should Nocioni be benched?

[XeOnagain]

The more i watch the more i'm disgusted with his choker attitude, oh and the bricks he lays on a nightly basis. he chucks up stupid,unnecessary shots which totally kill the team's momentum. His percentages suck of course, but that's not the biggest issue. Like the Miami game where he forced his shot sooooo many times instead of passing, it is clear that this drunk Argentinean thinks he's a better player then many of our Kings. Last year he bithced about the Kings sucking(duh, you idiot, what did you expect from that young team), and this year, he lierally kills our offensive flow. Greene makes the same mistakes, but he's 21, Omri too. I think it's time for Andres "DUI" Nocioni to sit on the bench until his eventual trade. He can get his minutes with the second unit. No reason to have a choker in the starting 5 at age 30, when we have a similar one in Greene.(his god-damn awful shot selection is not like Noce, he's just young). Let him develop. What do you guys think about the Brickmaster Nocioni?

[bjax24]

Do you really need to bring personal stuff like the DUI into this? I guarantee if he had been tearin it up you would not be bringing it up. This is about basketball...

[XeOnagain]

Do you really need to bring personal stuff like the DUI into this? I guarantee if he had been tearin it up you would not be bringing it up. This is about basketball...

it's a big part of the problem. he is a veteran. he SHOULD be the leader. don't try to kiss-ass him and wait for the forum's members' approval like you did a fancy thing. and you still haven't answered the original question..

edit: on second thought, maybe it was not necessary to bring up the DUI, but still, i think it just shows his interest about being a King. he just doesn't give a -beep-

[_SRV_]

I don't understand why he still plays, my only explanation is they're trying to showcase him, which is failing miserably right now.

[bjax24]

If I was kissing ass wouldn't I be bad mouthing him? I haven't seen anyone support him. I just think that something he did off the court has nothing to do with on the court. And to answer the question if he keeps it up hell yeah I would bench him. I dunno what his deal is lately, I always loved his energy and all that but the last few games he hasn't really shown any.l

[RoyalCourtJestr]

Start him long enough to get some contender interested. Then trade him for crap and get him the heck away from Greene and Omir.

[XeOnagain]

Start him long enough to get some contender interested. Then trade him for crap and get him the heck away from Greene and Omir.

yes i agree. but if he becomes the reason for our losses like he is right now, i'd prefer losing with a rookie or sophomore than him. we're 9-12, and if this team falls to territory like 11-20, i'm afraid turning the season around will be impossible. That's golden state territory. i'm not saying we'll make playoffs, but if you dig a hole that deep, especially with a young team like this, worse could follow. so i think we need a new starter at the 3, no matter what happens. i'm sure any alternative in the roster is better than him. he's sucking the enthusiasm out of these young fellas with his god awful chucking.

[Fola314]

Start him long enough to get some contender interested. Then trade him for crap and get him the heck away from Greene and Omir.

yes i agree. but if he becomes the reason for our losses like he is right now, i'd prefer losing with a rookie or sophomore than him. we're 9-12, and if this team falls to territory like 11-20, i'm afraid turning the season around will be impossible. That's golden state territory. i'm not saying we'll make playoffs, but if you dig a hole that deep, especially with a young team like this, worse could follow. so i think we need a new starter at the 3, no matter what happens. i'm sure any alternative in the roster is better than him. he's sucking the enthusiasm out of these young fellas with his god awful chucking.

ehhh wins and losses dont really matter this season IMO. yea we might fall into 11-20 range or something like that, have you seen our schedule for the rest of this month and january? it doesnt get much easier. we are better than last year, the team shows some fight, so what if we wind up 30-52 or whatever.

yes, casspi looks better than noc. if we have to start nocioni in order to trade him, ill accept the losses. while i would rather start someone else, i dont think noc is as bad as you say he is, and i dont think he is sucking the enthusiasm out of the young players. i mean if noc hadnt of missed those free throws in new orleans, i doubt he'd be getting as much criticism as he is right now.

[pillwenney]

yes i agree. but if he becomes the reason for our losses like he is right now, i'd prefer losing with a rookie or sophomore than him. we're 9-12, and if this team falls to territory like 11-20, i'm afraid turning the season around will be impossible. That's golden state territory. i'm not saying we'll make playoffs, but if you dig a hole that deep, especially with a young team like this, worse could follow. so i think we need a new starter at the 3, no matter what happens. i'm sure any alternative in the roster is better than him. he's sucking the enthusiasm out of these young fellas with his god awful chucking.

ehhh wins and losses dont really matter this season IMO. yea we might fall into 11-20 range or something like that, have you seen our schedule for the rest of this month and january? it doesnt get much easier. we are better than last year, the team shows some fight, so what if we wind up 30-52 or whatever.

yes, casspi looks better than noc. if we have to start nocioni in order to trade him, ill accept the losses. while i would rather start someone else, i dont think noc is as bad as you say he is, and i dont think he is sucking the enthusiasm out of the young players. i mean if noc hadnt of missed those free throws in new orleans, i doubt he'd be getting as much criticism as he is right now.

Yeah, agreed. I think that's probably way too extreme.

Noc still is a good stand-still shooter. The problem is that sometimes he thinks it's a good idea to go into isolation, and it never is with him.

Regardless, this is just something we have to plow through. We need to start him and hope his play picks up so that somebody can take him off our hands.

[Smills91]

No he shouldn't be benched, but he SHOULD be traded for big man depth.

Nocioni for Dalembert. Revisit those talks, cut the C's out.

Sixers stay under the LT next year and add a shooter to their roster, Kings get a center to back-up Hawes who can block some shots and rebound(good for match-ups) and shed Noc's final year of his deal.

It only costs the Kings 4 million over the course of the deals, and it frees up 2011 cap space along with making us a more 'competitive' team for two years. We also get a huge expiring contract two years in a row at the deadling(Thomas this year, Dalmebert next year). THis also opens up minutes for Greene, Casspi and Cisco when he comes back in 2-3 months.

[XeOnagain]

@fola314

no, i have no problems with him missing the FTs. but i was literally on the verge of breaking my TV during the Heat game. the -!%**- thinks he's a SCORER, for god's sake. and doesn't want to be here. that's why i want him to sit on the bench. i have no problems with the FTs, anyone could miss them. don't try to make me look like a guy who overreacts to those kinds of things, please.

@smills91

i agree, cause even if Dalembert's contract sucks big time, and even if he continues his lame-ass play with us, he won't need chuck up shots or disrupt the offense , cause he has no offensive game.. i'm all for this one. Noc is a cancer on the offensive end for this team. i agree with you, but will philly?

[_SRV_]

Noc is supposed to be good spot up shooter, he simply isn't this season, most of his misses in the Miami game were spot up shots.

[artest420]

At this point I think I would rather see Martin struggle on defense as the starting 3 then see noc the chucker play anymore.

[Fola314]

@fola314

no, i have no problems with him missing the FTs. but i was literally on the verge of breaking my TV during the Heat game. the -!%**- thinks he's a SCORER, for god's sake. and doesn't want to be here. that's why i want him to sit on the bench. i have no problems with the FTs, anyone could miss them. don't try to make me look like a guy who overreacts to those kinds of things, please.

I didn't say you did, I just said if he had made those FTs and we win that game he wouldn't be getting as much criticism. Noc is averaging 10.5 FGA and 27 MPG. His 3pt % is OK, but his FG% is pretty low (41.2%). Hopefully he will come back towards his career average. I'm not thrilled about the way he has played either, but I don't think of him as a chucker really. I can't point to a game this season and say "Noc is the reason we lost this game."

I think the real question is, what does benching him accomplish? If the answer is maybe a couple more wins, then I don't think its worth it. If the deadline passes and he is still on the team then it becomes more of a concern.

[Dustin5566]

At this point I think I would rather see Martin struggle on defense as the starting 3 then see noc the chucker play anymore.

At this point, I would rather call Argentina and tell them to come get their boy.

[OGSactownballer]

Here's the problem.

Everybody is missing free throws right now. Noc, however, is supposed to be the VETERAN presence on the team and the guy who settles things down. THAT is why I have a problem with him missing those CLUTCH free throws. Adding fuel to the fire is the fact that he completely dumbassed a most basic of plays - intentional miss of a free throw to have a chance to tie the game off a last second shot down two. I mean if you watch how he did it, I don't even think he really understood what he was supposed to do on the SHOT, let alone the bonehead manuver of stepping over the line in violation. Simple study of the lineups in that situation tells you that you have to bang it off the rim to hope to get it to one of your guys on the perimeter. All you have to do is watch how they collapsed down with their biggest players completely ready for a short bouncer.

Also I'm not quite sure what happened after the Miami game, but for some reason he can't seem to hit the broad side of a barn from 12'+. the problem with that is that he sees himself as a shooter and therefore he keeps firing away from range and MUCH to early in the shot clock. This has a dual negative effect of #1 - having long rebounds that start fast breaks the other way and #2 - taking the ball out of the hands of Evans or JT for a drive or post opportunity that is much more likely to be a high percentage shot or earn a trip to the fould line.

My basic here is that I also don't want to bench him just when we are trying to increase his value and showcase his strengths (defense, toughness and hustle). I DO think that Westphal needs to put the brakes on him and make him understand that he WILL see the pine if he doesn't improve his shot selection.

[cuad]

Nocioni hasn't been drinking enough alcohol it would seem.

[darkadun]

I could be stretching here..but I have a theory.

It seems like since his DUI his play has steadly declined & he has started forcing things. I wonder if he is trying to make up for it on the court, trying too hard to play well and erase in people's minds he got a DUI. When he takes shots in the flow of the offense he is a good shooter, but when he tries to drive or get his own shot, his % is way down. It definetly seems like he is trying to hard. Maybe I'm way off, but it was something I was thinking about yesterday.

[Smills91]

I could be stretching here..but I have a theory.

It seems like since his DUI his play has steadly declined & he has started forcing things. I wonder if he is trying to make up for it on the court, trying too hard to play well and erase in people's minds he got a DUI. When he takes shots in the flow of the offense he is a good shooter, but when he tries to drive or get his own shot, his % is way down. It definetly seems like he is trying to hard. Maybe I'm way off, but it was something I was thinking about yesterday.

I think he's been playinf pretty consistent minus this last stretch of 3 games or so where his shot hasn't been dropping. I think it's just that simple. A shooting slump.

[darkadun]

Ya, he is too good a shooter to miss that many shots, but everyone has their slumps.