RealGM

I've been thinking if we draft Griffin, how everyone wants to dump JT. But what about if we traded Spencer and put Jason at center? He played it some this year and looked pretty good there. I feel he'll be the better defender in the long term, and the better rebounder. He's big enough at 6'11'' and strong enough at 250-260.

BMiller52 wrote:I've been thinking if we draft Griffin, how everyone wants to dump JT. But what about if we traded Spencer and put Jason at center? He played it some this year and looked pretty good there. I feel he'll be the better defender in the long term, and the better rebounder. He's big enough at 6'11'' and strong enough at 250-260.

My overall preference is still keep JT, keep Spencer and keep Griffin.

Run Hawes/Griffin as the starters and have JT sub in behind playing both the 4 and 5...I think that's a VERY strong frontcourt trio and they all have complementing skillsets. That's my 1st option.

If I was Petrie, I keep the tandem of Thompson/Griffin/Hawes frontcourt. I don't understand the whole "dumping JT for a PG" deal, it's silly IMO. Well, it's fine to look at all the options but trading Thompson right away after we draft Griffin, is something I'm against of. We have the whole summer, next year trade deadline and next year draft/offseason to obtain the PG. Heck, we can get a quality PG in this years draft. This is one of the deepest PG prospects draft in terms of quality I seen in years.

Hawes has more potential imo. If its between the two and we have Griffin I'd take Hawes rather easily.

You do not trade a Spencer Hawes level talent to replace him with a Jason Thompson level talent. Keep all 3.

JT is a hair better than Hawes because he can get to the free throw line where Hawes makes all his points from jumpers. JT is the leader he was the one being fearless against the big name NBA bigs where Hawes gets intimidated sometimes. JT is also a hair better better rebounder. I still think JT is talented enough to play the 3 like Odom if we get Griffin. I think JT covers for Hawes weaknesses and allows him to be better offensively with or without Griffin. Hawes is no slouch, JT is just a little better. I agree they make a potentially great combo without Griffin and all three are too much to trade.

Jt and Griffin are the same type of player. Hawes adds a different aspect to the game. I really do not understand the infatuation with Thompson. He was solid. He is not a star. He will be 23, Hawes will be 21. I like thompson, but unlike many delusional fans I do not think he is great. I believe Thompson can be good, but Hawes can be great. Griffin can be great. Jennings can be great.

Get off the idea of Thompson being anything more than a solid starter. I know I am going to get s*** for saying this, but o well. I am just trying to be real with my evaluations. And in being real I am going to say Kings fans overvalue there own and close there eyes to true player evaluation. It like holding onto the Bobby Jackson thing. He is done, over the hill, and offers little to the team. We won 17 games with him, you think we win less without him? NO. I am just asking people to be realistic with there evaluations of players.

murray wrote:Jt and Griffin are the same type of player. Hawes adds a different aspect to the game. I really do not understand the infatuation with Thompson. He was solid. He is not a star. He will be 23, Hawes will be 21. I like thompson, but unlike many delusional fans I do not think he is great. I believe Thompson can be good, but Hawes can be great. Griffin can be great. Jennings can be great.

Get off the idea of Thompson being anything more than a solid starter. I know I am going to get s*** for saying this, but o well. I am just trying to be real with my evaluations. And in being real I am going to say Kings fans overvalue there own and close there eyes to true player evaluation. It like holding onto the Bobby Jackson thing. He is done, over the hill, and offers little to the team. We won 17 games with him, you think we win less without him? NO. I am just asking people to be realistic with there evaluations of players.

What the hell? Just because I "evaluate" Hawes lower than JT does not mean I'm being unrealistic. It means I disagree with you. Just cuz this site has Real GM in the title doesn't make you a REAL GM whose opinions matter so much more than everyone else's, or that you can evaluate a player anymore than anyone else on this site. And I'm sorry but with a frontline of Griffin and Hawes we aren't winning **** because guess what, THEY ARE GOING TO BE TERRIBLE DEFENSIVELY. Griffin is 6'8'' and Hawes is weak for a 7 footer and doesn't rebound nearly as well as JT.

JT had 12/7 as a rookie, and just because he's 2 years older doesn't mean he has less potential. He was a late bloomer in the first place because he didn't grow to his full size until he was like 21. He's way stronger than Hawes, 10-15 pounds heavier already, a better athlete, nearly the same size, plays in the post more, and is a tougher player. JT's rookie numbers were better/just as good as Hawe's soph numbers, and he is a better defender. To be honest I think JT looked better whenever he got PT at C than Hawes did. JT was the one getting the critical PT in games like against GSW, the ones where we actually had a chance to win. I like both of the guys but you're hating on Jason and having a hard on for Griffin, and you don't even have that much to base this on.

BMiller52 wrote:

murray wrote:Jt and Griffin are the same type of player. Hawes adds a different aspect to the game. I really do not understand the infatuation with Thompson. He was solid. He is not a star. He will be 23, Hawes will be 21. I like thompson, but unlike many delusional fans I do not think he is great. I believe Thompson can be good, but Hawes can be great. Griffin can be great. Jennings can be great.

Get off the idea of Thompson being anything more than a solid starter. I know I am going to get s*** for saying this, but o well. I am just trying to be real with my evaluations. And in being real I am going to say Kings fans overvalue there own and close there eyes to true player evaluation. It like holding onto the Bobby Jackson thing. He is done, over the hill, and offers little to the team. We won 17 games with him, you think we win less without him? NO. I am just asking people to be realistic with there evaluations of players.

What the hell? Just because I "evaluate" Hawes lower than JT does not mean I'm being unrealistic. It means I disagree with you. Just cuz this site has Real GM in the title doesn't make you a REAL GM whose opinions matter so much more than everyone else's, or that you can evaluate a player anymore than anyone else on this site. And I'm sorry but with a frontline of Griffin and Hawes we aren't winning **** because guess what, THEY ARE GOING TO BE TERRIBLE DEFENSIVELY. Griffin is 6'8'' and Hawes is weak for a 7 footer and doesn't rebound nearly as well as JT.

JT had 12/7 as a rookie, and just because he's 2 years older doesn't mean he has less potential. He was a late bloomer in the first place because he didn't grow to his full size until he was like 21. He's way stronger than Hawes, 10-15 pounds heavier already, a better athlete, nearly the same size, plays in the post more, and is a tougher player. JT's rookie numbers were better/just as good as Hawe's soph numbers, and he is a better defender. To be honest I think JT looked better whenever he got PT at C than Hawes did. JT was the one getting the critical PT in games like against GSW, the ones where we actually had a chance to win. I like both of the guys but you're hating on Jason and having a hard on for Griffin, and you don't even have that much to base this on.

I was not talking about you in particular. This had been a heated topic for a while now. Not sure your info is correct though. Griffin is closer to 6'10" than 6'8". Hawes is 2 inches taller and bulking up daily. Jt got the time against GSW because 7'1" players have trouble guarding Small Fowards. I am not hating on Jason, just sick of everyone praising the 12-15th best player from last years draft.

Murray you refuse to believe that half of stars stats I have shown you were not all stars the first time they touched a ball in the NBA. Peja, Hedo, Salmons, Wallace, Bibby, Artest, KMart, JT, Hawes are just the Kings who took a couple years to develop. CWebb is the one and only Kings star who was an allstar every year. 1 guy in the last 10 years. Dude you are the world's biggest doubter.

Jason Thompson is simply better than Hawes. If you didn't watch the Phoenix game when Hawes was shaking in his boots and JT was out dunking on two of the best bigs in the game. Watch any Portland game and the team we will have to go through to win any playoff in the future and Hawes is owned by Oden. The reason JT and Hawes work well together is because JT plays tough against the good teams and Hawes plays good against the stinkers. That helps your team be balanced against good and bad competition.

JT has Tim Duncan potential. JT had zero defensive coaching this year and improved from 0.5 blocks in Oct, to 1.3 blocks in April. The coaching was so inconsistant this year and they had kid gloves on JT because Jason Williams couldn't deal with pressure as a rookie so they thought JT would be the same. They are totally different in dealing with pressure JT doesn't get bothered by pressure. The Maloofs totally blew it in using and promoting JT in a year they could have really used it.

cdt3 wrote:Murray you refuse to believe that half of stars stats I have shown you were not all stars the first time they touched a ball in the NBA. Peja, Hedo, Salmons, Wallace, Bibby, and Artest are just the Kings who took a couple years to develop. CWebb is the one and only Kings star who was an allstar every year. 1 guy in the last 10 years. Dude you are the world's biggest doubter.

Jason Thompson is simply better than Hawes. If you didn't watch the Phoenix game when Hawes was shaking in his boots and JT was out dunking on two of the best bigs in the game. Watch any Portland game and the team we will have to go through to win any playoff in the future and Hawes is owned by Oden. The reason JT and Hawes work well together is because JT plays tough against the good teams and Hawes plays good against the stinkers. That helps your team be balanced against good and bad competition.

JT has Tim Duncan potential. JT had zero defensive coaching this year and improved from 0.5 blocks in Oct, to 1.3 blocks in April. The coaching was so inconsistant this year and they had kid gloves on JT because Jason Williams couldn't deal with pressure as a rookie so they thought JT would be the same. They are totally different in dealing with pressure JT doesn't get bothered by pressure. The Maloofs totally blew it in using and promoting JT in a year they could have really used it.

I was really hoping you would not post to this, because I knew the irrational Duncan/Thompson comparison would come with it. Dude I like Hawes and Thompson. You are a Hawes hater. What I am saying, and not to get it mixed up for your JT fan boy world, is that Thompson and Griffin are too similiar and would give no inside outside presence like Divac/Webber.

Hawes/Griffin=Divac/Webber
Thompson/Griffin= Webber/Webber

I'm not calling anyone as talented as webber or Divac, just saying playing styles. Griffin just is a better player than JT. And Hawes is a different type player.

OK CDT3 let the JT is the greatest thing since Duncan argument continue, just don't get me involved.

It depends on what you mean by "solid starter". I'd argue that Jason is a solid starter right now. And just because he is an older rookie does not mean that he doesn't still have a ton of room to grow. Looking at age alone is short-sighted and foolish. Jason has a lot more to add to his game than the average player of his age. The main reason that I would say that Spencer has more upside is that his body has a lot more room to develop and they are pretty close in over all play right now. Spencer probably does have the higher ceiling, but people have to acknowledge that "ceiling" is not the same as "how good he will become". There is something to say for Jason and being the safer bet if we were to in fact look to trade one of them. But the main point of my post is that a 23-year-old, in the right circumstance, may have more room to grow than a 19-year-old. Age only has an indirect effect on a player's development.

I am not a Hawes hater the guy is a talented shooter. He is very athletic and can block shots. Hawes has Christian Laettner/Shareef offensive game (18/9) potential. Right now Hawes biggest weakness is he gets intimidated.

JT would be as good at the 3 because he can get to the basket or shoot a jumpshot and block shots from the weakside. JT could play C also because he has a very good jumper, can get to the basket and is our best defender. JT has 20+/10+ potential. Right now JT's biggest weakness is not intimidating enough in the paint defensively.

JT is a hair better. I would rather see them all play because there are just so many big SF's in the league (Carmelo, Odom, Hedo, Lebron I know there are more) where a guy like JT could still be too effective to trade.

Let's just wait for the lottery order.

cdt3 wrote:I am not a Hawes hater the guy is a talented shooter. He is very athletic and can block shots. Hawes has Christian Laettner/Shareef offensive game (18/9) potential. Right now Hawes biggest weakness is he gets intimidated.

JT would be as good at the 3 because he can get to the basket or shoot a jumpshot and block shots from the weakside. JT could play C also because he has a very good jumper, can get to the basket and is our best defender. JT has 20+/10+ potential. Right now JT's biggest weakness is not intimidating enough in the paint defensively.

JT is a hair better. I would rather see them all play because there are just so many big SF's in the league (Carmelo, Odom, Hedo, Lebron I know there are more) where a guy like JT could still be too effective to trade.

Let's just wait for the lottery order.

19/8 for hawes and 20+ 10+ for thompson? Dude get real. And JT does not have ball handling skills, hench he can not be a sf. Ok cdt3, back to the foe/ignore list.

JT scored 14 points in 11 touches a game in April while it took Hawes 16 touches to score 15 points. JT is more the more efficient scorer. Tim Duncan scored 25 points in his best year in 18 touches a game. JT gets to the freethrow line and is as efficient a scorer to get 20 points on 15 touches (TD did it this year). Those numbers are realistically in JT's reach while Hawes is more like a hair below 20.

murray wrote:19/8 for hawes and 20+ 10+ for thompson? Dude get real. And JT does not have ball handling skills, hench he can not be a sf. Ok cdt3, back to the foe/ignore list.

To be fair, he is a really good ball handler for a PF/C though. And he runs the floor really well.

kingsfan10 wrote:

murray wrote:19/8 for hawes and 20+ 10+ for thompson? Dude get real. And JT does not have ball handling skills, hench he can not be a sf. Ok cdt3, back to the foe/ignore list.

To be fair, he is a really good ball handler for a PF/C though. And he runs the floor really well.

Ya I will agree to that, but compared to Hedo or any of the other small forwards that cdt3 was talking about he absolutely gets left behind. He is a great ball handler for a PF/C, but would be the worst ball handling starting SF in the league.

1st I don't think anyone is saying "get rid" of Thompson OR Hawes for that matter if we get the #1. What some are saying is the duplication that a Thompson/Griffin front court brings, and the talent Thompson has, makes Thompson not only expendable but it could get us a very nice return.

I don't think anyone is saying Thompson has to go. What people are saying though is if we get Griffin I think we could see what we could get in return for JT. There's a HUGE difference.

BTW a Webber/Webber front court would be SICK! Bad analogy.

ICMTM wrote:1st I don't think anyone is saying "get rid" of Thompson OR Hawes for that matter if we get the #1. What some are saying is the duplication that a Thompson/Griffin front court brings, and the talent Thompson has, makes Thompson not only expendable but it could get us a very nice return.

I don't think anyone is saying Thompson has to go. What people are saying though is if we get Griffin I think we could see what we could get in return for JT. There's a HUGE difference.

BTW a Webber/Webber front court would be SICK! Bad analogy.

Yeah, Webber was talented enough that you could start 5 of him. i was just talking playing style though.

murray wrote:

cdt3 wrote:Murray you refuse to believe that half of stars stats I have shown you were not all stars the first time they touched a ball in the NBA. Peja, Hedo, Salmons, Wallace, Bibby, and Artest are just the Kings who took a couple years to develop. CWebb is the one and only Kings star who was an allstar every year. 1 guy in the last 10 years. Dude you are the world's biggest doubter.

Jason Thompson is simply better than Hawes. If you didn't watch the Phoenix game when Hawes was shaking in his boots and JT was out dunking on two of the best bigs in the game. Watch any Portland game and the team we will have to go through to win any playoff in the future and Hawes is owned by Oden. The reason JT and Hawes work well together is because JT plays tough against the good teams and Hawes plays good against the stinkers. That helps your team be balanced against good and bad competition.

JT has Tim Duncan potential. JT had zero defensive coaching this year and improved from 0.5 blocks in Oct, to 1.3 blocks in April. The coaching was so inconsistant this year and they had kid gloves on JT because Jason Williams couldn't deal with pressure as a rookie so they thought JT would be the same. They are totally different in dealing with pressure JT doesn't get bothered by pressure. The Maloofs totally blew it in using and promoting JT in a year they could have really used it.

I was really hoping you would not post to this, because I knew the irrational Duncan/Thompson comparison would come with it. Dude I like Hawes and Thompson. You are a Hawes hater. What I am saying, and not to get it mixed up for your JT fan boy world, is that Thompson and Griffin are too similiar and would give no inside outside presence like Divac/Webber.

Hawes/Griffin=Divac/Webber
Thompson/Griffin= Webber/Webber

I'm not calling anyone as talented as webber or Divac, just saying playing styles. Griffin just is a better player than JT. And Hawes is a different type player.

OK CDT3 let the JT is the greatest thing since Duncan argument continue, just don't get me involved.

So you are complaining that they would be too similar, but here you are saying that Griffin can be a shooter/athlete/defender/rebounder/ball handler: viewtopic.php?f=29&t=904903

Sorry but that's not true. If Griffin is for real the way the workout portrays him, he can play with any good player at the 5. I think they'd be MORE complimentary because they're both good rebounders, Jason is the best post defender out of the 3 big men, will be a better shotblocker than either player, We would be a MORE well rounded team IMO with a frontline of Griffin/Thompson than Griffin/Hawes, because NEITHER Griffin/Hawes are great defenders. With JT atleast you have 1 good defender.