Start Jon Brockman/Bench Spencer Hawes

tru6playa · Post #1 » by **tru6playa** » Tue Dec 22, 2009 4:59 pm

I think Brockman NEEDS to start give him 5 games to see what he can do. Obviously, there will be some matchup problems given his height. However, the fact that he's constantly making plays can't be overlooked. He makes the other team WORK their a** off for any rebound or loose ball.

I was a huge fan of Hawes - but he's slowly playing his way out of my grace (not that it matters). He just doesn't work hard and it makes me sick. I wish he'd put the same emotion into rebounding and playing defense as he does yelling at the ref after a bad call. Where the hell is that emotion when he's rebounding?

I'm not giving up on Hawes yet, he's too young to do that. But I think he needs to earn every minute...he can learn a lot from Brockman.

_SRV_ · Post #2 » by **_SRV_** » Tue Dec 22, 2009 5:05 pm

When we were in deep **** yesterday I made a comment that PW had no more options, I totally forgot about Brockman, he needs to get more time, especially with our pathetic post defense.

Post #3 » by **KingInExile** » Tue Dec 22, 2009 5:41 pm

Starting Brockman is not the answer. In fact he is much more valuble as a 2nd unit guy who comes in and bangs in the middle. The answer is replace Hawes with a real defensive-minded center.

villatrynity154 · Post #4 » by **villatrynity154** » Tue Dec 22, 2009 5:46 pm

i think brockman needs to play more....but from that to starting....lets not get carried away here...if given more PT brockman delivers then maybe i'll jump on the start brockman bandwagon...but not right now

darkadun · Post #5 » by **darkadun** » Tue Dec 22, 2009 6:49 pm

I gather he was hurt and thats why he was not playing. But I agree we should use him more in certain situations. Love his hustle, and hustle seems to wear off on teamates too when you see someone scraping like that.

Smills91 · Post #6 » by **Smills91** » Tue Dec 22, 2009 6:50 pm

KingInExile wrote:Starting Brockman is not the answer. In fact he is much more valuble as a 2nd unit guy who comes in and bangs in the middle. The answer is replace Hawes with a real defensive-minded center.

The REAL answer is PATIENCE.

Dustin5566 · Post #7 » by **Dustin5566** » Tue Dec 22, 2009 6:54 pm

The Hawes problem is a catch-22.

He does suck right now, but he is not going to get back to form WITHOUT playing time. So I do not understand all the posters who both want him to play better, but be benched at the same time?
Make up your mind!!

I think he needs to start, however, he cannot start the first 7 minutes then not play again till the 4th. NBA players, especailly mid-level calibar, need to get in a rythem of a game to be successful.

We all know that Spence is mentally fragile and the coaching staff needs to find ways to strengthen his confidence. Feed him down low where he can be successful early on or even give him some elbow passing attempts to get some assist. Both would do wonders for his confidence.

tru6playa · Post #8 » by **tru6playa** » Tue Dec 22, 2009 6:55 pm

KingInExile wrote:Starting Brockman is not the answer. In fact he is much more valuble as a 2nd unit guy who comes in and bangs in the middle. The answer is replace Hawes with a real defensive-minded center.

It may not be the long term answer, but it's definitely the short term answer until Hawes realizes he needs to bust his balls on the court like Brockman does or we get that defensive-minded center.

Smills91 · Post #9 » by **Smills91** » Tue Dec 22, 2009 6:57 pm

Dustin5566 wrote:The Hawes problem is a catch-22.

He does suck right now, but he is not going to get back to form WITHOUT playing time. So I do not understand all the posters who both want him to play better, but be benched at the same time?
Make up your mind!!

I think he needs to start, however, he cannot start the first 7 minutes then not play again till the 4th. NBA players, especailly mid-level calibar, need to get in a rythem of a game to be successful.

We all know that Spence is mentally fragile and the coaching staff needs to find ways to strengthen his confidence. Feed him down low where he can be successful early on or even give him some elbow passing attempts to get some assist. Both would do wonders for his confidence.

He's not even 'sucking' that bad, really. He's just playing underwhelming to what we saw last year. I totally think this is some sort of funk/slump he's dealing with and he'll bounce out of it, sooner than later. PATIENCE. With that said, I STILL want another 7 footer on the roster for depth purposes. Okafor is the IDEAL fit to form with both Spence and JT. I'd really like to see that deal happen.

tru6playa · Post #10 » by **tru6playa** » Tue Dec 22, 2009 7:00 pm

villatrynity154 wrote:i think brockman needs to play more....but from that to starting....lets not get carried away here...if given more PT brockman delivers then maybe i'll jump on the start brockman bandwagon...but not right now

I don't get the whole argument that he's a great "bench guy," but not a "starter." If he performs well on the court I don't care if he starts or comes off the bench as long as he's logging more minutes than Hawes. Brockman's contributes in away that doesn't always reflect in the box scores the next morning. It's like he tires out the opponents by making them work their butts off, and by the 4th qtr they are drained. Because they know that they have to box out and fight for every rebound when Brockman is on the court. With Hawes, they can relax...it's almost like Hawes forfeits the offensive rebounds without giving any effort...it allows the opponents to grab the def rebound w/o having to put effort into it.

I'm not giving up on Hawes, but I don't think he should be given minutes w/o him earning them.

tru6playa · Post #11 » by **tru6playa** » Tue Dec 22, 2009 7:06 pm

Dustin5566 wrote:The Hawes problem is a catch-22.

He does suck right now, but he is not going to get back to form WITHOUT playing time. So I do not understand all the posters who both want him to play better, but be benched at the same time?
Make up your mind!!

I think he needs to start, however, he cannot start the first 7 minutes then not play again till the 4th. NBA players, especailly mid-level calibar, need to get in a rythem of a game to be successful.

We all know that Spence is mentally fragile and the coaching staff needs to find ways to strengthen his confidence. Feed him down low where he can be successful early on or even give him some elbow passing attempts to get some assist. Both would do wonders for his confidence.

For me, with Hawes, it's not his ability to score or defend the rim (not the post) -- I believe he has the tools to do both adequately as an NBA starter. It's his ability to give 110-percent effort every minute he logs. He's too easy-going on the court and his effort is not there.

I don't care if he's having a bad day offensively, that doesn't mean he can't contribute in different ways. His problem is he can't contribute if he's not having a good offensive game. He needs to learn how to do the things that don't show up in the box score, but helps your team win nevertheless.

Post #12 » by **Curtis Lemansky** » Tue Dec 22, 2009 7:45 pm

How do you guys see Brockman's potential? I really havent seen much of him. Is he more like a Reggie Evans type of player or can he develop into something more?

Post #13 » by **pillwenney** » Tue Dec 22, 2009 7:55 pm

nostradamus2005 wrote:How do you guys see Brockman's potential? I really havent seen much of him. Is he more like a Reggie Evans type of player or can he develop into something more?

I'd say he's more competent offensively than Evans is. He'll never try to do anything he can't do, and he's a solid finisher around the basket. He's really quite a smart player for a rookie. He completely knows who he is. He's a solid passer as well.

I also don't know if I would necessarily say he's dirty--at least not like Evans is. Like he'll pop a guy in the mouth around the basket, but I couldn't ever see Brock grabbing a guys nuts, so that's a plus.

sacking101 · Post #14 » by **sacking101** » Tue Dec 22, 2009 8:21 pm

Brockman has no offense of game. With that said if he played as much as spencer he would still average more points. He can finish around the basket and he would get 2nd chance point for himself or kick it back out. I would have no problem with him playing more then spencer. I know all you guys think that hawes needs time to develop but he is not a future allstar or even a guy that can be our center for the future IMO. He plays no defense and his offense really is not even close of what I admit I expected it to be when we drafted him. I dont think brockman is the answer but he definitely contributes more then spencer.

Website · Post #15 » by **Nicky Nix Nook** » Tue Dec 22, 2009 9:30 pm

Well Brockman doesn't necessarily have an offensive skillset, but he still has a very decent mid range jumper which he does not really use. He knows his role and he plays it--well. Maybe down the road he'll look for his shot more, but that's not really what he's in there to do. I'd take Brockman in a fight over anyone on our roster. You have to see this guy in real life to fully appreciate the physical specimen he is. Also he has a very underrated vertical. I don't know what it was when he came in, but at 6'8 he jumps a lot of heads. I also like how he comes in and roughs guys up on defense. He doesn't like to allow layups ala KG. He will lay you out, and I love that.

I remember vs. Houston, Scola was owning us inside, Brockman was subbed in, and the first thing he did was go and give Scola a forearm shiver in the back, just to let him know--Jon Brockman has checked in.

Post #16 » by **ICMTM** » Tue Dec 22, 2009 10:44 pm

Smills91 wrote:
KingInExile wrote:Starting Brockman is not the answer. In fact he is much more valuble as a 2nd unit guy who comes in and bangs in the middle. The answer is replace Hawes with a real defensive-minded center.

The REAL answer is PATIENCE.

The real ANSWER says it's PRACTICE! We're talking about PRACTICE. He didn't put in the work this offseason and it is showing. He's not the most gifted athlete so unless he works at his game he will continue to under perform.

khoffman3113 · Post #17 » by **khoffman3113** » Tue Dec 22, 2009 11:35 pm

Nicky Nix Nook wrote:Well Brockman doesn't necessarily have an offensive skillset, but he still has a very decent mid range jumper which he does not really use. He knows his role and he plays it--well. Maybe down the road he'll look for his shot more, but that's not really what he's in there to do. I'd take Brockman in a fight over anyone on our roster. You have to see this guy in real life to fully appreciate the physical specimen he is. Also he has a very underrated vertical. I don't know what it was when he came in, but at 6'8 he jumps a lot of heads. I also like how he comes in and roughs guys up on defense. He doesn't like to allow layups ala KG. He will lay you out, and I love that.

I remember vs. Houston, Scola was owning us inside, Brockman was subbed in, and the first thing he did was go and give Scola a forearm shiver in the back, just to let him know--Jon Brockman has checked in.

I think a fight between Casspi and Brockman could be entertaining

Smills91 · Post #18 » by **Smills91** » Tue Dec 22, 2009 11:58 pm

ICMTM wrote:
Smills91 wrote:
KingInExile wrote:Starting Brockman is not the answer. In fact he is much more valuble as a 2nd unit guy who comes in and bangs in the middle. The answer is replace Hawes with a real defensive-minded center.

The REAL answer is PATIENCE.

The real ANSWER says it's PRACTICE! We're talking about PRACTICE. He didn't put in the work this offseason and it is showing. He's not the most gifted athlete so unless he works at his game he will continue to under perform.

Well according to Jon Brockman(who I would view as a reliable source considering the way he plays) he worked out with Spencer and commented on how much work Hawes put into this off-season. To extrapolate the summer league as the ONLY work he could've put in this summer is not only dishonest, it's completely inaccurate. Could it have helped, SURE. But is it the REASON he's struggling, absolutely not. Those 5-6 games are NOT the difference in his play this season, there's a bigger issue at hand and it's NOT about the work he did or didn't put in this summer. As he DID put in a LOT of work as Jon Brockman says. I

Smills91 · Post #19 » by **Smills91** » Tue Dec 22, 2009 11:59 pm

khoffman3113 wrote:
Nicky Nix Nook wrote:Well Brockman doesn't necessarily have an offensive skillset, but he still has a very decent mid range jumper which he does not really use. He knows his role and he plays it--well. Maybe down the road he'll look for his shot more, but that's not really what he's in there to do. I'd take Brockman in a fight over anyone on our roster. You have to see this guy in real life to fully appreciate the physical specimen he is. Also he has a very underrated vertical. I don't know what it was when he came in, but at 6'8 he jumps a lot of heads. I also like how he comes in and roughs guys up on defense. He doesn't like to allow layups ala KG. He will lay you out, and I love that.

I remember vs. Houston, Scola was owning us inside, Brockman was subbed in, and the first thing he did was go and give Scola a forearm shiver in the back, just to let him know--Jon Brockman has checked in.

I think a fight between Casspi and Brockman could be entertaining

Omri would get bRocked! love his tenacity, but there's just no way he could survive the Brockness Monster. In fact, I'd say Jon could take on about 99% of the league if needs be and win.

a-rod · Post #20 » by **a-rod** » Wed Dec 23, 2009 12:01 am

Smills91 wrote:
KingInExile wrote:Starting Brockman is not the answer. In fact he is much more valuble as a 2nd unit guy who comes in and bangs in the middle. The answer is replace Hawes with a real defensive-minded center.

The REAL answer is PATIENCE.

True, but next season is the last year of his rookie contract, so The GM needs to know what he can do, so He can decide how to use cap space and draft picks to fill the holes...

ICMTM wrote:The real ANSWER says it's PRACTICE! We're talking about PRACTICE. He didn't put in the work this offseason and it is showing. He's not the most gifted athlete so unless he works at his game he will continue to under perform.

Agreed, Hawes underwent microfracture surgery on the knee several years ago, so he needs to improve his defensive game as well as work ethic and attitude to be successful pro...