power forward, utilising his flop to good effect whenever someone tries to back him down (his charge taking is waaaaaaay down, however, due in part to the fact that the Bulls use to have a defensive system that sent all penetrating opponents to the middle......and now they don't have a defensive system at all). He doesn't have any post up offense or much touch inside; his scoring is almost exclusively from the jumpshot and the open floor. But on those rare occasions that he posterizes someone on the break, it's freaking mint. You'll love that/

However, his three major flaws are fatally big. He's the worst dribbling small forward that you've ever seen, and he's developed into a raging chucker. He also plays soooooooo much help defense that it's actually detrimental - Nocioni leaves his man open time and time and time again. He's always done this, and no matter how aggressive and quick he is to close out, it often costs him. He helps where help isn't needed, collapses the defense unnecessarily, and can cost you. He's also occasionally partial to really stupid plays sometimes, such as fouling people when they're calling a timeout and other such joy like that. And he moans to the refs a lot.

You have to keep Nocioni on a very, very tight leash. Scott Skiles did, and as a result Nocioni's flaws were deemed secondary to his strengths, so much so that he earned (admittedly erroneous) DPOY votes. That version of Nocioni was a good friggin' player, and he was paid accordingly. But if he's allowed to, he'll play help defense equivalent to a Mavericks-era Rodman, and he'll chuck like a Knicks-era Lee Nailon. He could be good for you. Or he could not. To be honest, that's your coaching staff's call.

You'll like him as a person, and you'll like his intent as a player. But he will frustrate seven shades of smegma out of you.

Gooden's much the same. He has some touch around the rim, but plays mostly away from it. He has good rebounding instincts, and good size (he came into the league a little thin, but he sure as hell isn't now). However, he has the worst defensive rotations you've ever seen. He just rotates the wrong way every time. Then again, since he's currently injured and you only want him for his contract anyway, he may never take the floor for you. So this is perhaps irrelevant.

Good luck with the duo. You can win from this trade if it all falls your way.

Appreciate the writeup Sham. I will too give a lengthy write up for the Bulls nation (forum) later today or so.

Don't waste your time. This was a FINANCIALLY driven move, that doesn't help us financially.

Well it does immediately (i.e. next year), which was the unashamed aim. Nocioni's contract is a year too long, but it will always be moveable, as proven by the fact that we just moved it while his value was at its lowest ebb. So don't fret about that.

Between this and the Shareef enws, you've opened up a lot of wiggle room in the next two years. Cap flexibility is important, perhaps moreso than cap room.

Oh and since you apparently got Cedric Simmons in the deal, I ought tell yout he good news/bad news thing surrounding him.

Bad news = he's possibly the worst player in the league. Literally good at nothing except one nice blocked shot a year.
Good news = he's expiring too, so sod it.

As a Bulls fan, just to add a few more things. I have been more up than down on Nocioni myself.

He definitely plays with a lot of energy, and there will be nights that you will love him for it.

He is not the type of talent that can win games for you by himself, but he can sometimes keep you in games. He tends to step his game up a notch, when the rest of the team is playing like crap. On nights that the other guys are playing well, he is more likely to sit back chucking shots from the outside.

Back when we were in the playoffs, he was also able to step it up.

He is good for a few hard fouls each and every night. He doesn't seem to be well liked around the league for this reason. If a guy is going for a layup or dunk, and there within Noc's wingspan, it's a given that there going to get hit.

Sham wrote:Well it does immediately (i.e. next year), which was the unashamed aim. Nocioni's contract is a year too long, but it will always be moveable, as proven by the fact that we just moved it while his value was at its lowest ebb. So don't fret about that.

Between this and the Shareef enws, you've opened up a lot of wiggle room in the next two years. Cap flexibility is important, perhaps moreso than cap room.

we lose out on 13.5 million NEXT year, but add over 14 million total which offsets the gain. it's actually a net loss before you factor in that Salmons is likely to opt out of his final year which just adds to the retardedness of the deal. Magoofs should be shot.

Salmons has an option?

I hope Nocioni plays light out!!!!

we lose out on 13.5 million NEXT year, but add over 14 million total which offsets the gain. it's actually a net loss before you factor in that Salmons is likely to opt out of his final year which just adds to the retardedness of the deal. Magoofs should be shot.

They're banking on the idea that Nocioni is going to bounce back to be somewhere like where he was. They might well be right.

Nocioni has the ability to get into an opponent's head like very few in the NBA can do.

He has fallen in love with the 3 pointer in recent years, sort of a poor man's Antoine Walker.

Back when he was a step quicker, he could slash into the lane and finish somewhat competently (see 05-06 playoffs)

I haven't met few Bulls fans that completely hate Nocioni. It's actually pretty difficult to fully hate Nocioni because of the heart, passion, hustle and aggressiveness he gives you on a nightly basis. Unfortunately its pretty difficult to fully love Nocioni either because of his stupid errors and defensive lapses. Still, a large majority of Bulls fans will always have a place in their hearts for Noc. I know I'll miss him.

If one thing is for certain, you are getting a unique player.

After the financial importance this is a trade to toughen up the defense. Nocioni is the opposite of Greene and will statrt until Donte is ready to take the starter position in 2-3 years. You know that we rountinely get killed on the boards and Noc should help that since Salmons and Martin were always looking to shoot. You know that presence we have missed since Artest, Salmons was really a SG not a SF and played great d against guards but not not SFs.
The Kings will keep the better of Gooden and Williams since both expire and are enforcers.
Simmons had Hawes like stats in college and will challenge Hawes for the center position. This trade tells me the Maloofs let Petrie make the call and that we will be drafting a dynamic PG to finish the rebuilding. I like the trade. We lacked toughness at the SF after losing Artest and we added toughness at the SF while we let Greene matures.
This also tells me Ben Gordon might be available with Salmons in Chicago, do we have the money to run at him or wait for the draft? Maybe the #1 to Chicago for BG.

Thank you very much for stopping by. I'm sure salmons will help out tremendously and help get you guys to the playoffs. And I'm sure miller will be servicable and overall help out the team. Have fun with watching his pure lack of defense though, and weed smoking haha.

KM44 wrote:Thank you very much for stopping by. I'm sure salmons will help out tremendously and help get you guys to the playoffs. And I'm sure miller will be servicable and overall help out the team. Have fun with watching his pure lack of defense though, and weed smoking haha.

So that makes two pothead centers on our roster. He and Noah will get along just fine.

Cdt3, I wouldn't call Gooden an enforcer. He may look the part, but I couldn't say he plays it. If your looking for an enforcer, you definitely got one in Noc, That guy isn't scared of anyone.

Gooden is more of an offensive player that could rebound. He has a nice shot, but is not much of a enforcer, or defender.

umfan83 wrote:Nocioni has the ability to get into an opponent's head like very few in the NBA can do.

He has fallen in love with the 3 pointer in recent years, sort of a poor man's Antoine Walker.

Back when he was a step quicker, he could slash into the lane and finish somewhat competently (see 05-06 playoffs)

I haven't met few Bulls fans that completely hate Nocioni. It's actually pretty difficult to fully hate Nocioni because of the heart, passion, hustle and aggressiveness he gives you on a nightly basis. Unfortunately its pretty difficult to fully love Nocioni either because of his stupid errors and defensive lapses. Still, a large majority of Bulls fans will always have a place in their hearts for Noc. I know I'll miss him.

If one thing is for certain, you are getting a unique player.

A poor man's?

This trade was worse than I thought if that's true.

So our roster currently looks like:

C: Spencer Hawes, Mikki Moore, Shelden Williams, Cedric Simmons
PF: Jason Thompson, Drew Gooden, Kenny Thomas, Ike Diogu
SF: Francisco Garcia, Donte Greene, Andres Nocioni
SG: Kevin Martin, Bobby Jackson
PG: Beno Udrih, Bobby Brown

As we're waiving Douby/Casselian.

That roster is AWFUL

Bulls fan here.

Nocioni was the first player I really liked in the post-Jordan era. Regardless of how he is playing, he is one of the more entertaining players on the floor. You'll like him.

Sham pretty much covered it. Probably the best flopper in the league, and his fake pleas to refs after he fouls someone are classic. Definitely one of the hardest defenders in the league. In fact he could have played on the 90's Knicks or Bad Boy era Pistons.

His offense has been up and down this year, but I blame it on an inconsistent team. He was often taking lead shooting roles, and that isn't his offensive game. He plugs in best to an opportunist role.

Smills91 wrote:So our roster currently looks like:

C: Spencer Hawes, Mikki Moore, Shelden Williams, Cedric Simmons
PF: Jason Thompson, Drew Gooden, Kenny Thomas, Ike Diogu
SF: Francisco Garcia, Donte Greene, Andres Nocioni
SG: Kevin Martin, Bobby Jackson
PG: Beno Udrih, Bobby Brown

As we're waiving Douby/Casselian.

That roster is AWFUL

Haha, I doubt Nocioni will be 3rd in the rotation SF and I'd be surprised if Gooden wasn't the guy at PF from here on out.

C3 wrote:As a Bulls fan, just to add a few more things. I have been more up than down on Nocioni myself.

He definitely plays with a lot of energy, and there will be nights that you will love him for it.

He is not the type of talent that can win games for you by himself, but he can sometimes keep you in games. He tends to step his game up a notch, when the rest of the team is playing like crap. On nights that the other guys are playing well, he is more likely to sit back chucking shots from the outside.

Back when we were in the playoffs, he was also able to step it up.

He is good for a few hard fouls each and every night. He doesn't seem to be well liked around the league for this reason. If a guy is going for a layup or dunk, and there within Noc's wingspan, it's a given that there going to get hit.

That should be nice since for us that's every night.

Hey good luck guys with Noc, you guys are getting one fun player to watch. He will give you everything he has.