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Jazz <-> Kings Trade Ideas
Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 5:55 pm
by finnegan
Saw the article about Sac considering offers for Martin.
Not sure if the Kings are looking for cap space or equivalent value.
What would fans think of getting Kirelinko for Martin and filler?
Or young and upcoming players like Ronnie Brewer plus picks and cap space?
Kevin Martin would make a lot of sense for the Jazz, since they are trying to advance in the playoffs.
Are there any scenarios that would work?
Re: Jazz <-> Kings Trade Ideas
Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 6:22 pm
by KM44
finnegan wrote:Saw the article about Sac considering offers for Martin.
What would fans think of getting Kirelinko for Martin and filler?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! Oh geez, that is a complete joke. Martin would be traded for Deron Williams IMO. That would be ideal value.
Martin, Sergio and Greene or something...
I don't know, I really don't think these two teams are good trade partners. Oh, and smills, when you see this, PLEASE don't offer him for boozer or something crazy like that.
Re: Jazz <-> Kings Trade Ideas
Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 6:23 pm
by dozencousins
We dont need kirilenko that said i doubt the JAZZ do it but any deal with the JAZZ better start & end with us getting D.williams & i doubt thats happening !
Re: Jazz <-> Kings Trade Ideas
Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 6:29 pm
by Nicky Nix Nook
finnegan wrote:Kevin Martin would make a lot of sense for the Jazz
As he would with any team.
AK47 for K Mart????
That is atrocious on so many levels. WOW.
Re: Jazz <-> Kings Trade Ideas
Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 6:44 pm
by RoyalCourtJestr
AK for Martin makes little sense for the Kings - but hoping the Kings have any shot at a Martin + for Williams is just as foolish.
Re: Jazz <-> Kings Trade Ideas
Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 6:48 pm
by cdt3
The Jazz are also known by the entire league knows they are where Memphis was several years ago with Gasol. Someone has got to go and you will not be getting equal value. Again I don't know why you don't trade Kenny Thomas (exp) plus Nocioni for Kirilenko. Nocioni would be a good fit for Utah is a very solid scorer and interior defender, start at the 3 and backup the 4 or even 5. Kirilenko is a better all around defender at the 3 for the Kings and only has to be paid this season and next. The deal even work financially. I think Noc and an expiring would be for Utah like the Kings did with CWebber in breaking his contract into parts. The Kings actually have enough room to take on AK also for a limited time then Greene and Casspi would be ready to play all the SF mins in 2 years.
Re: Jazz <-> Kings Trade Ideas
Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 7:36 pm
by KingInExile
Number 1, the whole idea of "the Kings considering offers for Martin" is blown way out of proportion. Martin may be expendable, but the Kings are not looking to dump him.
Number 2, deals for Martin going to the Jazz would have to involve either Williams or Millsap, not old has-beens like AK or role players.
Re: Jazz <-> Kings Trade Ideas
Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 8:07 pm
by RoyalCourtJestr
I wouldn't do Martin for Millsap (contract starting point is too big, and Martin is a better player )
Re: Jazz <-> Kings Trade Ideas
Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 8:58 pm
by Bac2Basics
Utah & Sacramento may deal, but it's incredibly unlikely that Kevin Martin is included in one of those deals.
Re: Jazz <-> Kings Trade Ideas
Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 9:00 pm
by KF10
finnegan wrote:Are there any scenarios that would work?
There is no such scenario that Utah brings in Martin without relinquishing Deron Williams. Which Utah wouldn't do. So, it is moot.
Re: Jazz <-> Kings Trade Ideas
Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 11:42 pm
by SacKingZZZ
KingInExile wrote:Number 1, the whole idea of "the Kings considering offers for Martin" is blown way out of proportion. Martin may be expendable, but the Kings are not looking to dump him.
Number 2, deals for Martin going to the Jazz would have to involve either Williams or Millsap, not old has-beens like AK or role players.
Not only that but it was nothing more than complete and utter conjecture by a beat writer putting together a piece in the middle of summer.
There are no rumors, there are no murmurs, just somebody basically saying it could be possible.
As for the deal, Jazz have the Knicks pick right? Probably have to start there in the very least.
Re: Jazz <-> Kings Trade Ideas
Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 10:50 pm
by Smills91
Not even Millsap + has enough claws to nab Martin. It's Deron or bust from the Jazz current roster. Sorry, but if you wanna deal, we can offer Thomas + cap space for Boozer/Fesenko or Beno/Noc/Garcia for AK/Korver/Fesenko otherwise, we're not dealing with Utah.
Re: Jazz <-> Kings Trade Ideas
Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 4:52 am
by finnegan
cdt3 wrote: The Jazz are also known by the entire league knows they are where Memphis was several years ago with Gasol. Someone has got to go and you will not be getting equal value.
Uhhm. I think you got that backwards. The Jazz were in the Western conference finals two years ago, and gave the Lakers a decent run for their money in the playoffs this year despite chronic injuries. The article was about Kevin Martin and not Andre Kirelinko. Your comparison with Gasol and Memphis and fits the profile of Martin with the Kings more than it does with the Jazz.
cdt3 wrote: Again I don't know why you don't trade Kenny Thomas (exp) plus Nocioni for Kirilenko.
Why in the world would the Jazz do that??? They're trying to advance in the playoffs. I think this 10X worse than a Kirelinko for Martin proposal.
I understand why you guys value Martin. He is the best player on your team. Sounds like you guys want to hang on to him, and I can understand why you would want to do that.
Re: Jazz <-> Kings Trade Ideas
Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 5:29 am
by Krimzen
The article contained an unsourced and unsubstantiated rumor that Martin MIGHT BE available. It is very likely just the opinion of the reporter.
The Kings aren't looking to trade Martin right now. Period. It makes no sense on any level because no package we can bring in right now will match his mix of talent and youth. He is on a extremely reasonable deal for a player of his skill and is still relatively young.
Other than the fact that we have cap space and the Jazz need it, our teams don't make good trade partners. Unless there is a multiple team deal, there is really no way to make anything work. Almost any deal involving Martin going out is an automatic no.
Also, people need to realize the Kings don't HAVE to make any moves. We can sit around and look at offers all the way up to the trade deadline for our combo of TPE from capspace, Thomas' expiring, and an overpaid (but useful) Nocioni. Maybe we find some bidders, maybe we don't. That just means more capspace next offseason when we can try to poach a decent (but not top level) FA to go with our lottery pick or look around again for a team still in bad need of a capspace. I don't believe any speculation about the arena deal needing a winner or anything will affect what moves Petrie makes. You don't have to be a winner to have excitement, although it certainly does help. The Blazers had a lot of excitement pretty early on in their rebuild because of all the young talent.
Re: Jazz <-> Kings Trade Ideas
Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 5:46 pm
by rpa
finnegan wrote:What would fans think of getting Kirelinko for Martin and filler?
Kirilenko = negative value
Martin = positive value
What would you say if I offered Beno & Nocioni for Deron Williams?
finnegan wrote:Or young and upcoming players like Ronnie Brewer plus picks and cap space?
Brewer isn't anything special. IMO he's an MLE type player. Provides good defense on the wing & very so-so (at best) offensive skills). He'd work well as an Ariza type roleplayer but the Kings aren't in a position to overpay for Ariza-like role players. Your end-of-the-first picks aren't worth much and the Kings already have cap space; they don't need more at the expense of their best player.
Re: Jazz <-> Kings Trade Ideas
Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 1:16 am
by finnegan
I don't want to be rude but the there are legitimate reasons for trading Kevin Martin, and I'm a little shocked that NO one in your forum is acknowledging it.
1) You may want to acquire high draft picks to build for the future like Portland,
2) You may want to go a different direction than having your best player being a SG,
3) You may want to just start over like Phoenix did before they became one of the best teams in the league,
4) You may want to be strategic and shoot for cap space during an off year like 2011 (that is how the Jazz got Boozer)
5) You may want to save millions during the down cycle for the team during the bad economy and then splurge a little when things come back.
I don't know what your playoff expectations are for the near future, but Sac seems to have a solid front office, and there are clear examples where starting ovabsolutely works. Personally I would never advise a team to tank a season to get high draft picks, but unquestionably there are teams that do it and they do it by trading away their best players.
Plus you could probably get Utah's New York pick which could reasonably be a top three. I havn't followed the Kings drafting pattern at all, but Petrie seems to be a sharp guy.
If you want to keep a top caliber player for the next several years, then you are welcome to it, but your comparisons of bad offers for Deron Williams are not even remotely similar. The Jazz are one of the best teams in the West when they are healthy.
And remeber the Jazz had to go through this when they lost Stockton and Malone. They were able to bounce back with draft picks (Kirelinko, Deron Williams, Milsap) and cap space (Okur and Boozer), they didn't have a single top caliber playerduring that time, and it worked!
Re: Jazz <-> Kings Trade Ideas
Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 1:54 am
by KF10
We are not going to trade Martin to Utah. I'm sorry.
I remember we had a similar scenario in the trade board that Utah gets Martin and filler and we get AK47+NYK pick and filler.
And ALL Kings fans hate it and non-Kings fans agreed with us as well.
The premise is flawed in the first place. We are not going to accept a deal that is a basis of AK47 for Martin mold.
Re: Jazz <-> Kings Trade Ideas
Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 2:09 am
by finnegan
Ok last comment here.
There are scenarios that work. Some better than others for sure!
All I'm saying is that you can use Martin now to get something that might be a better fit or better strategy in the long term.
If some your forum members want to continue proposing ideas like Kevin Martin for Derrick Rose, or Deron Williams -- then all I can say is good luck with that.
On the other hand, maybe some of you want to start thinking about what giving up Martin now, can buy for you in the future.
Re: Jazz <-> Kings Trade Ideas
Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 2:14 am
by KF10
finnegan wrote:Ok last comment here.
There are scenarios that work. Some better than others for sure!
All I'm saying is that you can use Martin now to get something that might be a better fit or better strategy in the long term.
If some your forum members want to continue proposing ideas like Kevin Martin for Derrick Rose, or Deron Williams -- then all I can say is good luck with that.
On the other hand, maybe some of you want to start thinking about what giving up Martin now, can buy for you in the future.
I want to say thank you for your opinions. And you are totally are entitled to them.
But the reason why we "propose" ideas for Williams/Rose because the initial proposal was pretty bad for us. It was more of a sarcastic counter proposal more than anything.
Re: Jazz <-> Kings Trade Ideas
Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 2:32 am
by Smills91
finnegan wrote:Ok last comment here.
There are scenarios that work. Some better than others for sure!
All I'm saying is that you can use Martin now to get something that might be a better fit or better strategy in the long term.
If some your forum members want to continue proposing ideas like Kevin Martin for Derrick Rose, or Deron Williams -- then all I can say is good luck with that.
On the other hand, maybe some of you want to start thinking about what giving up Martin now, can buy for you in the future.
CORRECTION, there is ONE scenario that works that lands Martin in Utah, and his name is Deron Williams [/thread]And you might want to consider what Deron Williams could net you for your franchises future. I'm not opposed to moving Martin, but I'm not moving him for Kirilenko, Millsap, Boozer, or anyone on the Jazz roster not named D-Will. It's that simple.