Roles

[ICMTM]

I see the biggest issue with this team being that who really knows what their role is?

Beno and Tyreke in the backcourt is the best fit for the players we have. They have similar skill sets in what they want to do as well. If Tyreke is going to play a guard position the other guard position has to be able to distribute. If this means that Beno is the PG and Reke is the SG so be it. Beno and Reke are both combo guards however that are complimentary to each other.

Kevin Martin would do better coming off the bench. He has a scorer mentality. He's not willing to play off the ball and he is a sub average defender. Let him come off the bench.

What position does Donte Greene play? He's been playing some one lately and it looks like a hot mess! He's played everything BUT the 5.

How do you maximize Spencer Hawes' ability? It seems like the coaches need to incorporate him into the game plan. I don't know if this tough love thing is working.

Let JT be JT. 15/10 on 10 touches. Don't sweat the technique.

Best lineup:

Reke/Garcia
Udrih/Martin
Casspi/Greene/Nocioni
Thompson/Nocioni/Brockman
Hawes/Brockman

It seems like Hawes has shown some flashes of good play recently and then the team goes away from him.

Last thing...does anyone smell a tank job? I'm sorry but we were playing some good basketball at the beginning of the season, and the way we are playing now from just a configuration standpoint makes no sense. Everyone knows to beat Phoenix you slow it down and run your offense through the paint. I was really shocked to see that we tried to out jump shoot the Suns last night. The game plans lately have been like WTF. Yeah we are a young team and we're supposed to make young mistakes. Out there we looked lost from the opening tip.

[Nicky Nix Nook]

I agree with the starting 5 but maybe start Donte. I think he does better starting, and Casspi does just fine off the bench. I was one of the first advocates of bringing Martin off the bench, and I think it needs to be done. However, I don't know if Martin's ego could take it (ironic because we always said he needed a little more swagger). But Martin should look at guys like Ginobli and see that it is a very respectable role.

Hawes and Evans need to carpool, hang out, room together, and develop some chemistry. Right now Evans and Hawes just don't have the same chemistry as Evans/Thompson or Evans/Greene. Hawes is very effective when you let him be a main part of the offense. But it needs to be a priority to get him involved.

I could REALLY see Martin flourishing off the bench

[KF10]

I don't see how Martin coming off the bench would be any better. The main problem with him is that he is still on his slump. This isn't the Kevin we acustom to see. This leads to perceptions that may not be accurate. I still believe once Kevin gets back in track, the duo between him and Tyreke will flourish.

But assuming if the pairing does not mesh well to our expectations, will Martin get consistent minutes if he was coming off the bench? Maybe Martin can excel from the bench. I don't know.

[ICMTM]

Kevin's struggles aside he didn't mesh well with Udrih either last year. Think about it though when Kevin scores 30+ points on 20 shots it seems good but he's taking a quarter of the shots our team takes. They aren't assisted baskets so that really means Kevin is working all by himself to score. That type of player is better suited for a bench role. Reke and Beno play better together. Not because of Kevin's "faults" but Udrih and Evans have a good handle. The offense is more dynamic as there is more movement off the ball with there two.

[pillwenney]

I think Kevin is entirely willing to score off the ball. He just doesn't really know how to do it with the current guys. That's kind of the tricky thing about playing with a very mobile PG like Tyreke. It can be kind of hard to really conventionally move off the ball with the passer moving with the ball. I'm certainly not blaming Tyreke for doing that--that's (in a very simplistic way) what makes him so good. But it's understandable that it could take some time to figure out how that's going to work. I mean just look at who Reggie Miller played with for a chunk of his career--Mark Jackson--perhaps the most stationary PG I've ever seen.

Anyway, I'm not against the idea of at least trying to bring him off the bench--just to see how it works. I agree that Beno and Reke are a terrific fit together. If Kevin doesn't like that, THEN I'll feel comfortable telling him to piss off.

I think Donte is fine the way he is. I think his career will be marked by his versatility offensively and defensively.

Ultimately, I think this team will succeed with the success of Spencer, Kevin and Tyreke learning to play together.

[dozencousins]

I was at the game last night D.GREEN was basically the only KING who had a very solid game .
TYREKE likely would have had a better game had he not had 3 foul on him before the 1st quartes end !

I personally like the starting line up of

pg = TYREKE
sg = DONTE
sf = CASSPI
pf = J.THOMPSON
C = HAWES or BROCKMAN

I think the idea of having K-MART & BENO off the bench is better at least for as long as they are a KING .
Donte is a great defender as well as a great scorer

I will say my son got too high five the KINGS players on the court yesterday "wow was he excited " i was standing behind te kings bench with my brother just before the game & got a couple of pictures of him getting high fived as well as my nephew. Alot of the players look far bigger in person than on t.v. I realize thats to be expected but considering i never attempted to be on the court or around it was really great . Just before the game one of the balls came to my son DONTE put his hands out & said here you go my son tossed him the ball DONTE turned around on the court after telling him thankyou & hit a 3 pointer my son got an assist !

Anyways we all know the trade deadline is coming up so we will get a bit of a better idea who we should truly start & whom should come off the bench .
Maybe its just me but as far as back up point guards go i like SERGIO alot better than BENO !
SERGIO always seems to give a great spark when he is in , he hustles (always ) great shooter a bit of a better defender than BENO & finally i like the fact his contract is so cheap in comparison to BENO'S .

[longfellow44]

I'm starting to think that hawes is more ofna pf than anything. I think that we need to draft cousins and start him with hawes and bring Thompson off the bench. Also we really should move Martin into a 6th man role and start beno Evans needs to work with another combo guard to be most effective. Then I see casspi starting with Greene being the main back up. Unfortunately this leaves nocioni and Garcia without any significant role on the team so we should look to trade them.

My rotation
udrih 33/Evans 10/ Sergio 5
Evans 25/ martin 23
Casspi 25/ Greene 23
hawes 20/ Thompson 23/ brockman 5
cousins 30/ hawes 13/ Thompson 5

[_SRV_]

I loved the Beno/Reke combo, and I think it's the way to go, Martin can come off the bench, Casspi also played well with this backcourt, a bench of Martin, Redriguiz and Greene, Noc and Bock would be great also.
Instead of using Kevin Martin being back to our advantage we are forcing the team to adjust to his comeback, while failing miserably at it. I guess we can afford given the stacked west and the 0 chance of competing, but 1. it doesn't look pretty, 2. more importantly we are killing some trade values here, Beno and Martin don't look so hot now.

[SacKingZZZ]

I see the biggest issue with this team being that who really knows what their role is?

Beno and Tyreke in the backcourt is the best fit for the players we have. They have similar skill sets in what they want to do as well. If Tyreke is going to play a guard position the other guard position has to be able to distribute. If this means that Beno is the PG and Reke is the SG so be it. Beno and Reke are both combo guards however that are complimentary to each other.

Kevin Martin would do better coming off the bench. He has a scorer mentality. He's not willing to play off the ball and he is a sub average defender. Let him come off the bench.

What position does Donte Greene play? He's been playing some one lately and it looks like a hot mess! He's played everything BUT the 5.

How do you maximize Spencer Hawes' ability? It seems like the coaches need to incorporate him into the game plan. I don't know if this tough love thing is working.

Let JT be JT. 15/10 on 10 touches. Don't sweat the technique.

Best lineup:

Reke/Garcia
Udrih/Martin
Casspi/Greene/Nocioni
Thompson/Nocioni/Brockman
Hawes/Brockman

It seems like Hawes has shown some flashes of good play recently and then the team goes away from him.

Last thing...does anyone smell a tank job? I'm sorry but we were playing some good basketball at the beginning of the season, and the way we are playing now from just a configuration standpoint makes no sense. Everyone knows to beat Phoenix you slow it down and run your offense through the paint. I was really shocked to see that we tried to out jump shoot the Suns last night. The game plans lately have been like WTF. Yeah we are a young team and we're supposed to make young mistakes. Out there we looked lost from the opening tip.

Easy, you run pick and pop plays with him as a 2nd option. Right now this team has no structured offense besides Reke charging into the paint and kicking it out (which is a good No. 1 BTW!!!). You also give it to him at the high post and backscreen like crazy. I don't know how many awesome passes have been fumbled from both he and Tyreke the last couple of games.

You can't expect Spencer to have a major impact on the game by giving him 4-6 shot attempts a game. If your looking for a rebounding/shotblocking role player look elsewhere. If Kevin is moved he should be getting at least the 3rd most shot attempts EVERY night. Reke really needs to look towards the middle of the paint off the pick and roll, he's losing a good 3 apg per game because of that.

I've said it before and will again, the most complimentary frontcourt this team can put out there right now is Brockman/Hawes with Brockman/Thompson an OK substitute. The idea that JT and Hawes could do a lot of the same things Webber/Vlade did might be correct, but they aren't going to be allowed to do it any time soon because of the players we have around them and because the new face of this franchise wouldn't be effective in that style anyway. When Cisco gets back I'd put this lineup out there:

PG: Reke
SG: Martin
SF: Cisco
PF: Brockman
C: Hawes.

In free agency I think going after Carlos Boozer as a long term running mate for Tyreke could really work. Loading up on defensive role players to put around them could really work IMO.

Make a move to clear some more salary and pick up a compliment, Kevin Martin/KT/Noc for TMac/Shane Battier. Draft Aldrich or Cousins:

PG: Reke/Beno
SG: Cisco/Greene
SF: Battier/Casspi
PF: Boozer/Thompson/Brockman
C: Hawes/Aldrich

That team is a contender. That wing trio would be one of the best defensive groups in the NBA. All the players around Reke can spot shoot, Boozer is a legit post option, Cisco can help in the ball handling department playing somewhat of a Doug Christie type role. Toughness and interior D with Brockman and Aldrich, energy and rebounding with JT, what doesn't this team have!?

[Joseph17]

Whenever he comes off the bench he plays extremely well. I remember the game against the Mavs when he came off the bench and that was one of the best games of his career. He would be good off the bench as long as he gets starter minutes.

[Silver Man]

With the roster we have right now, I'd like the starting line-up to be Tyreke Evans, Donte Greene, Omri Casspi, Jason Thompson, and Spencer Hawes. Beno and Martin for now would be better off of the bench than as starters.

PG: Reke/Beno
SG: Cisco/Greene
SF: Battier/Casspi
PF: Boozer/Thompson/Brockman
C: Hawes/Aldrich

You honestly think we have a chance of getting Boozer? Anyways also I would really be happy if we went out and got Cole Aldrich with our pick. The trade idea isn't bad though.

[pillwenney]

I see the biggest issue with this team being that who really knows what their role is?

Beno and Tyreke in the backcourt is the best fit for the players we have. They have similar skill sets in what they want to do as well. If Tyreke is going to play a guard position the other guard position has to be able to distribute. If this means that Beno is the PG and Reke is the SG so be it. Beno and Reke are both combo guards however that are complimentary to each other.

Kevin Martin would do better coming off the bench. He has a scorer mentality. He's not willing to play off the ball and he is a sub average defender. Let him come off the bench.

What position does Donte Greene play? He's been playing some one lately and it looks like a hot mess! He's played everything BUT the 5.

How do you maximize Spencer Hawes' ability? It seems like the coaches need to incorporate him into the game plan. I don't know if this tough love thing is working.

Let JT be JT. 15/10 on 10 touches. Don't sweat the technique.

Best lineup:

Reke/Garcia
Udrih/Martin
Casspi/Greene/Nocioni
Thompson/Nocioni/Brockman
Hawes/Brockman

It seems like Hawes has shown some flashes of good play recently and then the team goes away from him.

Last thing...does anyone smell a tank job? I'm sorry but we were playing some good basketball at the beginning of the season, and the way we are playing now from just a configuration standpoint makes no sense. Everyone knows to beat Phoenix you slow it down and run your offense through the paint. I was really shocked to see that we tried to out jump shoot the Suns last night. The game plans lately have been like WTF. Yeah we are a young team and we're supposed to make young mistakes. Out there we looked lost from the opening tip.

Easy, you run pick and pop plays with him as a 2nd option. Right now this team has no structured offense besides Reke charging into the paint and kicking it out (which is a good No. 1 BTW!!!). You also give it to him at the high post and backscreen like crazy. I don't know how many awesome passes have been fumbled from both he and Tyreke the last couple of games.

You can't expect Spencer to have a major impact on the game by giving him 4-6 shot attempts a game. If your looking for a rebounding/shotblocking role player look elsewhere. If Kevin is moved he should be getting at least the 3rd most shot attempts EVERY night. Reke really needs to look towards the middle of the paint off the pick and roll, he's losing a good 3 apg per game because of that.

I've said it before and will again, the most complimentary frontcourt this team can put out there right now is Brockman/Hawes with Brockman/Thompson an OK substitute. The idea that JT and Hawes could do a lot of the same things Webber/Vlade did might be correct, but they aren't going to be allowed to do it any time soon because of the players we have around them and because the new face of this franchise wouldn't be effective in that style anyway. When Cisco gets back I'd put this lineup out there:

PG: Reke
SG: Martin
SF: Cisco
PF: Brockman
C: Hawes.

In free agency I think going after Carlos Boozer as a long term running mate for Tyreke could really work. Loading up on defensive role players to put around them could really work IMO.

Make a move to clear some more salary and pick up a compliment, Kevin Martin/KT/Noc for TMac/Shane Battier. Draft Aldrich or Cousins:

PG: Reke/Beno
SG: Cisco/Greene
SF: Battier/Casspi
PF: Boozer/Thompson/Brockman
C: Hawes/Aldrich

That team is a contender. That wing trio would be one of the best defensive groups in the NBA. All the players around Reke can spot shoot, Boozer is a legit post option, Cisco can help in the ball handling department playing somewhat of a Doug Christie type role. Toughness and interior D with Brockman and Aldrich, energy and rebounding with JT, what doesn't this team have!?

I'm fine with everything except for Hawes starting over Aldrich. No matter how you slice it, I think you need that defensive presence starting. No amount of perimeter D can take away the need to consistently have an interior defensive presence inside--not in today's NBA. I'm fine with going after Boozer, but if we do, I think we need to start looking at moving Hawes and/or JT unless something else is figured out.

[SacKingZZZ]

I don't know, that Okur/Boozer frontline has worked out pretty well in the past and I'd say Spencer has way more potential as a defender than Okur. I think that unit would jump on teams right out of the gate and as the game slows down you bring in guys like Aldrich. Of course the possibility is there that Hawes comes in off the bench for scoring purposes and Aldrich starts. I see Aldrich as a 25 mpg type of player, one that's extremely productive mind you, but one that you'll want to use all of his fouls and do to lack of overall conditioning won't be an iron man by any stretch.

[pillwenney]

I don't know, that Okur/Boozer frontline has worked out pretty well in the past and I'd say Spencer has way more potential as a defender than Okur. I think that unit would jump on teams right out of the gate and as the game slows down you bring in guys like Aldrich. Of course the possibility is there that Hawes comes in off the bench for scoring purposes and Aldrich starts. I see Aldrich as a 25 mpg type of player, one that's extremely productive mind you, but one that you'll want to use all of his fouls and do to lack of overall conditioning won't be an iron man by any stretch.

You can be good team without an interior defensive presence. But I guaranteed the Jazz won't ever win a ring with that starting frontline, and it will be precisely for that reason. "Pretty well" doesn't cut it.

[longfellow44]

I'm all for trying to get Aldrich or Cousins in this coming draft either one will greatly improve our team and it will be much easier to fit our roster into roles when we get a few pieces set into specific roles.

What we need to know
Is Casspi our starter long term at SF?
Is Greene a potential starter at SG or will he be a starting SF?
If Greene is going to start at SF what does Casspi's role become?
What are we going to do with martin?
What is the future of our Front line?
Is Hawes a center? (I think he may be a PF)
Are we going to play Evans at PG or should we find another combo guard and play them together?
Does Garcia have a role on this team?
Can we trade Nocioni?
Will we get a center in the draft?

I think we really need to start answering these question before the trade deadline there is currently just too much in flux with the kings. We need to figure out exactly what our goals are before we go into the draft so that next season we come into the year with a clear rotation and a clear game plan so that nobody has to question their role on the team.

[SacKingZZZ]

I don't like Donte at SG. If we're going for mismatches he's clearly more dangerous at PF.

[cdt3]

Zero wins without Thompson. Donte Greene and Hawes TOGETHER avgd less than 10 rebounds per game at the 4/5 in the past 2 games. Thompson avgs 9 per night.

You CANNOT win in the NBA when you don't rebound.

FACT: The Kings were near .500 until Whobbly Westphal started messing with the Thompson/Hawes frontline.

Thompson just does too much positive (defense, rebounding, shot blocking plus scoring) to not play in crunchtime even if he is not scoring. Why do you think Michael Jordan and Larry Brown (North Carolina types) want the guy?

The better of Greene or Casspi should be the 3 in crunch time. Thompson should always be at the 4. Hawes late at the 5, Brockman if we need late defense. Evans at the 1. Martin or Beno or even Udoka at the 2 depending on if we need offense or defense.

That team is unstoppable on both sides of the ball in crunchtime. Yes Thompson/Hawes need to be better more often in the paint but that will come with time. Vlade and Webber both were in the league 6+ years before they even started together plus took 3-5 after that to become dominant TOGETHER. It takes time.

[ICMTM]

Donte Greene should never have come out of college. While his upside is there he's so dang raw! Anyhow I agree with you cdt3 the frontline is Hawes/Thompson.

[Royal Zephyrus]

Longtime follower, first time poster...had to chime in on this one. I think you're neglecting the positive impact that Sergio has had on this team while on the floor. He's got one of the higher PER's and also a very positive +/- rating over the course of the season. I think this does make Beno expendable if you can retain Sergio on the cheap. He's an ideal back-up PG and would actually complement Martin well if you were to bring him off of the bench. I actually like the idea of Martin playing 30+ minutes a night off the bench. He's got the change of pace quickness, shooting and ability to get to the line to make that happen, a la Ginobili/Terry for SA and Dal.

[ICMTM]

Sergio is good off the bench. He does not make Beno expandable.